I need to cover a larger area than between the tracks as in normal ballasting for a steam shed layout.
Some parts are 3" to 4" in width and I have great difficulty in obtaining an even spread and coverage.
To be honest it looks a right bl----y mess!
Any tips?
MauriceC.
After trying several techniques my best results to date have been from using a Peedie Ballast spreader (much cheaper than Proses) and Deluxe Materials Ballast Magic. For long straight sections I've found that for me it gives the neatest results in the shortest time. Everyone has their favourite but that's mine. I use Woodland Scenics fine ballast.
Quote from: mojo on February 07, 2020, 09:16:08 AM
I need to cover a larger area than between the tracks as in normal ballasting for a steam shed layout.
Some parts are 3" to 4" in width and I have great difficulty in obtaining an even spread and coverage.
To be honest it looks a right bl----y mess!
Any tips?
MauriceC.
How about putting down a membrane of cork first - cut to the desired shape of the infill. Then lay down the ballast of your choice and flatten with a small comb. You don't actually want a totally flat result but you also don't want N gauge mountains!! Good luck.
Quote from: Newportnobby on February 07, 2020, 10:07:44 AM
Quote from: mojo on February 07, 2020, 09:16:08 AM
I need to cover a larger area than between the tracks as in normal ballasting for a steam shed layout.
Some parts are 3" to 4" in width and I have great difficulty in obtaining an even spread and coverage.
To be honest it looks a right bl----y mess!
Any tips?
MauriceC.
How about putting down a membrane of cork first - cut to the desired shape of the infill. Then lay down the ballast of your choice and flatten with a small comb. You don't actually want a totally flat result but you also don't want N gauge mountains!! Good luck.
First time I infilled I put down way to much, now I put down as a little as possible with a view to adding more later if needed.. But still I see these perfectly ballasted tracks and look at mine and sigh, maybe weathering will tidy it :)..
Used to use the 50/50 PVA mix but recently changed to WWS ballast glue, avoiding the need to pre-soak and it dries fast.. Still have to spend hours after removing it from the chairs and sleepers though (sigh again)... Mines on cork it does help with the look...
As per Mick's response - part infill with cork/card or whatever to reduced the depth of the ballast and you should get a neater final finish.
The area between tracks around sheds was rarely ballasted with neat stone like running lines. More often it was a compacted mix of ash and clinker that was a lot finer. The pictures below are fairly typical.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/bd/e6/ed/bde6ed71d67e212b502f51522cb60ea5.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7067/6774395276_bbb5b1b591_b.jpg)
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/33/67/83/3367837608e914a09fbdfcbbb43a74a5.jpg)
Rather than using loose ballast, you might have an easier time raising the surface with cork sheet as Newportnobby suggests. Then paint over this with textured paint. Tamiya and Games Workshop both make a range of paints for simulating earth and gravel. Astrogranite with a dirty wash might look good.
(https://www.frontlinehobbies.com.au/assets/full/99189956046.jpg?1561167286)
You can probably get a similar effect by mixing sand into cheaper acrylic paint if you want. I tried using Woodland Scenics fine cinder ballast around my engine shed but I wasn't really happy with the effect. In N gauge, even the fine stuff is too coarse to give the sort of finish shown in the pictures above.
(https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_11_2012/post-887-0-33483500-1354281911.jpg)
Hi,
Was messing with some of this stuff ages back for roads, bit over scale so scrapped it, tried it again for Engine sheds and potentially works Depot, still think its over scale?
Thanks for the helpful suggestions.
The areas have been filled with card just thick enough to leave about 0.6mm. below the tops of the sleepers and the ballast I am using is almost dust, far smaller than the track ballast I have used.
Areas between tracks of about 0.75 to 1 inches have turned out fairly reasonable but anything wider seems to be a problem.
I will have a test using thinned acrylic paint mixed with a small amount of the ballast a.s.a.p.
Thanks again,
Maurice c.
I'm a long way from undertaking this task, but what about laying down a sheet of fine grade emery paper/cloth and giving it a wash over?
A friend of mine glued down some of those thin green scourers you get (e.g. 6 in a pack) from supermarkets and painted them black. The result is actually very good.
I use sand collected (and washed and sterilised- baked in the oven) from the beach. Different beaches give different particle sizes and colours. Once laid I air brush to weather and as required. I've also been experimenting with a pet product 'Bathing Sand' available from 'Pets At Home'please see my thread on RM web for full details.
https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/136284-shirebrook-n-gauge-1980s-era-layout/page/25/&tab=comments#comment-3858105 (https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/136284-shirebrook-n-gauge-1980s-era-layout/page/25/&tab=comments#comment-3858105)
Cheers
Duncan
The difficulty I seem to have is how to achieve an even level of the ballast infill. Using dry ballast dust and trying to brush over a large area does not leave a suitable even level. Tried running a piece of card over with little or no success.
I have tried painting first with thinned PVA then sprinkling the ballast dust, also laying on a layer of ballast and wetting, then soaking with the PVA. Nothing has met with my approval so far
Maurice C.
Hi Maurice,
Is there space for you to gently tap the area with a hammer, the vibrations should help level the ballast while it is dry. I use an atomiser to apply water with a drop of washing up liquid to pre- wet the ballast, then I add diluted pva glue with a dropper and allow the glue to gradually soak through the ballast.
Cheers
Duncan
Vibrating the area is something I have not tried but will have a go at for the next part.
I have used the standard method of wetting then soaking with diluted PVA (using a pipette) for this and track ballasting with fairly good results.
Maurice C.
Yes, the technique I was shown waaay back in the 70s at my club is pretty much the classic method: shovel ballast into place using a teaspoon, spread into place using a soft brush - eg. an old makeup brush, then use that same teaspoon to gently tap the rails and settle and bounce loose ballast off the tops of the sleepers. Then apply 50/50 watered down PVA.
It works fine and I find I enjoy ballasting as a restful evening exercise after a day's work :)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/86/5885-260120101040.jpeg)
Quote from: mojo on March 01, 2020, 12:53:16 PM
The difficulty I seem to have is how to achieve an even level of the ballast infill. Using dry ballast dust and trying to brush over a large area does not leave a suitable even level. Tried running a piece of card over with little or no success.
I have tried painting first with thinned PVA then sprinkling the ballast dust, also laying on a layer of ballast and wetting, then soaking with the PVA. Nothing has met with my approval so far
I completely understand the problem. I think that using loose material and attempting to replicate the real thing in miniature is very hard. When ballasting tracks, you have the sleepers to keep things level but large flat areas provide no such guides.
Chris Nevard uses DAS modelling clay to create the look of ash ballast for goods yards etc. I have not tried it myself but his layouts look extremely convincing and clay is much easier to work and get a decent level than handfuls of loose ballast.
http://nevardmedia.blogspot.com/2011/08/creating-effect-of-ash-ballast.html (http://nevardmedia.blogspot.com/2011/08/creating-effect-of-ash-ballast.html)
(https://scontent-lhr8-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/p960x960/51993337_2313856611998411_6575925535283609600_o.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=F3KZv5Yf_aQAX_Wmle7&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr8-1.xx&_nc_tp=6&oh=304ecf9556b0393a5583172d186b69cd&oe=5EE7DD5C)
Thanks for the link, the photos look good and it has set off an idea using thinned filler and texturing with the ballast dust.
Maurice C.
Just a thought. Would using a roller on the ballast work? I haven't tried it but it could work with the ballast dry or even wetted or even pva´d.
Dave
I can only support what markthetog mentioned earlier. The Peedie ballast spreader is a wonderful bit of kit for the money. I've been dreading ballasting but a trial this afternoon with the Peedie spreader using Woodland Scenics fine ballast could not have gone better. Put the spreader on the track, add ballast and then move it gently along the track. Bingo! All those years of slow and painful application done away with! I'll be making heavy use of this now. It gets it 95% right first time so not too much fiddling with after application. It didn't move much when sprayed with water, nor when water/PVA was added. Highly recommended.
That is a great link posted by Matt @Karhedron (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=207). My only problem with that Chris Nevard piece is that he usually works on OO or O and I think it would be a nightmare to try and replicate using DAS clay on N gauge track.
I will say he (Chris Nevard) was spot on when he writes about people ballasting yards "I have a hunch this is due to people copying other model railways rather than observing pictures of the real thing" :hmmm: Generally, I feel a lot of this goes on!
This thread has prompted me to look a bit closer at this aspect of scenic detailing. I had a half hearted attempt at something like this on my own layout using coffee grinds a while back. I was pleased with the effect but feel it could be improved. My thinking is experimenting with more coffee grinds, real ash and cinders (from my multifuel stove) and coal ground very finely. It should tamp down well in-between the sleepers.
I'll report back in a few years :goggleeyes:
The best tool I've found for applying ballast has been a flat paintbrush. The one I used was about 8mm wide and had a broad spread of bristles.
Initial spreading, I did using a rectangle of stiff card folded down the middle to make a 90º angle. This can be used to scoop up the material and then, holding it at an angle, I can tap the side to deposit a little at a time. With practice this is fairly quick.
Smoothing down can then be done either by pressing down the paintbrush flat against the surface, or holding it upright and gently tapping downwards repeatedly on the surface.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/88/8409-120320011940.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=88690)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/88/8409-120320012400.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=88692)
I've done a bit of trial ballasting before going full tilt on the layout, and was pleasantly surprised with the results as shown on the two photos. I used the Peedie spreader mentioned earlier and a mix of Woodland Scenics fine ballast in two colours. For the first section I just filled the spreader and moved it slowly along the track, which I think gives an excellent starting point. It only needs a little tweaking in places to be fine for my use. I then added about 50% fine filler and did another piece, as this is what I intend to use in goods yards, sidings, etc., and again the result was excellent for a first try. This is the first photo for some reason!
I am quite confident I can now get a good result on the layout and am very pleased with the Peddie spreader.
Quote from: Southerngooner on March 12, 2020, 10:35:09 AM
... a mix of Woodland Scenics fine ballast in two colours.
Not sure about the mix of colours it looks a bit unnatural to my eyes and reminds me of budgie cage grit. I would expect all the stones to acquire the same overall dirt/brakedust colour.
The application seems to have gone well :thumbsup:
If you look at real ballast it's often not one colour after a few months of weathering. The mix is two parts dark and one part light, and with a bit of weathering after installation should look good as it's the same mix used on James Street. I've looked at a number of colour photos for my location and period and there aren't many single colours there.
Perhaps the title is a bit misleading, I needed to cover larger areas than between the rails with ballast.
I have now found a method which to my mind has improved results, this "lightbulb" moment happened when my wife was watching a cookery program and I was kibitzing! The baker was icing a cake with powdered icing sugar and used a fine sieve. Bingo!
I tried this method by painting the area with diluted and coloured p.v.a then, using a fine sieve, sprinkled the fine ballast on top leaving a thin layer. When dry I vacuumed the area and finally painted again with the coloured p.v.a.
Much better result.
Thanks for all the previous replies.
Maurice C.
@mojo (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=891) I have an old tea-strainer, perfect for that type of spreading. I use neat PVA as a base, sprinkle, then drizzle in dilute PVA to seal the ballast just as for ballasting trackwork.
Yes I initially tried drizzling p.v.a. using a pipette before the ballast dried as for ballasting track but found this distorted the fine thin layer of material. Drying and painting with p.v.a. later was much better.
Maurice C.
As with all ballasting, I find the trick is to apply the dilute glue to an edge (or the sides of the rails when ballasting track itself) and let capillary action draw it in. Don't drop it from the pipette directly onto the ballast.
Ballasting is a relaxing activity, I hope I'll have more to do one day when the next project comes along :D