:confusedsign: I know it doesn't take much!!
I've had 3 sets of graham farish cattle wagons (triple packs) and a good 40 Peco versions for a while, with far too many bits and pieces cluttering up the bench it was time to start working through the backlog.
The peco ones I needed to paint the insides of a few as they were white, the quite obvious over scale bar in the open section needed to be painted black and rather then renumbering all of them I'll cheat and give a good dusting of weathering to save me a ton of hard work.
But as far as I know these wagons were built as 8T and 12T examples but the only difference was the roof profile. Theres probably lots more to it but that's as far as my knowledge goes.
So.....
Why on earth is the GF wagon SO much bigger than the Peco one??
It's not a problem because I wont ever run all 51 together but when the GF ones are in the box it just stands out so are the GF ones correct and Peco have just done the usual and made them fit???
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/82/5099-131019162752.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=82709)
Erm...
...for bigger cows?
:dunce:
{No idea!}
The recent Farish version is an accurate model of the BR design (itself based on the later LMS design with a few GW bits thrown in). The Peco model is 'adjusted' to fit their standard 10ft wheelbase chassis and most closely resembles earlier GW or NER designs.
Craig;
This is a little bit of background info; it may help you to look for more;
http://www.igg.org.uk/gansg/7-fops/fo-cattle.htm (http://www.igg.org.uk/gansg/7-fops/fo-cattle.htm)
Martyn
Thanks chaps :thankyousign:
I thought the peco ones would be the same story as their Fish Van's but at 1/3 of the price of GF I could never afford to put 50 of theirs on the layout.
Whilst looking into weathering these, obviously being fully fitted and XP rated they had vacuum pipes, the GF has them from the factory as its 3x the price so I've raided my parts box and managed to collect 16 pairs from some NGS kits BUT short of making another 30 pairs from wire is there anywhere I can buy plastic versions (like the NGS kits) ?????
Idont feel they warrant brass vacuum pipes but will at least make them look a bit more prototypical. I guess the cylinder part sits in the same position under the chassis as NGS recommend on the kit instructions????
I've just had a look through a LMS wagon book, and there's at least half a dozen similar but different cattle wagon designs in there.
Plenty of scope for different sizes!
Indeed, I'm quite sure as there haven't been more then single figures of RTR cattle wagons in the last 50years mine are at least the same as everyone elses.
And if the only thing someone can complain about is my wrong sized cattle wagons, I'll take that :D
Quote from: exmouthcraig on October 13, 2019, 09:31:28 PM
Indeed, I'm quite sure as there haven't been more then single figures of RTR cattle wagons in the last 50years mine are at least the same as everyone elses.
Indeed...
If you are looking for variety, in your cattle wagons you need to look to kit building, and in many cases the second hand market... :(
Precursor Models made a very nice and easy to assemble model of a 1920s/30s LMS cattle wagon (Plastic body on a brass chassis)
- often wonder what happened to them??Graham Hughes made a number of pre-grouping types, mostly Scottish or Northern English companies (white metal - very tidy castings but heavy so you wouldn't want more than a couple in the train!)
There's also a few Etched brass kits been done over the years (possibly 2mm Society??)
Quote from: exmouthcraig on October 13, 2019, 07:27:21 PM
..
is there anywhere I can buy plastic versions (like the NGS kits) ?????
...
:hmmm: DCC Supplies do Dapol M7 vac pipes (https://www.dccsupplies.com/item-p-110226/m7-steam-vacuum-pipe).
You will need some of these as well
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/82/941-141019050545-827421608.jpeg)
I think the calf floats would be a quality addition to the station scene.
Thanks @RailGooner (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=5427) I need some bits from DCC supplies so will have a gander
The old Poole Farish cattle van was based on an LMS design which lasted in service into the 1960s. Like the Peco version it is too short, but not a bad body moulding for 1971.
Richard
The Peco cattle wagon most closely resembles a GWR W12 Mex B (see the copious tome by Tourret et al for details). If you've got any in GW livery then they should all be vacuum fitted and have tie bars on the axles. Same for BR livery. Any other livery is Peco being economical with the truth shall I say :D
The 2mmFS fraternity have a greater selection in plastic on brass chassis and also in etched brass; but of course you have to be a member.
Then there's those already mentioned; but you've got to find them first (good luck with that!). Hope this helps a little.
Twinklekev
Thanks Kev, I've started fitting vacuum pipes and seen tie bars in some pictures and on some models but not on others.
I'm not unhappy with the peco ones so will compromise and fit vacuum pipes and tie bars, they are all in BR bauxite so that will be good enough for me.
Quote from: exmouthcraig on October 13, 2019, 07:27:21 PM
Whilst looking into weathering these, obviously being fully fitted and XP rated they had vacuum pipes, the GF has them from the factory as its 3x the price so I've raided my parts box and managed to collect 16 pairs from some NGS kits BUT short of making another 30 pairs from wire is there anywhere I can buy plastic versions (like the NGS kits) ?????
Just remember Lime wash was banned in 1927...I bought a set of cheap BR cattle wagons that some one had lime washed, great fun getting rid of it all..
Quote from: PLD on October 13, 2019, 10:44:17 PM
Precursor Models made a very nice and easy to assemble model of a 1920s/30s LMS cattle wagon (Plastic body on a brass chassis) - often wonder what happened to them??
N Brass have a page on their website titled "Precursor Models". It says: "
This is the remaining stock from Precursor Models, once gone it is gone". It's virtually all gears and transmission bits: some wheel overlays and a cast boiler for an LNWR Coal Tank.
Jim
Since all the information has been given I've been trying to make these less 'box fresh' so they've had a few washes with various bits and pieces.
The chassis still needs weathering before a full over weather dusting will happen.
Tie bars have been added BUT I can see why Peco dont bother, as soon as its sat on the rails you cant see whether you have fitted it or not :doh:
The left one in the picture has had the body weathered, still roof and chassis to go but I have fitted vacuum pipes and metal wheels, the right hand one is as it came out the box just to compare.
I did put 8 cows in 15 of these BUT now the roofs on and their coupled together, surprisingly you cant see their in there!!!!
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/82/5099-191019131621.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=82955)
Ah yes, but at least YOU know they're in there.
:D
I'm relatively happy with how this ones turned out. The only problem is it's taken about 6hrs with drying time and working bits out and I have another 44 to do :'(
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/82/5099-191019182908.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=82968)
better get on with them Craig >:D
I look forward to the long grim winter weve been told werd getting, tuck myself up in the barn, heater blaring, gold on the radio and the wind, rain and snow beating down on the tin roof :D
It might be a stupid question but why do you need 50+ cattle wagons? Given your chosen time period the use of such wagons would be diminishing, so unless you have photos of long trains of them surely a rake of six or seven in a train would be more than adequate? We did a lot of research for James Street which is set in the 1958-62 period, although not in SR territory (I wish!) and couldn't see many photos of more than 10 in a train at any time. Why not just detail 20 and leave the rest?
Just trying to save you a lot of work!
Not a stupid question @Southerngooner (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3680), we have got a few photos of decent quantity of cattle Van's, never running in more than 8 or 10 in a rake but abattoir traffic was quite high and there was still quite high market traffic either side of our location of which Van's went both Up and Down.
And it's a big layout with plenty of yard sidings for loose stock.
We had a productive night last night and are now upto half way through :o
I'm not a vegetarian but I don't have a beef with empty cattle wagons :no: :doh:
Quote from: Newportnobby on October 20, 2019, 09:24:47 AM
I'm not a vegetarian but I don't have a beef with empty cattle wagons :no: :doh:
shouldn't that be in 'todays groaner' ? :smiley-laughing:
Quote from: class37025 on October 20, 2019, 10:24:14 AM
Quote from: Newportnobby on October 20, 2019, 09:24:47 AM
I'm not a vegetarian but I don't have a beef with empty cattle wagons :no: :doh:
shouldn't that be in 'todays groaner' ? :smiley-laughing:
No, do NOT encourage him, for everyone's sake.
As a lad a Christmas present from an Aunt was the Ian Allan trains annual 1966. I still have it and there is an article by the late R.C. Riley on the Brocolli specials from Penzance.
They used cattle wagons to transport much of the fresh Cornish produce, as it allowed air to circulate around the produce during transit. By the time the train reached Bristol it could have as many as 60 cattle vans in tow. Here some would be taken off for Bristol and Wales, the rest making it's way toward the Midlands and eventually Scotland.
On this bassis you could run a train of a large number of cattle vans as a perishables express.
There are some remnants of the Brocolli/fresh produce loading bays at Ponsharden, a mile or so from Penzance station. If you enjoy shunting it could make an interrsting layout with it's loading bays and long gone goods shed.
I may just be tempted to model it one day...as I have track plans and pictures of the goods shed.
Thanks @trkilliman (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=2838) I have read somewhere very recently about the seasonal produce being transported in cattlevans.
Assuming BR (S) followed the same practice as GWR and then BR (W) I think that gives us another excuse for running another rake over our metals ;)
I'm pretty sure I've seen a documentary, many years ago, a la BTF, for the broccoli traffic; it showed locos from as far away as Wolverhampton and South Wales (I think) being 'borrowed' to cope with the very high seasonal requirement for this traffic, at least on the WR.
But I can't remember the name of it, and its not obvious in a list of BTF films which I found :(
Martyn
With the risk of this having to be shifted to 'My workbench' :sorrysign: mods
After today I am now left with 14 left to weather but these were kits so I need to work out what decals I'll be sourcing for them, I reckon I've got some in the box that will be near enough but that's for another day.
Quite happy with how the roofs have come out on these, the good / bad thing is I can only do 4 at a time (i dont want to put more then 4 on my spray booth turntable to make sure i get good even varnish cover) so the result is very different on each lot because no matter how hard you try the outcome is never the same, but that's weathering. No 2 should be the same.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/83/5099-201019190643.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=83020)
I do remember the broccoli traffic being portrayed in one of Michael Portaloo's railway programmes and also in a BTF film about freight traffic and the need to press extra stock and locos into service during the season. As said, most often it was cattle vans being used.