Hello all, new guy from the USA just getting back into trains after 49 year absence. I love the looks of the Hall Class and the Jubilees and want to find one of them with DCC and sound installed and 3 or 4 passenger cars. I have not decided on which livery to go with. If you can make any recommendations and where they might be obtained I am open to suggestions. Great information on this site and I am learning a lot. Thanks for the help!
Quote from: Pacecars on May 04, 2020, 01:29:33 AM
Hello all, new guy from the USA just getting back into trains after 49 year absence. I love the looks of the Hall Class and the Jubilees and want to find one of them with DCC and sound installed and 3 or 4 passenger cars. I have not decided on which livery to go with. If you can make any recommendations and where they might be obtained I am open to suggestions. Great information on this site and I am learning a lot. Thanks for the help!
Go for a Jubilee, preferably in LMS livery - there's far too much Great Way Round being modelled ;)
Only kidding, both were good looking locos.
Another vote for LMS Jubilees. Beautiful looking loco.
Third. For a action and videos look in railway discussion photos and videos, railtours and specials. Mick and I created a few iteMS OF INTEREST
Everything will depend on what era your loco will be.
If you have a look at the Bachmann website (specifically the Farish pages) you will see alongside the reference there is an 'era' number which is dependent on the livery carried by the loco. You can then also do the same for coaches and wagons etc to match your items up.
https://www.bachmann.co.uk/category/model-railway/graham-farish/steam-locomotives (https://www.bachmann.co.uk/category/model-railway/graham-farish/steam-locomotives)
It's as good a guide as any.
Attached is a list of the Farish era references. (Mine might be out of date, though)
Have you considered a blue LNER A4 loco with red wheels from Dapol ?
In my opinion it's the best looking steam loco on the market.
Best regards,
Joe
Quote from: Newportnobby on May 04, 2020, 10:55:42 AM
Everything will depend on what era your loco will be.
Dunno why they have to muck around with this "era" lark ;)
All that's really needed is Pre-Grouping, Big 4 and BR before 1968 >:D
Quote from: joe cassidy on May 04, 2020, 10:56:44 AM
Have you considered a blue LNER A4 loco with red wheels from Dapol ?
In my opinion it's the best looking steam loco on the market.
Best regards,
Joe
Blue?
Red wheels?
Tsk, tsk, sounds like a clown car.
:smackedface:
You want classic, sleek lines, sublime styling, the sheer image of refinement and power, all encased in a beautiful Crimson Lake coating with straw lining.
:P
Yeah, but who's ever seen a crimson lake, whereas I've seen a blue garter with my own eyes! :P
Quote from: emjaybee on May 04, 2020, 11:10:13 AM
Quote from: joe cassidy on May 04, 2020, 10:56:44 AM
Have you considered a blue LNER A4 loco with red wheels from Dapol ?
In my opinion it's the best looking steam loco on the market.
Best regards,
Joe
Blue?
Red wheels?
Tsk, tsk, sounds like a clown car.
:smackedface:
You want classic, sleek lines, sublime styling, the sheer image of refinement and power, all encased in a beautiful Crimson Lake coating with straw lining.
:P
Yes, I want classic, sleek lines, sublime styling, the sheer image of refinement and power, all encased in a beautiful Crimson Lake coating with straw lining.
Where can I buy it ?
Does anyone make the crimson Jubilee in N scale?
I googled n gauge jubilee hattons.co.uk. whether they have any in stock is a different matter
Quote from: Pacecars on May 04, 2020, 02:15:59 PM
Does anyone make the crimson Jubilee in N scale?
I have a Farish one for sale which is missing nameplates.........
It's not on our N'Porium as I thought now is not the best time to ask folks to part with money
Quote from: Pacecars on May 04, 2020, 02:15:59 PM
Does anyone make the crimson Jubilee in N scale?
Graham Farish made two. Trafalgar and Nelson. I'm not going to lie, they're hard to find.
My option for this would be buy a second hand Jubilee and have it repainted by someone professional. I have eight Jubilees:
3 x original BR lined green ( may get repainted one day)
1 x original LMS lined crimson
1 x repainted in LMS lined crimson
3 x repainted in lined LMS black
Only one of these was brand new, the LMS lined crimson. BR green ones are cheaper to buy than LMS ones, Farish have never done lined black. There is one double chimney model made, Bahamas, this generally fetches more than other green Jubilees.
The beauty of having one repainted is that it can be exactly what you like, and one that no one else has (probably). Buying second-hand and repainting is no more expensive than buying new.
Quote from: Newportnobby on May 04, 2020, 02:43:09 PM
Quote from: Pacecars on May 04, 2020, 02:15:59 PM
Does anyone make the crimson Jubilee in N scale?
I have a Farish one for sale which is missing nameplates.........
It's not on our N'Porium as I thought now is not the best time to ask folks to part with money
@Pacecars (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=8555) I'd get in touch with him sharpish and make a deal! You can get nameplates from Fox Transfers. I'd hurry if I was you, my wallets getting itchy!
Quote from: Newportnobby on May 04, 2020, 11:27:45 AM
Yeah, but who's ever seen a crimson lake, whereas I've seen a blue garter with my own eyes! :P
Sorry, I've only just got that!
:dunce:
Quote from: Pacecars on May 04, 2020, 01:29:33 AM
Hello all, new guy from the USA just getting back into trains after 49 year absence. I love the looks of the Hall Class and the Jubilees and want to find one of them with DCC and sound installed and 3 or 4 passenger cars. I have not decided on which livery to go with. If you can make any recommendations and where they might be obtained I am open to suggestions. Great information on this site and I am learning a lot. Thanks for the help!
Neither the Farish Jubilee or Dapol Hall are available with factory fitted sound (both are DCC ready with sockets for 6-pin decoders). There's an earlier Farish Hall but it is not DCC ready and is less detailed than the current range of models, that said the older model will probably out-haul the more modern models.
Both Farish Jubilee (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymNu3FCpeh4) and Dapol Hall (https://www.world-of-railways.co.uk/techniques/how-to-fit-dcc-sound-into-a-dapol-n-gauge-hall/) can be fitted for sound
If you want sound fitted from the Factory then you need to look for the Farish Castle or 8F. I don't believe Dapol have released any steam locos that are factory fitted for sound.
You don't say what era you're looking at modelling so suggesting coaching stock is harder. For pre nationalisation (1948) and early BR (before 1951) you'll need to look a Dapol's Collett or Farish Hawksworth coaches for the Hall. The Jubilee will need the Staniers produced by Farish. Post 1951 BR's Mk1 would start appearing, initially in the longer distance express trains. Crimson/Cream, maroon or BR(W) chocolate/Cream would be appropriate for BR days. For pre-BR you'll need GWR chocolate and cream for the Hall's coaches, and LMS crimson for the Jubilee.
Train formations are tricky. Both Hall and Jubilee were used on middle-long distance trains which were normally longer than the 3-4 you have space for. That said, I'd suggest:
BCK-SK-SK-BSK
or
SK-SK-CK-BSK
where:
BCK - brake composite (brake coach with 1st & 2nd/3rd seating) in compartments
BSK - brake second (brake coach with second class seating) in compartments
CK - composite (1st & 2nd/3rd seating) in compartments
SK - second class seating in compartments
The SK-SK-CK-BSK is more typical of shorter rakes - this formation is an accurate Crewe-Preston train from 1969 for example.
The BSK-SK-SK-BCK is a representation of longer trains which normally had brake coaches at each end. Modellers often fall in to the habit of doing the same regardless of train length despite there being plenty of real 3-5 coach long formations with only one brake coach.
For a three coach train, drop one of the SK
Personally, at this length of train I wouldn't bother with either a buffet car or one that is 100% first class.
Steven B.
Quote from: Pacecars on May 04, 2020, 01:29:33 AM
Hello all, new guy from the USA just getting back into trains after 49 year absence. I love the looks of the Hall Class and the Jubilees and want to find one of them with DCC and sound installed and 3 or 4 passenger cars. I have not decided on which livery to go with. If you can make any recommendations and where they might be obtained I am open to suggestions. Great information on this site and I am learning a lot. Thanks for the help!
Not surprising you like both Jubilees and Halls. William Stannier (who designed the Jubilee for the LMS), originally studied at Swindon and took some of their ideas with him when he went to the LMS.
The Jubilees were Crimson when built and would have run with coaches such as the LMS Staniers (also produced by Farish).
(https://hattonsimages.blob.core.windows.net/products/372-477_1012840_Qty1_1.jpg)
In BR days they were painted green. Initially they would have run with Crimson and Cream coaches and later Maroon ones. These would have been stanier coaches initially with increasing quantities of BR Mk1 coaches appearing over the years.
The Halls were painted in green when new and would have had either "Great Western", the Shirtbutton monogram or "G(crest)W" on the tender before 1948. They would have run with Chocolate and cream coaches (Collett from Dapol or Hawksworth from Farish). After 1948 they were painted in black livery and would have run with Crimson and Cream Collett, Hawksworth or BR Mk1 coaches. From about 1956 onwards they started being painted green again but this time with the BR crest on their tenders. They would have run with Maroon coaches, again either Collett, Hawksworth or Mk1. They could sometimes be seen hauling BR Mk1 stock in chocolate and cream livery but this was used for top express trains only in the BR period so would normally have had a Castle or King at the front.
Some good Hall photos here.
https://railway-photography.smugmug.com/GWRSteam-1/Collett-Locomotives/Collett-460-designs/Collet-Hall-4900-Class-4900695/Collett-Halls-Pre-1968
Jubilees can be found here.
https://railway-photography.smugmug.com/LMSSteam/Stanier-Locomotives/Jubilee-Class/Jubilee-Class-Pre-1968
So thanks to Newportnobby I will have a Crimson Jubilee and now need to decide on which cars to get which y'all have given me some good info on. I have put just about every crimson LMS coach on eBay on my watch list and am hitting the bigger UK hobby sites
Ah your modelling pre 48 ? LMS days
Farish's Stanier coaches in Crimson Lake livery would be the most appropriate. I am not entirely sure what would constitute a suitable rake.
Other vehicles that might be of interest are the Inspection Saloon (originally produced by the NGS but now part of the Farish range) and the Stove-R (also produced by the NGS).
(https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/images2/360/1014/30/gauge-society-dapol-ngs-lms-crimson_360_0f848fd91faf6cd0ca1a7787114b2a55.jpg)
Quote from: Steven B on May 04, 2020, 03:41:34 PM
Train formations are tricky. Both Hall and Jubilee were used on middle-long distance trains which were normally longer than the 3-4 you have space for. That said, I'd suggest:
BCK-SK-SK-BSK
or
SK-SK-CK-BSK
Further to my earlier suggestions:
BTK CK CK TK BTK (Nottingham to Manchester Central)
TK TK BTK CK BTK (Sheffield to Worcester)
BTK TK CK CK TK BTK (Sheffield to St Pancras)
TK TK BTK CK BTK (Derby to Bristol)
BTK CK TK BTK (Bradford to York)
BTK CK TK + BG parcels vans (St Pancras to Nottingham)
Personally, I'd get:
2x 374-825 Stanier Brake Third LMS Crimson Lake Coach
1x 374-840 Stanier Vestibule Third LMS Crimson Lake Coach
Unfortunately Farish don't appear to have done the composite in LMS colours (but they do it in BR maroon).
You could use a Farish 374-845 Stanier First Corridor LMS Crimson Lake to make up to a four coach train, or instead get two 374-840 and replace one of the brake thirds with a brake-first (374-830)
For some variety you could also add:
374-885 Stanier 50ft Full Brake LMS Crimson Lake
Alternatively, if you model it in LMS colours post preservation you can run with a rake of Mk1s in Blue/grey!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/13296226@N02/4693801673/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/13296226@N02/4693801673/)
Steven B.
Another possibility for limited space is a milk train. Milk trains ran from rural areas into London, picking up tankers as they went. Because the milk needed to arrive quickly before it went sour, express engines were often used and the train could be quite short for such a big loco.
LMS 4-6-0 Jubilee class No 5642 'Boscawen' passes Rugby No 5 Signal Box with a short train comprising milk van two coaches and a parcel van.
(https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/lnwr/rugby/station/lnwrrm873.jpg)
Quote from: Steven B on May 05, 2020, 09:56:31 AM
Alternatively, if you model it in LMS colours post preservation you can run with a rake of Mk1s in Blue/grey!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/13296226@N02/4693801673/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/13296226@N02/4693801673/)
Or as a West Coast Railway Company train with maroon MK1s/WCRC 374-213 and 374-214
Here's 45699 'Galatea' in LMS Crimson doing just that...........
(https://live.staticflickr.com/31337/49857805823_3171532da7_t.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iXLhDM)Jubilee Galatea 45699 on 'Fellsman' 21.8.18 (https://flic.kr/p/2iXLhDM) by Mick Hollyoake (https://www.flickr.com/photos/182878845@N04/), on Flickr
Was going to mention looking at one of your videos mick @Newportnobby (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264) , the only coach he would have fun with would be the roller blind on the support coach
Quote from: Karhedron on May 05, 2020, 10:03:14 AM
Another possibility for limited space is a milk train. Milk trains ran from rural areas into London, picking up tankers as they went. Because the milk needed to arrive quickly before it went sour, express engines were often used and the train could be quite short for such a big loco.
LMS 4-6-0 Jubilee class No 5642 'Boscawen' passes Rugby No 5 Signal Box with a short train comprising milk van two coaches and a parcel van.
(https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/lnwr/rugby/station/lnwrrm873.jpg)
That's a great photo, yet another example of an unusual consist.
Is the second vehicle a full brake? It looks like it has less windows.
Quote from: Karhedron on May 05, 2020, 10:03:14 AM
Quote from: emjaybee on May 05, 2020, 01:07:04 PM
(https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/lnwr/rugby/station/lnwrrm873.jpg)
Is the second vehicle a full brake? It looks like it has less windows.
I think so. I am not too hot on LMS vehicles (I am more of a GWR man ;) ) but it looks similar to the one offered by Farish.
(https://images.railsofsheffield.com/product-images.axd/374-885A.jpg)
The milk tanker looks like this one from Dapol.
(https://hattonsimages.blob.core.windows.net/products/NB031-PO02_3444652_Qty1_1.jpg)
Looks like an lms 50ft gangwayed brake van . Farish catalogue : 374885
@Karhedron (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=207) that's exactly the vehicle I was thinking. It just goes to show you can pretty much run what you like with anything, it's probably been done somewhere before in real life.
Thanks for the photo, it's rare to see a colour photo from that era that's not a 'company' promotional pic.
@crewearpley40 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3894) that's the vehicle in Karhedrons post.
Yes thanks @emjaybee (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=5604) was only helping by making a mention of the vehicle
Quote from: Steven B on May 05, 2020, 09:56:31 AM
Quote from: Steven B on May 04, 2020, 03:41:34 PM
Train formations are tricky. Both Hall and Jubilee were used on middle-long distance trains which were normally longer than the 3-4 you have space for. That said, I'd suggest:
BCK-SK-SK-BSK
or
SK-SK-CK-BSK
Further to my earlier suggestions:
BTK CK CK TK BTK (Nottingham to Manchester Central)
TK TK BTK CK BTK (Sheffield to Worcester)
BTK TK CK CK TK BTK (Sheffield to St Pancras)
TK TK BTK CK BTK (Derby to Bristol)
BTK CK TK BTK (Bradford to York)
BTK CK TK + BG parcels vans (St Pancras to Nottingham)
Personally, I'd get:
2x 374-825 Stanier Brake Third LMS Crimson Lake Coach
1x 374-840 Stanier Vestibule Third LMS Crimson Lake Coach
Unfortunately Farish don't appear to have done the composite in LMS colours (but they do it in BR maroon).
You could use a Farish 374-845 Stanier First Corridor LMS Crimson Lake to make up to a four coach train, or instead get two 374-840 and replace one of the brake thirds with a brake-first (374-830)
For some variety you could also add:
374-885 Stanier 50ft Full Brake LMS Crimson Lake
Alternatively, if you model it in LMS colours post preservation you can run with a rake of Mk1s in Blue/grey!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/13296226@N02/4693801673/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/13296226@N02/4693801673/)
Steven B.
I might have missed it but what is "TK"? Thanks for the help by the way
Quote from: Karhedron on May 05, 2020, 01:30:47 PMI think so. I am not too hot on LMS vehicles (I am more of a GWR man ;) ) but it looks similar to the one offered by Farish.
(https://images.railsofsheffield.com/product-images.axd/374-885A.jpg)
Quote from: crewearpley40 on May 05, 2020, 02:00:41 PM
Looks like an lms 50ft gangwayed brake van . Farish catalogue : 374885
Not quite... It is an LMS Full brake, but it's an earlier Period 2 type rather than the Period 3 'Stanier' type.
Give-aways are the full length footboards and it looks like panelled ends.
TK classified third class corridor coach. Number 2300 is at Severn valley railway
I decided to get an assortment of coaches that I found at a great price so I have the following Graham Farish cars coming:
374-830C
374-845C
374-847A
374-875
374-876
They might not be quite as accurate as the suggestions (thanks Steven B) but I like the way they look and they were at a good price. This will get me started until I can order more appropriately accurate cars once I figure out a route I want to model.
From all the pictures I have seen I assume the British passenger trains do not run a caboose?
Quote from: Pacecars on May 07, 2020, 08:02:11 PM
From all the pictures I have seen I assume the British passenger trains do not run a caboose?
We call them by their proper name of "Brake Van" or "Guards Van" over here ;)
A passenger train would have accommodation for the guard somewhere. It may be a separate Guards/Luggage vehicle such as the Full Brake discussed above or a section within a passenger vehicle.
Gotcha, thanks. I am still learning the "proper" terminology😜
I'd suggest either Farish 374-825B and/or 374-885A (the latter is not out yet)
You already have on order the 374-830C.
I like the looks of the 374-825B. I ordered it from Peter's Spares. Got the last one in stock. I think I have ordered more from the UK than I have from the USA!
Beware - I do like spending other people's money ;)
Quote from: Newportnobby on May 08, 2020, 09:36:10 AM
Beware - I do like spending other people's money ;)
LOL!
Quote from: Pacecars on May 08, 2020, 01:45:16 PM
Quote from: Newportnobby on May 08, 2020, 09:36:10 AM
Beware - I do like spending other people's money ;)
LOL!
It's true, he does.
But in fairness, we do like spending HIS money.
If my research is correct the Jubilee is set up for a 6 pin decoder. Which decoder should I be looking at and other than the decoder what else do I need to have sound?
Quote from: Pacecars on May 09, 2020, 12:16:14 AM
If my research is correct the Jubilee is set up for a 6 pin decoder. Which decoder should I be looking at and other than the decoder what else do I need to have sound?
The Jubilee referred to is Farish 372-477 if that helps provide best answers
Thanks for all the help. Tony Aldam in North Yorkshire is going to do it for me
Glad to see you're a steam addict. But if you're going pre-1948, why not go the whole hog and go pre-1923 when you can have a veritable kaleidoscope of colour. Build yourself a model of Carlisle Citadel circa 1920, and you can have:
London & North Western (blackberry black locomotives, plum & spilt milk coaches)
Midland (crimson lake locomotives, crimson lake coaches)
North Eastern (green locomotives, crimson lake coaches)
Maryport & Carlisle (green locomotives, teak coaches)
Caledonian (blue locomotives, purple & white coaches)
Glasgow & South Western (green locomotives, crimson lake coaches ... although if you build yourself a Manson Baltic tank, the boiler should be steel blue)
North British (umber / ochre / bronze green - take your pick - locomotives, crimson lake coaches)
Plus of course, some of the LNWR and NBR locomotives returning from France might still be wearing their ROD livery.
Yes, I know it's a pipe dream ... but the day when it might be possible to make a serious attempt at it is drawing ever closer. Look at the RTR offering:
LNWR "Prince of Wales" 4-6-0 in Blackberry Black from Union Mills
Midland 4F 0-6-0 in goods black livery from Bachmann Farish (in the Landship Train Pack)
4P 4-4-0 in Caledonian Livery from Graham Farish (OK ... so it's a Midland locomotive, but it looks the part)
Fairburn 2-6-4T in Caledonian livery from Bachmann Farish (again, not a correct prototype, but the Caley DID have some big 2-6-4Ts)
NER R class 4-4-0 from Union Mills
Get out your paint brush and you can have a 4P into its correct Midland livery in a jiffy
Caledonian livery old Graham Farish generic coaches are readily obtainable for a price
Peco make a Midland goods brake van, and Bachmann Farish have a forthcoming Midland 20 ton brake van (or if you don't want to wait you could repaint one of their LMS ones)
Locomotive kits are available (sometimes only on the second hand market) for:
LNWR "Prince of Wales tank" 4-6-2T (Langley)
Midland "Flatiron" 0-6-4T (ABS Beaver)
LNWR "Precurson" 4-4-0 (Graham Hughes ... although i have NEVER actually seen one of these)
NBR 0-6-0 and 4-4-0 types (Graham Hughes ... the 0-6-0 much more common than the 4-4-0, but still pretty rare)
NER P2 0-6-0 (Nu-cast)
NER 1001 class "Hippopotamus" long-boilered 0-6-0 (B H Enterprises)
Robinson 2-8-0 (both the LNWR and the Caley acquired some of these from the ROD after the war)
Caledonian 498 and 782 class 0-6-0T (both from Graham Hughes)
The Minitrix 2F 0-6-0T dock shunter can easily be "bashed" into a G&SW dock shunter; and the ABD Beaver kit for the HR banking tank can almost as easily be bashed into a G&SWR 0-6-2T
And then there's more and more 3D printed stuff becoming available all the time.
Mmmmmmmm ... just thinking about it gives me goose bumps ...
@emjaybee (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=5604) earlier you mentioned repainting Farish Jubilees in to crimson. I've Jubilee loco bodies and tender bodies in Crimson (factory production) have donor green Jubes for the chassis and are wondering how to paint the tender under frame and cylinders in to crimson with straw lining. May I ask you to post photos and information about how you sorted the chassis and cylinders?
Kind regards Fred
Quote from: Fredastaire on November 22, 2020, 01:36:59 PM
@emjaybee (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=5604) earlier you mentioned repainting Farish Jubilees in to crimson. I've Jubilee loco bodies and tender bodies in Crimson (factory production) have donor green Jubes for the chassis and are wondering how to paint the tender under frame and cylinders in to crimson with straw lining. May I ask you to post photos and information about how you sorted the chassis and cylinders?
Kind regards Fred
Alas, my talents do not lay in the loco repainting area.
I have a 'man' for that, although that sounds a tad odd, to elaborate, I use THE 'man' for that. The loco's I have had repainted have all been done by the great Ozymandias on this forum. Have a look at this thread...
https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=22566.1545 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=22566.1545)
In particular post #1557.