https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-50067073 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-50067073)
At what point did she think it was a good idea to stick her head out of the window of a train that was travelling at 75mph. How can the sign be inadequate, there shouldn't even be the need for a warning sign?
What is wrong with people :censored: :censored: :censored:
We will never or may not know the story and the truth. Railadvent co uk has the rail accident investigation branch recommendations findings. Plenty of debate to be had
A tragic loss. :heart: to all affected.
There are silly people, though. A few weeks ago a bunch of young blokes were "playing chicken" at a local station, leaning out from the platform in front of an oncoming train.
Result? One dead chicken, one traumatised driver, 300 inconvenienced commuters.
According to the media, alcohol was involved.
obviously to young to have seen the BBC safety film
Totally agree with Railgooner such a tragic accident, and sympathy goes to family members.
But .... don't stick your head out a window that has a a warning above it saying don't stick your head out the window :no:
And as Philip says, what made her think that was a good idea anyway.
Love the Young Ones clip :D
All best wishes
Kevin
:beers:
Do they still have those Mk3s where you have to pull down the window to open the door from the outside? :goggleeyes:
yes squiddy
And that's exactly what she was on when she stuck her head out.
In this day and age it is somewhat surprising that's the mechanism for opening the door, but... y'know... just don't stick your head out of a moving train. Not rocket surgery.
Still, very sad for those directly affected.
And what`s on the news today?, some people are climbing on the roof of a tube train and others are gluing themselves to them.
It's tragic and must be awful for her family and friends but what annoys me is that the whole article is more about how a sign above the window which said CAUTION Do not lean out of the window when the train is moving was deemed 'inadequate' because "Investigators claimed the use of the word "caution" suggested that leaning out the window could be done safely if care was taken."
They've even tried to blame NR for not cutting the foliage that she hit down. Now, yes, I'm sure we could agree that NR could do better, but when they do, loads of others get up in arms about cutting trees down.....
At some point in the last 20 years common sense got up and walked out the door in a huff......
I grew up having to physically interact with the world around me. That helped to make me intimately aware of the world around me.
Today, kids grow up interacting chiefly via Facebook/Twitter. They are barely aware of anything that isn't in the i-world. They literally have their heads in the Cloud.
And therein lies the problem - because the clouds are outside the window of the train - hence you must lean out to get there.
If they are so dangerous then how did we manage all those years ago when everything had a drop light window? And no central door locks either, we stuck our heads out, we knew the risk, we opened doors half way down platforms and jumped off, once in a while you mis-stepped and face planted the platform, oh and people stood behind the yellow line as they knew a door was likely to be flung open.
Sure there were incidents but we weren't dying like a bunch of lemmings!
Quote from: AdrianC on October 17, 2019, 02:36:58 PM
It's tragic and must be awful for her family and friends but what annoys me is that the whole article is more about how a sign above the window which said CAUTION Do not lean out of the window when the train is moving was deemed 'inadequate' because "Investigators claimed the use of the word "caution" suggested that leaning out the window could be done safely if care was taken."
They've even tried to blame NR for not cutting the foliage that she hit down. Now, yes, I'm sure we could agree that NR could do better, but when they do, loads of others get up in arms about cutting trees down.....
At some point in the last 20 years common sense got up and walked out the door in a huff......
I could suggest another sign, but couldn't put the wording on here without being put 'on report', even using asterisks :censored:
Quote from: Intercity on October 17, 2019, 03:16:40 PM
If they are so dangerous then how did we manage all those years ago when everything had a drop light window? And no central door locks either, we stuck our heads out, we knew the risk, we opened doors half way down platforms and jumped off, once in a while you mis-stepped and face planted the platform, oh and people stood behind the yellow line as they knew a door was likely to be flung open.
Sure there were incidents but we weren't dying like a bunch of lemmings!
people were used to having to look out for themselves, risk assess for themselves, take responsibility for themselves and their actions, oh and there was something called, now what was it, errr
COMMON SENSE :veryangry:
"She was with friends, and the RAIB said it believed "at least one other friend leant out of the window before [Ms Roper]"."
Not a word of criticism or blame in the report of the first idiot of the group who stuck their head out of the window.
Quote from: Intercity on October 17, 2019, 03:16:40 PM
If they are so dangerous then how did we manage all those years ago when everything had a drop light window? And no central door locks either, we stuck our heads out, we knew the risk, we opened doors half way down platforms and jumped off, once in a while you mis-stepped and face planted the platform, oh and people stood behind the yellow line as they knew a door was likely to be flung open.
Sure there were incidents but we weren't dying like a bunch of lemmings!
This was different though, the train was doing 75mph and not slowing to a halt as you were doing
Quote from: Intercity on October 17, 2019, 03:16:40 PM
If they are so dangerous then how did we manage all those years ago when everything had a drop light window?...
People had accidents and were injured or died. We often allow the glamour of steam and all that shiny brass to distract us from the fact that railways were places where people -- especially the workers -- were exposed to risks we simply wouldn't accept today. Even if relatively small numbers of people died, injuries like burns were commonplace among footplate and shed staff. Passengers were of course not exposed to the same risks, but the Harrow accident tragically demonstrated just how unsafe pre-Mk1 coaching stock would be in the event of a high speed collision.
Quote from: Intercity on October 17, 2019, 03:16:40 PM
Sure there were incidents but we weren't dying like a bunch of lemmings!
Overall deaths on railways have been in massive decline since the 1950s. Even allowing for the fact our railways are running much faster, more intense services, and passenger numbers are at record highs, the trend is downwards.
https://orr.gov.uk/news-and-blogs/orr-blog/2015/175-years-making-britains-railways-safer
Cheers, NeMo
This young lady paid for a momenatry act of stupidity wih her life. Stuff like this happens every day on our roads - a momentary misjudgement and a life or two gets snuffed out. Someone's daughter, partner, or sibling has been killed. It is sad, but life is dangerous.
What strikes as a bit strange about this one is why this protruding tree had not been reported by the many engine drivers that presumbly pass along this line on a continuing basis. Of course, perhaps it was reported and not acted upon. If the tree was close enough to the side of the train to hit someone's head, it must have passed very close to the cab of the locomotives and it looks like it had been gradually falling towards the line so would have had to be dealt with before long.
Webbo
Quote from: class37025 on October 17, 2019, 05:44:56 PM
Quote from: Intercity on October 17, 2019, 03:16:40 PM
If they are so dangerous then how did we manage all those years ago when everything had a drop light window? And no central door locks either, we stuck our heads out, we knew the risk, we opened doors half way down platforms and jumped off, once in a while you mis-stepped and face planted the platform, oh and people stood behind the yellow line as they knew a door was likely to be flung open.
Sure there were incidents but we weren't dying like a bunch of lemmings!
people were used to having to look out for themselves, risk assess for themselves, take responsibility for themselves and their actions, oh and there was something called, now what was it, errr
COMMON SENSE :veryangry:
I hate to break this to you, but it's a myth there was some golden age of common sense.
Anecdotal I know, but ca. 1975 in a little village somewhere in England there was a boy of about 10 or 11 who ripped the sticker off one side of Railsquid's little pedal car, just one of a string of antisocial activities apparently, anyway he didn't get a chance to come back rip off the sticker on the other side because not long thereafter he was fooling around with friends at the edge of the local quarry and ended up accidentally removing himself from the gene pool.
I remember at least one incident from the pre-digital age of decapitation caused by leaning out of the window, I'm sure there are plenty more.
Indeed, even in this thread we've got people reminiscing about the good ol' days when you jumped out of a moving train and faceplanted the platform. Ahh yes, what halcyon days those were, when common sense abound...
If I'm to take issue with anything it's the whole thing about the sticker wording being in some way culpable for her actions. The idea that people are now more stupid is certainly ridiculous, and I'll wager is shared by people of a certain age.
Apparently the route had not been checked for trees and route impingment for over 3 years. We have 3 miles of double track railway line through our fields, the whole route is tree lined and 3 years ago during a bad winter a tree fell on the railway line. Network Rail appeared en masse at 5am on a Saturday morning with Rail Roader cherry pickers, chainsaws, winch assisted Toyota Hi Luxs and spent the weekend hacking everything back to a good 5ft away from the tracks, we got left with plenty of firewood that weekend!!! We haven't seen anyone since, not that they aren't doing their job, presumably there is no threat at this moment in time.
It just nails home the point that we have to have disclaimers about everything everywhere, but there ALWAYS has to be someone to blame. Its shocking her friends witnessed it and her family have to deal with the tragic loss but it was surely accidental death caused by their own stupidity. It's the same when anyone dies the first question anyone asks is "oh what did they die of??" The real answer is they were 86 and died of old age but that seems to be unacceptable as well.
It's the "blame everyone else except the stupid person" culture that is creeping in to todays society that worries me. ???
Quote from: exmouthcraig on October 18, 2019, 08:22:34 AM
It just nails home the point that we have to have disclaimers about everything everywhere
But why, why do you need one about not sticking your head out of a train moving at 75mph. Anyone with an ounce of intelligence would know that if you do it, it's probably not going to end well. >:(
Indeed, I think your first post answered your second posts question.
Quote from: exmouthcraig on October 18, 2019, 08:22:34 AM
Its shocking her friends witnessed it and her family have to deal with the tragic loss but it was surely accidental death caused by their own stupidity.
I'm quite ambivalent about what happens to people who do such idiotic things but have huge sympathy for the poor railway and emergency services personnel who have to clear up some idiot's mess.
Those who would really benefit in learning a lesson from this, sadly won't as it's unlikely to appear in their Twitter feeds.
As technology gets smarter society gets dumber! The film Idiocracy (2006) (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/) is a comedy story of an ordinary man with an average IQ who travels 500 years in to the future, where he is the smartest man on earth. Behind the comedy is a rather perceptive anthropological commentary on how smart tech makes for a dumb society.
The future of mankind = :dunce:
Quote from: RailGooner on October 18, 2019, 10:22:21 AM
Those who would really benefit in learning a lesson from this, sadly won't as it's unlikely to appear in their Twitter feeds.
As technology gets smarter society gets dumber! The film Idiocracy (2006) (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/) is a comedy story of an ordinary man with an average IQ who travels 500 years in to the future, where he is the smartest man on earth. Behind the comedy is a rather perceptive anthropological commentary on how smart tech makes for a dumb society.
The future of mankind = :dunce:
You might be on to something there.
I've just finished reading The Road To Wigan Pier by George Orwell and he makes similar arguments about the side-effects of technology.
Quote from: Philip. on October 18, 2019, 08:29:44 AM
Quote from: exmouthcraig on October 18, 2019, 08:22:34 AM
It just nails home the point that we have to have disclaimers about everything everywhere
But why, why do you need one about not sticking your head out of a train moving at 75mph. Anyone with an ounce of intelligence would know that if you do it, it's probably not going to end well. >:(
Well no, the trouble is that 999 times out of 1000 you could stick your head out and be just fine. She was unlucky that this was the 1:1000 time. That doesn't make it a sensible thing to do, evidently, but it also doesn't suggest she had no intelligence.
Look at this lot in 1977:
(https://cdn.shortpixel.ai/client/to_webp,q_lossy,ret_img,w_750/https://www.therailwayhub.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/41/2019/07/HR-233-Preserved-diesels6.jpg)
Maniacs, the lot of them, do they deserve decapitation?
Even the loco crew (rear cab) are joining in!
If it happened to the loco crew member, they might all have been in trouble!
Maybe he was yelling at them all to get their heads in ;)
Quote from: RailGooner on October 18, 2019, 10:22:21 AM
As technology gets smarter society gets dumber!
Hmmm, I've been pondering this more as I've been working and perhaps it's not that people are dumber, it's just that we don't always have experience of a World unlike the one we grew up in. So perhaps we are not be able to accurately access the dangers as well as someone that grew up around those things whatever they are.
To put it another way how many of us could safely use a completely alien technology first time. Experienced users of those tools might look upon that as stupid.
However, ignoring instincts and warning signs that are already in place is something altogether different...
Quote from: NScaleNotes on October 18, 2019, 11:20:58 AM
To put it another way how many of us could safely use a completely alien technology first time.
I wish I'd filmed Mrs. Railsquid (who hails from Japan) the first time she encountered a "classic" British-style carriage door (ca. 2012) with its 19th century operating technique (though by that time the train had been brutally dragged into the 20th century with the adoption of a mechanism known as "central locking").
TBH I have travelled on many trains across the world, including decrepit Eastern European ones, and have yet to encounter another railway with a mechanism which requires you to open the window and lean outside the train just to open the bl**dy door. Don't think I've come across any which didn't have some kind of automatic closing mechanism outside of museum coaches either.
don't think it actually requires you to lean out of the window, simply put your arm out to grasp the outside handle. nitpicking, I know.
was I imagining it or was it not long ago that there was supposed to be a whole raft of H&S imposed on excursions etc where there was even talk of having bars across windows to stop idiots poking their heads out ?
if these applied to specials, why did they not apply to sewrvice trains as well ?
Hi all,
Right so sadly this young lady dies but there are multiple factors both human and physical to this which not just the industry but us as collective (as in everyone who uses a train).
So does the industry need to do some remedial action yes- without rose tinted glasses on (too young) line side use to be kept clear of foliage in steam days to prevent track side fires, do we need to be quite so dramatic these days no, not with bushes or ground level foliage. However trees yes we do they present so many dangers! Not only could they have the effect they have in this case but also line side trees falling and blocking lines is becoming a growing issue.
All that been said though what about tunnels, bridges, and even other trains (Waterloo is notorious for clearance between trains), rail operators have warning signs up about the dangers how big do they need to be considering that people been fatally injured on the railways isn't a new issue and this type of incident has been widely reported numerous times before! (Again at Waterloo a gent was fatally injured sticking his head out of a class 442 and been struck by an oncoming train)
There is a point where cannot blame an industry for what happened and we are at that point for numerous of the incidents that have come to light recently, my it be this one because yes she hit a tree that shouldn't be there but it could have as easily been a bridge or a tunnel mouth.
While her death is a tragic incident she was safely on the train in a safe environment and placed herself outside of that safe environment, it was her choice to put her head out not the industries and sadly she paid a high price for that choice.