N Gauge Forum

General Category => N Gauge Discussion => Topic started by: exmouthcraig on August 31, 2019, 06:14:51 PM

Title: Placement of fire irons
Post by: exmouthcraig on August 31, 2019, 06:14:51 PM
Here we go people, personally I think this isn't a step to far but please tell me it is, but I'm quite sure I'm not the only one thinking it,

Having a considerable amount of locos all going through detailing prior to delivery on shed each ones getting fire irons added either above water tanks on tank engines or tenders BUT............

Which one was closest to the fireman? If we take a 4MT tank ,the fireman was on the RHS of the cab so if were in his shoes facing the front of the engine, front window open which tool was closest to the boiler and closest to the side of the tank? Long handled shovel or Long handled poker?????

I'm pretty sure there would of been a preference but was it based on individual fireman or was there a layout that just stuck???

:thankyousign:
Title: Re: Placement of fire irons
Post by: martyn on August 31, 2019, 07:07:37 PM
Probably the last one to be used! :D

Martyn
Title: Re: Placement of fire irons
Post by: exmouthcraig on August 31, 2019, 07:45:54 PM
And there was me praising your wealth of knowledge only 24hrs ago @martyn (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=447) :laugh:  :D but most probably true!!!!

Well I made me decision that the shovel goes closest to the boiler as that then shows the shovel edges, the poker is the same upside down.

However now I'm going to find out that they always travelled shovel face down and I'll have to swap them over  :-[

Who said modelling was easy!!!
Title: Re: Placement of fire irons
Post by: crewearpley40 on August 31, 2019, 07:54:17 PM
shovel maybe on shelf behind fireman or held in bracket behind right hand / leg of fireman and poker if driver is on right hand side eg RHS drive loco
Title: Re: Placement of fire irons
Post by: REGP on August 31, 2019, 09:16:40 PM
But how do you tell if the locos driven from the left or the right?

Ray
Title: Re: Placement of fire irons
Post by: crewearpley40 on August 31, 2019, 09:27:23 PM
depends where controls are eg regulator, different companies '
arrangements etc  i have seen right hand drive controls eg driver regulator , reverse / forward, control right hand use, throttle left hand, so fireman use right hand to shovel
Title: Re: Placement of fire irons
Post by: exmouthcraig on August 31, 2019, 09:58:33 PM
As far as I know most locos tend to be left hand driven although apparently GWR were known for RHD because they believed most people were right handed and therefore the fireman would find it easier to shovel, although it meant the driver was using the regulator in his left hand  :hmmm:

Always refer to the real thing to know which side the fireman was on.
Title: Re: Placement of fire irons
Post by: REGP on August 31, 2019, 11:17:26 PM
Thanks guys it looks as if I'll have to look up each loco to work it out.

Ray
Title: Re: Placement of fire irons
Post by: exmouthcraig on September 01, 2019, 04:18:34 AM
Which locos are you after Ray? I'm sure between us all we'll know which was which for you.
Title: Re: Placement of fire irons
Post by: Train Waiting on September 01, 2019, 08:37:26 AM
A helpful clue is which side of the engine the reversing rod is on.  It's often a very visible feature.

BR Standards were L/H.
GWR: R/H
LMS, LNER and Southern standardised on L/H but early locomotives could have been R/H.  The most confusing class is probably the LMS '4F' 0-6-0.  Derby had changed to L/H whilst Crewe was still building R/H.  There was an irony here because, pre-Grouping:

LNWR: L/H
MR: R/H!

The Stirlings favoured R/H but the Drummonds preferred L/H.  When Peter Drummond replaced Hugh Smellie as Locomotive Superintendent of the G&SWR his new designs were L/H.  The enginemen were not amused, having been used to R/H since Patrick Stirling's time.

Best wishes.

John
Title: Re: Placement of fire irons
Post by: Newportnobby on September 01, 2019, 10:12:44 AM
Quote from: REGP on August 31, 2019, 11:17:26 PM
Thanks guys it looks as if I'll have to look up each loco to work it out.

Ray

@REGP (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1145)
Ray - I was very kindly given the attached information by 'Train Waiting' (John) based on steam locos in my possession/on order and hope it helps you and others

edit - latest purchases 'Terrier' and Wainwright 'C' class - both Left hand side drive
Title: Re: Placement of fire irons
Post by: exmouthcraig on September 01, 2019, 10:16:26 AM
@Newportnobby (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264) thanks Mick as luck would have it I have managed to get all of mine the right way round  :bounce:
Title: Re: Placement of fire irons
Post by: REGP on September 01, 2019, 11:45:47 AM
Most of my steamers are either GWR or BR Standard designs with a few LMS & LENR locos for Specials or Excursions

@Train Waiting (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=6222)
John thanks for the general indication it will help me with any not covered by your list that Mick has copied to me.

@Newportnobby (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264)
Mick thanks for the  copy of the detailed list, it covers most of the Loco types I have (8 GWR & 12 Lefties).

Ray

   
Title: Re: Placement of fire irons
Post by: martyn on September 01, 2019, 12:52:09 PM
Note that some of the ex GER rebuilds by The LNER retained RH drive even on rebuilding-eg the Clauds and B12/3. Note also that some locos built RH pre-grouping in the LNER group were not changed to LH until BR days.

As has been said, the easiest reference is the reversing rod-it was on the driver's side.

Some loco tenders had tunnels for the fire irons, some racks or raves, and some seem to have had them just dumped in a spare part of the coal space.

Martyn
Title: Re: Placement of fire irons
Post by: Garyf on September 01, 2019, 03:12:41 PM
Just found this picture I took on Friday.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/81/6824-010919151219.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=81040)
Title: Re: Placement of fire irons
Post by: exmouthcraig on September 01, 2019, 03:18:24 PM
Thanks @Garyf (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=6824) if only we had another foot of the boiler in the picture.

Mind you it seems to be all thrown onto the hooks so @martyn (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=447) s idea is probably true.
Title: Re: Placement of fire irons
Post by: Garyf on September 01, 2019, 03:29:19 PM
Not sure why that got cut off, I'll try again
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/81/6824-010919152904.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=81044)
Title: Re: Placement of fire irons
Post by: exmouthcraig on September 01, 2019, 03:33:15 PM
There was me worrying about 2 tools on there. Looks more like 4 chucked on anyway they land
Title: Re: Placement of fire irons
Post by: Garyf on September 01, 2019, 04:13:55 PM
Just had a look at my other photos from the same vantage point, nothing useful amongst them though. IIRC when I did my driver experience day on the 9F the various irons were in a big jumble and not easy to find the right one.

Gary