I discovered decades ago that I don't like running model trains.
At exhibitions our club had a large N-Trak layout, some people would run trains round and round for hours. For me twice round was about my limit before boredom set in and the train was parked. So for a loop layout it has about 3 minutes of entertainment value. :sleep:
Operating trains is a whole different kettle of fish and can keep me interested for hours at a stretch. :)
However what I really like is making stuff: electronics, programming, computer control, automation, scenery, repairs, maintenance, improvements, buildings, painting, design, etc.
It is all about personality and interests but I am curious about what floats other persons' boats. :hmmm:
I would guess people's track plans reflect what they like to do and how they operate their layout. In my instance, I have 2 lower level main ovals for 'watching trains go past' and an upper level branch line oval c/w goods shed, loco shed, dairy etc to do some shunting on.
Both main and branch lines have fiddle yards, though, as I just couldn't watch the same train going round and round.
Sadly, with shaky hands and less than 100% perfect eyesight I find it very difficult to make anything so tend to buy RTR/RTP stuff, but I still consider I am making a layout rather than a train set.
I like to see trains running slowly rather than stuff hurtling round and round at an obviously out of scale speed.
Shunting does not really float my boat though. I actually enjoy making stuff/scratchbuilding as much if not more so than running trains. Each to their own of course.
My interest is in the modelling, actually running trains round and round or shunting does not interest me much.
That being said, my modelling is for a purpose, Tiree is being converted into an exhibition layout, so it will keep its roundy track and a branch line but with sufficient fiddle yard that not much fiddling will not be required, assembled trains will take their turn. Keeping things moving at a show is essential.
The Home layout Ludgershall, also has a roundy track, so when I'm sitting there modelling something can just wander around...
I certainly believe that the late Peter Denny's Buckingham Branch addressed this problem.
Mind you, it was run to bells and timetables and required multiple operators!
I suppose I get more pleasure out of construction of the layout rather than operating, but on the other hand I do love to collect locos and stock so they need to have a run from time to time!
My exhibition layout is definitely of the roundy-roundy style, though usually the sequence is that each train only makes one circuit in turn and returns to the fiddleyard. I'm not a fan of sending the same train round and round repeatedly. This tends to be enforced by storing two trains on each fiddleyard line apart from a couple of double-length long freights or IC expresses, and this means there's usually around 24 trains for the visiting public to enjoy.
Having been exhibiting since the 70s, it's pretty obvious to me that the general public at shows like to see trains running by and soon walk away from layouts focussed too much on shunting and/or timetabled operation with not a lot happening.
I definitely understand where you are coming from. I would sooner go and put up three bookcases at my brother's house than run my layout in the shed down the garden. If I go down there, I have to spend twenty minutes cleaning track, and another ten minutes trying to clean point blades so that locos don't stall.
If I just jump into the running, without cleaning first, I will be disappointed when the trains keep stopping.
If I do some scenery though, or build a kit, or renumber a loco, I can jump straight in and get the job done. More interesting for me than running trains.
Andy
UK
I never run trains at home except for testing. For me there is no point without an audience.
At exhibitions, it's strictly one circuit per train to preserve some degree of realism, and just enough gap between trains for the signals to go to at least one yellow! Both my exhibition layouts also have one good shunting move that can happen whilst trains are running though. This gives interest to the operator and hopefully the public.
To add to the engagement there is also manual signalling, and in the case of Lofhole 'phone communication with the Regional Signal Centre.
I seem to recall a similar thread a couple of years ago on the "one circuit per train" issue with a fair bit of "argument ad populum" to justify people's positions. Just stopped myself in time!!
Cheers Jon :)
Quote from: PostModN66 on April 04, 2018, 12:23:26 PM
I never run trains at home except for testing. For me there is no point without an audience.
Having seen your layout, and the way it's operated, I'd agree that besides being wonderfully modelled, it is very watchable. Some layouts look nice but are boring to watch. Others are designed for spectators, even if the modelling itself is nothing special. A rare few manage both.
But if you're not exhibiting, then your layout really only has an audience of one. Or perhaps the model maker and his family -- especially youngsters. My little girl loves watching trains go by, and Kato Unitrack lets me indulge her without worrying too much about anything getting damaged. Even if trains fall off the track (hardly unusual when toddlers are spectating) they only fall a few mm onto the carpet or table, so no harm done.
Still, I totally get the arguments made above. I personally enjoy making the scenics most, and especially nowadays work on little dioramas that let me try something new. The previous one was to mess around with a London Underground setting; the one I'm doing now is a bit of a mainline station with etched brass catenary gantries across the platforms. Only a few feet long, but lets me play about and experiment with something new and without spending too much money.
Cheers, NeMo
I must be a bit strange, then.
I love running trains into a terminus and moving 'em around! :uneasy:
Quote from: texhorse on April 04, 2018, 12:13:55 PM
If I go down [to the shed], I have to spend twenty minutes cleaning track, and another ten minutes trying to clean point blades so that locos don't stall.
I read that quite often - people finding the need to clean frequently to maintain good running. I don't seem to get that sort of constant problem at all, despite my layout being stored boxed up for months on end in a garage in between exhibitions. When it comes out and is set up indoors for a check-over prior to a show then usually a quick light burnish with a track rubber is all that's needed. Once up and running it's then fine for weeks.
I used electrofrog points with frog polarity switching on all the scenic trackwork so they've been pretty much 100% reliable for 20+ years. The fiddleyard is Setrack pointwork without polarity switching so not quite as good as the electrofrogs but still only needs occasional blade cleaning or adjustment and which only takes a minute or so.
I must admit I've never considered sheds and lofts to be a good environment for a model railway unless fully lined out and kept at a constant temperature and humidity. Sometimes I wonder if it may be condensation rather than dirty track which upsets running. For example if I set the layout up at a show on Friday evening and it's in a large hall that cools overnight, then the next morning a second brief go round with the track rubber is sometimes worthwhile. When I bring it all indoors from the garage to set-up, I leave it to acclimatise for a while before I assemble.
When I first got into n gauge, just over 2 years ago, my intention was to build a coffee table with a train layout inside the top. This is I duly did and, having enjoyed myself so much, decided to build a bigger layout. The current layout is approximately 12' long and is either approximately 2' 9" or 4' wide, (depending which bit we are talking about). I have got most of the track in place and, being Kato Unitrack, I have been able to alter the layout a number of times. The track is still not fixed and I do occasionally run a few trains. However, I have to admit that I prefer the 'modelling' aspect to the running aspect.
Whilst I enjoy other aspects of our hobby, the real fun, for me, is running trains. Round and round; one 'lap' is never enough. I particularly like the way the trains look running on curved track and tend to use a bigger radius than the minimum I can get away with. I'll stop the train in the station every now and again and then set it off on its journey. After a while, I leave this train in a visible loop and run another. A little branch line train runs to and fro from the bay platform, under manual control. I have occasionally thought about automatic operation of the branch line.
I enjoy making models, but it is with the purpose of being part of the overall operational scene, rather than as an exercise in pure modelling. I don't think I have ever made a model for the simple pleasure of just making it.
For me, my model railway is a result of my interest in railways and, in particular, steam railways rather than as an expression of an interest in modelling.
I find the real fun with model railways is seeing them run. I suppose I am consistent here as that's the fun, to me, of a 1:1 scale steam railway as well.
I find a reasonably comfortable seat and tea/coffee/beer/wine to hand according to the time of day adds to the enjoyment. A jolly nice way to spend half-an-hour or so.
I expect that this approach will be in the minority on the Forum. Certainly some of the modelling skills on display are absolutely fabulous and please do keep these posts coming as they are an inspiration.
Isn't 'N' gauge fun?
Best wishes.
John
I'm primarily a model maker, not just model railways but also aircraft, ships and AFVs. It is fun learning about the prototypes especially railways. I like to watch trains running with little input but occasionally get a urge to do some shunting. Dartley Coombe is meant as an exhibition layout as I will not get as much out of running an end to end as I would watching trains run by.
Overall, it's about making things for me, especially when I'm not doing other outdoor activities (which include walking, wildlife photography, diy and gardening). A reaction to a day job which either ties me to a computer screen or sees me driving 100s of miles a week.
As someone just starting the actual modeling side of the hobby (been collecting for a long time, never had space or time to create the layout), I am very much looking forward to bringing to fruition my ideas and thoughts (not looking forward to wiring), as for running or operating ideally I'd like to have a round roundy train that can be stopped in a fiddle yard to "swap" for another roundy train, but in the scenic side a TMD, Goods yard or carriage siding with some shunting going on would keep interest there.
With roundy roundy trains are we just setting them off to run by themselves, if so does it create more interest to have it computer controlled and run to a timetable per se, expresses to overtake semi-locals, freights put in sidings, to me that would keep movement there and give operators a chance to "shunt" or intervene in the computer side if needed.
A layout with large gaps or no movement don't hold interest for anyone watching.
Quote from: Intercity on April 04, 2018, 03:31:55 PM
As someone just starting the actual modeling side of the hobby (been collecting for a long time, never had space or time to create the layout), I am very much looking forward to bringing to fruition my ideas and thoughts (not looking forward to wiring), as for running or operating ideally I'd like to have a round roundy train that can be stopped in a fiddle yard to "swap" for another roundy train, but in the scenic side a TMD, Goods yard or carriage siding with some shunting going on would keep interest there.
With roundy roundy trains are we just setting them off to run by themselves, if so does it create more interest to have it computer controlled and run to a timetable per se, expresses to overtake semi-locals, freights put in sidings, to me that would keep movement there and give operators a chance to "shunt" or intervene in the computer side if needed.
A layout with large gaps or no movement don't hold interest for anyone watching.
Short answer - yes!
A layout designed so that shunting doesn't foul the running line really helps as this means you can do both things together, hopefully pleasing everyone. The other thing is to let people know what is going on; if you tell people that the semi local is being looped to allow the express to pass, either through some visible instructions or just speaking verbally ( :confused1:) it helps to tell a story that makes sense of the layout
Cheers Jon :)
I like constructing layouts and building scenery which the trains can travel through.
It has to be roundy roundy or similar for me as I love to relax and watch trains run around. Shunting leaves me completely cold and shunting layouts at exhibitions Are a turn off.
Electronics is an area in which I have no interest either so the simpler the better for me. DCC and computer control, electronic points and signals etc hold no interest.
However, it's what makes this hobby so interesting, there are so many different angles to it. If we were all the same it would be boring.
Quote from: Intercity on April 04, 2018, 03:31:55 PM
With roundy roundy trains are we just setting them off to run by themselves, if so does it create more interest to have it computer controlled and run to a timetable per se, expresses to overtake semi-locals, freights put in sidings, to me that would keep movement there and give operators a chance to "shunt" or intervene in the computer side if needed.
Depends on what "floats your boat" really. I am a software developer so naturally have some interest in the possibilities of computer control and automation, but funnily enough I've never bothered even though I built my layout in the 90s with such possibilities in mind - for example all pointwork has individual CDUs triggered by low power control voltages. Having taken said layout to 70+ shows I think we'd have found it even less interesting to operate had the main roundy-roundy running been automated.
I do have a set of additional boards that fit to the front of the main layout but with completely separate trackwork designed to integrate with modular layout systems. If necessary I can fit automated fiddleyards to each end of my sections and leave that front trackwork to run itself while we operate the main layout.
I quite like most aspects of the hobby, except ballasting. I really enjoy watching the trains go by, and have built a layout which is just that - see sig for Northallerton - but over the last six years of construction, I've enjoyed almost everything. I do a bit of wood butchery anyway, as a second hobby, so building baseboards is always a plus for me. I enjoyed learning new skills as we've gone along, but I think the thing I've enjoyed most is being part of a club. The challenges of working as a team and the end result has been most satisfying. Its great fun working as a team within a club. There are loads of interactions, mainly positive, some more challenging, and the end result is a model we enjoy running. Even some of my P4 and O gauge friends enjoy running our layout, so there must be something good about watching the trains go by.
cheers
kirky
I like running trains and shunting when I finally fit my point motors and that's the way the layout is designed. Plus I can do silly things like this https://youtu.be/-vEXv3_fw-0 and this lol https://youtu.be/nA3uC-XPor8
Watching my Minitrix Evening Star pull an ad-hoc rake of Staniers round and round on what passes for my layout, and it is most pleasurable. Someone was asking about Farish Staniers on another thread so I had them out, and the 9F is nice and reliable, and I have special dispensation from the rivet counter police. Totally strapped for time at the moment, so unable to do any of the myriad other model railway things I like doing, though fortunately the layout is in my home office where I spend a lot of time, and it's all Tomix track so Just Works (TM) without even being particularly nailed down, so putting something on the track and turning the controller all the way up to "slow trundle" and enjoying the view, is a viable option. It's also an excellent source of white noise to drown out the Squidlet (aged 3-and-a-bit) when he's at home and I need to concentrate.
This has got to be one of the most reassuring threads I've read on this forum, or any of the American ones I'm a member of, in a very long time.
I always thought I was one on my own, to enjoy building the layout and supporting tasks, more than running the trains. I'm glad I'm not alone in these thoughts.
Andy
UK
Quote from: port perran on April 04, 2018, 03:47:00 PM
I like constructing layouts and building scenery which the trains can travel through.
It has to be roundy roundy or similar for me as I love to relax and watch trains run around. Shunting leaves me completely cold and shunting layouts at exhibitions Are a turn off.
Electronics is an area in which I have no interest either so the simpler the better for me. DCC and computer control, electronic points and signals etc hold no interest.
However, it's what makes this hobby so interesting, there are so many different angles to it. If we were all the same it would be boring.
My philosophy entirely! That's the beauty of this hobby - you can approach it in so many ways and no two people will do it the same. Long may it continue.
Cheers,
Chris
Quote from: port perran on April 04, 2018, 03:47:00 PM
I like constructing layouts and building scenery which the trains can travel through.
It has to be roundy roundy or similar for me as I love to relax and watch trains run around. Shunting leaves me completely cold and shunting layouts at exhibitions Are a turn off.
Electronics is an area in which I have no interest either so the simpler the better for me. DCC and computer control, electronic points and signals etc hold no interest.
However, it's what makes this hobby so interesting, there are so many different angles to it. If we were all the same it would be boring.
Most of the sentiments above apply with one exception I do run DCC.
I like seeing the trains run. So, for me it has to be a continuous motion (loop).
I like the sound they make, it's soothing hearing the miniature clickity-clack.
Roundy-round!
In over 20 years since rejoining the hobby I have never completed a layout. I like running trains too much to get to grips with ballasting, wiring and boring stuff like that.
My layout sits on the dining table so I can view it from all angles. I tend to move my chair from time to time to get a different perspective.
Like you Scott I like listening to the clickety-click.
I ordered a garter blue Dapol A4 with valances yesterday, and the new Farish Ronseal tank wagon.
Looking forward to seeing those in action.
Oh yes, I also ordered a curved point because my second favourite model railway activity is altering the track plan.
Best regards,
Joe
I am definitely into running trains more than the modelling side so much so I bought a layout ready built off a fellow NGS member some years ago now.
I find the modelling/kit building/side a chore if I'm honest and With increasingly dwindling leisure time I want to be playing trains rather than cleaning/polishing/maintaining/building/making and working on stuff. I like driving trains and watching them zip by at my command/speed.
That being said I do occasionally dabble with modelling albeit on very small projects that I know I can finish before I lose interest.
Ultimately playing and running trains is certainly my interest.
Before I busted up my previous start on building a layout (for reasons well documented in other threads), I had most of the track laid and I did enjoy running the trains for a while. I was just starting in to build some of the electronic parts I wanted to add when the descent of the builders began. I am now slowly getting back in to building version two. I have to admit that the interest has swung towards the building of a layout that looks pleasing, so I think that watching the trains go by will figure large.
I have thought a lot about this while waiting to get back to the build. To make watching the trains go by easier, I will be slowly adding a few automated aspects to the system. The first of these is a suggestion of a branch line which doesn't even connect to the main layout. There are two DMUs which 'live' under a hill and come out through a tunnel portal, pull into the station, wait for a while, then go off scene again. Which one comes along and how long till the next one comes are randomly decided. Yeah, I guess I'm a watcher. The centre of the layout does, however, have a sort of an Inglenook configuration so other possibilities are there if desired.
It's going to be a while yet before sitting back and watching becomes a complete possibility though, much building still to do (I'm pleased to say).
I think I must spend about 99% of my time modelling and 1% operating. And that's fine; all the different creative aspects of modelling is what I really like.
A few minutes operating at home is usually enough for me and that is normally to test something.
It's a bit of a different story at exhibitions though. I've really enjoyed putting an operating sequence together to vary the trains running through the layout.
Roger.
Yep , I like running trains. if not I could have saved £££s buying Del Prado stuff ,
seems like a dumb question.
I like to design and build layouts, do the scenery and then watch the trains go by. I've always had roundy roundy layouts and I do minimal shunting. I have far too much stock for my layout so I suppose I'm a bit of a collector too.
Our modular club layout is one great big roundy roundy so there are lots more that enjoy just sitting back and watching the trains go by.
:NGaugersRule:
I found this thread really interesting, it shows how diverse we all are in this great hobby, and how it can accommodate the wide range of interests. I for one enjoy the building of the layout, scenery and buildings, but most of all I REALLY enjoy sitting and watching the trains go past. Even better with a beer in hand.
cheers
Graham
I really like doing the scenery most of all but then I find it very relaxing just watching the trains going through the miniature world that I created .My layout is 20ft X 8ft and we allways run a train at least twice round then chsnge it for the next one .And we have a rule that every time we have a running session my late mate CYRILs freight train headed by his Black Five which I named Squirell ,which was his nick name , HAS to run round at least twice in his memory .
Everyone who met him knows what a really nice guy he was ,A real character.
Bob Tidbury
Love it!
As soon as I got to a point where I could put my stock on the layout it was fatal, barely made progress since as, given 15 minutes, I could do some ballasting, or I could just run some trains around!
Love watching my trains go round, but then I am easily pleased :D
Seriously though, I get enjoyment out of all aspects of the hobby, even ballasting!
Quote from: Tornado on April 05, 2018, 05:28:07 PM
Seriously though, I get enjoyment out of all aspects of the hobby, even ballasting!
:goggleeyes:
The chaps in the white coats will be 'round soon to fetch you home -- that's just not normal!
NeMo
Ballasting is fun, I find it quite relaxing just brushing grains around with an old makeup brush then drizzling dilute PVA down the sides of the rails. I can't understand what's not to like about it.
How about un-gumming gummed up points ?
Roundy roundy
Clackity clack
Monday to Friday
I'm getting the knack
Fast in the corner
Onto the floor
My best steamer
Is no more
It's the ballasting that does it. Addles my brain ....
:laughabovepost:
Quote from: NeMo on April 05, 2018, 05:38:54 PM
Quote from: Tornado on April 05, 2018, 05:28:07 PM
Seriously though, I get enjoyment out of all aspects of the hobby, even ballasting!
:goggleeyes:
The chaps in the white coats will be 'round soon to fetch you home -- that's just not normal!
NeMo
:D :D :D :P
What a great topic! You have really made me think.
I am a self confessed 'roundy roundy' er, but then when I actually go and play trains I get bored very quickly. I have started making up shunting puzzles, how to get the inspection train out and a loco on the right end without using the giant hand in the sky.
I actually love making or mending stuff more than anything else and it has always been that way. I particularly love a good wiring session, but like most things. Beattie road has stalled at the moment because i can't get up any enthusiasm for foam bashing. One of the few jobs I really can't stand.
Have some surface mount point motors to put on the ones I can't reach, that may install some enthusiasm once I beat this flu. I had a cold, then just as I was coming out of it got a dose of real fly, been in bed for 4 days straight, just about managed to crawl in front of the tv this morning.
Hope you improve quickly matty. :thumbsup: And I know exactly what you mean about lacking enthusiasm - I did about 30 minutes work yesterday on an incline and when I checked my notes, I found that I had not done any work on the layout since 29th January. :(. I blame the weather!
At present, my only chance to run any trains is on a continuous circuit of Kato unitrack which I have to setup each time on the dining-room table. When I receive new items I just ensure all is well, everything runs through the pointwork, and the locos have an acceptable hauling capacity after running-in. Then it all gets packed away again. :'(
While I get a certain amount of satisfaction increasing the loads to realistic train lengths, say 13 Mk1s behind a Castle, I do feel that I would soon find continuous running as boring as operating a bog-standard Ashburton-type layout.
When I can start the layout I have in mind, it will of course have continuous running facilities for running-in and some playingtest-running may take place, but mainly I hope to run it in a railway-like manner which doesn't invoke Rule 1 - very much. ;)
I have yet to experience the joys of track-laying and ballasting! :smiley-laughing: