:helpneededsign:
What I'm really looking for, I think, is a website that will let me browse the full range of available models from manufacturers such as Graham Farish and Dapol. Bonus points if it sorts them by era, or colour.
I'm interested in putting together a historical British Rail passenger train, and I'm finding it to be less easy than I'd like.
What I'm looking for is a group of coaches that would provide a reasonably plausible passenger train of, say, four to seven coaches, from 1950 (or earlier) through to 1970 or so (i.e. not blue/grey). On the one hand there's a question of historical accuracy, but that actually bothers me less than whether I like the look of the coaches together. I really don't like the idea of mixing different colour schemes.
So far I've been looking at Rails of Sheffield, and I'm not sure if I'm seeing everything that's available. Their categories seem to be a little odd. i mean, I find items if I search for "crimson", that don't show up if I look for coaches. :hmmm:
So! Where do you go?
Have you had a look at the Hattons Formation Guides group in Facebook?
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2242216175800967/?__tn__=HH-R (https://www.facebook.com/groups/2242216175800967/?__tn__=HH-R)
Any coaches between 1966 and 1970 would have been blue/grey.
Are you modelling a particular region ? Location ? Is it a cross country or one which ran on a particular region ? That interests you.
Quote from: Bealman on March 13, 2020, 04:44:19 AM
Any coaches between 1966 and 1970 would have been blue/grey.
There would have been an increasing mix of blue/grey and maroon from ca. 1964, pretty sure I've seen pictures of blue/grey rakes with the odd maroon coach in the early 1970s too.
Davidheyscollection.com maybe worth a look
thanks @crewearpley40 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3894) for that link, think i am going to spend hours on that site.
Plenty of photos which may help identify what one is looking for.
@Sheffie (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=8409)
I doubt you'll find a source of available models but you could use this site to find reference numbers and then seek a source of it/them.............
http://ngauge.org.uk/index.php (http://ngauge.org.uk/index.php)
Quote from: Bealman on March 13, 2020, 04:44:19 AM
Any coaches between 1966 and 1970 would have been blue/grey.
Any
newly-built or coaches repainted between 1966 and 1970 would have been blue/grey. There were still coaches in Maroon up to c1973/4...
Here's another couple of web sites to browse:
John Turner: https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/)
UKrailwaypics: https://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/ (https://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/)
During the late 50s and early 60s as others have said there would be many mixes of liveries in trains.
If you get them there are many books with colour pictures for your period eg
- BR in Colour books by various authors
the Rail Portfolio series again various authors (but are diesel books)
Steam on the 'take your pick'
all published by Ian Allan who took them over from Janes
Of course there are many other publishers - Atlantic spring to mind.
It seems to me that you might try searching for Mk 1 coaches as that best matches what you are looking for.
Particularly into the 60s and 70s trains ran with a mish mash of coaches but, to my eye, it's hard to create that in model form as it just doesn't look right.
If you want matching rakes then I'd go for blood and custard or maroon. The other main colours are chocolate and cream bit these mainly stayed on the Western Region and green which largely remained on Southern metals.
If it's ubiquitous you are after then blood and custard or maroon MK1s are for you.
If you want a rake of 6 or 7 go for maybe one Ist class, five 2nd class and a brake. And it's corridor stock you are after not suburban.
Batch production means that you'll never find all coach types listed in one place other than in a catalogue (paper or webpage). At any one time you might find first class and brake-seconds easily, but be unable to find second opens for example.
If you're aiming to replicate real trains then there's little better than learning to distinguish between the different coach types and then studying photos, videos and carriage working books (many scans of the later are available via the BRCoachingStock IO group, or on eBay).
Steven B.
Quote from: Sheffie on March 13, 2020, 01:02:09 AM
:helpneededsign:
What I'm really looking for, I think, is a website that will let me browse the full range of available models from manufacturers such as Graham Farish and Dapol. Bonus points if it sorts them by era, or colour.
Most of them are more easily found on ebay IMHO. A lot of stuff is batch produced so if you didn't but a brake coach in the right year you missed it and so on.
Quote
I'm interested in putting together a historical British Rail passenger train, and I'm finding it to be less easy than I'd like.
What I'm looking for is a group of coaches that would provide a reasonably plausible passenger train of, say, four to seven coaches, from 1950 (or earlier) through to 1970 or so (i.e. not blue/grey). On the one hand there's a question of historical accuracy, but that actually bothers me less than whether I like the look of the coaches together. I really don't like the idea of mixing different colour schemes.
That depends a lot on the location and period. In 1950 it would have been mostly coaches from the big four companies and in a mix of British Rail and old liveries. A lot of those disappeared quite rapidly after the war as they'd been through wartime and many would have been scrapped during the war had there not been one. In the early part of your period they were building new coaches to the big four designs but not for long.
The mark 1 British Rail coaches started to appear in 1951 and took about a decade to displace almost all the older stuff. Many short local trains also of course turned into multiple-units in this period instead. By 1970 only a tiny number of older vehicles remained (eg a tiny number of Gresley buffet cars) except as parcels stock. It was a very much a period where the corporate obsession (not just in rail) was corporate branding, total standardisation. It was the time when having all your employees using corporate brand pens and paper, driving corporate brand vehicles, using corporate brand shipping materials etc was the height of 'modern' and 'progress'.
(Someone once described the British Rail colour scheme as 'if it moves paint it blue')
I guess one challenge therefore is that 1950 and 1965 look completely different!
Region also changes it somewhat. My memories are more early 1970s but typical cross country formations by then were
BrakeSecond - Second - First - Buffet (or one of the nasty mini-cafeteria ones) - Second (sometimes Brakes at each end)
other formations for shorter trains were things like
BrakeSecond - Second - Composite - Second - BrakeSecond
London originating trains tended to have all the first class at the London end but not normally the front coach (because even in 1970s diesel days the front coach would stink of oil and fumes).
A lot of shorter trains didn't have catering. Most people who ate on the ones that did wished they hadn't. Anyone remember all the British Rail pork pie jokes ?
Alan