I took my Mum to B & Q today and was informed next Weds is the last Weds that 10% off everything for the over 60s will be allowed. After that, it's only 10% off gardening stuff. I saw on the news late last week that their profits were up by 5%. Personally I think they'll regret this as their car park is always rammed on Wednesdays so their trade is good and their café does good business too.
TBH I never see folks buying much gardening stuff in there as proper garden centres with decent cafés seem to be much preferred.
We shall see :hmmm:
We lost our Our B&Q, it closed and the site became a Bunnings (and the old Homebase site became a bargain store), and is now a Homebase. Ho-hum. It's still full of expensive barbies that no-none wanted. Bunnings really got their target demographic wrong where we are.
Still wish we could have a B&Q back.
There is a growing school of thought that all such age-based discrimination should be ended...
If you can have "10% off for over 60s on Wednesdays", why isn't there "10% off for under 40s on Thursdays" etc??
B&Q are one of the few left that have an age based scheme - most others who previously offered them have shifted to 'membership' schemes open to all regardless of ages.
Probably realised I will be 60 in November and was looking forward to a discount.
Still be another 6 years to wait for the bus pass to get there.
"£$%^&* typical.
Alan
Only 2 weeks till I am 60 so now only got the free prescriptions to look forward to now :(
Paul
Obviously there were just too many pensioners building model railway layouts :D
I have an Australian seniors card which actually isn't too bad. It gets me cheap bus fares and even got me a discount into Minatur Wunderland, Hamburg!
However to get cheap medicine, etc I have to apply for a pension. Having held a reasonably paid job, it won't amount to much, but still worth doing for the medical.
However, as I commented to NewportNobby recently, the application form is 27 pages long! So I am currently living on my super.
Bugger ......
Was 60 nine days ago and started a shopping list >:(
Shame, my wife gets all her DIY tools from B&Q ;) :D
:laughabovepost: :laughabovepost:
Here in Ireland we have a DIY chain that gives 10% discount on anything, that is not on special offer, to over 60s on a Thursday - hope they are not reading this! Having said that, the local hardware shop does sell stuff at prices which can be cheaper even taking the discount into account.
Having just turned 66, all these discounts wouldn't be much use.... I'm scared of power tools these days ;)
Typical, I've only had the old gits card for 9 months, and I use BQ a lot (£300 in the last couple of weeks)... I suspect it will be standing room only next Wednesday.
Before that I was on their normal card for which they do send you an email voucher each time you spend. Often it is 10% but:
A, there is the faff of printing it and bringing it with you to be scanned,
B, it's say £5 off 50 pound spend, so every penny you spend over the £50 is a reduction in discount.
This change will maybe be a retrograde step for B&Q, but much of what they sell can be found at the sister company, Screwfix, which primarily targets the Trade buyer. Trouble is some, but by no means all, items are sold at Screwfix in packs rather than as individual items, or in larger sizes, say 5 litres rather than 500 mls.
All in all I have found Screwfix prices are frequently less (but not always) than those at B&Q for identical items even after the 10% Wednesday discount had been applied.
Biggest annoyance will be with the stuff Screwfix doesn't sell, particularly wood and main brand paints like Dulux, Crown and Valspar.
Screwfix are cheaper for the small Items, but I found for the larger items like, say decking they are more expensive than BQ.
Meanwhile at Screwfix they've dropped their own brand Stainless screws in favour of expensive one from Spax.
So I tried toolstation, a company started by the same people that created Screwfix,. That was two years after they sold ScrewFix to Kingfisher.
They, Toolstation, have stores in many towns and are as good if not better than Screwfix.
Tuesday night I ordered more stainless screws from Toolstation and a big bundle of wet and dry sandpaper at about 20:00, they were delivered Wednesday by 15:00!!!
Quote from: PLD on August 22, 2018, 10:14:55 PM
There is a growing school of thought that all such age-based discrimination should be ended...
Thank you for this.
It made sense having discounts for OAPs back when we were talking about the 'greatest generation' who had lived and fought through two world wars. They certainly deserved the recognition and thanks of a grateful nation.
But to have seen active service in 1945 someone would have to have been about 91 years of age by my reckoning, and it seems pretty unlikely such folk are doing much shopping at B&Q!
Pensioner discounts now are simply a reward for having reached a certain age, despite all the evidence indicating younger people are far more financially stretched than pensioners. So absolutely as @PLD (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=647) says, it's discriminatory without any logical or moral justification that I can see. I'm much keener on those schemes that benefit particular groups within society. People who work for the NHS for example can get discounts in many places.
Cheers, NeMo
Quote from: NeMo on August 23, 2018, 08:58:45 AM
Pensioner discounts now are simply a reward for having reached a certain age
And there was me thinking it was more a reward for the majority of us 60+ folks having worked most of our lives. Seems like there's not to be any benefit in becoming old and unwanted as it's discriminatory ::) :P
When I was young I was always broke. When I was separated for 14 years there were times I despaired and didn't know how I was going to survive.
My point here is that I dug a hole but climbed out of it.
I feel I've earned my senior benefits.
Quote from: Newportnobby on August 23, 2018, 09:55:50 AM
And there was me thinking it was more a reward for the majority of us 60+ folks having worked most of our lives. Seems like there's not to be any benefit in becoming old and unwanted as it's discriminatory ::) :P
The benefit of working all of your adult life is the house you own, the money you've saved, and the life experiences you were able to afford -- from kids to holidays -- thanks to your income.
A lot of young people have little to no likelihood of being able to afford a home -- at least not in the parts of England where the jobs are -- much less being able to save a reasonable amount for their pension. In many ways people in their 60s and 70s have enjoyed a much better life than someone in their teens or 20s can expect, for all sorts of reasons.
Of course everyone has an expectation to be loved and wanted, but those are earned, not handed over simply because you exist, in my opinion anyway! So don't worry, we love you, @Newportnobby (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264), and we want you here on the NGF!
Cheers, NeMo
One of the reasons for this discount was to attract people who could shop midweek to do so. It there for left the weekends free for those in work who were presumed to have a higher disposable income. May be this is no longer the case or weekend sales may have dropped
When I said 'unwanted' I meant that, as we now have a larger percentage of aged population, then inevitably strain is going to be put on state pensions, the NHS, care/nursing homes and all the other services I think pensioners deserve and many folks don't think they deserve them. Maybe we should force folks off this mortal coil at a certain age and then much more money would be available for the younger generation? I don't want to get into politics for obvious reasons but I think all generations currently are hard done by. The difference is I worked :censored: hard for 43 years to get what I've got and, believe me, it's not as if I'm living in luxury. Mind you, I'm not living in a rolled up newspaper in a septic tank either :no:
Sorry, but I'm opting out now as I can feel my blood pressure tapping the safety valve
Quote from: Newportnobby on August 23, 2018, 11:18:03 AM
When I said 'unwanted' I meant that, as we now have a larger percentage of aged population, then inevitably strain is going to be put on state pensions, the NHS, care/nursing homes and all the other services I think pensioners deserve and many folks don't think they deserve them.
Totally agree. I'm 100% behind state pensions, free at the point of access healthcare, and meaningful social care for people who, for whatever reason, can't afford it themselves.
Quote from: Newportnobby on August 23, 2018, 11:18:03 AM
Maybe we should force folks off this mortal coil at a certain age and then much more money would be available for the younger generation?
No need. Time and death duties take care of this, death duties being absolutely a tool for redistributing the wealth accumulated within one family back into the general population (as opposed to mere relatives who didn't actually earn that wealth themselves).
Quote from: Newportnobby on August 23, 2018, 11:18:03 AM
I don't want to get into politics for obvious reasons but I think all generations currently are hard done by.
Agreed, and there are various reasons for this, not just politics. Lack of cheap homes, the fact the UK economy is basically London and the Southeast, and demographics (something like 3 people in work for every 1 retiree) has caused all sorts of problems. Chuck politics into the mix and the priorities change, but none of the parties have really tackled the big issues at the centre of the storm.
Quote from: Newportnobby on August 23, 2018, 11:18:03 AM
The difference is I worked :censored: hard for 43 years to get what I've got and, believe me, it's not as if I'm living in luxury. Mind you, I'm not living in a rolled up newspaper in a septic tank either
I'm sure you did work hard, but ultimately what you have is what you earned. The assumption that pensioners deserve a discount at B&Q simply by having had a job for 40 years, versus, say, single mums or disabled people, is the thing I take issue with.
By all means have a discount card for the British Legion or pensioners working in charity shops. Or pensioners recognised as primary carers for their grandchildren, say. But simply for being a certain age is, to me, less defensible than it was 40 years ago because we're not talking about the generation who lived and fought in the world wars. Make sense, @Newportnobby (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264)?
Cheers, NeMo
I think that basically, get to the age I am, 66 on Tuesday gone, and you see things differently.
I have educated kids here in NSW since 1974 and turned out engineers, doctors, lawyers and bus drivers.
I feel that I've earned anything the Australian government is prepared to give me.
QuotePeople who work for the NHS for example can get discounts in many places.
best discount is to have a quiet word with the works department storeman :whistle:
Quote from: NeMo on August 23, 2018, 12:08:16 PM
Make sense?
Not that I'm dismissing your well put points by quoting 2 words but "Sorry, no it doesn't make sense".
However you look at it everything is age related and the B & Q discount card is just a very tiny example.
State Pension - age related
Winter fuel allowance - age related
Bus pass - age related
Free TV licence - age related
Free prescriptions - age related (England)
Now we'll be here until Doomsday discussing whether old sods likes me should get any rather than a single mum/disabled person but basically the 'benefits' I've listed above are in place IMHO to help those who had no or little private pension (much of the time due to being ripped off by greedy companies). Equally the thought of Mick Jagger (just taking an example) getting any of the above is pretty laughable but the system causes it. Try and change the system to avoid paying them to folks in general over 60-65 and that's when you'll see us on the barricades. You have been warned!
Quote from: Newportnobby on August 23, 2018, 12:30:46 PM
Free prescriptions - age related (England)
Hi
Not necessarily it can also be for medical reasons.
Cheers
Paul
Quote from: Bealman on August 23, 2018, 12:22:51 PM
I feel that I've earned anything the Australian government is prepared to give me.
Don't disagree with state pensions or any of that. Absolutely fine, and yes, if we have a welfare state, it has to be cradle-to-grave if it's going to be fair.
Quote from: Newportnobby on August 23, 2018, 12:30:46 PM
Try and change the system to avoid paying them to folks in general over 60-65 and that's when you'll see us on the barricades. You have been warned!
Given the size (and enthusiasm) of the 'grey vote' I don't see any government making substantial changes. But as a teacher, someone who works with teenagers, I'm acutely aware of the fact their adult life is going to be very much harder than those of retirees in many key respects, not least of all, the ability to own their own home and save enough for a meaningful private pension. Of course there are exceptions, and many pensioners do struggle. Believe me, I'm a card-carrying member of the bleeding heart liberal brigade!
But my point is that young adults don't have much of a voice in society or politics -- and consequently they're having a very tough working life passed onto them. I'm not saying that the baby boomer generation is actively malicious -- many of them are grandparents after all! -- but a lot of retirees assume young adults will have a life just as good as theirs if they work hard and keep their nose clean. It simply isn't as easy as that for all sorts of reasons, from automation to demographic shifts.
To me, the B&Q discount is just one of the little ways society assumes pensioners need a bit of extra help -- and maybe they do -- but often forgets that people in their 20s and 30s need help too, perhaps even more urgently.
Cheers, NeMo
My daughters have worked hard and kept their nose clean.
Oldest is a lawyer in Sydney, next the director of radiation physics in Darwin hospital, youngest teaching English in Japan.
I can't really see your point.
Quote from: Newportnobby on August 23, 2018, 12:30:46 PM
but the system causes it.
One of my workmates, who is in his 30's, was bemoaning the fact that I am retiring in a few weeks and the fact that I could afford to because I am in receipt of three pensions. As I pointed out, apart from a period of about three months, I have been employed for all of my 50+ working years. I paid enough into 'the system' in the UK to qualify for a retirement pension a couple of years ago and, although I did not know how 'the system' worked when I moved to Ireland, I paid enough into 'the system' here to qualify for a retirement pension last year. I also have my private pension which I paid into for a lot of years. So, if 'the system' allows me to have these benefits, I am having them! And if anyone is prepared to give me discounts because I am a pensioner, I will make use of those as well! I appreciate it can be hard for younger people these days to afford things in life, but I was younger once and struggled. :beers:
Quote from: NeMo on August 23, 2018, 12:49:27 PM
To me, the B&Q discount is just one of the little ways society assumes pensioners need a bit of extra help -- and maybe they do -- but often forgets that people in their 20s and 30s need help too, perhaps even more urgently.
Sadly, I seriously doubt that that had anything to do with why B&Q offered the discount in the first place, but it was undoubtedly a good marketing hook.
I suspect they have dropped it for a number of reasons:
- In most towns, they were competing with Homebase. But since Bunnings wrecked Homebase, they are currently competing with themselves (Screwfix)
- Seniors are probably a larger part of their demographic now, as youngsters are less willing to do DIY than our generation was - lack of time, being freaked by the 'elf & safety implications, etc. You don't want to give a special discount to a large part of your target demographic - model rail shows very rarely discount senior admission, for example.
- It was an exceedingly leaky system. Someone posted earlier that his wife bought a lot of tools under the scheme, implying she was eligible when he wasn't. As times get harder and harder for youngsters, I'm sure a lot of grandparents were somehow buying goods that were remarkably well suited to a struggling millennial couple establishing themselves in a starter home, not the odd bit of top-up/maintenance DIY that you might expect settled OAPs to be doing.;)
Shame though!
Quote from: Bealman on August 23, 2018, 12:55:51 PM
I can't really see your point.
Can't speak for your personal experiences, but of course, lots of young adults have done very well. Nor do I know the situation in Australia, which may well be the land of opportunity! But in the UK, the following issues are ones pensioners won't have had to deal with to the same degree, if at all:
(1) About 3 workers to every retiree nowadays, compared to about 10 workers to every retiree in the late 40s when the welfare state was set up. That means there's far fewer people paying in for every one person drawing money out. To maintain the same level of outgoing money, the government obviously has to make each person paying in pay more.
(2) People are living far longer than they were in the late 1940s, and again, this means a heavier burden on state finances. Whereas people might draw 5 years state pension, social welfare costs, and NHS healthcare costs back in the 40s, that's more like 30 years now. So yet again, working people will be expected to pay in more to ensure those retired people around them are looked after and given pensions.
(3) Jobs for life essentially don't exist. Prior to the 1980s it was assumed you'd learn and skill or trade, start working for a given company, and stick with them until you retired -- whether you were on the factory floor, in an office, or providing some other service. Jobs simply don't work that way, with internal promotions being the exception rather than the rule.
(4) Automation and export of labour have eliminated most of the demand for unskilled and semi-skilled labour. Getting well paying, secure jobs without a robust education is increasingly difficult, and even with a good education, just how many web designers and data analysts do we need? The idea of full employment is simply ridiculous now.
(5) The exceptionally expensive housing market in the Southeast of England mean young people on average don't get anywhere near to owning a home well into their 30s, and many likely never will. It's all very well saying that homes are cheap in Hull or wherever, and those places might well be lovely, but they have few well-paying jobs.
(6) The 'gig economy' has trapped many young people in jobs that, on paper, might pay well by the hour, but aren't reliable enough to do anything like, say, get a mortgage. A lot of young people have short-term contracts, or work for companies that are, at best, ephemeral or offering little to no promotion even if you work hard.
People in their 70s now benefitted from a post-war booming economy, strong unions, cheap houses, and generous ratios of workers to pensioners that mean their overall taxation was relatively low. People in the 20s have a stagnant economy, a fragmented labour market, insanely high housing costs, and huge demands on their income simply to maintain the welfare state.
In other words, it's by no means a level playing field.
Cheers, NeMo
Quote from: Nick on August 23, 2018, 01:15:57 PM
Someone posted earlier that his wife bought a lot of tools under the scheme, implying she was eligible when he wasn't.
Sorry, that was my poor attempt at humour, my tools in the main come from Screwfix now, ever since they closed the Penzance B&Q, my wife doesn't really buy tools for DIY :D
Your point is valid though
Quotenot the odd bit of top-up/maintenance DIY that you might expect settled OAPs to be doing
But thats always been the case,one example is a mate with his own property maintenance company,at one point the oap discount made b+q the cheapest place for materials,even beating b+q's " trade " rate,his parents were weekly regulars in the store,the staff knew the score but didnt care as it made there sales figures look good.
Quote from: themadhippy on August 23, 2018, 01:35:43 PM
But thats always been the case,one example is a mate with his own property maintenance company,at one point the oap discount made b+q the cheapest place for materials,even beating b+q's " trade " rate,his parents were weekly regulars in the store,the staff knew the score but didnt care as it made there sales figures look good.
Oh, absolutely. But perhaps it's become more prevalent to the point that it's unacceptable, especially if they were cannibalising Screwfix's trade. Or perhaps margins are squeezed by competetition from online shopping or the state of the economy in general.
Something has changed that means that a deal that once was profitable for B&Q to offer isn't profitable anymore. That's why they were doing it after all - they weren't indulging in social engineering or welfare, they believed it boosted their profits.
I don't use B&Q much these days, and Wednesdays were never a convenient day for me to visit a branch anyway. The main reason is because of pricing, as most things, if I'm prepared to plan ahead or wait a day or two for a delivery, can be bought online cheaper anyway. I use Toolstation, mentioned earlier, and quite a few other online suppliers - whichever is cheapest and offers good service really.
For odd bits and bobs, drills, screws, etc I usually use my local ironmonger. Higher prices, its true, but they are just a mile or two away, not an hour return journey to B&Q.
Quality of wood is not so good either at B&Q compared to some of the other merchants. 'Banana wood' is frequently available but I'm not building wonky and warped things. For straight, true wood I prefer a good old fashioned timber yard, though even these are hard to find these days. And B&Q seemed to have stopped stocking timber in sizes longer than 2.4 metres.
But I will use B&Q for paint. Their Valspar range is superb. I've used many of the range, from indoor emulsions, gloss or semi gloss, metal paints, and outdoor paints. Brilliant stuff every time and better by far IMHO than the likes of Dulux and Crown. The 10% reduction will be missed for these.
Like every other retailer with a storefront properties, B&Q are struggling in the current market against the internet, as well as other economic factors (that others have mentioned here). They have a website, but it's a pain to use in my opinion and I've given up using it.
Sadly the suppliers for DIY are becoming fewer and less expansive in their ranges, and though I know why they no longer exist in many towns, I look back at the days when I could ferret around in an old hardware store, like the one I used to use in Buckingham, and find just about anything I wanted, not packed in multipack plastic bags, from a few nails, a single screw or bolt, the wooden 'bucket' from an old village water pump, or the handle to an old mangle, as well as all the usual paraphernalia for DIY like paints, straight wood, and darned good practical advice.
But then we live in a more modern, better world, don't we? :hmmm: ::)
Of course, the younger folk could always get their parents to buy stuff with a discount for them but that option is gone after next week. Mind you, if my nephew is anything to go by he'd just get me to buy it for him from my pocket ::)
Quote from: Newportnobby on August 23, 2018, 09:41:36 PM
Of course, the younger folk could always get their parents to buy stuff
Yep, like a house for them !
Thanks all for a most interesting read, I've not been around for a while due to (hmm, special person being in/out of hospital since April so domestic has been a bit upset, now back into community care so we keep fingers xxed and try to pick up where our hobbies left off ! )
So:- age and expectation : we never expected our age to give us any state benefit, we paid our NI as required (National Insurance <- the significant word being 'insurance', against being in need of medical and unemployment assistance *). We paid our pension contributions** as required by the state and supplementary offers by our employers.
We are entitled to bus passes, we never asked for them, we dont have them, we dont need them, the nearest bus is too far to walk to! We have a car, and we have a spare car in case the prime dont ackle anytime ! (and anyway last time I used a bus was about , , , well never mind about 35y ago and last time I used a train it was steam hauled [not preserved !!] )
We didnt inherit anything an we lived within our means, which meant no fancy furniture, no fitted kitchen 'make-overs'
* and ** ours is not to reason why our betters in government and company finance did not manage those systems better (and sometimes jumped overboard from cruise ships to avoid their responsibilities ) ours is do and post :)
However, , , when perusing the small print of my TV license I find that a certain person being over 75 can have a free one ! Me being not yet quite 75 I phoned a most helpful person who explained the why and wherefore in respect of my significant other , , ,
upshot is that we now have a free TV license and a cheque £98 rebate on that which the state owes us for the intervening interregnum ! Ha ! didnt ask for it, dont need it, but not arguing !!
Glad to hear things have improved for you both, Malcolm.
I guess the only fair way to assess a need for a benefit is by means testing but that's a huge can of worms as how do you assess someone's assets without either being lied to or invasion of privacy in order to get to the truth. Who decided that if you have more than £23,000 (?) worth of assets you have to pay for your own care/nursing home costs? Invariably that means having to sell your property to pay for said care so could never return to your house should things improve.
At least you wouldn't need a discount DIY card ::) (Feeble attempt to stay on topic)
Quote from: Bealman on August 23, 2018, 12:55:51 PM
My daughters have worked hard and kept their nose clean.
Oldest is a lawyer in Sydney, next the director of radiation physics in Darwin hospital, youngest teaching English in Japan.
I can't really see your point.
I can't see yours, if you're making one? Your daughters have done well for sure, but the money they're earning would have gone further 30 years ago. They'd have been able to buy comparatively bigger houses, they'd have had final salary pensions to look forward to etc. No one's saying that the youth of today are all unemployed and on the breadline, but house prices in London are now 12 times the average salary. In 1985 they were 3.5 times the average salary.
It is a fact that home ownership is dwindling in the under-40s as people are priced out, and yet the over 60s continue to get a hefty discount on houses too! I realise you're not in the UK (and neither are your daughters), but NeMo's point was based on the UK. If the same doesn't hold stock in Australia, and I'd be surprised given I believe Sydney to be very expensive for property, then why comment?
I didn't even know B&Q did a discount scheme, we've not got one locally so I've not set foot in one for years. That and I'm not eligible for another 29 years!
Post removed.
I think we need an ISP to give discount to retired personages ?
and an ISP to give a quantity discount, well we do have to mark time, if not have time on our hands ?
Quote from: Newportnobby on August 24, 2018, 09:40:09 AM
Glad to hear things have improved for you both, Malcolm.
I guess the only fair way to assess a need for a benefit is by means testing but that's a huge can of worms
Invariably that means having to sell your property to pay for said care so could never return to your house
Thanks, fingers are xxed
yep worms ! lets not go there - except to say we have made reasonable housing provision for offspring and what is left over at 'end of day' (as they say) is due the state which gave us the opportunity.
Oh! I thought that the charge was against the estate, not current ? Perhaps this differs if there is another joint owner or tenant in common ? (deffo straying offtopic now !)
Quote from: Bealman on August 24, 2018, 11:05:03 AM
Post removed.
My in-laws are expats, around early 1960s. They get a fixed (non-indexed) pension from the UK as they contributed for couple of decades to the pension scheme (super scheme?) before leaving for Oz.
Do the newer poms get the same deal? I assume you would be in similar circumstances so have an interest in this thread.
I've checked it out, but I only worked for one year full time before I arrived on these shores.
So basically I get nothing.
Quote from: Lindi on August 28, 2018, 12:28:32 AM
While a spouse is still alive the property is not included in the 'means testing' for care home funding.
Drat. Sounds like I might have to get wed (again) :doh:
Don't do it Mick that would really cost you! Oooops! just been clipped by her who must be obeyed.
Quote from: Newportnobby on August 23, 2018, 09:41:36 PM
Of course, the younger folk could always get their parents to buy stuff with a discount for them but that option is gone after next week. Mind you, if my nephew is anything to go by he'd just get me to buy it for him from my pocket ::)
Indeed Nobby, yesterday I was lucky enough to have my father in law in a B&Q on the last Wednesday the offer was valid on everything and he just so happened to pick up a new power tool. As if by magic the exact amount of money needed appeared in his account shortly after he left it in my car boot.
Strange that ;)
Skyline2uk
Quote from: Newportnobby on August 28, 2018, 10:11:51 AM
Drat. Sounds like I might have to get wed (again) :doh:
Eeek!
mind-u, it could help the housing crisis / house price problem, > two people needing two houses become one family needing just one house ?!
Now if only we could get grandparents living with , , , and bring back SuperMac and a house building program.
Not sure you would need to get wed, you could try a civil partnership ??
Quote from: MalcolmAL on August 30, 2018, 07:12:47 PM
you could try a civil partnership ??
The 2 marriages I've had have been very uncivil, Malcolm :no:
I am sad to hear that, oh dear, what can I say ? (only one in, soon fingers xxed, 50y here)
My use of modern-civil in respect of partnerships and the law obviously does not encompass (our?oldie) onetime usage of the word.
Just like to be gay may or may not be joyful ? , , , oooops,,, pass ,
But I did have a serious intent to explore the current extent of protections, the oldie 'spouse' may not cover all modern liens on property. I did ref briefly earlier to tenants in common, which does give protection to a part of the property for the other interested parties, AND they can be anyone, neither spouse, related, nor even acquainted except via lawyer(s)
Quote from: NeMo on August 23, 2018, 01:22:12 PM
People in their 70s now benefitted from a post-war booming economy, strong unions, cheap houses, and generous ratios of workers to pensioners that mean their overall taxation was relatively low.
That would be just after the (dont mention it) war when we were broke ? but we could still afford a health service. Then superMac spent so much on house building that most everyone could get on the ladder. Then later we were so kernacckered (thanks to the power of the unions) that DennisH had to go cap-in-hand to the IMF for a loan (weak man of EU and look where that ended us ,,, in the EU !)
I could go on ! ! :) but maybe best not, but this idea that the oldies are creaming it and the teens have nowt to look forward to is just not the whole story.
cheers !
I understand about 1/3 of that! You seem to agree with NeMo though?
I spent £140 on Wednesday, they've sent a voucher, £2 off the next £10 spend. It would cost me that in petrol to go use it..
Actually I've spent more than that each Wednesday for the last 3 weeks, so unless there is something urgent I won't be going back before the voucher runs out.
Quote from: ntpntpntp on August 22, 2018, 09:55:17 PM
We lost our Our B&Q, it closed and the site became a Bunnings (and the old Homebase site became a bargain store), and is now a Homebase. Ho-hum. It's still full of expensive barbies that no-none wanted. Bunnings really got their target demographic wrong where we are.
Still wish we could have a B&Q back.
Homebase perhaps at risk again as they try and negotiate lower rents for their non-profitable sheds.
Dave G
Quote from: njee20 on August 31, 2018, 07:22:09 AM
You seem to agree with NeMo though?
(sorry, I was trying to be brief as we are well OT !!)
Yes and no ! There was a post war boom but it took a while to kick in. (rationing continued for some time after the war ended) Then it did not last for long and we squandered it in the Wilson-Unions era when our economy was a basket case. Then the inflation of the Wilson-Heath years wiped out savings. So it was not all quite as rosy as NeMo's points make out :)
However one good effect of that inflation was that the real value of our humungously large 90% mortgage (about £7000 !) became relatively trivial and was paid off in a few years not the 25 previously envisaged.
The matter of 'only' 3 workers instead of 10 to support an increasing pensioner burden (much talked about in the media) is not the big problem. (A) those 3 workers generate much more wealth than the 10 of ye oldie times.
(B) a small problem is that only the 3 workers are taxed whereas the 7 robots that took the other jobs are not taxed. OK the robot owners, the large corporations are taxed but it could be argued that corporation tax is not high enough. Big problem is that that tax cannot be higher else even more robots will migrate to the east !!
Cheers.
But I don't think the 3 workers earning today do earn that much more than back in the day. Obviously they do numerically, but that's moot when houses don't cost £7000 anymore!
It's well publicised that the millennials are going to be worse off than their parents, which is the first time that's happened. I still think property prices are the prime driver for that - which includes private rent as a direct correlation, and there's little way to escape that.
The idea of people now just buying up houses in their early 20s is laughable - even with huge loans from the government in Help to Buy people still can't manage it in many parts. We can obviously talk about right to buy reducing housinjg stock, but that's a tangent even on a tangent! ;)
I visited my local B&Q and was surprised to find a lot of items such as wood screws etc not only out of stock but also with 'clearance' stickers on them.
It seems likely that they are looking carefully at what makes them money and what doesn't. The rights and wrongs of the over 60s discount are for others to debate but you don't have to be a detective to see how openly abused the system is.
Don't forget that the 'Pensioners' are still paying tax on their pensions as well. So it is not just the 3 workers who are contributing.
Quote from: MalcolmAL on August 30, 2018, 11:39:34 PM
That would be just after the (dont mention it) war when we were broke ? but we could still afford a health service. Then superMac spent so much on house building that most everyone could get on the ladder. Then later we were so kernacckered (thanks to the power of the unions) that DennisH had to go cap-in-hand to the IMF for a loan (weak man of EU and look where that ended us ,,, in the EU !)
Quick history lesson for those who aren't keeping up.
Britain joined the EEC (as the EU was then) on January 1st 1973. That was under a Conservative administration, Ted Heath, probably the last 'post-war consensus' Tory prime minister. He failed to win the next general election convincingly in February 1974, and completely lost the follow-up one in October in that year, resulting in a Labour administration under Harold Wilson with a majority of just 3 MPs.
Denis Healey was the chancellor of the exchequer in March 1975 when he went to the IMF for a loan. This was over two years after Britain joined the EEC, so @MalcolmAL (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3699)'s suggestion that the IMF caused the UK to join the EU is back to front in terms of timing.
Healey's actions were entirely defensible, even if undesirable. History has judged him favourably, and as a chancellor, he's considered to be one of the more competent ones we've had, especially given the very difficult times when he was working. Let's not forget that he wasn't some Eton-educated gentleman, but an ordinary man who worked his way from grammar school to an Oxford scholarship, then fought in the Army during WW2 (including the notorious Battle of Anzio). Nor was he some left-wing agitator -- Healey was always on the moderate wing of the Labour Party, something many militant activists in the party have never forgiven him for.
In any case, history (as opposed to politics, dear moderators) now considers the IMF loans to have been helpful. By 1976-1977 the economy was much better, balance of trade was in a surplus, and North Sea oil revenues were pouring in. While the subsequent Thatcher administration gets a lot of credit for reshaping the British economy during the 1980s, historians now judge the work to have started under Callaghan and Healey, both of whom were written out of the story by right-wing politicians and journalists at the time.
Yes, the 1970s were tough, for all sorts of reasons, not just the unions. The 'energy crisis' caused by Mid East events was a huge factor, as was lack of investment in UK infrastructure (not just railways, but industry as well) compared with the Continent. The Thatcher administration was keen on painting themselves as the great reformers who fixed all of that, but to a large degree they benefitted from good luck (North Sea oil revenues plus less reliance on the Mid East) so it's a shame that the important work the previous government did has been forgotten.
In any case, for those interested in the history it's all been gone over in many popular books. There's an excellent little book called 'Thatcher's Britain: The Politics and Social Upheaval of the 1980s' that provides a surprising balanced primer by someone who describes himself as a critic of the Thatcher myth, while any of the Dominic Sandbrook tomes on the era, such as 'Seasons in the Sun: The Battle for Britain, 1974-1979' would provide readers with much more detail.
Cheers, NeMo
PS. With regard to 'still being able to afford a health service', always remember that in the 1940s and 50s people didn't live as long after retirement; there were many more diseases considered terminal; there were far fewer treatments for long-term health problems; and people with disabilities received far less physical and medical support. In other words, fewer people were drawing money out of the NHS, and when they did, it was for shorter periods of time and for a smaller number of things.
Healthcare spending will continue to go upwards for the foreseeable future, and the question is really how do we pay for it all. Nobody in either party really has a clue, because the reality is that whatever we do, it'll be very much more expensive than the electorate is willing to accept.
Quote from: NeMo on August 31, 2018, 10:35:36 AM
Quote from: MalcolmAL on August 30, 2018, 11:39:34 PM
That would be just after the (dont mention it) war when we were broke ? but we could still afford a health service. Then superMac spent so much on house building that most everyone could get on the ladder. Then later we were so kernacckered (thanks to the power of the unions) that DennisH had to go cap-in-hand to the IMF for a loan (weak man of EU and look where that ended us ,,, in the EU !)
so @MalcolmAL (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3699)'s suggestion that the IMF caused the UK to join the EU is back to front in terms of timing.
Ah ! the written word is such a poor thing ! I am so sorry, I did not mean to imply that, but re-reading my convoluted sentence I see now how you got that mistaken idea ! :) I have highlighted in green the meaningful related bits. The healy/imf bit was just a supporting detail to the state we were in and was not meant to be a causative agent !
Infact you can delete the healy/imf bit and see my true meaning of the economic circumstances of that era.
phew
Quote from: Shropshire Lad on August 31, 2018, 09:57:23 AM
I visited my local B&Q and was surprised to find a lot of items such as wood screws etc not only out of stock but also with 'clearance' stickers on them.
Please don't go off topic by talking about B & Q :no: ;)
Oh sorry, the subject matter of the thread
is B & Q.
Far too much political 'venting' going on so please desist, everyone. I appreciate what actually occurred is 'history' but there are personal political opinions being included and that is most definitely against the rules.
To get back on track - ouch - I do wonder with todays news that Homebase might go into administration whether they believe there isn't any real competition at present. There is Wickes/Focus, which I prefer (along with Homebase) for what bits they do, and a lot of the newer discount stores do quite a bit of basic DIY stuff, but they don't mostly do the same wide range of goods, when you can get them.
Having had experience of Bunnings in Australia - like a superior B&Q in terms of range of goods available to my mind - I must express surprise with the mess they made of Homebase. But then I am not sure there is any real competition to Bunnings, well not in the areas of Sydney I have stayed over the years. Perhaps it's different in Australia as a whole.
Oh sorry - I've taken it off-topic again.........ahem.....
cheers,
Izzy
Quote from: daveg on August 31, 2018, 09:22:59 AM
Quote from: ntpntpntp on August 22, 2018, 09:55:17 PM
We lost our Our B&Q, it closed and the site became a Bunnings (and the old Homebase site became a bargain store), and is now a Homebase. Ho-hum. It's still full of expensive barbies that no-none wanted. Bunnings really got their target demographic wrong where we are.
Still wish we could have a B&Q back.
Homebase perhaps at risk again as they try and negotiate lower rents for their non-profitable sheds.
Dave G
Amazon are rumoured to be looking at their sites for delivery centres
Many of the Homebase 'sheds' in this area disappeared and their premises were occupied by 'The Range'
Quote from: Newportnobby on August 31, 2018, 03:19:23 PM
Many of the Homebase 'sheds' in this area disappeared and their premises were occupied by 'The Range'
Not really a fan of The Range - they have some useful stuff but too much naff tatt for my taste, (all that "love my home" type stuff!) However the boxes of broken choccy biccies are good!
Quote from: ntpntpntp on August 31, 2018, 05:38:14 PM
Not really a fan of The Range - they have some useful stuff but too much naff tatt for my taste
But their 'naff tatt' was the source of the 2 shaving mirrors I use to see into my fiddle yards :D
Some tatt has its uses
Well homebase, seems to have been rescued however with the loss of 42 stores, I think their problem is being a DIY chain that concentrated on pretty stuff not real DIY.
Bunnings took over and converted our nearest store, but I saw no advertising in our area of the change., so they lost their previous buyers of pretty stuff, without gaining genuine DIYers .
I see The Range as a pretty stuff store usefull for nothing.
DIY chains are feeling the squeeze, because builders merchants now will take any punter, whereas before they used to discourage non trade.
Wickes /focus are part of the Travis Perkins builders merchant chains, I could see the stores merge at some point.
Similarly I could see screwfix joining BQ in some stores. As they are both owned by kingfisher. I know I recently bought some boxes of screws recently in BQ labeled Screwfix.
There's a Bunnings in my home town, but there is also a store which is part of a chain called the Hardware Man which is just around the corner from Chez Bealman. It's a lot smaller but the service is much better and it's very convenient.
I guess the news is nothing but good for those working at Homebase but it's tough for folk who may lose their job by the announced closures.
Our local Homebase is a tatty looking place. Bunnings had it filled with huge tool chests and trolleys priced at hundreds, way beyond what the average DIY-er would need. More a Machine Mart type product really.
Worcester has several timber yards that now supply and will deliver to us humble home owners. Their products are often far superior to that which is on the racks at the DIY sheds. Perhaps it's because they know how to look after the stock rather than just put the stuff out on display.
I'll opt for Screwfix over B&Q mainly due to knowledgeable staff and pricing. Hope they keep separate!
Dave G
Some while back Homebase gave this as a reason for closing stores.
They said that the younger people in society were much less likely to take on DIY, as they have not accrued the skills as previous generations did. They said that many younger people tended to get in a tradesperson to carry out work, including decorating, and they sourced their materials from a builders merchant at discounted price.
I can see this as a career change later in life had me teaching woodwork to teenagers. (I had trained as a carpenter after leaving school) My young students had not been taught woodwork/metalwork during school as these subjects had been dropped, just as they had dropped the old Home economics/cookery in many schools(we now have health problems due to ready meals and high salt/sugar content) Who are the bod's who give such educational/curriculum advice?
It was an uphill struggle with the woodwork, as they could recognise a hammer and a saw and little else. They had never been shown so just did not know. It's not the whole story with Homebase though, they are/were damned expensive with many items as are B&Q. Just my two pennyworth.
Interesting! Here in Oz, in high schools there was a most definite intake of kids doing those subjects during my career.
I didn't get too many signing up for Physics!
Many schools here still teach DT type subjects like electronics, woodwork etc. It was made optional by Labour in 2004. Prior to this it was a requirement at GCSE.
Homebase is just too expensive IMO. It's up against the likes of Wickes, which is so much cheaper. Ok Wickes is marginally more 'trade' focused, you need to know what you want, but Homebase is hardly somewhere to go for a browse, so it's oretty moot!
for more years than I care to list I have been loyal to Do it all / Focus / Wickes.
name changes, but staff [helpfull, friendly / knowledgable in my local store] seem to remain the same.
local old style family timber merchant who cut to order closed many years ago, when B & Q opened, so only reason to go to B & Q was to get sheets cut, anything else was Wickes.
Champion Timber for wood for me, vastly superior to anything from the big 'sheds', otherwise Wickes or Amazon, unless I'm in a hurry then Homebase must suffice!