Hi guys,
I think I have a problem. :D
Every time I start a layout I get excited.
Every time I start I see another layout/idea I like or that inspires me.
But, I start to think about changing my layout because of said inspiration.
As a result, this stalls my progress.
This repeats on a nearly monthly basis... and it drives me to distraction!
Am I the only one, or is this perfectly normal and I should just deal with it?
I've certainly known people who manage to build a new exhibition layout pretty much every year, whereas others plan everything to the nth degree and then take years to build it. I have friends who tend to change their track plans from time to time.
If you're the sort who likes to create a layout and run it for a while then tire of it and want to change the design then maybe a track system such as Kato Unitrack suits best as it's designed for frequent assembly and disassembly. Leave the static scenery etc. until you've done that to the point of settling on a design that fulfills your desires.
Quote from: Ted on February 15, 2020, 05:31:01 PM
is this perfectly normal and I should just deal with it?
This is perfectly normal and you should just deal with it. :)
Quote from: ntpntpntp on February 15, 2020, 05:37:10 PM
If you're the sort who likes to create a layout and run it for a while then tire of it and want to change the design then maybe a track system such as Kato Unitrack suits best as it's designed for frequent assembly and disassembly. Leave the static scenery etc. until you've done that to the point of settling on a design that fulfills your desires.
The problem is, the design that fulfils my desire is far more complex each time!
I started with a big 8ft loop end of 2018 and scrapped it after a month of work. No offence to big loop owners but it just wasn't for me, felt too 'train set' like.
A year later I started building a mini 30x60 TMD area to hone my skills. This is good and I can easily use it as a diorama once finished.
But I've been eyeing an 8x7ft L-space in an empty spare bedroom. It would be a big jump because I'm thinking end to end - but on two levels - so the loop is hidden below and everything resides under the L-shaped scene.
Then it starts running away from me, because there are doodles of cement plants, stations, container yards, TMD and... well, you know the drill as per my first post.
I'm also really particular about things, so if I do something that isn't perfect I scrap it and start over.
Yes, I'm my own worst enemy! :wave:
of course we are mad. it is what keeps us sane.
Quote from: Ted on February 15, 2020, 05:44:36 PM
The problem is, the design that fulfils my desire is far more complex each time!
Unfortunately that's a problem which afflicts many modellers, and usually results in over-ambitious projects which are abandoned before completion when the builder becomes disheartened with the whole thing.
There is a lot to be said for "less is more", and possibly even a phased approach where sections are completed to a reasonable degree before embarking on the next.
I've come round more to the idea of building modules to a standard end template which can be built with different themes then mixed and matched together. I doubt I'll ever build another stand-alone complete layout now. When modules are all built by one person they naturally have a consistent style and skill level rather than the rather varied collections sometimes seen brought together at shows and which used to be what put me off the idea.
Quote from: ntpntpntp on February 15, 2020, 06:02:23 PM
Quote from: Ted on February 15, 2020, 05:44:36 PM
The problem is, the design that fulfils my desire is far more complex each time!
Unfortunately that's a problem which afflicts many modellers, and usually results in over-ambitious projects which are abandoned before completion when the builder becomes disheartened with the whole thing.
There is a lot to be said for "less is more", and possibly even a phased approach where sections are completed to a reasonable degree before embarking on the next.
I've come round more to the idea of building modules to a standard end template which can be built with different themes then mixed and matched together. I doubt I'll ever build another stand-alone complete layout now. When modules are all built by one person they naturally have a consistent style and skill level rather than the rather varied collections sometimes seen brought together at shows and which used to be what put me off the idea.
Is this like my 30x60 but many of them seamlessly joined together?
So you build a bit, then another, connect them. Build another bit if you so wish?
Quote from: Ted on February 15, 2020, 06:06:57 PM
So you build a bit, then another, connect them. Build another bit if you so wish?
Yep. If the template is for a through line then you can create a couple of loop boards to complete the circuit so you can run roundy roundy if desired.
I originally started building modular boards to go along the front of my main stand-alone layout, in order to be able to take it to Germany and connect in with a huge multinational modular setup. In order to be able to at least run something on those boards when stand-alone at other shows I created two fiddleyard boxes with an automated shuttle unit.
The modular boards and fiddleyards together with the main layout, at Chatham in 2007
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/87/5885-150220182443.jpeg)
The modular boards by themselves, at N Gauge Southeast in 2019 (My fellow operator looking a little bored as the automation was working correctly !)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/85/5885-151219152931.jpeg)
I used to have that problem when I was a kid - I'd start building a branchline layout, then a month later I'd rip it up because I wanted a double track mainline, then a few weeks after that it would all be in a box under my bed and I'd have started on a 009 layout! I'm just getting back into model railways now and taking my time to plan exactly what I want. I want to model the station that once stood at the end of our garden in mid Wales. Problem is I keep buying totally unsuitable stock! I've got a wishlist of prototypical locos to buy, but then I keep getting distracted by eBay 'bargains' and suddenly find that instead of buying a jinty I've just bought a silver-grey A4 or an LBSCR liveried terrier which will require a radical rethink of my layout if I want to run them!
Quote from: ntpntpntp on February 15, 2020, 06:21:32 PM
The modular boards by themselves, at N Gauge Southeast in 2019 (My fellow operator looking a little bored as the automation was working correctly !)
Hah, I was about to say if that's you, you don't appear to be enjoying yourself! :D
Quote from: TalyllynJon on February 15, 2020, 06:42:39 PM
I used to have that problem when I was a kid - I'd start building a branchline layout, then a month later I'd rip it up because I wanted a double track mainline, then a few weeks after that it would all be in a box under my bed and I'd have started on a 009 layout! I'm just getting back into model railways now and taking my time to plan exactly what I want. I want to model the station that once stood at the end of our garden in mid Wales. Problem is I keep buying totally unsuitable stock! I've got a wishlist of prototypical locos to buy, but then I keep getting distracted by eBay 'bargains' and suddenly find that instead of buying a jinty I've just bought a silver-grey A4 or an LBSCR liveried terrier which will require a radical rethink of my layout if I want to run them!
Yes, I think I've got nearly 20 locos now, many are sound chipped too... and yet, no layout! :help:
Quote from: Ted on February 15, 2020, 07:09:28 PM
Quote from: ntpntpntp on February 15, 2020, 06:21:32 PM
The modular boards by themselves, at N Gauge Southeast in 2019 (My fellow operator looking a little bored as the automation was working correctly !)
Hah, I was about to say if that's you, you don't appear to be enjoying yourself! :D
Actually we both said afterward how nice and relaxing a show it was, a bit like going fishing maybe ? :D
Yup, mad as a box of frogs you are, just like the rest of us.
Build yourself a nice simple layout where you can watch trains go by and hone your skills, leaving room for expansion as your skills/desires advance.
It is much nicer to be able to do all the scenic work, building, painting etc when there are trains running, it provides modelling impetus.
Get something, anything down and start enjoying you hobby rather than mega procrastination. And remember, Rule 1 applies ;) :thumbsup:
The bit I most enjoy about it all is the scenery construction which is what you'll never get to if you're continuously planning. So like Lawrence suggests, build something then decide whether planning is what turns you on.
Webbo
The celebrated Ian Futers has turned out like zillions of layouts in his lifetime, and continues to do so, as the December RM documents.
My layout began with a terminus blatantly copied from my hero Peter Denny's Leighton Buzzard. However I had no idea where it was going after that.
It grew haphazardly, and there are many mistakes.
In contrast to Webbo's advice above,
Get the plan correct to start with! :thumbsup:
Having said that, it's probably better to get started, and enjoy the build. :beers:
Dunno if I'm moderately atypical on this, or just total proof of 'the rule'!
I started building a small layout to start with, because that's what you do. I wasn't interested in it, because I didn't want a small layout, so it never got anywhere at all. So when I had space I built a bigger one (12x3), which I enjoyed. It didn't actually progress to scenics because I got distracted by running trains, wiring up all the points, then handbuilding track and relaying it and so on. Then a couple of years ago we decided to move house, so I stopped progressing anything which would be irretrievable and was content running trains around.
After a couple of false starts for various reasons we are now going to move house in the next couple of months (once our vendor finds somewhere, grumble grumble), and I'm going to have a bigger space, which I fully plan to put an even bigger layout in. It will take a very long time, I realise, but that's ok, because the end result will be something I will enjoy. I'd sooner spend longer on something I have an interest in, and I certainly enjoy the planning. I'm much happier doing this than quickly progressing on something which doesn't interest me. I'm never going to be a "one layout a year" sort of chap, and I'm alright with that!
I'm in Templot right now planning it, in fact!
Thanks for the input chaps, it sounds like this is 'prototypical' of many modellers.
I'm trying to fix the issues that were slowing me down before, one was not having a dedicated space. That mean having to unfurl my modelling stuff and tidy-up at the end of the day, this was annoying and felt like dead time.
That's one tick then!
Secondly, I spent a whole week doing this and tried to convince myself I enjoyed it:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/82/6946-121019221313.jpeg)
I did however, learn. Which is important. I also - think - I over-engineered that, it's only a 60x30cm diorama!
Thirdly, I spent 8 hours doing this (which I know is a lot) and thoroughly enjoyed it:
(https://i.ibb.co/xmLK9mj/CL25.png)
I enjoy the weathering and details, so I'm going to get an airbrush setup as this will improve things further. Especially on scenic stuff. I like grime and nuances!
Another thing to consider is that each time I lay track I get better of course, and that very much goes for the electronics. The electrics really slowed me down at first - this is all new to me!
My first ever project was [successfully] adding sound to a Class 08 shunter - so I don't do things by halves...
Everything in your post looks awesome to me buddy.
:thumbsup: :beers:
The basic track on my layout was laid in 1982 but it has had lots of modifications to the fiddle yard ,and a yard with turntable fueling points for steam and diesel and an engine shed and a branchline added over the years ,I still have lots of scenic stuff to do and my daughter has bought me a house to go on the layout which now means a drive ,footpath and a garden and fencing to do once the weather gets warmer it costs too much to run the super ser gas fires just for me They only go on when I have visitors .
If I was starting again I would have gone for a fourtrack mainline and passing loops in the station but that would be to difficult to change now so I will live with what I've got ,in fact I enjoy doing the scenery as much as running trains ,if I have any visitors I often leave them to run the layout while I do some work on the scenery .I have allways said it's the scenery that turns a train set into a Model Railway .
Bob Tidbury
Quote from: Bob Tidbury on February 16, 2020, 11:40:16 AM
The basic track on my layout was laid in 1982 but it has had lots of modifications to the fiddle yard ,and a yard with turntable fueling points for steam and diesel and an engine shed and a branchline added over the years ,I still have lots of scenic stuff to do and my daughter has bought me a house to go on the layout which now means a drive ,footpath and a garden and fencing to do once the weather gets warmer it costs too much to run the super ser gas fires just for me They only go on when I have visitors .
If I was starting again I would have gone for a fourtrack mainline and passing loops in the station but that would be to difficult to change now so I will live with what I've got ,in fact I enjoy doing the scenery as much as running trains ,if I have any visitors I often leave them to run the layout while I do some work on the scenery .I have allways said it's the scenery that turns a train set into a Model Railway .
Bob Tidbury
Sorry Bob, you're going to hate me for saying this but, 82 was my birth year! :D
You sound very a patient man.
And noted on the
"If I was starting again I would have gone for a fourtrack mainline and passing loops" comment. I too have been playing with ideas around 2 fast, 2 freight, as the main run.
I've set myself a target of finishing the diorama first before 'allowing' myself to start anything bigger!
There's a lot to be said for track systems such as Kato Unitrack, which make it possible to play around with various permutations to get an idea of what "works" for you, without having to fret over how you hex your frog juices etc.
The great thing about modern N gauge is that if you know you want to model Lower Wibbleton Junction as it was on a wet spring Tuesday in 1963 with scale sleeper spacing and something approaching realistic rail height, you have options; if you want to run trains round and round for a while until you known what you want without committing to scenery and point motor locations, you also also have options.
Don't worry bob.when the green signal is illuminated by Your Secretary aka Val I'm sure we can help turn a boxed house into a miniature and beautiful property
Quote from: Ted on February 16, 2020, 10:55:55 AM
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/82/6946-121019221313.jpeg)
Ted, are those the Megapoints servo mounts? If so would you recommend them?
Quote from: Trainfish on February 16, 2020, 02:38:20 PM
Quote from: Ted on February 16, 2020, 10:55:55 AM
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/82/6946-121019221313.jpeg)
Ted, are those the Megapoints servo mounts? If so would you recommend them?
They are indeed.
Vs trying to mount with aluminium U channels, yes I certainly do recommend them.
A few dabs of superglue and they're ready to go, plenty strong enough too and easy to work with.
I threw myself in the deep end with the electronics, having never done any of this. Servos, triple points, frog relays, megacontrollers etc. It was a steep learning curve that I'm now - thankfully - over! ;D
Quote from: Ted on February 16, 2020, 02:45:08 PM
Quote from: Trainfish on February 16, 2020, 02:38:20 PM
Ted, are those the Megapoints servo mounts? If so would you recommend them?
They are indeed.
Vs trying to mount with aluminium U channels, yes I certainly do recommend them.
A few dabs of superglue and they're ready to go, plenty strong enough too and easy to work with.
I threw myself in the deep end with the electronics, having never done any of this. Servos, triple points, frog relays, megacontrollers etc. It was a steep learning curve that I'm now - thankfully - over! ;D
I have some U channels, both aluminium and plastic but haven't used them yet. I saw those mounts the other week and almost bought some, now I think I will. I also have the Megapoints sytem with 4 expansion boards so have a lot of servos to fit over time :goggleeyes:
EDIT: Just ordered the servo mounts along with button cables and route processor :thumbsup:
Quote from: Trainfish on February 16, 2020, 02:54:53 PM
Quote from: Ted on February 16, 2020, 02:45:08 PM
Quote from: Trainfish on February 16, 2020, 02:38:20 PM
Ted, are those the Megapoints servo mounts? If so would you recommend them?
They are indeed.
Vs trying to mount with aluminium U channels, yes I certainly do recommend them.
A few dabs of superglue and they're ready to go, plenty strong enough too and easy to work with.
I threw myself in the deep end with the electronics, having never done any of this. Servos, triple points, frog relays, megacontrollers etc. It was a steep learning curve that I'm now - thankfully - over! ;D
I have some U channels, both aluminium and plastic but haven't used them yet. I saw those mounts the other week and almost bought some, now I think I will. I also have the Megapoints sytem with 4 expansion boards so have a lot of servos to fit over time :goggleeyes:
I've yet to find a technique for installation - quite fiddly to get right. You can of course adjust the servo, but it doesn't fixed a misaligned servo and point!
My original plan had 32 points and servos... I'm glad I down-sized for my first attempt. :smiley-laughing:
About your original question: lots of modellers have this.
I have three unfinished layouts (n gauge, 2mm scale and h0) :-\
Have you ever heard about the TOMA concept of MRH Magazine?
This is the original idea:
http://mrhpub.com/2013-05-may/land/files/assets/basic-html/index.html#page151 (http://mrhpub.com/2013-05-may/land/files/assets/basic-html/index.html#page151)
Which developed into the TOMA concept:
http://mrhpub.com/2017-08-aug/online/?page=22 (http://mrhpub.com/2017-08-aug/online/?page=22)
Quite interesting and you can always change your plans along the way.
I prefer the U channel to the servo mounts. Find it easier to install them.
Hi Ted,
My solution to this problem was to model a real location. Doing that you are constrained by the prototype. Only certain moves are possible, dependent upon the track layout and signalling. My problem is I still feel the need to collect stock that isn't suitable for the location modelled, but it will run on my new layout, If I ever get around to building it!
Cheers
Quote from: Ingleborough on March 01, 2020, 03:43:07 PM
Hi Ted,
My solution to this problem was to model a real location. Doing that you are constrained by the prototype. Only certain moves are possible, dependent upon the track layout and signalling. My problem is I still feel the need to collect stock that isn't suitable for the location modelled, but it will run on my new layout, If I ever get around to building it!
Cheers
I think you are entirely right! :thumbsup:
I've been looking at Shirebrook (late 80's) in awe. https://www.flickr.com/photos/135257675@N08 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/135257675@N08)
This has helped me a lot recently. I've been looking at photos of the area etc which restricts the mind wondering, and gives you a plan to build towards.
Also, I've looked at video archives such as this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTBOr43Ji6U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTBOr43Ji6U) - that help me understand what stock appeared on the lines, in the general area.
... it doesn't stop me buying locos though! I've got a Rf and a Coal Dapol Class 26 coming. Not sure they ran in the Midlands?! :worried:
I think in just 2 short weeks you've answered your own question posed in the OP, Ted :laugh3:
Quote from: Newportnobby on March 01, 2020, 04:00:21 PM
I think in just 2 short weeks you've answered your own question posed in the OP, Ted :laugh3:
Yep! :D
For someone like me who is very interested in the modelling and running side, but has very limited knowledge of the railways, basing the former on an actual location makes sense.
I can copy the point layout for example, instead of trying to create a 'dream' layout which I don't posses enough knowledge and experience to do!
I also have it under good authority that helices were an actual thing and you could see coal MGRs running around them in the Midlands. :smiley-laughing: ;D
Ted I've never heard of class 26 at shirebrook. 08 20, 25, 31, 38 45, 47s, 56, 58 yes
Quote from: crewearpley40 on March 01, 2020, 04:07:23 PM
Ted I've never heard of class 26 at shirebrook. 08 20, 25, 31, 38 45, 47s, 56, 58 yes
What about passing through? :(
I have:
2 x 08 BR blue and DB Red (I will respray this)
No 20's just yet.
1 x 25 BR blue
3 x 26 BR blue, Coal and Rf
1 x 27 BR Blue
2 x 33 both in Dutch
2 x 37 in Rf and Dutch
2 x 47 BR blue and Rf
1 x 56 Rf
1 x 57 DRS (this will have to go!)
1 x 58 Coal and Mainline (I'm respraying that to Rf)
1 x 60 Rf
It's your layout. Ted. 26s and 27s only worked round london early 60s prior to transferring to Scotland. 20s a definite if modelling Nottinghamshire shirebrook
Quote from: crewearpley40 on March 01, 2020, 04:28:44 PM
It's your layout. Ted. 26s and 27s only worked round london early 60s prior to transferring to Scotland. 20s a definite if modelling Nottinghamshire shirebrook
Fair comment and thanks for the info.
I just love the 26 in the Rf livery, looks a little like Darth Vader's helmet!
I think this is why I like the class 31 as well, not that I own any... yet (waiting for release).
Ok. I model the nw so class 08, 20, 25 31, 40, 47 are key. Plenty of coal. The odd freightliner. Trip freight, speedlink
Any ideas what other freight traffic would flow through the area?
Or if there's any resource online that would help me (other than Google!)?
Sorry I'm unsure. Google shirebrook freight trains. Plenty of YouTube vids and a rm web : N gauge shirebrook 1980s era layout with links it was modelled, may help with ideas.. library photos in any railway books