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General Category => N Gauge Discussion => Topic started by: bluedepot on September 10, 2018, 10:35:40 PM

Title: rail served domestic coal yards 1980s and 90s
Post by: bluedepot on September 10, 2018, 10:35:40 PM
as part of searching for layout ideas i looked at quite a few speedlink era pictures today including speedlink coal which led me to look at coal yards.

what would be in a domestic coal yard?

an office building
coal staithes
sacks of coal
possibly some under cover storage
a loader / digger
flatbed lorry
weighbridge?
possibly a crane

anything else?

the up side of including a rail served coal yard is I have a sound fitted coal sector 37 and about 20 hea hoppers already. also it needn't be anything more than 2 sidings. the deliveries can be short trains -  even just a few wagons.

the downside is the speedlink coal network closed in 1990 so if i run trains for the late sectorisation era I'll maybe just have to pretend the yard is open but only road served now - but rail connection left in place.

any suggestions or can anyone suggest good pictures online?

I think the yard pictures i saw were for lincoln, washward heath, acton... and a few others i forget now.

what other wagons could I use? 16 and 21 ton presumably but anything else?

cheers

Tim
Title: Re: rail served domestic coal yards 1980s and 90s
Post by: Jim Martin on September 10, 2018, 11:54:15 PM
There was a topic on this subject on Another Forum a while back. You might find some ideas there: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/68853-domestic-coal-wagons-coal-yards-in-the-80s/page-1. (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/68853-domestic-coal-wagons-coal-yards-in-the-80s/page-1.)

If nothing else, there's a link to one of my favourite railway photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/28083135@N06/15122387846, (https://www.flickr.com/photos/28083135@N06/15122387846,) although it's a couple of years too early for you.

Jim
Title: Re: rail served domestic coal yards 1980s and 90s
Post by: bluedepot on September 11, 2018, 02:49:18 AM
thanks Jim

the flickr link didn't work unfortunately

what concerns me slightly is there aren't many pictures online and i never saw a coal yard in real life!

it seems I would need to have an under rail pit to discharge the coal into and then a conveyor belt to move the coal into storage hoppers. I presume there were a few hoppers to store various grade of coal? the discharge pit could be under cover or in the open judging from the few pictures I've seen.

for variety some 21t hoppers could be used as well I think? there were bottom discharging anyway.


Tim
Title: Re: rail served domestic coal yards 1980s and 90s
Post by: willike1958 on September 11, 2018, 05:59:36 AM
Hi, I have a similar coal yard project to undertake as part of my Houghtonbrook layout (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=10285.msg106134#msg106134 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=10285.msg106134#msg106134)) which will use a photo of Bradford Springmill Street - see below - as inspiration.
Kevin

(http://www.lostrailwayswestyorkshire.co.uk/images/donations/Michael%20Kaye/CO%20Michael%20Kaye%20-%20Paul%20Corrie/Bradford/bradford%20springmill%20street.jpg)
Title: Re: rail served domestic coal yards 1980s and 90s
Post by: GScaleBruce on September 11, 2018, 09:54:13 AM
So far as the Southern region (my own area of interest) is concerned, by the 1980s most if not all domestic coal went through Coal Concentration Depots and the era of small station yards was over. However, some trains could be quite short, with varied traction - this link (http://flickriver.com/photos/jezgould/tags/speedlink/) includes some photos of the Didcot to Chessington CCD service. There was a CCD at Chessington South and a smaller facility at Tolworth, iirc. Although these photos show class 37s and 58s, I seem to recall class 73s being used on the Chessington branch.
Title: Re: rail served domestic coal yards 1980s and 90s
Post by: bluedepot on September 11, 2018, 12:20:15 PM
hi kevin - cheers for the pic.  those are the type of storage hoppers i want in blue there.  it seems that this yard had a portable conveyor (in yellow on the left maybe although can't see it?) 

i was thinking of having two under rail discharge pits with two conveyors, one that could swing from one storage hopper to another, and another one for loading a lorry.  the pits will be on the same line i think, just one after the other, and possibly with a shed roof covering them.  no idea how i will make all that... this is just idea so far...

hi bruce - thanks i will look at that link to see what ccds looked like. i remember coal being delivered in sacks and going in a coal bunker... that's it though... no experience of the coal yard at all so all the pictures help...


cheers


tim
Title: Re: rail served domestic coal yards 1980s and 90s
Post by: 70000 on September 11, 2018, 02:58:02 PM
The Ipswich Co-Op coal yard at Derby Road station was rail served until 1989.

By the early 1980's, any 16T mineral wagons were unloaded by a digger with a grab on it, from memory, but they did originally have this hydraulic wagon tipper for unloading, which appears to date from the early 1950's (these appear to be official photos of its "launch").
A conveyor belt took the coal to large storage sheds where it was bagged and then loaded onto the Co-Op fleet of lorries for delivery in the Ipswich area. Electric delivery vehicles were generally used within Ipswich (the last ones lasting as late as 1983) - see https://www.flickr.com/photos/72399068@N08/8331924199/in/album-72157632401404204/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/72399068@N08/8331924199/in/album-72157632401404204/) with diesel vehicles for customers further out.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/68/5878-110918144049.jpeg)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/68/5878-110918144205.jpeg)

Haven't been able to find out who the unloading tipper was constructed by as yet, as I would like to reproduce it on my OO layout.
Title: Re: rail served domestic coal yards 1980s and 90s
Post by: red_death on September 11, 2018, 03:07:38 PM
Definitely worth looking on Flickr for pictures of Tolworth and Chessington South as Bruce suggests - there were a couple more IIRC in London - all look very modellable.  I like the look of some of the last household coal in the SE - HEAs and everything from 33/73/47/56/58 etc!

Must avoid another distraction!

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: rail served domestic coal yards 1980s and 90s
Post by: CaleyDave on September 11, 2018, 08:00:10 PM
Haymarket Coal Yard.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/101242744@N07/23024195919/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/101242744@N07/23024195919/)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/cagiva1994/6097736664/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/cagiva1994/6097736664/)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/cagiva1994/13090363554/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/cagiva1994/13090363554/)
(usual disclaimer, not my Picture)

Rail express Had a series of articles on how to build the hoppers and conveyor belt based on the one at Haymarket a few years ago. I think the MGR wagons being used on Domestic coal was reasonably common in the area at the time as Thornton and Millerhill were both awash with them.
Title: Re: rail served domestic coal yards 1980s and 90s
Post by: bluedepot on September 12, 2018, 06:51:27 PM
thanks for replies and useful links. I'm not going to build anything that will win a prize for accuracy but I will at least attempt to represent the conveyor belt and hoppers! I was thinking of using a peco inspection pit, put a grate over it, add some kind of open shed over the pit, then look for some 3d printed or european conveyor belts and hoppers.
Title: Re: rail served domestic coal yards 1980s and 90s
Post by: Fenrisian on February 12, 2020, 08:23:42 PM
I can remember (just) a coal yard in Luton that was rail served. It featured a conveyor belt leading to a coal mountain. The lorries carried the coal loose.
There was a dispenser that was linked to a set of scales. The coal man would hang a sack from the scales and set the dispenser going. Coal would pour into the sack until the cwt was reached. The coal man then brought the coal to the bunker
Title: Re: rail served domestic coal yards 1980s and 90s
Post by: Steven B on February 13, 2020, 09:06:01 AM
Three Coal Concentration Depots (CCD) in the north west spring to mind: Chadderton, Deepdale and Blackburn.

Chadderton CCD:
https://www.chaddy-goods.co.uk/ (https://www.chaddy-goods.co.uk/)
https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/62261-chadderton-ccd/ (https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/62261-chadderton-ccd/)

Deepdale (Preston) CCD:
http://www.prestonstation.org.uk/TrainsToLongridge_AStL.html (http://www.prestonstation.org.uk/TrainsToLongridge_AStL.html) - class 37 in Coal Sector Livery

Blackburn CCD (now a Northern Trains depot) had a Class 04. Chadderton took mainline locos, and commonly an 08 on trip workings.

This RMWeb thread is also worth a read:
https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/84597-coal-yards-in-the-1970s/ (https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/84597-coal-yards-in-the-1970s/)

Vacuum braked minerals and hoppers would have been seen early in he 1980s but towards the end of the decade had been replaced by HEA. BR went through a period of building/refurbishing coal yards to allow them to make use of the HEA hoppers. Ultimately the trains were doomed - gas was becoming more and more popular.


Steven B
Title: Re: rail served domestic coal yards 1980s and 90s
Post by: Neil of Teesside on February 16, 2020, 06:47:30 AM
It should really be coal bins or cells and not coal staithes as Staithes is a small fishing village in North Yorkshire where CBeebies' Old Jack's Boat is film (for those of us with pre-school children) and Captain Cook worked in a grocery store (for the rest of us).

Have you tried https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/) - he's got plenty of coal yard photos predominantly from the north-east of England and Yorkshire (Hexham and Leyburn for example).
Title: Re: rail served domestic coal yards 1980s and 90s
Post by: bluedepot on February 18, 2020, 02:26:23 PM
thanks for the replies

i am still planning to build a coal yard!


tim
Title: Re: rail served domestic coal yards 1980s and 90s
Post by: twinklekev on February 18, 2020, 06:17:16 PM
There was a Charringtons coal yard next to Romford station that was rail served. I can clearly remember seeing hopper wagons in there. The line used to run down to street level from the old GER line to Liverpool street. I can't remember when it closed though, sorry
Title: Re: rail served domestic coal yards 1980s and 90s
Post by: exmouthcraig on February 18, 2020, 06:25:00 PM
Exmouth Junction UP sidings were cut to 6 to allow the  coal concentration depot to be built in the 70s and was there until early 90s.

It was served by Speedlink services 3 times a week and had various grading belts and a huge stadium esk structure with different grades belted into each section. They even had their own Drewy shunter for the mammoth amount of coal wagons they went through each week.
Title: Re: rail served domestic coal yards 1980s and 90s
Post by: Jerry Howlett on February 18, 2020, 06:44:47 PM
There was one at Broxbourne sill there in the early 80's.  Only ever recall seeing a single hopper there at any one time. 
Title: Re: rail served domestic coal yards 1980s and 90s
Post by: Rowlie on February 18, 2020, 08:51:58 PM
Pretty certain there was one at Gobowen, near Oswestry that was still operational in the 80s.
Title: Re: rail served domestic coal yards 1980s and 90s
Post by: scruff on February 19, 2020, 07:48:09 PM
The Gobowen one still existed in the early 2000's.. complete with hopper pits in the Oswestry platform line and underground conveyor system.

I have seen photo's with HEA wagons in there around the late '80's.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/21602076@N05/4296440862/in/photolist-7xEobA-Wx1abt-NSY159-6arso9-BFGtME-frRVbL-2is4N8g-HZXZGZ-H563Ns-23zKoSp-wrxh7h-4BTqCU-4BTrmG-wzVBnZ-GK8Mtb-bMrGsz-oYaJSZ-2hsgoNE-wREsy3-Hzv7v1-rtzb1S-HRe6jG-nrcvMv-e6i6NM-2hu3t8p-e6i746-b3o2DF-BLqTUo-B2JM4E-s7khHZ-frRVj3-2ejmx2q-WJtEkx-WJtEsr-2hAbnJm-RQyd69-bK1EvT-2gZVfqn-ZcSyi1-pPMN5u-djtNWJ-D1s8Xa-4BTpYw-paotax-e6oJxS-2hwTLTM-2hazy2K-paoxk6-pPL7RP-6oGvpW (https://www.flickr.com/photos/21602076@N05/4296440862/in/photolist-7xEobA-Wx1abt-NSY159-6arso9-BFGtME-frRVbL-2is4N8g-HZXZGZ-H563Ns-23zKoSp-wrxh7h-4BTqCU-4BTrmG-wzVBnZ-GK8Mtb-bMrGsz-oYaJSZ-2hsgoNE-wREsy3-Hzv7v1-rtzb1S-HRe6jG-nrcvMv-e6i6NM-2hu3t8p-e6i746-b3o2DF-BLqTUo-B2JM4E-s7khHZ-frRVj3-2ejmx2q-WJtEkx-WJtEsr-2hAbnJm-RQyd69-bK1EvT-2gZVfqn-ZcSyi1-pPMN5u-djtNWJ-D1s8Xa-4BTpYw-paotax-e6oJxS-2hwTLTM-2hazy2K-paoxk6-pPL7RP-6oGvpW)

And a Gobowen bound train in 2002!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/181919693@N06/48678795741/in/photolist-B2JM4E-D1s8Xa-s7khHZ-4BTpYw-paotax-frRVj3-e6oJxS-2hwTLTM-2hazy2K-paoxk6-2ejmx2q-pPL7RP-WJtEkx-6oGvpW-SxCVxG-pPK3zA-nRKvJU-2haxBuC-p2M1Ak-WJtEaT-wvobkg-Na2B4C-oCAdRy-jw9MyZ-ubVYUq-WJtEsr-cHVWVY-TydFy3-e6hBED-8sopGP-2hAbnJm-2hscQpy-npabBd-b3cv1Z-pdJYHH-RQyd69-pakA3Y-bK1EvT-WUBAkT-2dzLQCE-2gZVfqn-2eR7SW7-2haAhzG-2eR7UpY-sV3zyL-cHVZfA-cHVW1f-e6hUGr-2ic6SGw-jwbYM9/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/181919693@N06/48678795741/in/photolist-B2JM4E-D1s8Xa-s7khHZ-4BTpYw-paotax-frRVj3-e6oJxS-2hwTLTM-2hazy2K-paoxk6-2ejmx2q-pPL7RP-WJtEkx-6oGvpW-SxCVxG-pPK3zA-nRKvJU-2haxBuC-p2M1Ak-WJtEaT-wvobkg-Na2B4C-oCAdRy-jw9MyZ-ubVYUq-WJtEsr-cHVWVY-TydFy3-e6hBED-8sopGP-2hAbnJm-2hscQpy-npabBd-b3cv1Z-pdJYHH-RQyd69-pakA3Y-bK1EvT-WUBAkT-2dzLQCE-2gZVfqn-2eR7SW7-2haAhzG-2eR7UpY-sV3zyL-cHVZfA-cHVW1f-e6hUGr-2ic6SGw-jwbYM9/)

and unloading Gobowen.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/181919693@N06/48678417168/in/photolist-B2JM4E-D1s8Xa-s7khHZ-4BTpYw-paotax-frRVj3-e6oJxS-2hwTLTM-2hazy2K-paoxk6-2ejmx2q-pPL7RP-WJtEkx-6oGvpW-SxCVxG-pPK3zA-nRKvJU-2haxBuC-p2M1Ak-WJtEaT-wvobkg-Na2B4C-oCAdRy-jw9MyZ-ubVYUq-WJtEsr-cHVWVY-TydFy3-e6hBED-8sopGP-2hAbnJm-2hscQpy-npabBd-b3cv1Z-pdJYHH-RQyd69-pakA3Y-bK1EvT-WUBAkT-2dzLQCE-2gZVfqn-2eR7SW7-2haAhzG-2eR7UpY-sV3zyL-cHVZfA-cHVW1f-e6hUGr-2ic6SGw-jwbYM9/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/181919693@N06/48678417168/in/photolist-B2JM4E-D1s8Xa-s7khHZ-4BTpYw-paotax-frRVj3-e6oJxS-2hwTLTM-2hazy2K-paoxk6-2ejmx2q-pPL7RP-WJtEkx-6oGvpW-SxCVxG-pPK3zA-nRKvJU-2haxBuC-p2M1Ak-WJtEaT-wvobkg-Na2B4C-oCAdRy-jw9MyZ-ubVYUq-WJtEsr-cHVWVY-TydFy3-e6hBED-8sopGP-2hAbnJm-2hscQpy-npabBd-b3cv1Z-pdJYHH-RQyd69-pakA3Y-bK1EvT-WUBAkT-2dzLQCE-2gZVfqn-2eR7SW7-2haAhzG-2eR7UpY-sV3zyL-cHVZfA-cHVW1f-e6hUGr-2ic6SGw-jwbYM9/)

Cheers
Mark
Title: Re: rail served domestic coal yards 1980s and 90s
Post by: Rowlie on February 19, 2020, 09:05:45 PM
Hi Mark, thanks for putting up the photos, had no idea it lasted so long.
Title: Re: rail served domestic coal yards 1980s and 90s
Post by: crewearpley40 on February 19, 2020, 09:17:34 PM
Believe the site is now a housing site. Also believe that alnmouth had coal sidings on The ECML up til 87 / 88 electrification on the south eastside
Title: Re: rail served domestic coal yards 1980s and 90s
Post by: scruff on February 21, 2020, 06:28:49 PM
The site is now a housing estate, I lived virtually next door to the station and wish I'd have taken photo's when I had the chance. The conveyor system came up from underground and had an arm that rotated and fed a semicircular system of hoppers.
I was also surprised at the date, I always thought domestic coal ended in the late '80's or early '90's.

Cheers
Mark
Title: Re: rail served domestic coal yards 1980s and 90s
Post by: tcinbg on March 14, 2020, 09:33:28 PM
Here is a few photographs of the Norwich distribution centre. https://www.google.com/search?q=norwich+coal+yard+images (https://www.google.com/search?q=norwich+coal+yard+images)
Title: Re: rail served domestic coal yards 1980s and 90s
Post by: bluedepot on March 14, 2020, 09:51:56 PM
thanks nice one

i like the shunter they had

i have assembled a few things, a conveyor belt, some storage hoppers, a metal unloading shed, 4 wheel loader, staithes, lots of heas, a few 21t hoppers, and a class 04 (which unfortunately doesnt work currently...)


tim

Title: Re: rail served domestic coal yards 1980s and 90s
Post by: crewearpley40 on March 14, 2020, 09:55:15 PM
Maybe an 08 shunter would do. Have you any pics / track plan please
Title: Re: rail served domestic coal yards 1980s and 90s
Post by: mk1gtstu on March 14, 2020, 10:12:47 PM
There was a goods yard at Coity in Bridgend South Wales up until the early 80's, a photo I found of it here
https://www.flickr.com/photos/actonwellsjunction/7898848782/in/photolist-d2ZExY-NQYGGG-9cevRt-a7C6sp-bsD5pv-bsCKjc-2cr3wuo-dGMmNi-e3RVLD-9RVsPu-D4K1iD-8pMDeH-9RVqYQ-8mZZEo-9RStQR-j6sZCW-9RTLt3-qxpfzM-9RSqDR-5XWuV3-8nHCQY-9eVfQS (https://www.flickr.com/photos/actonwellsjunction/7898848782/in/photolist-d2ZExY-NQYGGG-9cevRt-a7C6sp-bsD5pv-bsCKjc-2cr3wuo-dGMmNi-e3RVLD-9RVsPu-D4K1iD-8pMDeH-9RVqYQ-8mZZEo-9RStQR-j6sZCW-9RTLt3-qxpfzM-9RSqDR-5XWuV3-8nHCQY-9eVfQS)

Cheers, Stu