Well, the day started well enough, got up, help wife with horses, came in and had breakfast.
Thought I'd get the lawns mown before it got too warm. Job done.
Next? Time to cut back the rampant Laurel at the front of the house between us and the neighbour. Started tackling it with petrol hedge trimmer, good job so far. Our neighbour came out to assist along with his long-handled hedge trimmer which we needed for the top. This is where it started to go awry.
Whilst using it on a sturdy ladder trestle, I was almost finished when, as I swung it level, I got a nasty electrical belt from my right elbow to my right hand. Finished the Laurel off, took no more than minute and a half and turned of the trimmer...
...woah! Suddenly heart started racing like you wouldn't believe, not just pounding, but a real machine gun like speed (and I mean Tommy Gun fast!), coupled with a really light headed feeling. Got off the trestle sharpish, and called the wife whilst bemused neighbour tried to help (wife is a qualified FAW (First Aider at Work)). A rather convoluted call to NHS Direct resulted in a vist by a ambulance and a couple of charming paramedics. ECG's were run, showing some very interesting and unusual patterns and they decided A&E would be a good idea. More ECG's, blood tests, urine samples, and more ECG's. Sent home after two hours and told to take it easy.
Why am I telling you all this? Well, it turned out the rubber spark-plug lead end had a small split which as I swung the trimmer came into contact with my elbow and sent approximately 45,000 volts coursing through my arm, triggering the racing heart symptoms.
The moral? Always check equipment before using, especially if you are borrowing it, it wouldn't have occurred to me to inspect the rubber cover that closely to find a small split. My neighbour, bless him, felt awful, but no long term harm.
The medical advice is that anyone receiving an electrical shock, whether from house electrics, vehicle HT leads or other HT leads, should go to A&E for ECG tests.
Been feeling below par for the rest of the day. Hey-ho.
Tomorrow is another day.
Hi emjaybee,
Sounds 'orrible. Glad your OK.
Advice taken on board. Thank you. Gardening is my job but I'm not great at elfin safety. Must do better.
Take care my friend, you don't want to damage your pitching arm :)
Cheers weave :beers:
Quote from: emjaybee on May 12, 2019, 11:32:02 PM
The medical advice is that anyone receiving an electrical shock, whether from house electrics, vehicle HT leads or other HT leads, should go to A&E for ECG tests.
Having served an apprenticeship to be an electrician and many years qualified I would have had to move into A&E if I did that every time I had a belt. Probably best to be safe rather than sorry for others though. I think my body has just got used to it :goggleeyes:
Yes indeed. I've had a kick from a spark plug on a mower with exactly the same split cap problem. Luckily I was years younger, and I had no adverse effects. Not sure about these days, though!!
Take it easy and monitor yourself.
Jeeez Michael. Glad you're okay and hopefully no long term damage. Keep resting for a few days - it sounds like your heart ran a marathon in a few seconds. :beers:
Cripes, Michael :o 45000 volts :goggleeyes:
I think I'd be on a cloud playing my harp after that.
A cautionary tale, however the grim reaper was cheated out of another victim.
45,000 volts is that AC or DC ? Not sure if it's the volts or amps that does the damage.
When I was young (approx. 12) I was messing about with an old mains radio
when I got a shock from it, by God that gave me a tingle in my arm which
lasted for a few days.
Now where can I buy a Faraday cage....... :hmmm:
Yikes :goggleeyes:
Every new day's a blessing 8)
Quote from: Newportnobby on May 13, 2019, 09:45:41 AM
Cripes, Michael :o 45000 volts :goggleeyes:
I think I'd be on a cloud playing my harp after that.
I admire your optimism Mick :)
Quote from: broadsword on May 13, 2019, 10:00:58 AM
A cautionary tale, however the grim reaper was cheated out of another victim.
45,000 volts is that AC or DC ? Not sure if it's the volts or amps that does the damage.
It's DC and the current causes the damage. It only requires 50volts between The fingertips to cause enough current to flow through the heart to stop it. When working on TVs we were always told to keep one hand in your pocket so that couldn't happen.
Flippin' 'eck! :o Glad things appear to be back to near normal now.
Blimey.
Hope you are back to normal now.
As I always say, you can't trust electricity. Never trust anything you can't see.
Quote from: Malc on May 13, 2019, 11:40:37 AM
Quote from: broadsword on May 13, 2019, 10:00:58 AM
A cautionary tale, however the grim reaper was cheated out of another victim.
45,000 volts is that AC or DC ? Not sure if it's the volts or amps that does the damage.
It's DC and the current causes the damage. It only requires 50volts between The fingertips to cause enough current to flow through the heart to stop it.
As I was told years ago, "It's the volts that jolts but the mils that kills".
Don't know how correct it is but I was also told that 30mA for 30µs directly across the heart was enough to stop it.
Blimey Michael
That's a lucky one.
Have you got any X men type powers following that?
I mean, just dont point at anything in a meaningful way for a while...
Bob
Hi again Michael,
No replies and no 'thank yous' so hope all OK with you today and you've gone to work as normal.
Did find this on the volt/amp front....
https://www.dribin.org/dave/blog/archives/2003/12/29/amps_vs_volts/ (https://www.dribin.org/dave/blog/archives/2003/12/29/amps_vs_volts/)
I've often cut hedges and strimmed in the rain as it's my job and had to be done. Think I'll think twice in the future.
Please let us know you're alright.
Cheers weave :beers:
Quote from: chrism on May 13, 2019, 12:18:07 PM
Quote from: Malc on May 13, 2019, 11:40:37 AM
Quote from: broadsword on May 13, 2019, 10:00:58 AM
A cautionary tale, however the grim reaper was cheated out of another victim.
45,000 volts is that AC or DC ? Not sure if it's the volts or amps that does the damage.
It's DC and the current causes the damage. It only requires 50volts between The fingertips to cause enough current to flow through the heart to stop it.
As I was told years ago, "It's the volts that jolts but the mils that kills".
Don't know how correct it is but I was also told that 30mA for 30µs directly across the heart was enough to stop it.
Absolutely.
I'm an apprentice trained electrician, and all these things were drummed into us. On household electrics I always meter before disconnect and after. Just because I've thrown a fuse/switch doesn't mean some chump hasn't wired it badly before. As a kid you stick your tongue on a PP3 for that 'tingle', four weeks into an electrical apprenticeship and I never did it again!
I've had a few belts from HT systems in my early motoring career, remember Gunsons ColourTune? Never been a problem. I've only had three domestic mains voltage belts in thirty years, one from turning on a chiller with a wet hand ( :smackedface:), one from taking the end of an extension lead to help a builder forgetting the other end was still plugged in (serves me right for being helpful), and the other was when a client turned the electric back on (the bill went
UP).
The thing is, on a house, most consumer units have a 'trip' which protects you from stuff like this, but on a vehicle/hedge cutter there's no protection.
Quote from: weave on May 13, 2019, 12:43:26 PM
Hi again Michael,
No replies and no 'thank yous' so hope all OK with you today and you've gone to work as normal.
Did find this on the volt/amp front....
https://www.dribin.org/dave/blog/archives/2003/12/29/amps_vs_volts/ (https://www.dribin.org/dave/blog/archives/2003/12/29/amps_vs_volts/)
I've often cut hedges and strimmed in the rain as it's my job and had to be done. Think I'll think twice in the future.
Please let us know you're alright.
Cheers weave :beers:
Ah, been out working this morning, just got home for lunch.
All good now though. Thanks for all your comments.
:thankyousign:
I always used to do my own electrics in my houses and flats - putting in extensions to ring mains and the like, but I was never happy doing plumbing.
Talking to a plumber, however, he said to me "if I get it wrong, someone gets wet - if a sparky gets it wrong, someone can die".
That's obviously why places like Australia (I believe) had strict rules on who could do electrical work in the home long before we in the UK did.
Anyway, I don't do it now.
Dr B Van der Graff
QuoteThe thing is, on a house, most consumer units have a 'trip' which protects you from stuff like
and if the electrical distribution companys hadnt been so tight and used a proper neutral wire along with the 3 phases on there lines instead of using mother earth as the return path we wouldnt need RCD's and the shock risk would be reduced.
Hi Michael,
Sorry to sound like my mother used to but glad all's well. I'll have a party later with indoor fireworks to celebrate :D
Cheers weave :beers:
Quote from: Bob G on May 13, 2019, 01:27:16 PM
I always used to do my own electrics in my houses and flats - putting in extensions to ring mains and the like, but I was never happy doing plumbing.
Talking to a plumber, however, he said to me "if I get it wrong, someone gets wet - if a sparky gets it wrong, someone can die".
That's obviously why places like Australia (I believe) had strict rules on who could do electrical work in the home long before we in the UK did.
Anyway, I don't do it now.
Dr B Van der Graff
There are certain things I can and can't do in customers houses due to certification issues, so I only do 'minor works' these days, so I can't change a consumer until, despite 30 years experience, however an untrained home owner is perfectly fine to do it!
I've got relatives in Aus, your not allowed to do your own electrics, but you can buy all the stuff in DIY stores, and plenty seem to just do it anyway.
Quote from: themadhippy on May 13, 2019, 01:27:54 PM
QuoteThe thing is, on a house, most consumer units have a 'trip' which protects you from stuff like
and if the electrical distribution companys hadnt been so tight and used a proper neutral wire along with the 3 phases on there lines instead of using mother earth as the return path we wouldnt need RCD's and the shock risk would be reduced.
It would certainly help, your not wrong.
Quote from: weave on May 13, 2019, 01:34:25 PM
Hi Michael,
Sorry to sound like my mother used to but glad all's well. I'll have a party later with indoor fireworks to celebrate :D
Cheers weave :beers:
Don't eat all the hot dogs with your fireworks, the seasons not over yet.
:D
It turns out that the wife does actually care about me, she wouldn't let me out of her sight yesterday when we got back, and even poked me awake in the night to make sure I was only asleep. Oddly enough I wasn't that impressed by that!
;D
Quote from: joe cassidy on May 13, 2019, 11:37:42 AM
Quote from: Newportnobby on May 13, 2019, 09:45:41 AM
Cripes, Michael :o 45000 volts :goggleeyes:
I think I'd be on a cloud playing my harp after that.
I admire your optimism Mick :)
:laughabovepost:
The trick is to drink plenty of Red Bull, Joe (other disgusting energy drinks are available)
I've worked on HV up to 150,000 and current up to err um effectively unlimited. :goggleeyes: , even a few minutes ago I was working on 1000VDC, and in about an hour on 10 amps. Being careful is part of the job being an Ex Radar now calibration technician.
Years ago in the RAF we had a Station Warant Officer (= RSM in Army) who wouldn't accept that you had to work with a hand in your pocket standing on an unpolished rubber mat. After creaping up behind someone and shouting "GET YOUR HAND OUT OF YOUR POCKET!!!" he got banned from all technical buildings unless accompanied by the Station Commander. The ban followed him to all futher stations as well..
Excuse me I have to record in the next measurement..
100ua DC through a 10k OHM Resistor (well 10000.165 Ohms) and the voltage result is .. 1.0000111 VDC
Quote from: Newportnobby on May 13, 2019, 01:57:16 PM
Quote from: joe cassidy on May 13, 2019, 11:37:42 AM
Quote from: Newportnobby on May 13, 2019, 09:45:41 AM
Cripes, Michael :o 45000 volts :goggleeyes:
I think I'd be on a cloud playing my harp after that.
I admire your optimism Mick :)
:laughabovepost:
The trick is to drink plenty of Red Bull, Joe (other disgusting energy drinks are available)
I suspect he was commenting on your delusion that you can play the harp!
:D
Quote from: The Q on May 13, 2019, 02:01:12 PM
Excuse me I have to record in the next measurement..
100ua DC through a 10k OHM Resistor (well 10000.165 Ohms) and the voltage result is .. 1.0000111 VDC
Oooo, you go steady!
Quote from: emjaybee on May 13, 2019, 02:12:41 PM
Quote from: Newportnobby on May 13, 2019, 01:57:16 PM
Quote from: joe cassidy on May 13, 2019, 11:37:42 AM
Quote from: Newportnobby on May 13, 2019, 09:45:41 AM
Cripes, Michael :o 45000 volts :goggleeyes:
I think I'd be on a cloud playing my harp after that.
I admire your optimism Mick :)
:laughabovepost:
The trick is to drink plenty of Red Bull, Joe (other disgusting energy drinks are available)
I suspect he was commenting on your delusion that you can play the harp!
:D
Quote from: The Q on May 13, 2019, 02:01:12 PM
Excuse me I have to record in the next measurement..
100ua DC through a 10k OHM Resistor (well 10000.165 Ohms) and the voltage result is .. 1.0000111 VDC
Oooo, you go steady!
I am..
I've measured 100uA , -100uA, 190uA, -190uA, 1mA, -1mA.
I've just turned on 1.9mA through a 1 kOhm resistor, steadily working my way up to 10 A through a 0.1 Ohm resistor..
Quote from: Bob G on May 13, 2019, 01:27:16 PM
I always used to do my own electrics in my houses and flats - putting in extensions to ring mains and the like, but I was never happy doing plumbing.
Talking to a plumber, however, he said to me "if I get it wrong, someone gets wet - if a sparky gets it wrong, someone can die".
A local restaurant was being refurbished and someone broke in in the night, stealing all the copper piping. They didn't turn off the water and the high flow into the cellar undermined the partly refurbished building, causing it to collapse! Water can and does do a LOT of damage, while not many people are actually electrocuted. When part P was brought in, it was estimated that all the additional paperwork, regulations and 10s of millions of pounds a year would save up to 3 lives per year - but more than that were expected to die from house fires caused by electrics that people avoided upgrading because of the extra expense! Many of the restrictions of Part P have been rolled back these days anyway.
Dont you love part P.I used to regularly play with multiple 100kva + gen sets and temporary mains hook ups upto 400A,both indoor and outside,without any problems,however even though i was more qualified than most of the council bods inspecting the work i wasnt allowed to change the light fitting in my toilet.Feels like those 5 years learning the trade properly were worthless.
Wow
A cautionary tail indeed, glad all is ok now though.
QuoteI'm an apprentice trained electrician, and all these things were drummed into us. On household electrics I always meter before disconnect and after. Just because I've thrown a fuse/switch doesn't mean some chump hasn't wired it badly before. As a kid you stick your tongue on a PP3 for that 'tingle', four weeks into an electrical apprenticeship and I never did it again!
Mate, as you may recall, my current abode has given us some "interesting" times with leccy. Due to said clownishness, if it wasn't for rubber handled screwdriver I would have had an almighty belt from a mains socket here...
Skyline2uk