How many times do we say I wish Darish or Fapol would produce that particular loco/coach/wagon that has some special meaning to you - usually a bit on the nostalgic side. How many of us have eventually decided to scratch build, hack or bash the model of your choice, and rarely a manufacturer has produce that very item a year or so later, it's happened to me twice;I severely hacked a Dapol 14xx into an SR M7, which Dapol produced in time for the next TINGS, I also had a crude T9 way back, then UM came up with one - needless to say it was not the exact version I wanted so I made the cab and splashers narrower and used a Langley S15 tender body with Fleischmann tender drive
I've since scratch built a Drummond K10 4-4-0 and an Adams A12 0-4-2, and hacked a Nelson from a Jubilee, and played mix and match with Langley S15 and BHE N15 kits and various chassis to produce variations of other Urie and Maunsell 4-6-0s of classes H15, N15 and S15, also hacking another M7 - this time to an Adams T1
What are your attempts at "filling gaps" in what's available and what still remains in your wish lists?
Hi @Dorsetmike (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=2855)
On my list was the MK1 TPO. I created a rake using Robbie's coach sides and then GF released theirs.
Such is life.
Paddy
Interestingly, we had a poll in 2013 and fed the results back to Farish and Dapol (see attached)
Note how many have been manufactured and how close to the poll they were time wise
True, some do eventually appear but still despite the King Arthur and Nelson being in that list - and many other similar lists - there are still no SR 4-6-0s RTR and only two dated white metal kits, both of which rely on 1970s chassis. The King Arthur is intended to use the 1970s Farish black 5, driving wheels way too small and incorrect spacing, Duchess chassis was a little better, wheels near correct size but still incorrect spacing, when it first came out the best fit chassis wise was the Peco Jubilee but then you needed to find a suitable tender drive, the only one I found then was a Rivarossi NORD pacific.
The S15 uses the Fleischmann 7160, 7161 series chassis which is now silly money unless you can find a spares or repair on Ebay, added to which the watercart tender is only correct for less than half the class and then only from mid 1930s to mid 1950s, my solution to that is to use the BHE N15 tender kit with a UM drive with extra pair of wheels
May be it would be a good idea to have a new survey? Not just locos but rolling stock and accessories. My vote would be for a 2nd radius Setrack point from PECO.
Kind regards
Paddy
Quote from: Paddy on March 22, 2020, 07:26:39 AM
May be it would be a good idea to have a new survey? Not just locos but rolling stock and accessories. My vote would be for a 2nd radius Setrack point from PECO.
Kind regards
Paddy
Me too! I get on well with the present 1st radius Setrack points (five of them on my little layout) but I think 2nd radius (just like the Peco '00' ones) would be better. Maybe even with that clever new 'Unifrog' arrangement as well.
Best wishes.
John
Hi John ( @Train Waiting (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=6222) )
If PECO wanted to get really adventurous, then why not introduce a completely new range of Setrack based on their code 55 system. That might put the Poppy/Henry among the pigeons. :)
Sadly, I suspect this is but a pipe dream... :(
Kind regards
Paddy
Quote from: Paddy on March 22, 2020, 09:04:23 AM
If PECO wanted to get really adventurous
Proximity Alert! "Peco"/"adventurous" in same sentence :goggleeyes:
Hi Steve ( @tutenkhamunsleeping (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1490) )
Sadly, glaciers melt quicker than PECO move... I suppose they have been in business for a long time and one would assume successful? PECO must know the market better than anyone.
Recently, I am working my way through past NGS journals (dozens of them) and one thing that surprised me is the number of layouts that use Setrack and 1st radius points. I wonder if this is still the case or whether the N gauge community is/has moved to larger layouts with more generous curves and points?
Thinking about this, it is important. If the "majority" of N gauge modellers are building layouts that utilise 1st/2nd radius curves/points and the manufacturers are releasing models that need 2nd radius and above then this does not bode well. A large part of the market may end up being excluded from new RTR.
Kind regards
Paddy
Quote from: Paddy on March 22, 2020, 07:26:39 AM
May be it would be a good idea to have a new survey? Not just locos but rolling stock and accessories. My vote would be for a 2nd radius Setrack point from PECO.
Kind regards
Paddy
@Paddy (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=356)
My knowledge of rolling stock is very basic so I stuck with locos. RMWeb tend to have a more encompassing survey annually and maybe during the current situation it would be a timely escape from reality if they did one now.
A number of us updated the RMWeb wish list list for N gauge last year. It was a pretty dynamic effort given the number of promised models that came and went last year.
The stumbling point seemed to be who would host it on line.
If any of my colleagues involved in that valiant effort were available to comment further, that would be good:
@Karhedron (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=207) @NGS-PO (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=6239) @acko22 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=4166), Noel Lever, Nick Evans, Jon Lambert (Noel is on the other Forum and Nick and Jon I forgot their tags!).
Between Karhedron and myself, we got the SR and GWR sorted! He he.
Bob
I like this thread, and I like the inclusion of track (well played @Paddy (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=356))
Seeing as our new inside life actually hampers me building much, I am happy to escape by participating online.
So
I think the PECO Setrack situation is a little bit self-perpetuating. People start in the hobby, see the "starter set" Peco do and either get that and their chosen stock or get it with their first train set. Train sets in my day all came with 1st radius (not sure now), so by default the loco could handle it.
In recent years lots of new locos say "2nd Radius minimum", is it a coincidence Peco launched a 2nd radius starter set?
I personally wish I hand not used Setrack for my layout, but at the time it was all I had and I didn't want to invest more in something I had no idea would last as long as it has.
Speaking of "Specific Locos we like that we tackle and then turn up RTR"; I developed a small obsession with 47 145 and made it the subject of my first re-spray (there is a photo in my gallery, can't work out how to link just now).
I am pleased with the outcome and no sign of a Bachmann one just yet. However, as I was progressing with the project I saw a version done by Mercig on his stand at that years TINGS. Not sure if motivation or not :'(
Skyline2uk
Hi @Skyline2uk (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1081)
I believe Farish still use R1 curves in their train sets - not the PECO track but their own which is very similar. They also have R1 points which again are almost an exact copy of PECOs. If Bachmann have a range of N gauge set track available (somewhere in the World) then it is a shame they do not release it here (if it contains a wider selection of point work etc. I believe Bachmann do have a track system similar to Kato/Tomix as well (something like EaziTrack?).
It is frustrating though as the PECO Setrack range is now rather good apart from the lack of R2 points and cross-overs. This one change would allow people to follow the standard geometry of their OO counterparts.
As for locos, I really want an XP64 Class 47 (D1733) in original form. I have toyed with the idea of getting a professional repaint (even went as far as getting a quote from Mercig), or having a go myself. The donor 47 has been purchased and is ready to go. I just have a feeling that GF may release one as Collector's Club and/or Rep special at some point. Bachmann did release their OO 47 in this livery.
Kind regards
Paddy
I have built many kits in my time that are now (or in a couple of cases have been) RTR
Rebuilt MN - Langley on Britannia chassis. Shame I messed this one up as it had great potential.
Fairburn 2-6-4T - Peco Wills on Arnold Chassis - looked like a brick!
Class 03 - Beaver and Minitrix- unsuccessful (valve gear issue on dock tank chassis)
Class 24 - Fox resin kit on Farish 25 chassis. Very characterful and similar look to the current model except no lights.
Class 33 - Hacked from Minitrix 27. Passable in its day.
Class 35 - Peco Wills - actually one of the best whitemetal kits for capturing the feel of the loco.
Class 35 - Fox resin kit on Farish 25 chassis. Actually not as good as the Peco version IMHO.
Class 44/45/46 PD Marsh on Farish 20 chassis. Whatever were they thinking of. Second worst kit ever, after the MTK class 52. Keeping those articulated bogies on the rails was impossible.
Class 50 - Anbrico - not a bad look to the loco - just that awful chassis with wiper pickups.
Class 52 - MTK - the worst kit ever made. Put a lead brick on a crap Lifelike chassis and watch it move - NOT!!!
Class 73 - BHE on Bachmann Spectrum chassis - successful. Actually one of my favourites. Faster in one direction than the other though!
Does anyone else remember these kits with as much affection?
Bob
Hi Bob ( @Bob G (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1517) )
That is another thing that surprised me as well from looking at older NGS journals - so many of the models people had built (locos, coaches, wagons etc.) are now available RTR. We are in a golden age for N gauge.
Kind regards
Paddy
like Bob G I've done a few kits in the past.
Class 24 - Silver Fox. Bought as a bad paint job so stripped and repainted and detailed, on 25 chassis. I rather like it.
Hymeks - Peco. Got two of them. They differ from each other in the number of parts and construction. One is on a heavyweight Rivarossi chassis. OK but no challenge to the Dapol model
Class 46 - P&D Marsh. Motorised mine with a GF 33 block and 40 bogies. Goes OK.
Class 47 - white metal kit on Lifelike chassis. realised it was 2mm so sold it on. Can't remember manufacturer.
Class 50 - Anbrico. Another botched paint job in erroneous green. Stripped and repainted. Looks the part but like Bob not impressed with the chassis.
Western - MTK. Yuk. Bought when I was new to N and didn't know better back in 1980!!! Still got it as a museum piece.
Class 56 - P&D Marsh. On GF 47 chassis. The fronts looked totally wrong - windows too low, lights in wrong place etc. So a rework with filler and plasticard. Side grilles are a bit heavy but it looks better than the GF model that inevitably came out as soon as I finished it.
Happy days
Norman
I've also kit built quite a lot in my time, mainly because there was no RTR version when I built them;
Cl37-Langley on a modified Rivarossi chassis. Never did get it to run properly.
Cl04-Beaver/Minitrix-still got this, dcc'd, still runs! Height compromise to get motor in cab.
Cl46-P+D Marsh; mine was bought as RTR through them. Don't know who actually built it; chassis was a lengthened Likelike American loco, which sagged badly at the joint after time passed. I later rebuilt it with a cl40 chassis-I wrote an article in the 'Journal'. Still useable.
Cl47-likewise, RTR through P+D Marsh. Also Lifelike chassis. The body was actually quite good.
B1s, Langley/Farish
N2 and N7-likewise. The two tanks still run dcc'd. I've just finished building one of Stevie dc's N2s, and what a superb model.
D16 'Claud'-BH Enterprises
Cl24-Langley/Farish. These ran on narrowed cl 25 chassis, again I wrote an article for the Journal
Cl15-two Kingdom kits, one Parkwood, Farish chassis
Cl16-Parkwood/Farish
B2-Langley/Farish. Must finish this one day, I've only had it over ten years! Will probably get Union Mills tender drive, if it does get finished.
K3-Foxhunter/Farish/Union Mills tender drive
J39-Foxhunter/Farish; has the small Group Standard tender as opposed to the current Farish J39 which has the large tender
Austerity 'Consolidation'-Foxhunter/Farish
A5-?/Farish
Cl 27-Taylor/Farish
Cl104-Ntrains/Electra/but on latest Farish dcc 101 chassis
Kerr/Farish Fairburn tank
J17-modified 'Claud' boiler and cab, Farish 4F chassis
J70-BHE/farish DMU motor bogie. Dcc'd and also fitted with B+Bs.
Ransomes 49T breakdown crane
I've also built a fair number of Ultima coach kits, both LMS, SR and LNER; Etched Pixels coaches and NPCCS; Society Horse boxes; MTK coaches; Fleetline BYs; and a fair number of wagon kits, including Foxhunter, Society, BHE, and others. Some of the kits were built and adapted into other vehicles, but many are now superseded by RTR.
I'd still like some ex LNER steam locos, including the J67/69 (I'm still convinced that Farish's was J67-look at the safety valves) and Derby lightweight twins and cravens DMUs.
Martyn
Later: forgot the Langley BR 4MT mogul.
Quote from: martyn on March 22, 2020, 06:19:59 PM
N2 and N7-likewise. The two tanks still run dcc'd. I've just finished building one of Stevie dc's N2s, and what a superb model.
D16 'Claud'-BH Enterprises
Cl15-two Kingdom kits, one Parkwood, Farish chassis
Cl16-Parkwood/Farish
J39-Foxhunter/Farish; has the small Group Standard tender as opposed to the current Farish J39 which has the large tender
Austerity 'Consolidation'-Foxhunter/Farish
A5-?/Farish
Cl104-Ntrains/Electra/but on latest Farish dcc 101 chassis
J17-modified 'Claud' boiler and cab, Farish 4F chassis
Ransomes 49T breakdown crane
I've also built a fair number of Ultima coach kits, both LMS, SR and LNER; Etched Pixels coaches and NPCCS; Society Horse boxes; MTK coaches; Fleetline BYs; and a fair number of wagon kits, including Foxhunter, Society, BHE, and others. Some of the kits were built and adapted into other vehicles, but many are now superseded by RTR.
Sorry Martyn
Theses dont count because the OP said replaced by RTR versions.
I didn't include all my Parkwood class 15/16 or prototype 10800 models, for instance, or all my ex MTK DMUs/EMUs now produced by BHE.
But if you want nice sharp versions of Derby lightweights or Cravens DMUs just look to Shapeways...
Best
Bob
Quote from: tunneroner61 on March 22, 2020, 03:08:37 PM
Class 46 - P&D Marsh. Motorised mine with a GF 33 block and 40 bogies. Goes OK.
I still have my Marsh peak built with the white metal bogies. It's great because it's heavy and unlike the BachFarr one it can do stupid sharp curves so is great for microlayouts.
Also kit built 03/04/14/24 and 25/1 that have come out RTR, 26, 27 and 33 likewise. I even own a TPM class 31 which was a nice model if slightly out of scale to fit the chassis. Also a kit built Deltic prototype. I sort of have a terrible white metal HST, but the previous owner sawed it up and turned it into an equally bad class 89 !
Some of the kit built stuff is still needed despite promises or kickstarter attempts - 17/21/29 and some is still just better - like the TPM class 87, or as good and better running (TPM 60 on lifelike chassis).
I also acquired a boxload of old white metal kettle kits which I've mostly built for the fun of it. I was going to start sticking some of the built ones up for sale but that may have to wait till summer 8(. Some of those have now appeared RTR like the pannier (I have a kit built one on the minitrix 0-6-0 chassis) but a lot of them have not.
Hi Bob.
Forgot the 'replaced by RTR.'
And I appreciate that you have had to edit my list, but the Claud is now Union Mills, the Foxhunter J39 came in two versions, one of which is now RTR : Austerity now by Farish :and nearly all the Ultima coach kits are now RTR (mainly Stainers, but also some others), and the Ransomes crane by Osbournes.
Also, some of the Foxhunter, Society, Parkwood, and other makes of wagons are now RTR, and the Society horseboxes.
In fact, not long after Farish started new designs, as opposed to refurbished Poole designs, I had a theory that they trying to compete with the kits being produced at the time!
I'll try and keep closer to the OP next time.
When Dave/Southerngooner and I used to provide some of the rolling stock for Steve Wright's 'Linford Junction' about 25 years ago, we had quite a lot of stock, both locos, coaches, and wagons that was unusual because it was kit built, and not, at that time, common, on layouts. For instance, Dave built a prototype Deltic: but many of these have now been replaced by RTR and hence are not now so unusual on an exhibition layout
Martyn
Quote from: martyn on March 22, 2020, 07:28:06 PM
I'll try and keep closer to the OP next time.
Martyn
Please don't. I hate people who think the OP's thread is immutable :) and I wasn't very good editing either!
Quote from: EtchedPixels on March 22, 2020, 07:21:44 PM
I still have my Marsh peak built with the white metal bogies. It's great because it's heavy and unlike the BachFarr one it can do stupid sharp curves so is great for microlayouts.
That's a scary thought - a Peak on a micro layout.
One think I do note is that everyone has had similar experiences of good and bad kits. I wonder if they would have been withdrawn sooner if we had social media when the MTK Western was released, for example...
Bob
Quote from: martyn on March 22, 2020, 07:28:06 PM
In fact, not long after Farish started new designs, as opposed to refurbished Poole designs, I had a theory that they trying to compete with the kits being produced at the time!
Same with the N Gauge Society.
However if you think about it the RTR folks went with for the highest volume best return stuff and the kit makers tended to produce a mix of things that were most demanded and things that they personally wanted. It was kind of inevitable that the RTR vendors duplicated kits, and that has been going on since long before Bachmann.
I don't worry too much. The SECR set was a bit of a surprise but I don't see Bachmann doing lots of pregrouping or filling in all the unusual coaches. In fact if anything I'd expect their focus to slowly shift more modern simply because peak nostalgia moves. Right now it's end of BR Maroon but it'll soon be BR Blue. When I was a kid heritage railway stock was always big four colours (although often not big four stock), now it's mostly steam era BR colours. It will be interesting to see what happens - BR blue modelling as peak nostalgia is one thing but real steam has a magic that's a bit different to a Deltic.
Alan
Quote from: Bob G on March 22, 2020, 07:31:08 PM
Quote from: martyn on March 22, 2020, 07:28:06 PM
I'll try and keep closer to the OP next time.
Martyn
Please don't. I hate people who think the OP's thread is immutable :) and I wasn't very good editing either!
Quote from: EtchedPixels on March 22, 2020, 07:21:44 PM
I still have my Marsh peak built with the white metal bogies. It's great because it's heavy and unlike the BachFarr one it can do stupid sharp curves so is great for microlayouts.
That's a scary thought - a Peak on a micro layout.
I plead prototype for anything (http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/uploads/7/6/8/3/7683812/y40-roskear-branch-foundry-road-copyright-alan-harris-collection-used-26th-february-2018_orig.jpg)
(Roskear Branch)
@Bob G (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1517) I didn't limit myself to items I'd built which have later appeared RTR, only the 14xx -> M7 hack and T9 have appeared RTR, the rest A12, K10, & Nelson are still awaited and the Urie/Maunsell 4-6-0 variations are still only variations on Langley and BHE kits.
Quote from: Dorsetmike on March 22, 2020, 09:23:29 PM
@Bob G (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1517) I didn't limit myself to items I'd built which have later appeared RTR, only the 14xx -> M7 hack and T9 have appeared RTR, the rest A12, K10, & Nelson are still awaited and the Urie/Maunsell 4-6-0 variations are still only variations on Langley and BHE kits.
Sorry Mike.
That's how I read the first sentence. But like everyone else and his virus it transmuted into something else by the end of the post.
Never mind.
Sorry if I sounded a bit of a bully.
Bob
It's not just Locomotives,
Some years ago I got the kit and other bits to build an EM gauge coal wagon, like the 4 the family owned at one time..
just nearing finishing when..
Wessex wagons produced one, between me and my Dad we bought quite a few of the run of about 100, and they were sent round the world to various family members.
Perhaps I should get the bits to make one in N,...
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/89/6067-230320090147.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=89372)