There are a number of good body kits out there for locomotives that are poorly represented in the market, or are difficult to find. However, what keeps me from buying them is that I don't know where to source the "rest" of the locomotive - the chassis, motor, and wheels/bogies.
Some manufacturers explicitly reference certain models to convert, but those are often as rare and expensive as some models I'd like to buy, but simply can't find. I'd also feel somewhat guilty purchasing models only to pull them apart - if I'm struggling to find the models I want because of their rarity, it seems counter-intuitive to grab models that others will want and pull them apart! Are there good sources of parts to build locomotives from - either spares for commercial types, or others who sell loco chassis, motors, and so on for use with kits?
For others (e.g. Worsley Works), there's no guidance on the site at all - does one need an encyclopaedic knowledge of available chassis lengths, etc., for commercial models, so you can source suitable parts?
For N Gauge there never has been the suppliers of motors, wheels, gears etc that exist in other scales. Until recently almost all kits were "adjusted" to make use of an available R-T-R chassis (in some cases adjusted so much, the only positive you say was it had the right number of wheels!)
There are motors and gears from the 2mm Society, but the Finescale wheels are generally unsuitable for N gauge track. In Poole days, Farish would sell you a complete chassis without body, but even that is no longer available, and spares are few are far between, mostly coming off scrapped locos.
The first thing to say is that if you don't know what chassis to use with what particular body kit, then a good number of us on here can help.
Some manufacturers design for the chassis they have in mind. These are the most useful for the modeller but the resulting models are not necessarily correct to scale, or even a decent chassis.
As an example or two:
Parkwood Models (trading on EBay as Woodpark88) do a number of resin diesels. Resin is much maligned as I for one find it an easier medium to work with than 3D printed materials.
Their products include their early designs like the Ivatt 10800 prototype, class 15 and class 16 with bodies made to fit the old Poole Farish or early China class 20 chassis - not the new DCC ready one - these have all been stretched a little to fit, but the chassis is rock solid.
There is also an ex LMS Jackshaft shunter for the Minitrix V60 chassis which makes up into a superb model.
The newer Parkwood shunters - Hudswell Clarke dock shunter on 03/04 chassis; ex SR, ex GWR, ex LNER and ex LMS prototype shunters for the new Farish 08 chassis - fabulous models.
Etched Pixels do a number of railbuses and shunters/diesels, and they also specify what chassis are suitable.
AEM have moved from resin to 3D printing of diesels etc, also on standard Farish chassis.
Langley are selling >30 year old whitemetal kits designed for chassis that are not so readily available, but you can pick them up secondhand. These locos are usually stretched a little to fit and you will find the driving wheel diameters of the steam locos possibly too small. Avoid any kits that ask for a Lifelike chassis as these were rubbish even at the time.
BH Enterprises also produce models of different ease of construction and different chassis types are also usually specified.
The biggest problems are with some of the 3D printed models on Shapeways. Rue D'etropal / Recreation 21 is prolific but the models are to scale and not specifically designed to take an existing chassis, so you have to know what you are doing. I've destroyed at least one 3D print trying to get a chassis to fit. And some models just dont fit any suitable chassis.
Having said that, I have a 3D printed Bulleid Leader class and all the parts are available. Not the chassis I would have chosen, but if you use the chassis the loco is designed for, it will all go together with no issues. It's the best 3D printed kit I've ever made.
There are many manufacturers that make the other bits you will need after you've bought a chassis and a "body", because you will inevitably need some other bits to finish the model off.
You can get these from the following, in no particular order:
BH Enterprises
Etched Pixels/Ultima Models
N Brass Locos
Its been a long post but I hope that this gives you the enthusiasm to ask and then to search out what you need. I'm sure I've forgotten one or two cottage industry suppliers and for that i'm sorry. It's difficult to give a complete answer when there is a moving feast of manufacturers out there. Worsley Works are probably for the advanced modeller - as they are sold as scratch aids rather than kits, but i find that almost every kit is not like an Airfix kit - where you have all the parts you need. Most kits are really just the start of a journey.
Best
Bob
I've asked before how some of our more skilled loco builders seem to have a bottomless supply of parts and the answer seems to be they just collect anything which may be useful over years.
Chassis wise I'd venture the bulk come from 'cheap' non runners or NQP sales (Not Quite Perfect) but you have to know what you're doing with them. I'm one of those who can easily pull something apart. It's the fixing it and putting it back together correctly that's the problem! Therefore I have to rely on a RTR item or commission someone to build what I'm after but I'm not proud and am happy to own someone else's creation.
You are right - some are truly prolific.
Some - and I include myself - collect kits of what we want and then watch them rot in our gloat boxes, confident in the fact that we won't ever get them to look as good as an RTR model.
But I've corrected my behaviour this year and managed to make time between contracts to actually make some models.
If you've been modelling for 50 years, you do have boxes of this and that.
Only yesterday I found the clip that goes into an old Farish Poole Power Bogie and secures an old fashioned (sprung, not NEM) rapido coupling to it (minus the spring of course).
And earlier in lockdown I managed to source for someone on the NGS helpline ALL the couplings I had that he could replace the couplings on his period SDJR coaches. They were the hideous half-rapido design that Farish invented in the early 80s to avoid paying royalties to Arnold. They never worked and he was irritated beyond belief and about to give up on N gauge. He was able to replace them with their earlier design that incorporated a U shape in the coupling itself. The replacements were still not brilliant, but they did make him a happy bunny, and I wasn't going to need them, after 40 years, was I???
Best regards
Bob
Over the past year I've designed several unavailable loco body-shells for 3D printing, but the designs all began with a chassis I already had, and dimensions have been tweaked (as little as possible) to fit the chassis I had in mind.
I'm also bemused by the often fabulously authentic designs offered by some on Shapeways, but who offer no guidance on finishing a model, nor give any indication they've ever printed one for themselves. It doesn't exactly build confidence in 3D printing compared to longer-established kit media.
Mike
With my N-Train kits, I took the approach of compromise. My body kits sit comfortably on Tomytec chassis, which are not 100% accurate due to wrong bogie wheelbase, but are , generally, good runners. Also, by attaching a 'correct' bogie sideframe, you hide most of the wheels anyway.
Having said that, quite a few of my kits are running on Farish Class 150 chassis.
Over the years, I have tried with several manufacturers, to use their existing basic gear train in a UK specific chassis block, which I could have done as a kit. My problem has always been getting a suitable 'gearbox'. You do not seem to be able to buy these gears off the shelf, so to speak. Every company I contact wants to make new moulds specific to my needs.
Within the space of ½ an hour this morning I read Dr Al's post on mods to the UM City of Truro where he mentioned changing the tender wheels to Peco Collett ones, and someone else going for a Southern Z class just happening to have a spare Farish 8F chassis. It just blows my mind how some have the light bulb moment on seeing such things to think "they'll come in useful someday".
All I do is fill my little bungalow up with :poop: packaging I think might glaze a couple of buildings and stuff like that ::) :-[
Quote from: Bob G on July 19, 2020, 02:44:28 PM
AEM have moved from resin to 3D printing of diesels etc, also on standard Farish chassis.
Best
Bob
Just a quicky ref this - I was working with AEM to plug some of the gaps in their range with new 3d prints in my range, subsequently AEM have re-emerged as "Leicester N Gauge Locomotive kits" and as far as i am aware they can no longer offer finished models so the link between AEM and CMAC has drifted apart. The CMAC range is generally designed around a specific chassis - 73/9 uses a dapol 73, LMS 10000 uses a Farish 37, 87/90 use respective farish chassis (there is also an option to use a Dapol 86 for the 87), EM1s use a Minitrix 27 chassis, EM2 should fit a Farish 31.
Units are where is can become a bit more tricky, some are straight swaps again like the 158, and most but not all use a Farish 170 as a base. Where I have had issues are with my SBB EMUs, they come in weird and wonderful lengths that often don't match anything else!
Quote from: Newportnobby on July 20, 2020, 10:18:33 AM
Within the space of ½ an hour this morning I read Dr Al's post on mods to the UM City of Truro where he mentioned changing the tender wheels to Peco Collett ones, and someone else going for a Southern Z class just happening to have a spare Farish 8F chassis. It just blows my mind how some have the light bulb moment on seeing such things to think "they'll come in useful someday".
All I do is fill my little bungalow up with :poop: packaging I think might glaze a couple of buildings and stuff like that ::) :-[
I must admit I started speculatively acquiring Japanese bits and pieces for the bits'n'pieces drawer, and from time to time the stash proves very useful when needing to repair something, particularly cheap 2nd hand stock.
Quote from: m0rris on July 20, 2020, 01:54:56 PM
Quote from: Bob G on July 19, 2020, 02:44:28 PM
AEM have moved from resin to 3D printing of diesels etc, also on standard Farish chassis.
Best
Bob
Just a quicky ref this - I was working with AEM to plug some of the gaps in their range with new 3d prints in my range, subsequently AEM have re-emerged as "Leicester N Gauge Locomotive kits" and as far as i am aware they can no longer offer finished models so the link between AEM and CMAC has drifted apart. The CMAC range is generally designed around a specific chassis - 73/9 uses a dapol 73, LMS 10000 uses a Farish 37, 87/90 use respective farish chassis (there is also an option to use a Dapol 86 for the 87), EM1s use a Minitrix 27 chassis, EM2 should fit a Farish 31.
Units are where is can become a bit more tricky, some are straight swaps again like the 158, and most but not all use a Farish 170 as a base. Where I have had issues are with my SBB EMUs, they come in weird and wonderful lengths that often don't match anything else!
That's really useful to know.
I did in fact know about "Leicester Modeller's" (with the greengrocer's apostrophe) but not their latest name.
TBH I stopped following them when they couldn't supply a small resin part for a kit that I had lost, because they had gone over to 3D printing of it.
And I'm not a fan of Facebook generally or their site on Facebook.
It would be good to know what you do, as the cottage industry world is a fast changing one. Are all your products on Shapeways under CMAC Models?
Best regards
Bob
Hi Bob,
Not a problem, as you say, the cottage industry world is a very fastmoving world and it can be hard to keep track of where certain products end up. All my models come up on the CMAC Shop here https://www.shapeways.com/shops/cmacmodels (https://www.shapeways.com/shops/cmacmodels). There's not many rules to my range other than the primary focus is models that interest me and suite my British and Swiss collections, at some stage I need to have a reckoning and focus on getting products off my workbench and onto the rails rather than adding products to my shop. In general though, my range is a lot of the "missing" British EMUs and DMUs (most of the others were covered by BigP but unfortunately his range has disappeared without a trace), then there is a sprinkling of locos (as listed in my earlier post), cars, buses and some continental kit.
I have a hit list of remaining projects which is gradually being whittled down, I am planning to get a 71/74 done as my next big project and then onto some more early AC locos to complement the 87s/90s.
The shapeways price rises haven't done much for my sales and I am currently supplying a load of 00 gauge bodyshells of 387s, 175s etc to try and cover some of the costs of the range which is proving to be a neccessary distraction!
Thanks
Charlie
Well you will keep me happy with the 71/74 and you will keep a lot of other folk happy with classes 81 - 85.
Keep at it.
Bob
Well I have had EM1s EM2s and Tommy from Charlie, Gideon painted one shell for me (EM2) which sits on a Farish 31 chassis,Dr Al is producing/ finished another EM2 for me on a modified Farish chassis, the EM1/Tommy sit on a Minitrix 27 chassis, I believe they needed a little bit of work to get them to sit low enough but Im delighted.In fact really tempted to aquire another EM1.....and a 71/74 sounds exciting.
Andy
Thanks all for the thoughts - the info on various kit/body shell manufacturers is also useful.
Quote from: Newportnobby on July 19, 2020, 03:08:10 PMChassis wise I'd venture the bulk come from 'cheap' non runners or NQP sales (Not Quite Perfect) but you have to know what you're doing with them.
Since the original post, I have noticed that there is at least a smattering of "rescued" motorised chassis out there for sale, though if one needed a particular chassis that just doesn't appear, that'll put you out of luck. I'm one of those who is reasonably happy to buy an older loco and give it some TLC, but finding a not-quite-perfect model for a price that isn't silly can be difficult, at least online - how I miss a good chance to browse second-hand stalls at exhibitions!
I've also since come across the TramFabriek site, offering various motors and associated parts. While many of their other products are based on continental models, there are a couple of UK-based upgrade kits. One does wonder what you could do with the components or upgrade kits in terms of scratch/kit building.
https://tramfabriek.nl/motors.html
Sven of Tramfabriek has posted on the Forum several times-he has some conversion kits specifically for British models; eg
https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=50392.msg656164#msg656164 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=50392.msg656164#msg656164)
Martyn
Quote from: martyn on July 23, 2020, 07:52:47 PM
Sven of Tramfabriek has posted on the Forum several times-he has some conversion kits specifically for British models; eg
https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=50392.msg656164#msg656164 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=50392.msg656164#msg656164)
Martyn
He also sells some Kato motorised chasses (https://tramfabriek.nl/motorised-chassis.html).
Here's a useful list of dimensions (http://trainweb.org/tomix/chassis_dim.htm) of motorised chasses for diesels/electrics/coaches/trams from Tomytec, Kato and a few other suppliers.
Body-shell vendors really should be offering chassis guidance with their products....
Mike
What chassis is the OP looking for particularly?
Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: maridunian on July 23, 2020, 08:50:28 PM
Body-shell vendors really should be offering chassis guidance with their products....
Mike
Although all of my 3D print offerings are linked directly to specific chassis etc. I think there is room in the market for those like rue d'etropal/Recreation21 who produce a common body design across several scales and leave the modeller to work out the chassis. Simon at Recreation21 is prolific in his output and covers a eclectic mix of designs. Most would not exist at all if he had to design in every scale to fit a commercially available chassis. I would not expect him to test print in every scale either.
As I am in the middle of a J50 build from a 3D print and Jinty chassis I thought I'd post a couple of photos to show how I've tackled the "rest" question.
The body was sourced from Shapeways from Chapel Design, who note that most of the detail parts are available from N Brass. They do not recommend a chassis but note that they are trying one from a Dapol Pannier. I had looked at the Farish Jinty chassis and thought this would also work, with the proviso that this has an equal wheelbase where the Pannier may be a bit more like the real J50 with shorter front wheelbase to rear. My Jinty was a good runner and hadn't cost a lot (£40) so I thought I would stick with this if it proved viable.
When the body arrived I tried in on the Jinty chassis which had had the body and footplate removed. It wouldn't fit in the right direction but fitted fine once reversed, with the PCB and DCC socket tilted to one side. As I didn't need the latter I could remove this and direct wire the motor, reversing the terminals so it runs in the normal direction. I made a couple of connectors from scrap brass strip from etched kits (I have a box for this and it's surprising how useful it is) and reconnected the motor. It ran fine so I looked at fixing body to chassis. Fortunately the body sat at the right height with the ends of the chassis resting on the ends of the body. The chassis was about 3mm short, so I aligned it so the front drivers lined up with the splashers. This meant a 1.5mm extension would be needed at each end.
Martyn and I have just finished an Atso N2 so I used the same method to fit the chassis to the 3D body. I trimmed the chassis width to 4mm at the front and fixed 1mm square Evergreen strips either side to align it correctly. These were a little too low so I added strips of 20thou plasticard to level these with the chassis. I then put another square of 20 thou over these to create a slot to fit the front into.
At the rear I made the chassis extension from pieces of plasticard and glued it to the chassis. I drilled a hole through this to take a small screw, and marked where this should be on the underside of the rear body mount. I made a piece of 1mm plasticard to fit the inside of this and drilled a hole through it to match that in the body. I melted a nut into this and then fixed it inside the body. I find thick superglue ideal for this. This meant the body could now be securely fixed to the chassis. There is a lot of clearance inside the body so there were no problems with rubbing of the body on the chassis.
I added lead in the tanks, bunker and smokebox to ensure the body weighed about the same as the original Jinty body. I could have added more but wondered if this would overload the motor. The N Brass parts provided chimney, dome, smokebox door, safety valve, whistle, buffers and vac pipes. I am using 0.2mm brass wire for handrails, making knobs from twisted fuse wire as this is less obtrusive than some of the overscale brass knobs available. I have found a couple of good photos of my chosen prototype and am adding any other details that I can see from brass or plasticard as appropriate. I am currently on the footplate steps and have tried to cut these in plastic using my Silhoutte cutter, but I think they will be better made in brass. I will sweat two pieces together and make two at once then separate them.
Hopefully this will be done by the end of the month and the model will be ready for spraying. It has been quite a quick build so far and has taken around ten hours to get to this stage, spread over a week or so.
I will use the same fixing method to fit an N chassis to a Rue d'Etropal W (as per my other thread) which has been put on hold pending finishing the stuff I have outstanding for James Street. We are in the throes of moving back to the UK so I suspect this will be project for next winter.
Dave
Quote from: Dr Al on July 23, 2020, 08:57:12 PM
What chassis is the OP looking for particularly?
As yet, none in particular, though it would be BR Blue era to match the layout. I'm still working out what's readily available on the market as RTR models, and what's particularly rare - Class 24s in the relevant livery seem particularly sparse. Separately from locos, I've discovered that Mk 2 coaches are rarer than hen's teeth, despite twice as many having been built in real life vs. Mk 3 - it always surprises me what common rolling stock is rare, and what one-off rolling stock is on every layout!