so, would I clap for them ?
aftewr today's example 'No. I would not'
daughter 2 had a bad night with grandson #3
sick several times, then temperature up, in the end to 38.
phoned 111
GP will phone you back...
did, and after going through symptoms said go to out of hours doctor at PRH Haywards Heath...
on arrival ... closed
used box on wall, and was told to go to A&E..
on arrival told 'we can't see him' ' go to OOH doctor'
explained no one there...
'they are down at the fractures clinic'..
drag down there, see receptionist... 'you haven't got an appointment, doctor won't see you'
explained situation, explained told to go to OOH doctor ....
NFI :veryangry:
told to go home and phone 111
already done
they will phone you back
already done
they will tell you to go to OOH Doctor
ALREADY DONE :censored:
as obviously dealing with brick wall ...
went home...
phoned 111, again
GP will phone you back, again
did, take to OOH doctor at PRH :censored: :censored:
explained previous experience ......
take to Pediatric hosp in Brighton...
did
final outcome
.....
'we think he's got tonsilitis'
wait for anti-biotics
wait
wait
bet Boris didn't have all this faffing about .
still waiting for her to get back, and
guess what I'll be doing tomorrow :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored:
NHS, no better than they ever were, to many got free training and then went abroad.
what a shambles
Hmmm bite my tongue or reply....
Doesn't sound like a great experience BUT we are amid a pandemic. All these staff, poorly equipped in areas, have had to learn how to tackle a virus which is ever changing and creating massive strain on the service. They put their lives on the line for us fighting this invisible enemy while many stay at home, safe from it...
I think It's unfair to label it a shambles. Ill prepared...maybe, but I for one think we should all be thankful of the work they are doing.
Hope the young'uns get better.
Yes I hope your little one is Ok .
My granddaughter is just turned one and she had a temperature of 39.2 my daughter rang 111 and had the same sort of run around as you told NOT TO COOL her down but just try and calm her ,eventually got to the doctor and he said TAKE HER HOME AND COOL HER DOWN WITH A COLD FLANNEL .
BUT PLEASE DONT BLAME THE N H S THEY ARE UNDER TERRIBLE PRESSURE .
THERE HASNT BEEN ANY THING LIKE THIS FOR YEARS and nothing could have prepared them for this and of course things are changing as the experts learn more about the virus and how to deal with it
The staff you dealt with might have been on duty for many many hours and had to deal with deaths and other major problems during their shift .
I wouldnt want their job for all the Locos made .So give them some slack .
Would you cope with the job .
Hope things get better soon .
Bob Tidbury
Meanwhile, elsewhere in the country a neighbour called 111 because they were worried about there child. Within an hour they'd had a callback from the 111 GP, been refered to out of hours doctor, was seen by said doctor, received medication and were on way back home to bed.
Sadly like most experiences with the NHS, shops, garages etc we all to often only hear when things go wrong, not when they go right.
Steven B
Speaking as the husband of a nurse I think it should also be remembered that a lot of NHS staff are carrying out tasks which they are not accustomed to at the moment. It's all hands to the pump and they are doing the absolute best they can.
My wife is a nurse working long hours and suffering for it. Can't say a lot else, the forum software censors pretty much everything I've tried to type.
When the PM first took up residence in Downing Street, he said 'the buck stops here'.
[gmod]Let's not make this political please or posts will be removed[/gmod]
while I accept that nurses and doctors are working long hours, and dealing in many cases with things outside their experience, surely that is no excuse for simple poor performance.
so many companies etc are using covid-19 as an excuse for poor service, but I'm afraid that some jumped up receptionist acting in this manner is just not acceptable, under any circumstances >:(
this view was actually endorsed by the complaints department when I spoke to them this morning, and they clearly stated that this should have been referred to the OOH doctor.
as for the A&E department, they simply referred my daughter to the fracture clinic, where the OOH doctor was located, and so did not refuse to see my grandson, simply redirected them.
the whole problem was the receptionist at the fracture clinic. whether by ignorance of her job, or sheer laziness, she will now be explaining her actions to the complaints department.
hopefully this sort of 'care' will not occur in the future to anyone else.
unfortunately, grandson is not responding to the antibiotics, and is now heading back down to the Alex for further investigation.
[gmod]The latter 2 posts have been removed as promised - the second one only as it had nothing to refer to with the first one gone. Any more and the thread will just be locked[/gmod]
You have to remember that the NHS is under enormous strain at the moment, mistakes will happen, but even now I suspect they get it right most of the time.
I know its worse when its your child but mostly they are doing an excellent job with little if any thanks.
Responding carefully as I work for the NHS...
There is no denying that issues do occur, and "Out of Hours Services" do seem to have more than most other services, especially in regions where they are not provided by the GPs and not by the same organisation as the A&E department. (Way off my patch, but from my directory of services OOH at Princess Royal Hospital, Haywards Heath is a independent sector provider "IC24"?)
There's a multitude of reasons issues occur. Sometimes there is an element of misunderstanding on the part of the patient, sometimes it is work load or other pressures on the staff, sometimes it is capacity, sometimes it is a breakdown of communication between the patient and the service or between services, and in the OP's case I suspect the latter is most likely the root cause.
I don't know the standard process in that area, but what would (should) happen in my area is that when 111 refer you to the OOH service they either book a Telephone consultation with the OOH Doctor who would then call you, or they book you in to attend at the OOH clinic (will give you a booking number and a half-hour window to arrive within), but either way the OOH service are expecting you.
I'm not sure from the OP whether the Doctor that phoned was from 111 or the OOH service (he might not have explained who he was properly), It's that next step that's missing - the Doc has said to go to the OOH clinic, but seemingly no-one told the clinic to expect you...
Covid-19 is undoubtedly putting extra pressure on services in some areas, and has lead to an avoidance of face-to-face interactions (from both patients and staff) which may be why the receptionist was reluctant to admit an unexpected arrival, but is rarely the sole cause of problems and shouldn't be used as an excuse...
For anyone reading; Your first step if you have any issues should be the "Patient Advice and Liason Service (PALS)" team at the relevant provider(s). All the ones I've dealt with are without exception good at 1. explaining to the patient what might have gone wrong, 2. reviewing/investigating common issues 3. ensuring that lessons are learnt.
Breakdowns in communication seem to be behind many of the problems.
Over the years I have lost a fair bit of pay with taking time off for appointments and it can be very frustrating when it is wasted.
I have had a GP appointment before work and a hospital appointment during the afternoon. I decided to take the day off (unpaid), due to the shortened day, only to find at the afternoon appointment that it was to go over the results of the test that they hadn't given me an appointment for yet!
I have taken a day off and paid for one of my sons to attend a music class for the day, so as to take another son to an appointment, only to have the appointment cancelled 15 minutes before it was due, as they'd forgotten to call everyone the week before and let people know that the clinic was cancelled (this was for the results, that we were desperately waiting for, of tests after our eldest son had a fit, followed by cardio-respiratory arrest!)
I have adjusted my working hours after receiving a letter cancelling my youngest son's appointment (that we had been waiting six months for), working fewer hours in the days preceding, as I knew I no longer needed the afternoon off, only to phone to make a new appointment and find that original had not been cancelled and they had no idea how the letter had been generated as they are created automatically when the appointment is cancelled on the system - more lost pay.
More recently I took the afternoon off to take my disabled wife to an appointment for treatment. Only for her to arrive and find chaos - the junior doctor had gone home because his child was ill and had to be collected from school ... but had not told anyone, so the department only knew when they had a clinic full of people all well past their appointment time! Luckily, the consultant agreed to treat her, as she knew that coming back the next day (as first suggested) would lead to me losing another afternoon's pay.
My wife suffered a fracture to her finger joint and an infection that needed an emergency operation and nearly cost her her finger. They "diagnosed" rheumatoid arthritis and referred her to rheumatology for a full diagnosis and confirmation. However the system prevented them referring to another hospital (the first was "out of area" as our local A&E has been closed) and they had to send a letter to the GP, who had to send another letter to the other hospital. One of the letters was never produced or went astray, meaning that she did not start treatment, her joints suffered further (permanent) damage and she has not been able to work since.
We have had many "choose and book appointments" that I have made arrangements around, only to have every single one cancelled at short notice and a new date just allocated without any consultation as to what suited us. Last year one of the re-allocated dates fell during our holiday, so we had to re-arrange, only for them to phone up twice on the day that we'd cancelled and offer us an appointment for that afternoon (probably the slot that we'd cancelled and they'd failed to offer to someone else!)
Why can't NHS implement a proper communications and appointment system and allow one hospital consultant to refer directly to another, without having to go through the GP. Why can't they arrange an appointment electronically, there and then?
We have had a whole lot more of these problems and it does seem to be (internal) communication problems that seem to cause them - much of it likely due to antiquated systems, lack of joined up computer systems and arcane rules of the various trusts. Until a recent "ban" the NHS was the world's largest customer for new fax machines - how long has it been since anyone in other workplaces sent or received a fax? Why they insist on sending faxes or letters for everything instead of simply encrypting the message and emailing, I don't know.
The treatment we have had has generally been very good - just the organisation and communication has been awful.
I tend to agree the 'hands on' staff are terrific but the office wallahs let the overall effort down. It's nothing new, though. 4 years ago my triple bypass was postponed the day before it was due. I'd already taken the cat to a cattery and psyched my self up by smoking all my last ciggies before I gave up before going in :doh:
I had to fetch the cat back and then do it all again 10 days later
You gave up smoking twice? Well done! I only managed to do it once :thumbsup:
Hi,
Honestly @class37025 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=311), I do feel your pain when the better half was due they forgot a steroid injection which mean't a dash back to the hospital at 1am to be back there for 8am for a C section.
At the time I was not a happy bunny, but with been there for well a lot in the days after it was only then how I saw just how under pressure the anti natal department was and they are slightly detached from the rest of the hospital and what is going on.
They had a shortage of staff across the board due to what was going on (from the receptionists all the way up) and when we got a chance to speak to some of them not only was there that pressure but all of them receptionists included were staying in isolated accommodation away from their families so they didn't risk bringing the infection into their part of the hospital.
I know how hard that can be having done it for many months and well years on tour it's hard to keep a smile on your face, your head in the game and the patience of a saint. So yes they may have cocked up sadly but a bit of perspective can sometimes explain a lot of what is going on and how hard things are on their side too.
I'll add a bit to this conversation for what its worth.
I work for the NHS in a frontline clinical role. From what I see, my colleagues and most NHS workers do excellent work and help a huge number of people. Sometimes things go wrong, and those cases make the headlines, understandably upsetting for those involved. But to dismiss the whole NHS on those grounds is wrong in my eyes.
On some other points; there was a project to unify all the computer systems throughout the uk some years back, but I think cost and complexity and political will stopped that idea. Our region stopped using fax machines internally due to security of data . We either send out appointments reminders with SMS text or letters or both. Most of our patients are elderly and don't do email and like a bit of paper.
I get SMS reminders for everything medical here, and it's brilliant. I can envisage elderly folk having a problem with that, however. As you say, they like it coming through the mail on paper.
But when I was a kid, I'd most certainly think of me as elderly!
Quote from: stevewalker on June 08, 2020, 10:02:14 PM
Breakdowns in communication seem to be behind many of the problems.
It all depends on the individual hospital unit/trust . I am a regular customer at Imperial (W London) who offer phone/txt reminders 1w and 1d before an OPD attendance is due, and you can book your next appt on the way out - they also have smartphone apps for all staff to access results from the bedside, and computers in all OPD consulting rooms.
So the NHS can get it right! It also gets things terribly wrong - NHS Direct was the forerunner to the 111 service and was doing video consults and online consults 10 years ago using a national network of linked call centres, call handlers backed by experienced nurses and decision support s/w.
it was replaced by 111, an inferior service not national ( different trusts /999 services were the providers , not linked initially) .
A similar episode occurred with OOH (Out of Hours services). Initially provided personally by GPs supported by commercial services, the system was improved with formation of GP coops, providing local GPs manning OOG centres and visiting services.
These coops closed overnight when the NHS changed the GP contract and they were not sustainable as a result. Now GP OOH is provided by commercial providers, and a few ex-Coop organisations. The proverbial one Doc and a dog service, in the Walk in Centres/ GP units in hospitals, or patchy visiting services.
( the Doc feeds the dog, and the dog diagnoses!)
So constant re-invention of the wheel, aided/hindered by the independent trust system, Lansley contracting farce, and the odd epidemic or two!!
NickR (35yrs at the Couchface)
Quote from: Railwaygun on June 09, 2020, 02:56:32 PM
The proverbial one Doc and a dog service, in the Walk in Centres/ GP units in hospitals, or patchy visiting services.
( the Doc feeds the dog, and the dog diagnoses!)
That takes care of the lab test, so who does the cat scan?
:D
QuoteSo constant re-invention of the wheel, aided/hindered by the independent trust system, Lansley contracting farce, and the odd epidemic or two!!
Dont forget multiple layers of management and office wallahs telling those at the coalface how to do their job,each layer must have some one above telling them what to do and a layer below to pass on the commands .Of course i could be wrong as im basing my theory on the practice of 30 years ago when 4 electricians needed 7 supervisors and managers to run the department,today i expect its closer to 1 multi skilled technician,19 managers and 47 contractors.
I remember years ago when my eldest daughter was in PRH, addressing a woman in a dark blue uniform as "Sister"
you'd have thought I'd suggested a quickie in the linen cupboard :-[
"I'm not a sister, I'm a nursing manager"
exit stage left in a foul mood. oooopppps
Just bear in mind that no-one ever asks you for your credit card when you walk in or send you a bill after you leave.
Here in the US the OP's experience would have been a little different.
Go straight to Urgent Care, but only if you have insurance, if not go straight to A&E. Oh and don't forget to make sure the facility you go to is 'In Network' with your insurer.
See the triage nurse and then wait for 3 or 4 hours because the people actively dying take priority.
See the Physicians assistant or sometimes the Doctor and then get sent home with some meds and the prospect of a $1k bill winging your way sometime over the next 3 weeks.
Regards,
John P
It's a bit like that here, too.
after being 'treated' sunday, daughter had to take him back again on monday as no improvement.
told anti-biotics were working, and given a spray to numb his mouth as in such pain with the ulcers there, then sent home.
tuesday evening, still no better, getting very listless, so son-in-law took him back, for the third time, to the Alex.
admitted, due to have IV and a feeding tube.
update today, apparently not tonsilitis, not thrush, anti-biotics prescribed not correct ones, now think it's a viral infection, but unable to get canula into his veins as now so dehydrated, and unable to get feeding tube in as his throat is now so swollen.
will probably be kept in for 3-4 days, and having a conference as to how to proceed now.
CEO's office now involved and an urgent case raised with PALS by CEO's office.
waiting now for some idea of how they intend to proceed.
Poor little chap. Hope they can get things sorted asap, Alan.
Hi Mick,
many thanks for that.
I did manage, just before taking HB for his evening walk, to get hold of my son-in-law, and things are apparently improving.
Antony has managed to eat some ice cream, and the doctors have managed to get a canula into his arm, so he is now getting fluids and anti-biotics. they have also decided not to try any further with getting the feeding tube in, but he is being fed through the IV.
he is much calmer and more alert, I assume as he is getting the fluids back into him.
they are still waiting for his test results but are pretty certain he has just got a virus infection.
all being well, he will hopefully be discharged late tomorrow afternoon.
speaking of feeding, his dad has not been allowed to leave his room, even to go to the vending machines, which I can understand with the Covid restrictions, but he has been able to get a drink now and then.
he had not however been able to go and get anything to eat since Antony went up to the ward, but just before tea time he was asked if he'd like them to sort him out a meal. :thumbsup:
don't know if someone had realised he'd not been able to get anything to eat, or what, but obviously very much appreciated.
I also checked if he'd got enough cash on him to pay his parking, of course when he went down he was expecting to be there for a couple of hours, not days, but he said he's been told they will sort out his parking charges. :thumbsup:
:hmmm: can't help but wonder if someone from the CEOs office may have been on the phone, or am I just being suspicious :o
Good news all round but, as you say, it does seem someone's butt has been kicked and a change of attitude has taken place although, as I've oft repeated, the folks at the 'coalface' know far more than the bosses how to treat people like human beings and not 'numbers'.
You got that right, same in the teaching game too.
should be in the happy thread, but putting here, so there.
grandson discharged this afternoon and on his way home.
test results not back yet, perhaps the lab is out for a walk :), but they will no doubt be forwarded to their gp so he can do a telephone update.
son-in law offered and had a breakfast, but didn't bother with lunch, though it was offered, and car parking charges waived :thumbsup:
so at least something was communicated.
hopefully he will be back to his normal energetic / annoying / loveable self in a few days.
so, a thank you to the front line staff, and I'm guessing the CEO's office / PALS, but still retain my views of the pen pushers, I'm afraid, but no doubt that will be resolved in due course.
so all in all ....
:claphappy:
Quote from: class37025 on June 11, 2020, 05:18:19 PM
car parking charges waived :thumbsup:
Be careful with that if it's one of these numberplate recognition systems as they're operated by a different set of (complete and utter) workers.
This happened to SWMBO before Covid started. She wasn't best pleased to receive a fine through the post for a 'waived' payment. She's NHS, by the way, although I heard little during her ensuing phone call to suggest much sympathy for some of their less able keyboard pokers :D
Most importantly good to hear they are discharged and doing well :thumbsup:
Not got much to add other then what @PLD (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=647) and others have also said.
I work at my local hospital in pharmacy and as part of my job I am involved with the governance team and PALS to be the pharmacy link in any cases involving medications. (I still am ward based in the mornings before someone calls me an office pen pusher :P )So I have seen and heard my fair share of stories over the years. Sadly it is usually true that its the bad ones that people hear about rather then all of the good work that is carried out simultaneously. Although when it comes to health I fully agree there should be no incidents of poor treatment which is what the organisation strives to achieve.
If PALS were involved there will be a good look into your case and I am sure if possible any learning and improvement will be put in place. I agree that it is the communication and out of hours areas where the service can be found wanting. The COVID saga has made things worse in this respect as diagnosis and other key areas are a lot harder without face to face interaction.
Also don't be too suspicious of the kind gestures a lot of us will do them if possible without the powers at be involvement especially if we know you have had a rough ride.
Dropped some medications in to an elderly gentleman on my way home the other week to save him a trip back to the hospital and its all these little things that are appreciated and actually when we do them makes us feel good too so win win :)
Is this thread still
Serving any useful
Purpose ? Shall
We close it?
NickR
Hi Nick,
think all points / opinions etc aired.
probably best to call it a day.
regards
alan
As above - now locked :locked: