I received the April (#167) issue of Model Rail yesterday, and noticed in it two references that new N gauge was better than OO;
Firstly, the editor Ben Jones wrote "these Mk 1 (new Farish Mk1 BGs) are arguably better than Bachmanns highly regarded equivalent". He also mentioned in his editorial that "N gauge is arguably much more suited to multiple unit operation than OO or O". [He does seem to like his arguements :D ]
Secondly, Ben Ando, BBC corrspondent and MRs N gauge reporter and modeller wrote "... the model (Dapol NMT HST) is even better than Hornby's recent OO power cars."
Quite some endorsement, eh?
H.
i noticed those comments too, nice to see Model Rail talking about N gauge for once!
The datailing on N gauge models is pretty much up there with OO in most ways. Valve gear and rods on steam locos are generally still overscale and so are most wheels, but it is a compromise between looks and reliability and running qualities. Unfortunately the running of steam locos in British N doesn't begin to compare to newer OO models like Hornby's Railroad D49. Diesels on the other hand are often just as good runners as their OO equivalents.
Quote from: Elvinley on February 25, 2012, 07:39:34 AMUnfortunately the running of steam locos in British N doesn't begin to compare to newer OO models like Hornby's Railroad D49. Diesels on the other hand are often just as good runners as their OO equivalents.
So just like the prototype then - real steam locos didn't run particulalrly well, reliably or efficiently, that's why they got replaced by more efficient diesels and electrics. :smiley-laughing:
However, I'm sure that there are some who find their N gauge steamers run more than acceptably well. And there have been some steamy dogs in OO that have even been recalled.
H.
Quote from: H on February 25, 2012, 09:06:44 AM
Quote from: Elvinley on February 25, 2012, 07:39:34 AMUnfortunately the running of steam locos in British N doesn't begin to compare to newer OO models like Hornby's Railroad D49. Diesels on the other hand are often just as good runners as their OO equivalents.
So just like the prototype then - real steam locos didn't run particulalrly well, reliably or efficiently, that's why they got replaced by more efficient diesels and electrics. :smiley-laughing:
However, I'm sure that there are some who find their N gauge steamers run more than acceptably well. And there have been some steamy dogs in OO that have even been recalled.
H.
I own or have previously owned all the N steam apart from the Dapol B1 and B17 and none of them run as well as the latest OO. Also N gauge steam is far too prone to QC and reliability issues. Most modern Hornby steam runs like a dream.
Thanks for posting H. Certainly a great statement to put down for N Gauge. :)
The second statement (N gauge arguably more suited to multiple unit operation than 00 or 0) may be a comment on the adequacy or otherwise of the Rapido coupling, suggesting that loco-hauled operation is made difficult by problems with running round etc. Hopefully with the new Dapol coupling this N gauge problem will also be a thing of the past.
Don't believe everything you read in the press! :smiley-laughing:
OO will always have an advantage over N: more contact space between wheel and track = better running.
That is of course until someone invents digital radio controlled N gauge locos! :evil:
There are all sorts of laws-of-physics type reasons why the closer the model scale gets to the real thing, the more realistic will be its operation. However I agree with the previous post, that for D+E models at least the difference in running quality between N and 00 is negligible.
Quote from: moogle on February 25, 2012, 11:19:12 AM
Don't believe everything you read in the press! :smiley-laughing:
OO will always have an advantage over N: more contact space between wheel and track = better running.
It pays to read carefully too ;D the press report didn't actually say that the running performance was better, but rather more referring to the fact that the particular new rolling stock was better looking, detailed, accurate, etc. ;)
And, of course there are advantages that N has over OO.
H.
Quote from: H on February 25, 2012, 11:49:12 AM
Quote from: moogle on February 25, 2012, 11:19:12 AM
Don't believe everything you read in the press! :smiley-laughing:
OO will always have an advantage over N: more contact space between wheel and track = better running.
It pays to read carefully too ;D the press report didn't actually say that the running performance was better, but rather more referring to the fact that the particular new rolling stock was better looking, detailed, accurate, etc. ;)
And, of course there are advantages that N has over OO.
H.
Well I was pointing out the
only advantage that I can see! :smiley-laughing:
(others may see more)
Also, I was referring to the comments
after the OP, not just that or the press release.
Sorry for not being clearer! ;) ;D
:NGaugersRule:
For me, the space avantages and the impressive abilities of such small models has always been an attraction to N even before it started to look realistic in any way. I am eager to see how the new motored Farish will perform. The tender drives are generally good but it is not an ideal situation.
Quote from: H on February 25, 2012, 09:06:44 AM
Quote from: Elvinley on February 25, 2012, 07:39:34 AMUnfortunately the running of steam locos in British N doesn't begin to compare to newer OO models like Hornby's Railroad D49. Diesels on the other hand are often just as good runners as their OO equivalents.
So just like the prototype then - real steam locos didn't run particulalrly well, reliably or efficiently, that's why they got replaced by more efficient diesels and electrics. :smiley-laughing:
However, I'm sure that there are some who find their N gauge steamers run more than acceptably well. And there have been some steamy dogs in OO that have even been recalled.
H.
Hi H
i suspect that the 00 models have just as many QC issues in the round, like the Bachmann A1 motor burnout issue ans disintegrating mazak chassis blocks of the Hornby 31 diesels to name just two.
I have found the performance of the majority of latest N steam locos to be more than acceptable. I wonder how many 00 B1s from either Hornby or Bachmann could walk away with over 20 coaches like my Farish ones can? I think I know the answer to that.
As to the loco drive versus tender drive debate, there will always be those that insist the loco wheels are driven. In my humble opinion it is horses for courses. There are sound reasons for using a tender-drive in order to avoid compromising the loco body to fit a motor and mechanism, coupled to issues of adhesive weight. It will be interesting to see how the Std 5 and WD perform by comparison. Even if capable of good feats of haulage there will be many prototypes where tender drive is the only solution because the loco body is too small to fit even this 7mm dia coreless motor.
Regards
Roy
Why do all discussions in this Hobby have to decend to "mines better than your's" arguments???
If it's not X guage is better than Y gauge, is Manufacturer A is better than B or Steam is better than Diesel....
Why can't we just accept the truth that there are some gems and also some lemons in every scale and in every manufacturers range, and be happy for each other to carry on doing what suits them...
The examples in the OP are probably correct; in those two instances N Gauge is probably ahead of 00 but that does not in any way extrapolate to a blanket favouring on one scale over the other!
Paul
Quote from: PLD on February 26, 2012, 12:26:11 PM
Why do all discussions in this Hobby have to decend to "mines better than your's" arguments???
Get out of bed the wrong side this morning did we? ::) ;)
It's only natural for fans of ANYTHING, railway or otherwise, to find ways that their particular interest is 'better' than someone else's. It's a human trait of self-justification, and I see nothing in the posts above to indicate that any real argument is going on ;) This being an exclusively N gauge forum we're bound to try to find ways that our scale is better than another, especially as N is normally seen as being the poor relation lurking in the shadow of the all-conquering 00. It's called healthy competition and it's nice to see some railway magazines noticing the vast imporvements in N gauge models :)
Paul
Quote from: PLD on February 26, 2012, 12:26:11 PM
Why do all discussions in this Hobby have to decend to "mines better than your's" arguments???
Quite obviously they don't - not everything is such an argument.
Yet oddly enough discussion where people don't always agree with everything said is rampant on forums. But it's not necessarily an argument. Many people can live with and accept differences without over-reacting.
And quite often many people simply want re-assurance that they made the correct decision for themselves although whats correct for one doesn't have to be for another.
H.
A lot of it is subjective. One person's perfect runner is another's dog. Some people still buy ancient locos that were bad even by the standards of the day and I'm sure they happily watch them dart around their layouts. Healthy discussion is fine as long as it doesn't descent to insults.
Quote from: PLD on February 26, 2012, 12:26:11 PM
Why do all discussions in this Hobby have to decend to "mines better than your's" arguments???
If it's not X guage is better than Y gauge, is Manufacturer A is better than B or Steam is better than Diesel....
Why can't we just accept the truth that there are some gems and also some lemons in every scale and in every manufacturers range, and be happy for each other to carry on doing what suits them...
The examples in the OP are probably correct; in those two instances N Gauge is probably ahead of 00 but that does not in any way extrapolate to a blanket favouring on one scale over the other!
Paul
Hi Paul
I'm not sure why my comments justified such an attack in response?
In many ways I am agreeing with you. I was merely trying to balance the argument in saying that 00 is not perfect either, as there have been some very high profile issues and real "lemons".
True, my preferred scale is British N. For me the new Farish steam in particular ticks all the boxes in terms of looks, reliability and performance, I have not yet had one "dud". That said I also have small amounts of 0, 00 and even some old Triang TT, so my eyes are wide open as to the releative advantages and disadvantages of each scale.
For example, as many on this Forum wil have worked out I am a big fan of the LNER B1, I thought the Farish model was awesome, but I am just blown away by that exquisite Hornby model....
Roy
There are a few models where the N Gauge version is superior to the currently available version - the Class 150, Class 67, Class 86 and Mark 3 coaches. It's also worth looking at rolling stock prices - some coaches in OO are retailing at around £40-£50 now and these aren't even Pullmans or special editions.
As most N Gauge coaches are still under £20.00, it does make economic sense as well :)
Speaking personally, I don't think anyone should take a stance of 'mine is better than yours' as it is pointless and adds nothing to the discussion. It is great that 'high street' journals should recognise that some N gauge has improved beyond OO standards, but PLD is correct in saying it is not a cover all statement and he is also right in saying there is good and bad in both. There are also advantages to be had in both gauges but these should not be used to decry one or the other - horses for courses springs to mind.
I haven't seen anyone 'over-reacting' and hope I don't as I like a healthy debate without any finger pointing. We all have personal reasons for modelling what we do, and this should be accepted by everyone as an individual's right without question. Likewise, we all have personal opinions but unless it contributes to the thread i.e. it helps or benefits other members I would suggest it is kept personal and not aired.
On a positive note, one of the gems of N scale has to be the Farish 03 / 04 shunters. I have a few of these now and I think they compare very favourable with the oo versions as far as looks go, and run so well when they are adjusted correctly that they are a joy to operate. Good slow speed on them too. Silent runners. I can even run slowly over an express point with an insulfrog which must measure the good part of an inch with them! The only down side is that the pickups sometimes need adjusting from time to time after many hours of running. This is a delicate operation, but after a couple of times it is easily done in ten minutes.