Hi
I am not sure if this has been asked before but after a while searching I couldn't find an an answer on my question. The question that I like to ask to the experience N gauge users is as follow.
The space in my box room is limited but I can have a base board of (8ft x 3ft). I was thinking of a nice fiddle yard where I can do some shunting and maybe include a run around. However after looking for some ideas for a layout I also read in some articles that n gauge is not very suited for shunting as the locomotives are not very reliable for low speed. Further you have to keep the track very clean otherwise the loco's are not running smooth at all. The question I have, is this true or have the technology advanced that much that we don't have to worry about this anymore?
Hope some experience users can give me some answers.
Thanks
"Fiddle yard" is usually the term used for a hidden storage area "off-scene" where you swap different trains on and off the layout.
Good quality modern N gauge locos are certainly capable of slow running for shunting, especially those fitted with flywheels which help smooth out any "cogging" of the motor at low speed and also help negotiate any tiny dirt spots on the track. I run European N models, my favourite shunters are flywheel fitted diesels like the one in my profile photo. The Minitrix models of these are superb!
Live frog pointwork will give much more reliable slow running compared to dead (plastic) frogs and I would definitely recommend live frogs for shunting layouts.
DCC also helps due to the constant voltage in the track. (I still run DC though as I have a very large fleet of older locos). Some DCC decoders can be fitted with "stay alive" capacitors which act like an electronic flywheel, keeping power to the decoder during short interruptions in power pickup from the track.
Coupling/uncoupling is probably one of the main considerations. The defacto standard Rapido coupling can work ok as long as the stock has reasonable weight, but maybe not the best looking and some folk prefer other coupling systems - you'll get a variety of opinions on the subject. You can use thin wire probes, dentist tools etc. as uncoupling hooks, or you can try one of the magnetic uncoupling systems.
You should always aim to keep track and wheels clean for optimal running, that is true in any scale/gauge of model railway which uses track power.
Hello flamehunter, and welcome to the forum :wave:
Like the post above, I'd plump for electrofrog points and the smallest are Peco code 55. As I don't mix track codes I'd therefore use code 55 track throughout. An alternative is Kato Unitrack but then again some locos have problems with the #4 points and use of the larger #6 points will reduce the size of any track plan. Please be patient, read a lot (using the 'Search' button on the main toolbar) and ask questions. The only foolish one is the one you don't ask!
8x3.... Quite a lot of n-space.
Keep it single track. 1 station with some goods handling. Another small station just to allow crossing and overtaking of trains and a few small industries can fit.
Keep the trains short. Eg. Continental era 2....
Either DCC or DC with a PWM controller.
Coupling/uncoupling preferably on the straight pieces
G'day from Australia, flamehunter, and welcome to the NGF! :thumbsup:
The main issue with N gauge shunting is not so much the running, more so the coupling system. The supplied Rapido type couplers on most RTR stock are not the best for the job.
There are alternatives, such as the Dapol product, but this of course means modifying your stock.
Many people keep their stock in fixed rakes and only modify the couplings at each end.
We have many forum members with experience in this field, so help is here when you need it! :thumbsup:
Hi flamehunter and welcome to the forum. As you can see from the above posts, there is a wealth of information to be gleaned from the forum members. :thumbsup:
I like shunting layouts to the extent that I have them in N, 00 and SM32. I will keep comments to N and 00. These are both inglenooks.
N Gauge - I use the peco uncoupler system. This works very well and requires only minimum changes to stock (fitting the metal arm to the coupler). I fit the lift arm at one end only and keep my stock the same way around so that the train can be broken at any point. Note that this system does not work very well with sprung couplings. I use a barrier wagon with peco couplings between the shunter and loco so same messing the loco couplings up.
I run models on bog standard DC power supply. Most locos can run at lower speeds (even older Farish) and I mean they can crawl. However, track and wheels must be cleaned on a very regular basis to achieve this.
Modern larger locos will generally be better. Modern 060's though are very light in comparison to older Farish and are not generally as good at slow running. I have (yesterday) had a good running session with a new farish 08. I only have one of these locos so cannot compare against other 08's. Was mine a lucky purchase?
You do not state your era. I run mainly GWR. Dapol's new 57's are good at low speed (i have 5) but their 2-6-2 is useless at this. The Terrier is also too light to get consistent good low speed running. The 14xx has far too high starting speed. It is ironically the older Farish small locos that are better at low speed shunting.
I have never done DCC but reports are that this is good for low speed.
00 - I again use bod standard DC. I use three link chains and a coupling hook attached to a small torch.
All my 00 locos are 'newer' stock and all (terriers, 57xx and 08) run superbly at crawling speed and I find that track and wheel cleaning does not need such regularity as N gauge.
Personal thoughts, if you want a larger layout with added shunting N gauge is ideal as long as track is laid flat and kept clean. As for the locos you use, if I have not named them, someone who has one will be able to comment.
Quote from: elmo on December 24, 2018, 04:30:31 AM
Modern larger locos will generally be better. Modern 060's though are very light in comparison to older Farish and are not generally as good at slow running. I have (yesterday) had a good running session with a new farish 08. I only have one of these locos so cannot compare against other 08's. Was mine a lucky purchase?
The one I have is certainly a very good runner, and I don't recall ever hearing people complain about this model. It has a diecast body which gives it a bit of weight; I was surprised to find mine would haul a 5-coach rake up my incline, which is what I expect of mainline locos, but not smaller ones.
Just made a list of my small locos marking them for their slow running/shunting capabilities. Hope this is of some help:
Fariah (poole) 57xx – good slow running if wheels are kept clean. These can sometimes be a dog and need a full clean up (rear wheel wipers) but generally very good.
Farish 94xx (Poole) – I have 2. One is very poor at lower speeds despite what I have tried to do. The other is good.
Farish 61xx (Poole) – have 2 of these. Both good at low speeds.
Farish BR class 14 – have 2 – both very good at slow running and shunting.
Farish BR 03 & 04 – mixed bag. This is very light due to its size – cannot get crawling pace out of them.
Farish (poole) J94 – purchased second-hand years ago – faultless slow running.
Farish 08 (modern) – very good all-rounder.
Dapol Terrier – have loads of these, my fav all time loco – sadly due to the light weight not very good for shunting, all are quite hesitant to move at times – very susceptible do miniscule dirt on track, pickups and wheels.
Dapol 57xx – now we are talking – very good at low speed start stop (note some cleaning of the packaging grease will improve these locos running).
Dapol gwr 2-6-2 – forget. I have 4 of these, not geared for low speed running. Good for urban passenger but forget shunting.
Elmo
My exhibition layout Tremierten was built with remote uncoupling in mind and I have over the past 2 years got it to the point where shunting is about 90% hands off, I use the gaugemaster system - see the thread on Tremierten here https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=26009.15 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=26009.15) or see the article in the N gauge society journal no 6/17.
hope this helps,
Alex
I've adopted the Dapol magnetic couplers as standard. Their conversion kits for non NEM stock is versatile. As I run diesels, all of which have all wheel pick up and drive, all of my shunting is successfully hands off. My only concern is that the so called delayed un-coupling can be a bit hit and miss but for my layout that's seldom an operational problem.
I like to thank all members for their answers and their advise, it gives me a lot to think about. Now I can start the process of thinking of my layout, does anybody know a good site where I can get some ideas of layouts that have a shunting area and may be a run about. I just got the go ahead of my wife to use the spare room for my layout so the size to play with is 12 feet X 5.5 feet :claphappy:
Thanks
lots of friendly people here
glad i joined in. there are a few of us who meet in small groups, shunt, run, operate stock, discuss each others, have a cuppa and talk trains. hailstone 's thread and advice has got me thinking. enjoy christmas
Quote from: flamehunter on December 25, 2018, 04:46:29 PM
I just got the go ahead of my wife to use the spare room for my layout so the size to play with is 12 feet X 5.5 feet :claphappy:
Thanks
That's great (whatever it might have cost you ;)) :thumbsup:
Please ensure you can reach all areas, though.
Quote from: flamehunter on December 25, 2018, 04:46:29 PM
I like to thank all members for their answers and their advise, it gives me a lot to think about. Now I can start the process of thinking of my layout, does anybody know a good site where I can get some ideas of layouts that have a shunting area and may be a run about. I just got the go ahead of my wife to use the spare room for my layout so the size to play with is 12 feet X 5.5 feet :claphappy:
Thanks
If you are not exclusively on "Island-layouts"... then this database with search options (unfortunately in German only) might give clues on layout-plans: http://www.moba-trickkiste.de/wie-macht-man-planen/datenbank-gleisplaene.html (http://www.moba-trickkiste.de/wie-macht-man-planen/datenbank-gleisplaene.html)
Btw: Do not only search with N-Gauge as search criteria, the other gauges might also give an idea on possible layouts, just requires that you work on resizing the plans to N-Gauge
Another one is here (English): http://mrr.trains.com/how-to/track-plan-database (http://mrr.trains.com/how-to/track-plan-database)
Kato (USA) in English: http://www.katousa.com/track-plans/n-plans.html (http://www.katousa.com/track-plans/n-plans.html)
Also consider splitting your layout in modules (best using one of the available module-norms). Just in case you have to give up the room....
It helps if you are modelling modern era because the bogie diesels are generally more reliable (although some of the older Bachmann Farish CO-CO ones and the DMUs I rewire to fix the crappy thin brass power transfer strips with fine wire). Later ones have a different system which is usually better but can often be tweaked a bit. Modern era is the easiest - nowdays shunting is often done by class 66 locos and all you need to do that properly is a decoder that lets you do flashing lights as well as forward/rear/off.
For the 03 and 04 check all the wheels pick up reliably with a meter and adjust if needed. Many arrive with pickups wrongly adjusted. Extra weight will help (and decent pointwork is a must for a short wheelbase - the classic Peco insulfrog stuff is awful in N). A second option though is to permanently attach a small flat 'match' wagon to the 03/04 if you are modelling into the BR blue era. Amusingly this was done on the real system for exactly the same reason - except they were having problems with shunters disappearing off the train detection systems.
The match wagons were usually either flat or just a wagon chassis, either easy to model. In later days many of them had wasp stripes which sounds hard to paint but Fox sell black stripes on clear so you paint it yellow and cut a bit of decal to go over it so it's not hard. You'd get away with primarily dirt/rust colour too.
Some people do similar things with brake vans and other small shunting locos. That also has the advantage that if you squash hard you can get DCC sound and extra pickups into a brake van.
If you've got a match wagon you can fit metal wheels, pickups and fine wire links (transformer wire is good) to the loco itself. If using very thin decoder wire instead use black, bend it down below the buffer beam and it looks like you modelled the brake pipes 8)
For DCC make sure you use a decent decoder and one that either lets you set it, or defaults to continuing at the previous speed after a momentary power interruption. CT used to be best here, Zimo may well nowdays hold the crown.
Other than that - cleanliness. I don't use plastic wheeled stock of any kind on a small layout and I clean it regularly with the rough side of old cereal packets include the inside edges of the rails not just the top. During operation I've got a minitrix track cleaning wagon if needed (15500) which isnt quite UK but will do until I tweak the body a bit.
That (plus very occasional use of the strategic gentle hip bump of the board) seems to work well.
Much of it is about weight though. I've got a pair of probably 40 year old N gauge 0-4-0 tank locos with white metal bodies and they will run over stuff modern locos struggle over and I keep a Minitrix 47 to run my main track cleaning train because it'll run over dirty track reliably and can haul far more heavy stuff than the modern locos.
Alan
Some great advice there, Alan. Thanks for posting! :thumbsup: