N Gauge Forum

I know it takes money to keep this forum running and I read posts where people have sold items on the forum and afterwards made a contribution to the funds  :thumbsup:

I have contributed myself a few times since becoming a member  :NGF:

Rather than relying on the occasional contribution in my mind it would be more logical to have a yearly membership fee?

This would give the people who run the forum unpaid a better idea of cash available to plan improvements to the forum that will benefit us the members.

It is up to the members to support NGF so how about making life that bit easier for those who run it for us?  :-*

:NGaugersRule:

You seem to be missing an option for leave it like it is ie non paid membership and full access.

Cheers, Mike

Quote from: red_death on April 04, 2012, 01:43:32 PM
You seem to be missing an option for leave it like it is ie non paid membership and full access.

Cheers, Mike

Hi Mike,

I left that option off deliberately.

This is not an official poll by the moderators and I am not a moderator, nor would I want to be.

I am a member of many forums, mostly concerning radio control aircraft, which are run by very large companies, who moderate them, and have found when criticism is posted members dissappear.

All we are asked to do is moderate our language because there are younger members, apart from that we can write fairly much what we want.

I can only imagine that NGF is running on a shoestring and any shortfall is being met by one or more people.

No doubt things like the raffle at Christmas help, but the generosity of the companies and people who donated prizes cannot be relied upon.

The options I have listed are not going to break anyones budget, even a young person who only gets pocket money.

This poll may even be removed by the moderators I don't know, I only set it up out of curiosity.

You are entitled to voice your opinion and I hope my reply has made my reasoning clear.

Hi John

My point was more that you may be missing an option for a significant number of potential respondees, rather than a criticism of the idea that people may be happy to pay for NGF.

If you miss off a valid or desired option then you inadvertently skew the result.

Cheers, Mike

I see your point Mike but it is Johns' poll and he can put up whatever options he likes as long as they do not breach the CoC  :thumbsup:

Lawrence

Of course he can - I was only trying to help make it more useful / informative! 

I am genuinely interested in the results, but as it stands we could have for example 100 people saying that they would be prepared to pay, but 300 people not voting as there is no relevant option for them ie a completely skewed result.

I'll butt out now.

Cheers, Mike

Fair point Mike, I'll see if I can edit the options with Johns blessing of course

if we start paying a membership (to which i would for the record) going to start costing us new members????will it open up a new can of worms as when folk start paying for something they might start wanting more for there money???

To be honest I would not be in favour of a 'membership fee'.

I have (on numerous occasions) and will continue to give donations to the Forum, because, I find it to be a great resourse and a very well run on-line community that I get a lot more out of than I am able to put back.

I would pay a 'fee' if I had to but it is like anything in life, once you change the dynamic, you also change everything associated with it - would we get less members? or a different type of member? etc

Paul

Making it charged for changes the whole thing. All of a sudden its taking free contributions from one person and charging someone else for the privilege of reading them.

Equally though if there isn't enough money to run it them something has to be done. I've no idea how much its currently costing given it appears to be hosted and using some kind of proprietary payware board software.

Hopefully the economy will pick up in the next year or two and I'll be able to push Tank some advertising fees but right now its all very dead, and the great budget pension burglary is going to hurt the model railway world as is massive postage rise.

Alan

Quote from: galway on April 04, 2012, 07:17:05 PM
To be honest I would not be in favour of a 'membership fee'.

I have (on numerous occasions) and will continue to give donations to the Forum, because, I find it to be a great resourse and a very well run on-line community that I get a lot more out of than I am able to put back.

I would pay a 'fee' if I had to but it is like anything in life, once you change the dynamic, you also change everything associated with it - would we get less members? or a different type of member? etc

Paul

I was about to reply with similar sentiments as you Paul. I think, in general, grateful forum members will make donations where they are able. It's hard to say who donates what with the way things are at the moment, only Tank and the Mods really know.

Its been my experience in similar situations that an equalising can take place when things are voluntary. Our hobby can be expensive as it is, do we really want to "exclude" those that perhaps are, at the moment, unable to donate, from a friendly forum?

Having said that, I don't really know what sort of costs are involved in running a forum, maybe with the current financial way of things, perhaps the status may have to change to preserve the forum.

Thank you for all you comments and just in case any have not read from the start, I set up this poll.

It has nothing to do with any of the moderators nor am I aware of any plan to introduce any sort of fee, I started this out of curiosity and there is no other motive than that.

I'm a member of another forum where there are 2 levels of membership. Basic membership is free and allows the usual posting and reading of all the topics and sub-forums except one.

The second level costs approx £10 per year but for that you are allowed to store your photos within the web site (up to a limit) and there is sub-forum where you can go 'off piste', so to speak, and discuss issues which you don't wish to be open for general discussion or to be viewed by non-paying members or guest browsers.

This seems to provide adequate finance for running the site without penalising those who either can't afford to or simply don't wish to pay.

On a few other forums I'm a member of there is an option for members to donate and for their donation they get a private forum that only they and other contributing members can access.

Not knowing the costs of running this forum I would say £5 is a reasonable fee to pay.

Hi Scotsoft.  This is an interesting poll. :thumbsup:  I will be watching how it goes. :computersmile:

I liked Chinahand's idea that you could get nearly everything for free but a few things would be a benefit of full (paid) membership. :thumbsup:  But sadly that isn't one of the voting options either!!!

But what would the extras be on here?  Selling items maybe?  The media gallery perhaps (I know that is an expensive feature).  Anything else?

Hmm, now to decide which button to push... ???

Quote from: Mustermark on April 05, 2012, 02:50:53 AM
Hi Scotsoft.  This is an interesting poll. :thumbsup:  I will be watching how it goes. :computersmile:

I liked Chinahand's idea that you could get nearly everything for free but a few things would be a benefit of full (paid) membership. :thumbsup:  But sadly that isn't one of the voting options either!!!

But what would the extras be on here?  Selling items maybe?  The media gallery perhaps (I know that is an expensive feature).  Anything else?

Hmm, now to decide which button to push... ???

Thank you for your comments  :thumbsup:

The option closest to Chinahands suggestion, as it stands, is the "Would not pay but only have non member access".

I set this to run for 28 days so after it closes this may provide information for further discussion.
I was well aware there will be different viewpoints and I hope these are posted.

My point of setting this up was to stimulate discussion to see if we could improve what is already excellent forum where everyone is warmly welcomed and no question is ever thought of as being stupid.  In fact, I have noticed that when a question is asked there is usually a few different suggestions put forward so the member posting the question can choose the option best suited for them.

Lets see what unfolds as the days pass  :beers:

Nice one, John :thumbsup: Thanks for putting this 'out there'.
For certain, the  :NGF: has created a great atmosphere that we all feel relaxed in, which is borne out just lately by some new members stating their liking for what they have seen before registering.
We are, indeed, A Band of Brothers (and Sisters) :D

Quote from: EtchedPixels on April 04, 2012, 09:06:11 PM
Making it charged for changes the whole thing. All of a sudden its taking free contributions from one person and charging someone else for the privilege of reading them.

For me this is the crucial point.  We all give and take freely.

I completely accept that the owner of the site has a cost to bear in terms of hosting and asking for things to be free does not help with that, though hopefully donations and/or paid adverts could take that strain.

It is still an interesting exercise and I will be interested in the outcome.

Cheers, Mike

I was very interested to see this topic and poll appear. It certainly highlights the fact that this forum does bear a financial cost, something that can be forgotten or overlooked.

I will certainly be following this with much interest, and look forward to seeing the results. I have voted myself and i would like to see many other members points of view.

Good idea for starting this topic John :thumbsup:

Great idea for a poll John, forums of this standard do cost quite a bit of money to keep going, OK there are free forums out there but they never come up to this standard.

I have been involved in forums for about 20 years and this is the only one I know of that has been open to forum members to contribute ideas to make it even better by including more sections, its things like that that have made it as good as it is.

I have voted and look forward to seeing the results over the next 3 or 4 weeks.

I like the way the forum runs at the moment, I would like to think that those who feel they are getting something out of it will make a voluntary contribution, I certainly intend to chip in annually and I hope that if others do the same there will not be a problem.

Quote from: MinZaPint on April 06, 2012, 05:10:36 PM
I like the way the forum runs at the moment, I would like to think that those who feel they are getting something out of it will make a voluntary contribution, I certainly intend to chip in annually and I hope that if others do the same there will not be a problem.

My thoughts exactly. Also if there is an unexpected emergency I would be happy to punt in a few extra pounds as required.

I tend to agree with the view above. I would be concerned that the whole dynamic of this forum would change, quite possibly not for the better, with a mandatory subscription.

Thanks for this great poll Scotsoft.  I am always grateful for the support of the advertisers on the forum, and of course I'm extremely grateful to the people who donate.  The last few weeks have been good for donations, but so far this year I have received £65 in donations. 

I've always wanted this forum to remain free, although I have talked with Lawrence and the Moderating team about possibly introducing a paid membership for certain parts of the forum.  This is because despite our efforts, we can't get more advertisers on board.  Modelling shops and small businesses are always interested, but they just don't commit.  I had hoped that we might get a couple of new advertisers on board from our last NGF Raffle, but it didn't happen sadly.  Even introducing the sale of mugs and t-shirts has only given the forum about £25 in profit in over a year.

There are projects which I'd love to start for the forum, like enamel badges, or custom wagons for sale (thanks to HellsGuardian for that idea).  These of course are costly to set up, but I think they would appeal to members.  These won't happen of course with not enough money coming in.

Anyway, the forum will remain free for now for everyone, but long term we NEED more advertisers on board.

I will admit that if this site had been a pay site I would have vanished last time my 'subs' were due.
No fault of the site but with extra expenses looming from my sons house purchase on an irregular bassis every penny has needed to be watched this end.
I didnt answer this pole till now because I wanted to see if my situation had eased enough for me to make a donation.
Well it has so long overdue but a donation is winging itself (2nd class e- postage stamp) along to swell the boards coffers.
Point being....... its not always the obvious as to why people leave rather than pay membership fees so please keep things as they are for as long as possible  :thumbsup:

Hi Tank

Had some funds in my Paypal account from some ebay sales, so have sent a Tenner to contribute to keeping things ticking over.

Cheers

Roy

Thanks ever so much guys.  I hate to think I'm asking for money, but I appreciate everyone who has helped. :thumbsup:

I haven't voted as, like others have said, I don't think there's enough options.
Good topic though.  :thumbsup:
As a free forum that is scale specific it throws a lifeline to us skint financially challenged members.
If there was any separate subscription it would depend on what you'd get for it as to how well it would be received.
I think keep it as is for now, get more sponsors (perhaps the NGS would be interested?) and have the odd donation.
Obviously things like the raffle help.
The custom wagon idea is great, very scale specific!  :evil:
Perhaps a cheaper way of doing that would be exclusive decals to add to wagons?
These could even be done 'in house' by members. Just a thought.

Believe me, myself and Lawrence have had many discussions with the top brass of the NGS.  They seemed VERY keen, but then nothing happened. 

A couple of things:

1) By keeping it free it encourages more people to join and share their knowledge.
2) I offer my knowledge (as sparse as it is) for free. If the forum is going to gain from my contributions then why shouldn't I, as a contributor, be paid royalties?

Other forums I frequent have a graphic bar at the top of every page showing target contributions and current contributions for that month. These forums invariably make the target in the last few days when members realise it is falling short. I would suggest something similar for this corner of the Internet. If members could see NGF might go off air I think we would all be more inclined to donate...

Quote from: Flakmunky on April 07, 2012, 09:33:16 PM
A couple of things:

1) By keeping it free it encourages more people to join and share their knowledge.

I couldn't agree more.

Quote from: Flakmunky on April 07, 2012, 09:33:16 PM
2) I offer my knowledge (as sparse as it is) for free. If the forum is going to gain from my contributions then why shouldn't I, as a contributor, be paid royalties?

The idea of membership would be for the forum to pay for itself, which is why a measly £5 or £10 for an entire year is suggested.  If people are to be paid royalties for their contributions, then myself and the moderators should be paid for our time.....  Then the £5 doesn't work!  :D

Good idea about the monthly targets.  I don't like asking anyone for money, and I wouldn't want members to feel like they have to contribute.  In the past I've dipped into my own pocket to pay for upgrades and modifications if the money hasn't been there.  I'd love it if the forum would just be run from N Gauge advertisers, but businesses that seem keen just don't commit to it.  I'm grateful to the current three advertisers for continually supporting us.

I'll make a donation, as I do enjoy the forum... Is £10 ok?!

Quote from: Flakmunky on April 08, 2012, 12:14:30 PM
I'll make a donation, as I do enjoy the forum... Is £10 ok?!

Very generous, FM. Thank you very much :thumbsup:

Hi,

I've been watching this thread with interest. At the moment the only annual subs I pay are for the NGS. When I wrote my aviation books I had numerous subs to various magazines, forums etc just to keep up to date with the latest research. In the end it was too much and I cancelled the whole lot.

Nowadays I tend to be choosy on what my money goes on. I drift in and out of several railway forums but this is the only one I spend most of my time on. It has a great atmosphere and everyone is very friendly and freely give hints, tips and general info on what they know. I for one am extremely grateful for all the help I have received since I joined, and I try to pass on what little info I have to others.

Not sure if this would continue if subs introduced. It may stop people from joining and existing members may just drift off elsewhere. I know this has happened on some of the aviation forums I used to be in. Small groups would break off and start their own forums.

The monthly target sounds a good idea as it may encourage more donations. I've seen a couple of forums that show a yearly target and how much donations have been made to date.

Anyway I'm off to log into paypal to help out.

Alex :wave:

Quote from: Flakmunky on April 07, 2012, 09:33:16 PM

Other forums I frequent have a graphic bar at the top of every page showing target contributions and current contributions for that month. These forums invariably make the target in the last few days when members realise it is falling short. I would suggest something similar for this corner of the Internet. If members could see NGF might go off air I think we would all be more inclined to donate...

There is nothing more effective than a simple graphic to get your point across.

In 1986 I worked for Amoco, my director attended monthly meetings with other directors and one month he asked me if I could use our newly acquired desktop PC's to make his monthly figures less boring.
I purchased a new graphics program call Harvard Graphics and created pie charts, bar charts all sorts of charts in glorious colour for him.  That changed how all their meetings were held after that, it also meant I was not considered for further promotion as he would not let me go, so I eventually let them go.

Flakmunky's idea of a sliding graphic sounds ideal.
This would hopefully do away with the need for an annual subscription, which should please everyone, encourage members to chip in as the month nears its end and our forum to expand to worldwide domination  :NGaugersRule:  :evil:  :smiley-laughing:

Quote from: scotsoft on April 08, 2012, 02:27:22 PM

Quote from: Flakmunky on April 07, 2012, 09:33:16 PM

Other forums I frequent have a graphic bar at the top of every page showing target contributions and current contributions for that month. These forums invariably make the target in the last few days when members realise it is falling short. I would suggest something similar for this corner of the Internet. If members could see NGF might go off air I think we would all be more inclined to donate...

There is nothing more effective than a simple graphic to get your point across.

Flakmunky's idea of a sliding graphic sounds ideal.
This would hopefully do away with the need for an annual subscription, which should please everyone, encourage members to chip in as the month nears its end and our forum to expand to worldwide domination  :NGaugersRule:  :evil:  :smiley-laughing:

This sounds like a great idea :thumbsup:, especially if everytime you log on you see the stats in graphic form, would be a great reminder of state of play etc

Thanks for the donations chaps. :thumbsup: :NGaugersRule:

I'll certainly look into these ideas.  Paid membership is not something I wanted to do, but this thread has certainly shown different ideas and different views on looking at it.