Farish Scott Tracy and Jeff Tracy, Virgin 57's which is the correct color of red?
I have only ever known one red to be used for virgin stock. Whether it be for post 1997 or 2001 stock. Post 2001 being Class 57, Voyager and Pendo. This being Phoenix P215 Virgin Flame Red.
Other colours
P148 Warning Panel Yellow (Post 85)
P299 Virgin Trains Silver (Voyagers only IIRC)
P300 Virgin Grey (New 2001)
P299 and P300 confuse me, as I thought the greys / silvers were all the same whether it be class 57, Voyager or Pendo?
These are enamel colours, I'm stumped on acrylic as I don't use them, but as they have only ever used one red, Railmatch or Humbrol acrylic's may also do the job.
Hope this helps...
Cheers
Anthony
I agree with this but the two Farish models have a different red. Hence which one is correct?
Colour doesn't scale, as you'll well know. So whichever you think looks right! Not least the 'right' colour is gloss, but that looks wrong anyway.
would this drop a hint :
https://fox-transfers.co.uk/paint-guide (https://fox-transfers.co.uk/paint-guide)
https://www.modelrailwaysdirect.co.uk/Humbrol-AB2421-RC421-Virgin-Trains-Red/ (https://www.modelrailwaysdirect.co.uk/Humbrol-AB2421-RC421-Virgin-Trains-Red/)
That still doesn't tell you which of the Farish models is "right", but I still say that's moot given how different colours look on models, and in different light conditions. Neither looks particularly wrong IMO, although I admit I've never seen them side by side.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/67/3761-040718105526.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=67190)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/67/3761-040718105543.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=67191)
Top one, all day long, something weird with the bottom one, they're not normally that dark! Unless the lighting is very weird.
Top image seems to be under yellowish lighting looking at the white stripes... still seems a long way apart though...
need a side by side under same lighting to be sure?
Google search for both named models shows the upper red version not the 'maroon' lower one
The top one looks better to me but colour perception varies hugely depending on lighting. The pics of the 2 Farish models are lit very differently and the variation may not be so pronounced when the models are side by side.
Just for comparison, here are 2 shots of the real thing which I am pretty sure are really the same colour. However due to the lighting, the top image appears to match the first Farish loco while the second matches the lower one.
"Your eyes can deceive you. Don't trust them!" - Obi-wan Kenobi ;)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/57307_Castleton_East_Junction_%281%29.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2237/2395702152_8346989137.jpg)
Yes, it's definitely much brighter than the second one appears, but I suspect it's the appearance rather than anything else.
Why are you asking? If you're wanting to colour match a Virgin item then you want a more vibrant colour certainly. Phoenix's virgin red is good, not entirely dissimilar to DBS red.
Quote from: Snowwolflair on July 04, 2018, 10:55:58 AM
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/67/3761-040718105526.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=67190)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/67/3761-040718105543.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=67191)
Can we re-title the thread "
which of these photos was taken by someone who has no idea how to adjust the settings on his camera for different light conditions."
If you look at photos taken in the same lighting conditions the two models look the same shade to me...
e.g.
https://hattonsimages.blob.core.windows.net/products/371-650_12456_Qty1_RULER.jpg (https://hattonsimages.blob.core.windows.net/products/371-650_12456_Qty1_RULER.jpg)
https://hattonsimages.blob.core.windows.net/products/371-650A_3214637_Qty1_ruler1.jpg (https://hattonsimages.blob.core.windows.net/products/371-650A_3214637_Qty1_ruler1.jpg)
Having seen both together in the same lighting there is a significant difference. The later model has a lot more Blue in the Red giving making it a Blood Gore color not a bright red.
I agree with Snowwolflair that there is definitely a difference in the two shades on the Farish 57. I thought the latest version (with the Dellner) was the wrong colour personally.
Cheers, Mike
I certainly agree on the above, based on those photos (and Mike's recollection) the dellner-fitter one is too dark. I did have one and don't remember it being that dark though. Perhaps they changed a batch.
I found this which may well explain the differences at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_UK_Railways/Colours_list (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_UK_Railways/Colours_list) may also help with many other schemes.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/67/5581-050718112241.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=67231)
Thanks Fardap, as you say this is of very great use far beyond this thread. :beers:
That is interesting, although of course the 57s were only used on the WCML, and the Virgin 57s predate the VTEC franchise.
these locos are now at carlisle in drs blue livery
Not all of them, some went to WCR I recall.
There's still a handful used for rescuing Pendos/Voyagers, so they tend to be spread around the WCML albeit all in DRS blue now. There's nearly always one DRS one at Rugby, and often one at Euston. Lady Penelope still retains the pink 'Thunderbird' nameplates, don't think any of the others do.
the euston loco has been seen outside willesden shed and i have seen one at preston
57001 is under repair
57006 / 313 - 16 and 57601 are operational
Fair enough, there were about 15 Thunderbirds when they were using them as service locos though, I think some went to ATW, although have since been replaced by 67s.
But we digress...
several ideas
1. Responsibility for the Arriva Ytains wales franchise was later devolved to the Welsh Government as a result of the Railways Act 2005 and the Transport (Wales) Act 2006, and it works closely with Arriva Trains Wales to develop the railway network within Wales. This has included the introduction of direct services between North and South Wales.
this will clear up the north wales situation :
http://www.nwrail.org.uk/c57-390.htm (http://www.nwrail.org.uk/c57-390.htm)
the https://directrailservices.com/virgin-thunderbirds.html (https://directrailservices.com/virgin-thunderbirds.html) will clear this up
virgin east coast paint scheme may help differentiate colours. i reckon were looking at the lighter red though i would happily go with the points raised about lighting and the contributor pointing colour schemes
I think this photo from the Revolution site give the answer.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/67/3761-050718140743.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=67233)
i remember seeking the model kinlet wharf and the penelino on that layout -
We're going in circles here, because either the photo above of the dellner-fitted variant is dire, or there were different batches in different colours.
Certainly I had a dellner-fitted one and I don't recall it being markedly different from either the Voyagers or the 'pretendolino' stock, a fairly bright hue. The one photographed above (which I assume is the one on eBay?) appears to be the wrong colour, much too dark. This either means that some of the dellner-fitted models were a much darker 'blood red' colour, which is wrong for the prototype, or it's a terrible photo.
The latter seems more likely, particularly as that photo from Revolution is of the same model, and their Pendolinos certainly appear (correctly) to use a much more vivid shade of red. Again, mine match my Voyagers and mk3s.
If you're considering a purchase bear in mind the non-dellner-fitted ones are only prototypically accurate for a short period in 2002/3, they were quickly fitted with dellners so they could be used to drag Pendolinos/Voyagers more easily.
njee
I think you are correct about a bad batch and then corrected ones.
Purists need not read the following (tongue in cheek), for modeling purposes a variation such as this (and to a certain extent applies to the Dapol mismatches) I model them as works repaints whereby a slightly different shade was used, it looks more obvious on our layouts but it did happen in the real world (the dirt covered most of it up eventually)
You are the sort of person who upsets the Corporate Image Marketing types who carry around a Pantone color chart at all times. :D