Being relatively new to modelling n gauge, after modelling OO for too long, I'm looking at buying some more locos. Could you guys tell me who if anyone makes the best 9fs, Black 5s, a4 and and a3.
Many thanks in advance.
David.
For those locos in N, you have Farish and Dapol, and that's about it.
I think who makes and, if more than manufacturer, who makes the best of each of these types (9F, etc) is the meaning of the post. Not just who makes them.
If anyone makes them then there will always be someone who makes the best. :)
For availability and manufacturer, a quick internet browse or a visit to online shops (Hattons, Rails and so on) will supply at least who makes what.
"The best" usually involves a lot of discussion and anecdotes.
Not sure what you're getting at here. Although I think you're suggesting the OP wants a decision between the two for the same model.
I'm talking RTR, not kits or commissioned jobs.
It's Farish or Dapol.
I have two old Minitrix 9Fs, which I am very fond of, and, to be quite honest, forgot about in my reply.
Sorry!
Yes, but if both Farish and Dapol did an A4, there is a choice. I'm sure the OP knows of both brands, he's seeking recommendation on which to choose between when there is duplication. Seems pretty obvious, as per NinOz's post.
I don't know about anything pre-1990 however!
Thought I just said that?
No, you gave a curt reply which was no help.
If only one manufacturer makes each then its moot, but sure there's duplication, even where it's an old and new model, so which would you recommend?
I think we're going into too much detail here, so how about we let the OP clarify what is meant before flying off into irrelevant arguments.
Yes - really depends on what 'best' means - better detail, better running, reliability, less noise etc.
9F there is Minitrix and Dapol - Dapol looks much more like a 9F but has reliability issues
Black 5 and A3 has to be Farish IMHO
A4 choose between Dapol and Farish - both good IMHO
Best bet is for OP to find a mate(s) who have these locos and judge for themselves.
:beers:
It's not irrelevant arguments, the OP asked a very clear question, you've not answered it and then got in a hump when told you've not answered it!
Like I say, I don't model steam, but my answers would be:
Dapol A4
Dapol 9F
Not sure on the A3 as I believe both brands have a recent release (as well as a much older Farish release), and as above 'best' is hugely subjective.
Also not sure which brand makes a Black 5, suspect it's both.
Quote from: njee20 on March 11, 2018, 08:22:23 AM
It's not irrelevant arguments, the OP asked a very clear question, you've not answered it and then got in a hump when told you've not answered it!
Like I say, I don't model steam, but my answers would be:
Dapol A4
Dapol 9F
Not sure on the A3 as I believe both brands have a recent release (as well as a much older Farish release), and as above 'best' is hugely subjective.
Also not sure which brand makes a Black 5, suspect it's both.
I think only Farish do Black 5's. I have two of them.
Quote from: njee20 on March 11, 2018, 08:22:23 AM
It's not irrelevant arguments, the OP asked a very clear question, you've not answered it and then got in a hump when told you've not answered it!
Like I say, I don't model steam, but my answers would be:
Dapol A4
Dapol 9F
Not sure on the A3 as I believe both brands have a recent release (as well as a much older Farish release), and as above 'best' is hugely subjective.
Also not sure which brand makes a Black 5, suspect it's both.
Who's getting the hump here? Not me, buddy! :thumbsup:
9F - Dapol one is well detailed, the Minitrix version (no longer in production) is mechanically simpler, reliable but slightly ill-proportioned and less detailed by comparison.
A3 - Dapol one is better detailed. The 'old' Graham Farish version made in Poole (no longer in production) is mechanically simpler, reliable but ill-proportioned by comparison.
On a side note, 'new' Graham Farish makes lovely A1 and A2 locos which are worth checking out.
A4 - Dapol one is better detailed. The 'old' Graham Farish version made in Poole (no longer in production) is mechanically simpler, reliable but ill-proportioned by comparison.
Black Five - Graham Farish have had these in the collection for a long time, there is an original, basic one which has 'pizza cutter' wheels and a post 2010 version which is pretty nice, although the front bogie looks basic - I expect there's a brass etch to replace it somewhere...
The dividing line is whether you want a loco which is easy to add DCC to (e.g the Dapol or new Farish ones.) The newer locos come with NEM pocket couplings which may or may not be important, these can be added to older locos with a Dapol kit.
That's all I know. I expect someone here might be able to add more info or prove me wrong somehow...
Geez, take a deep breath guys. Not that important!
Yes emjaybee, I think that only Farish made a Black 5, got 6 myself but none from Dapol.
Quote from: d-a-n on March 11, 2018, 08:36:53 AM
9F - Dapol one is well detailed, the Minitrix version (no longer in production) is mechanically simpler, reliable but slightly ill-proportioned and less detailed by comparison.
A3 - Dapol one is better detailed. The 'old' Graham Farish version made in Poole (no longer in production) is mechanically simpler, reliable but ill-proportioned by comparison.
On a side note, 'new' Graham Farish makes lovely A1 and A2 locos which are worth checking out.
A4 - Dapol one is better detailed. The 'old' Graham Farish version made in Poole (no longer in production) is mechanically simpler, reliable but ill-proportioned by comparison.
Black Five - Graham Farish have had these in the collection for a long time, there is an original, basic one which has 'pizza cutter' wheels and a post 2010 version which is pretty nice, although the front bogie looks basic - I expect there's a brass etch to replace it somewhere...
The dividing line is whether you want a loco which is easy to add DCC to (e.g the Dapol or new Farish ones.) The newer locos come with NEM pocket couplings which may or may not be important, these can be added to older locos with a Dapol kit.
That's all I know. I expect someone here might be able to add more info or prove me wrong somehow...
What an informative, comprehensive and balanced post - Very refreshing. Thank you. ;) :beers:
Quote from: austinbob on March 11, 2018, 08:15:55 AM
Best bet is for OP to find a mate(s) who have these locos and judge for themselves.
:beers:
This is a good shout - are you part of a model railway club? If not, you could go to a show or a train fair to have a hands on look, especially at the older out of production stuff - the camera is unkind to these older models!
Quote from: IkBrunel on March 10, 2018, 10:44:47 PM
Being relatively new to modelling n gauge, after modelling OO for too long, I'm looking at buying some more locos. Could you guys tell me who if anyone makes the best 9fs, Black 5s, a4 and and a3.
Many thanks in advance.
David.
Hello David.
Like you I am new to British 'N' gauge, but not to model railways. I have been accumulating locomotives and having fun playing with them. You wrote 'anyone who makes' so I'll confine myself to current models. I think it is fair to say that all are good but there can be a variation between models. Manufacturer 'Swoosh' might make a 4-4-0 and a 4-6-0. There might be something approaching a consensus that the 4-4-0 is a better model. But some 4-4-0s might not be as good runners as others. Likewise, there are likely to be some well-running 4-6-0s with particularly happy owners. Manufacturer 'Glug' is not likely to make the same models (although it has occurred - Graham Farish and Dapol both made a 'B1' 4-6-0), but might well make models of similar classes. There is likely to be much debate about which manufacture's products are better! In my limited experience, for running quality, the biggest variation appears to be within the same manufacturer's models of the same class rather than between different models or manufacturers. You are likely to find that modellers generally (well sort of!) agree that Glug is usually the better manufacturer but its 2-8-0 is not a good-running model. You'll then meet someone whose best-performing model is a Glug 2-8-0! These little models have a lot of hand-assembly and there is considerable scope for variation in quality.
So, there is not a lot of duplication between the manufacturers and there is variation in quality between supposedly identical models. It's likely that you will run models from different manufacturers happily together on your layout.
Graham Farish tender locomotives fall into two categories: tender drive and locomotive drive. The very latest ones tend to be locomotive drive. Dapol tender locomotives have the motor in the tender which drives the locomotive's wheels
via a drive shaft with a universal joint. Both manufacturers make highly-detailed models, mostly from moulded plastic, although there is a recent move to some diecast metal in models such as the Graham Farish LMS '3F '0-6-0T' (sometimes called a 'Jinty').
Union Mills models are all diecast inside-cylindered prototypes with tender drive. They are good for basic detail but lack the fine detailing of Graham Farish and Dapol. They are, in my experience, an exception to my own rule of 'variation between identical models' as I have found that they are always very good indeed.
Probably the best course of action is to choose the locomotive you want, buy one and then run it in carefully following the manufacturer's instructions. If it runs well keep it and enjoy it. If it doesn't, then return it to the retailer. Hopefully, the replacement will be fine. It has in the three instances when I have returned a poor-running model.
Finally, for your examples, Dapol manufactures the 'A3', 'A4' and '9F'. Graham Farish make the 'Black 5'.
I hope this has been of some help and is based on my very limited experience.
With best wishes.
John
Excellent response. Thank you!
The thread itself is a bit of a waste of time as the 'Review' section will give everyone's views (particularly owners) and some pics too. All that's happening here is some more recent views and a lot of regurgitation.
I'd really suggest just looking at reviews of Bachfar steam and Dapol steam.
Not forgetting that Minitrix also made A3 and A4. As with the 9f they're long out of production but still worth a look
Thank you for the replies guys. I should have gone into more detail in my original question. I meant who makes the best running ready to run model. My layout is dcc so I would prefer if they where dcc ready. Thanks for the help so far guys. I really appreciate it.