Hi all,
I planned on buying the Dapol A4 mallard and A3 flying Scotsman through the ages LNER apple green model however due to serving in the navy and being deployed for the last 7 months it looks like I've missed my chance.
There are several good examples listed on eBay of the named locos by both Minitrix and Farish, I was just wondering if these would be worth buying as my layout is both DCC and DC powered via DPTD switch So that's not a problem.
I have no experience of Minitrix as I'm fairly new to N gauge and only came across the older Farish 5 pole powered models in 2005 when I worked in a model shop Prior to my time in the mob but cant remember much about them as we didn't sell/stock many as we where primarily a OO gauge specialist.
I currently have 4 other Dapol A4's Silver fox, Union of South Africa, Golden eagle, Empire of India how do these older models perform in comparison to the dapol A4's ?
Any help and advice would be much appreciated as I don't want to pay £100 each for them to be disappointed.
Many Thanks
Craig
The Minitrix A3 and A4 were some of Minitrix's last British N locos and used a chassis design dating from the 1980s, later than their Britannia model which goes back to the 1970s. As with all the British Minitrix locos the chassis was taken from a German loco, there were some compromises to get the body to fit. The A4 looks a little "fat" to me, and the A3 has an obvious filled-in moulding underneath the boiler to cover the mechanism. Some spares may be difficult to obtain now. On the plus side, a well maintained example should run smoothly and quietly and have decent haulage.
http://minitrix.org.uk/The4-6-2Locos/ (http://minitrix.org.uk/The4-6-2Locos/)
I have no experience of the Farish or Dapol models, though to me the Dapol look better.
[edit] £100 for a Minitrix loco that's over 30 years old is too much, I would be looking at more like £50 - £60 at most. They are not particularly rare.
Many thanks for the reply, I had read that the Minitrix locos where a bit of a cut and shut job using European chassis etc, I will keep the bulbous appearance of the A4's in mind and will await to see if any one has any experience with the Farish variants of the models before deciding to make any purchases if any at all.
Thanks again
Craig
Quote from: Craigb302 on June 03, 2020, 07:06:40 AM
Many thanks for the reply, I had read that the Minitrix locos where a bit of a cut and shut job using European chassis etc, I will keep the bulbous appearance of the A4's in mind and will await to see if any one has any experience with the Farish variants of the models before deciding to make any purchases if any at all.
Thanks again
Craig
The Farish A3 has a disproportionately large boiler to cover the mechanism, disguised somewhat on the late crest loco that has the "German" smoke defelectors.
The A4 from what I have learned has a loco body that is very good in terms of dimensions and proportions.
Below the footplate both suffer the use of generic chassis with undersize driving wheels and wrong wheel spacings so don't to my mind capture an A3/A4 in terms of look or running gait at all.
They are both mechanically simple and quite robust, but very much of their time and don't hold a candle to recent models.
The Dapol models are both much more accurate and detailed representations of both locos above and below the footplate, I had a problem with one, fixed by Dr Al of this parish. More generally some have trouble with locating the loco-tender driveshafts and pickups from the tender are not especially well designed and can be intermittent, also the pickup wires between loco and tender are very fine and can break very easily so care is needed when handling. That said they are very strong pullers and the correctly scaled driving wheels make them look "right" when running.
Roy
Personly I would go for early G/F reason is they may not have the fine detail of Dapol but they are trouble free and spare parts are not a problem,
@Craigb302 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=8663),
The Minitrix A3 has aged very well. There was one on the cover of the NGS Journal earlier this year, and while the pizza cutter wheels were very old fashioned, the rest of the model is very attractive. Almost certainly not perfect in terms of dimensions, but if you get the later ones with the proper Brunswick green (Minitrix took a while to get the colour right) it'll grace any layout it's running on. At speed they look a treat!
The Dapol models do look better, but I find the tender drives noisy, and I find the tender drive noise more irritating than the motor noise from the Minitrix (and Peco) models of the past. Also, like any finely detailed steam engine these days, they don't tolerate handling at all well. If you're constantly chopping and changing trains (as opposed to parking them in a fiddle yard) their delicacy might become a liability after a while.
But with that said: the Minitrix A3s are old models. Spending £100 seems crazy to me. Simply not worth the risk. If you want something solid in the 'moving kettle' department, perhaps look at Union Mills? These should comfortably have the 40+ year lifespans we associated with Minitrix models, but starting today. With a bit of weathering and detailing, they can come up a treat! The current ones are much quieter than the Minitrix models, let alone the Dapol tender drive models.
Cheers, NeMo
I have the Minitrix A4 in BR green "Mallard" and preserved "Sir Nigel Gresley" plus "Flying Scotsman" (A3) in BR green. They are beautiful made and quite robust although the chassis is a compromise. In terms of engineering, Bachmann and Dapol could learn a thing from these models.
I also have a couple of Farish A4 which run OK and look the part except for those tiny bogie wheels.
In terms of fidelity, Dapol's A3 and A4 leave all of these for dead. However, after my personal experiences with Dapol steam locos I decided to give them a miss.
Others mileage may vary. :)
Kind regards
Paddy
I agree with Paddy, Dapol steam models look good but the tender drive shaft to the Locomotive causes problems, in the past I purchased both these models and returned them, the Dapol diesels on the other hand are very good and trouble free, [up till now ] Minitrix are also very good but spare parts and repairs can be a problem, G/F are about the best buy for beginers and the early models can be enhanced and converted to DCC , unfortunately Union Mills don't make any of the big express locomotives but what they do sell are very good and at a reasonable price
Afterthought to Paddy you can purchase slightly bigger bogie wheels for your G/F A3s and A4s from B R Lines
Wow thanks for all the replies some very informative information has been noted.
I think I will bid on the Farish variant By the sounds of it or give it a few weeks to see if a dapol model comes up for sale.
As I'm in no rush to purchase one, I could kick my self now for not pre ordering them before I got deployed.
If only Hattons had their trunk system back then.
Touch wood my current 4 dapol A4's have been problem free, however I see the point about the driveshaft I initially thought it was a poor piece of engineering when I bought my First A4 Union of South Africa last year, its definitely going to be the fail point in the model.
Thanks For all the advice
Craig
I have owned a Minitrix Mallard for many years, and love it. Obviously a compromise, it is nontheless a lovely model with the solidness and lines of the real thing.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/94/255-040620071223-94828450.jpeg)
The tender is close coupled, and, at a time when it was the only A4 available in N, was really a must-have.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/94/255-040620071053-94825435.jpeg)
Unfortunately, as I write this, it's not in good fettle due to thrown traction tyres because of constant running at an exhibition in the nineties. I hate traction tyres!
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/94/255-040620071445-94833401.jpeg)
The mechanism is sound, and I look forward to seeing the beautiful duck run again in the future. :thumbsup:
Quote from: Craigb302 on June 03, 2020, 03:20:58 PM
Touch wood my current 4 dapol A4's have been problem free, however I see the point about the driveshaft I initially thought it was a poor piece of engineering when I bought my First A4 Union of South Africa last year, its definitely going to be the fail point in the model.
Thanks For all the advice
Craig
Hi Craig
I modded the tender of my two A4s by cutting a section out of the tender floor and sticking it to the chassis. This allows you to fit the driveshaft with the tender out of the way rather than dangling off said shaft. Much easier!
In terms of point of failure I don't think the driveshaft is going to necessarily be the problem, in essence it is no different to early Farish China diesels, my bigger concern is reported drive-gear wear and the occasional duff motor.
That said, if you want an accurate model the Dapol one is the only game in town.
Regards
Roy
Quote from: Roy L S on June 04, 2020, 10:06:33 AM
I modded the tender of my two A4s by cutting a section out of the tender floor and sticking it to the chassis. This allows you to fit the driveshaft with the tender out of the way rather than dangling off said shaft. Much easier!
You did what? Can you explain to an idiot like me or show a photo of the modification? Are you saying you cut away some of the tender floor, glued it onto the chassis, and thereby made a bigger gap (from underneath) so you could fit the cardan shaft more easily?
Cheers, NeMo
Hi NeMo
I will try to post a pic later but basically yes as you say. It means that the cardan shaft can be refitted with the tender top out of the way and then once done you can pop it back on the chassis without disturbing the shaft. Much easier than trying to refit the cardan shaft with it poking through the hole in the tender body and that rattling around on it!
Regards
Roy
I find it very difficult to re-fit the shaft to the loco when it comes out.
Any advice?
Mojo
BIN IT
Quote from: mojo on June 04, 2020, 04:44:43 PM
I find it very difficult to re-fit the shaft to the loco when it comes out.
Any advice?
Mojo
Er... always handle loco and tender together in one hand so that they don't flex enough for the shaft to come out in the first place :D
When servicing shaft drive locos and I've had them separated, I just use a pair of tweezers to guide the shaft into the loco first.
I don't have anything against shaft drive, it can work well and allow loco-drive with decent weight over the drivers. Just disappoints me that the Dapol models seem to struggle round 9" when I have old Roco 2-10-0s (shaft drive) which handle this easily.
I agree with Nick as regards the Cardan shaft, it is like anything else, fitting it becomes a knack but with careful handling they don't pop out often.
As to East Anglian's comments "bin it" I would just say each to his own. In my humble opinion the Minitrix A3/4 are best described as of their time and much more a representation than a scale model of the prototypes. If that floats your boat fine, but while I have examples of both Mintrix locos boxed somewhere, I personally prefer to run my much more accurate Dapol models and enjoy the prototypically loping gait of the big drivers, touches like lubricator link and speedo drive and in the case of one DCC sound...
Roy
Hi Roy,
Totally agree that the Dapol A3/4 are good looking models plus you can even get a valanced A4! My personal issue with Dapol is the fragility and somewhat inconsistent build quality of their steam locomotives.
Again, this may just be my bad luck or down to me in some way. At present, I have decided to avoid any more Dapol steam locomotives until clear evidence emerges of a step change in robustness.
As always, other people's mileage may vary.
Kind regards
Paddy
Thanks again for all the info, and to Bealman For providing the pictures she truly does look stunning for the locos age, A Dapol Mallard has Since came up for sale on eBay so I'm going to try and win that Along with a Sir Nigel gresley By Minitrix fingers crossed. Whilst we are on the subject of such has anyone had any experience with the dapol light bars in gresley coaches I'm happy they are plug and play but how do they look are they not too bright etc ? Ive currently only got the train tech Warm white lights fitted in some Farish mk2 TSO coaches And a flickering tail light on my brake coach which are ok in darker environments but during the day you barley notice they are on.
What do most people use do they go with the orange coloured type or have people just put the warm white ones in ? When dapol sold the flying Scotsman with 4 coaches prior to my deployment they came pre fitted with the warm white ones I believe ?
Any pictures or advice again would be appreciated before I go spending £8 ea on lights for 24 coaches.