We are in the throes of getting contents insurance renewal quotes and of course that must cover our various collections including the railway.
Slightly odd perhaps but we have made a point of listing our main collection purchases so we have a pretty good idea of their total value. Hard to calculate a true replacement cost as some things are limited runs or discontinued items.
I know there are 'specialists' who can insure almost anything for a fee but excluding them, has anyone got suggestions or recommendations?
Dave G
Most months in the back half of Railway modeller magazine there is an advertisment from a Model railway insurer. I have no experience of them myself though.
Quote from: The Q on November 23, 2018, 10:05:52 AM
Most months in the back half of Railway modeller magazine there is an advertisment from a Model railway insurer. I have no experience of them myself though.
This insurance company comes up many times in Google search. Link below to Railway Magazine with info on Magnate model railway insurance.
https://www.railwaymagazinemodelling.co.uk/model-railway-insurance/ (https://www.railwaymagazinemodelling.co.uk/model-railway-insurance/)
Not used them myself but I am considering getting insurance.
:beers:
Like Dave G I have kept an account of all my N Gauge items - makes for frightening reading and needs to be kept away from the eyes of Mrs Chief Accountant - so can make a reasonably good estimate of a new-fit-old replacement value. Obviously some things can never be replaced like for like.
So when it comes to household insurance renewal I simply make my insurer aware of that 'collection' value, and get cover under my standard household policy.
I also keep photographs of all (well, most) of the items. Not manufacturers shots or anything, but of the item actually in my possession.
Hopefully I will never have to test the policy!
Yes Magnet is the one,
I do however work on the principle of can I afford to loose the collection or come to that anything else.
So my house is insured,
The car is, not because I couldn't afford to loose it, but if you ran into a bus, think of the compensation you'd need to pay with all those passengers (plus it's almost a legal requirement).
Similarly when we used to breed Rough Collies, we didn't go for fully comprehensive including medical insurance. That would have cost us £600 a year at the time, instead we went for third party only, which for up to 20 dogs only cost £20. We saved the difference and that paid for anything we had to pay to the vet, and it was not long before we had a huge surplus.
So is my layout insured, No, it would be a huge loss to take, but financially I could afford it.
Like many Clubs, I suspect, we use Magnet Insurance for the MRC insurance and exhibition insurance. As members of the Chiltern Model Railway Association the club is entitled to 10% discount on premiums. Our members can also claim a discount on any personal layout and stock that they insure themselves through the company.
Why not check if your contents insurance covers your models before buying separate cover?
Third party car insurance is a legal requirement...
I'd generally make sure it's covered on your contents insurance, which probably requires a conversation with them. There are often limits on what a "collection" entails, although I've generally been told that they mean things like a stamp or coin collection in a book which is effectively one item, rather than a 'collection' of models.
Where Magnet (or other specialist insurers) are particularly useful is if you're exhibiting or taking items to a club or other place away from home where you may have reason to make a claim.
I've used Magnet to cover any forum Meet Ups but my own collection is insured with my household insurance as exactly that - a collection. My music (vinyl, CDs etc) is also insured as a collection.
Quote from: njee20 on November 23, 2018, 11:22:20 AM
There are often limits on what a "collection" entails, although I've generally been told that they mean things like a stamp or coin collection in a book which is effectively one item, rather than a 'collection' of models.
Yes, my household insurer said the same, model railway stuff doesn't need to be declared as a "collection" as it's not something which would be markedly diminished in value if one item was lost/stolen. We just need to make sure there is enough cover for the total.
My collection is covered by our house contents insurance. At the time of taking out the policy and at every renewal point, we declare that I have a model railway collection with a total value of several thousand £ and can supply an itemised inventory. The response is always the same: "If this is a collection of individual and separate items, we don't need any special info. Should you make a claim, then at that time let us know the details of those items you're claiming for.". Our policy is with Legal & General.
Just to be clear, I don't insure my n Gauge items as a 'collection' in the sense of the insurers policy wording definition, i just made them aware of my collection of related items and their probable value. This was following a suggestion from an underwriter I know from when I worked in the insurance business back in the day. As she said, better they know what they are covering than not - to save problems in case of a claim.
Quote from: njee20 on November 23, 2018, 11:22:20 AM
Third party car insurance is a legal requirement...
Actually it's not, there is one legal loop hole, Someone I knew many years ago used it, you do have to be a multimillionaire though. You have to tie up a VERY large amount of money in a bank acount specifically to pay for any 3rd party damages . So effectively you are insuring yourself. Of course you are still earning interest on the money in the bank, so long term providing you don't hit anything, you come out of it very well. Some very big companies used to do this, whether or not they still do I don't know.
There's no way that's permissible now. Your car (rather than you) must have valid insurance. Hence the motor insurance database. You can have millions of third party insurance cover (nearly all home insurance policies include it), but it won't help you if you're in a car.
Quote from: daffy on November 23, 2018, 12:35:12 PM
Just to be clear, I don't insure my n Gauge items as a 'collection' in the sense of the insurers policy wording definition, i just made them aware of my collection of related items and their probable value. This was following a suggestion from an underwriter I know from when I worked in the insurance business back in the day. As she said, better they know what they are covering than not - to save problems in case of a claim.
Clarifying things is never a bad idea if you're unsure!
Quote from: njee20 on November 23, 2018, 01:38:52 PM
Clarifying things is never a bad idea if you're unsure!
I'm not unsure. I'm fully sured. :)
I'd also advise asking for anything in writing too if you're speaking to your insurer, particularly on slightly odd risks. Not necessarily meaning model railways, but if you feel the need to clarify anything, just ask the person to send you an email confirmation. Never hurts if you have reason to claim.
Home insurance is a volume business, I used to work for a major insurer and "underwriting" is nothing more than a call centre, your policy isn't actually being looked at by anyone in the main. Obviously product knowledge is generally very good, but plenty of examples of a company reneging on something down the line without written confirmation.
Just as a matter of interest, while changing my household insurance this year, the company I eventually settled on, which gave the best quote, also noticed I had my motor policy with them and as a result gave me an extra discount.
For a long time I trusted my regular contents insurance. I have listed all my stock though and estimated replacement cost - difficult for kits, modified stuff and the layouts themselves - and hoped for the best. My stock goes out to shows with both club and my own layouts and of course the exhibition host should (?) have adequate cover. However I began to be a bit nervous not least as there was no cover while in transit. So I now cover the railways and stock with Magnet - c £95. Not cheap perhaps but saves arguments with Swintons my domestic insurers at present.
As already mentioned home contents covers a model railway collection kept in the home. However on renewal I always get the company I am taking out cover with to confirm this by email.
John Lewis were really good but due to their increases this year through burst water pipe claims I couldn't warrant paying an extra 70 quid!
Limits on out building cover is definitely one to check. Lots of insurers have a limit on how much they'll pay for shed/garage contents, for those who house their railways in out buildings. I recall it's £3000 with the AA for example, which would be easily surpassed by a modest collection.
My household insurance has limitations on "collections" (which will include model railway equipment) and on items kept in outbuildings (and my model railway is going to be built in a large shed, albeit an insulated one with double glazing and British Standard compliant locks).
I took out an insurance policy with Magnet, which covers my model railway equipment in the shed fully.
As said above, check with your insurer, I've never been with one who deemed a model railway a collection in the policy definition sense, but there's every chance that's not universal. The big risk with sheds as discussed and as you have identified is a limit on out building cover.
Quote from: njee20 on November 30, 2018, 11:18:40 AM
As said above, check with your insurer, I've never been with one who deemed a model railway a collection in the policy definition sense, but there's every chance that's not universal. The big risk with sheds as discussed and as you have identified is a limit on out building cover.
Agreed. When I approached my contents insurers with my model railway collection, they didn't view it as a collection and juist advised to include the replacement value in the total contents insured figure. I did get that in writing for piece of mind.
A telephone conversation with our insurers advised that as the model railway is made up of many components, it is not considered a Collection.
The explanation was that should one or several items be 'lost', that loss, unlike an item from a specified set of anything, does not affect the value of the remainder.
Removing the railway valuation from the Collections listing (but ensuring the total value is added to the general contents) reduced the premium by a few pounds.
I should mention that my railway is in the house rather than a dedicated external building.
I pass this info on without any specialist knowledge but hope it's useful.
Dave G
I just got an online quote from Magnet and they want £161.28 to insure my layout and stock! I really must check my home insurance, something I've been meaning to do for ages.
You must have a load of stuff then. I got an online quote of £67.20 for a value of £12k. No public liability though.
:beers:
I'm not even sure how I'd value it. I've got a tally of stock replacement cost, but obviously you've got the layout itself, although most of the cost is a time investment you can't value.
Quote from: The Q on November 23, 2018, 12:45:10 PM
Quote from: njee20 on November 23, 2018, 11:22:20 AM
Third party car insurance is a legal requirement...
Actually it's not, there is one legal loop hole, Someone I knew many years ago used it, you do have to be a multimillionaire though. You have to tie up a VERY large amount of money in a bank acount specifically to pay for any 3rd party damages . So effectively you are insuring yourself. Of course you are still earning interest on the money in the bank, so long term providing you don't hit anything, you come out of it very well. Some very big companies used to do this, whether or not they still do I don't know.
:hellosign: Just to clear this up the very large company who I drive for do have their own insurance.
regards Derek.
Well yes, obviously companies have motor fleet insurance, which means you don't need to name drivers, you still have to have cover for all vehicles though, it's just under a fleet policy. That still doesn't mean that if you're a millionaire (or anyone) you can somehow just have liability insurance though which makes you compliant. Again, it's the vehicles which need insurance not the person.
But we digress! Although... if a millionaire destroyed your garage in his car thinking he was somehow insured then you may be a bit annoyed!
I would.... me layout is the garage! ;D
That was my point, and a tenuous attempt at getting us back on topic.
Hi all,
Just read through it all. It has crossed my mind but I'm rubbish at sensible things like insurance, so must do something about it. I'll have a word with Mrs. Sensible when she awakes.
She has lots of marine fish (4 tanks) and I think they're insured so will find out where I stand on the home contents.
Thanks for making me think about it.
Cheers weave :beers:
PS. To stop people going off topic again, my van is insured, fully comp. I'm not that unsensible :no: :)
Quote from: njee20 on December 01, 2018, 07:38:19 AM
Well yes, obviously companies have motor fleet insurance, which means you don't need to name drivers, you still have to have cover for all vehicles though, it's just under a fleet policy. That still doesn't mean that if you're a millionaire (or anyone) you can somehow just have liability insurance though which makes you compliant. Again, it's the vehicles which need insurance not the person.
Hopefully I can finally put this matter to bed and we can get back to layout and collection insurance, which is not mandatory. ;)
The Road Traffic Act 1988 makes it quite clear that you can in fact effectively self-insure for third party risks.
Provision 143 covers the third party requirement:
"143 Users of motor vehicles to be insured or secured against third-party risks."u
BUT....
Provision 144 covers the exceptions to this requirement, the first of which is quoted here:
"144 Exceptions from requirement of third-party insurance or security.
(1)Section 143 of this Act does not apply to a vehicle owned by a person who has deposited and keeps deposited with the Accountant General of the [F1Senior Courts] the sum of [F2£500,000], at a time when the vehicle is being driven under the owner's control.
[F3(1A)The Secretary of State may by order made by statutory instrument substitute a greater sum for the sum for the time being specified in subsection (1) above.
(1B)No order shall be made under subsection (1A) above unless a draft of it has been laid before and approved by resolution of each House of Parliament.]"
So @The Q (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=6067) is quite right.
:beers:
Put me to bed! ;)
Well much like than man in orthopaedic shoes, I stand corrected. I even worked in insurance for years and wasn't aware of that, it wasn't motor in my defence! Apologies to The Q!
Very interesting provision. Originally it was only £15,000, but after 3 months they realised that a lot of people could put that amount forward, but given the liability of a potential claim could be millions it was swiftly raised!
Anyway, yes, layout insurance, which is definitely not mandatory!
:laughabovepost: :laughabovepost:
Daffy:
My post was just a comment reflecting my attitude to all that sort of stuff, which unfortunately is a part of everyday life.
My daughter is a lawyer and makes her living out of that sort of stuff.
Unfortunately it bores me to tears, and even more so when I attended the funeral of a good mate yesterday.
It's so trivial at the end of everything. :beers:
Having suitably depressed half the forum, cheers! Have a beer! :beers:
:beers: :beers: :beers:
- and it's only 8:45am here! :D
Here in Australia we always have a dilemma...
Red or white wine on the cornflakes ;D
A difficult choice, George!
Meanwhile, I'm quite pleased the topic stirred a bit of interest and perhaps nudged a few folk to think about protecting their precious railways.
It would seem that we should all ask how our insurers consider our kit. Can it be included in the usual Contents section or if it needs a specific ID under a Collection?
A reminder also that if we switch insurer, ask that key question again.
Have a splendid weekend. :beers:
Dave G
Quote from: Bealman on December 01, 2018, 08:47:57 AM
Here in Australia we always have a dilemma...
Red or white wine on the cornflakes ;D
Sweet white on the cornflakes, full bodied red on the side. What's the dilemma? Bunch of Ockers ;) ;)
Cheers weave :beers:
Quote from: austinbob on November 30, 2018, 03:49:34 PM
You must have a load of stuff then. I got an online quote of £67.20 for a value of £12k. No public liability though.
:beers:
I didn't opt for public liability either
Current stock levels are as follows:
Locomotives: 151
Coaches: 222
Wagons: 437
Pre-assembled buildings: 160
So no, not a lot of stock really :goggleeyes:
My wife just saw these stats @Trainfish (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=262) :(
Her reaction towards me, not voiced, but clear as crystal, was "Now don't you go getting any silly ideas about buying more stock Mike."
:( :(
@daffy (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=5634) There's more when I look at the rest of my spreadsheet
133 Oxford diecast vehicles
18 BT Models
29 buildings which have ended up on the wrong tab for some reason
52 Tomytec trucks
2 Vortrak controllers
The list goes on. There are of course lots of scenic items not included in these stats, Bachmann figures, track, electrical/electronical stuff etc
Maybe you need to supply Mrs daffy with a Christmas list
Quote from: Trainfish on December 01, 2018, 12:05:51 PM
@daffy (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=5634) There's more when I look at the rest of my spreadsheet
133 Oxford diecast vehicles
18 BT Models
29 buildings which have ended up on the wrong tab for some reason
52 Tomytec trucks
2 Vortrak controllers
The list goes on. There are of course lots of scenic items not included in these stats, Bachmann figures, track, electrical/electronical stuff etc
Maybe you need to supply Mrs daffy with a Christmas list
Methinks the list will be in use for many, many Christmas's to come. How much I can reduce its bulk during the remaining 364 days of the year remains to be seen. ;) :D
Quote from: Trainfish on December 01, 2018, 11:35:17 AM
Quote from: austinbob on November 30, 2018, 03:49:34 PM
You must have a load of stuff then. I got an online quote of £67.20 for a value of £12k. No public liability though.
:beers:
I didn't opt for public liability either
Current stock levels are as follows:
Locomotives: 151
Coaches: 222
Wagons: 437
Pre-assembled buildings: 160
So no, not a lot of stock really :goggleeyes:
Only £160 for all that. Sooo... CHeap. :D