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General Category => N Gauge Discussion => Topic started by: Snowwolflair on March 05, 2018, 06:58:43 PM

Title: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: Snowwolflair on March 05, 2018, 06:58:43 PM
I'm looking for scale drawings for the NER Dynamometer car used for the Mallard speed run.

I'm particularly looking for detail, internal and under the coach

Any help would be appreciated.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/3761-050318185732.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=62625)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/3761-050318185800.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=62626)
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: exmouthcraig on March 05, 2018, 07:05:44 PM
Didn't Rails of Sheffield commission one of these in OO??

I don't know if it ever got built or sold but guess that could maybe help with drawings

:hmmm:
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: Snowwolflair on March 05, 2018, 07:09:09 PM
Quote from: exmouthcraig on March 05, 2018, 07:05:44 PM
Didn't Rails of Sheffield commission one of these in OO??

I don't know if it ever got built or sold but guess that could maybe help with drawings

:hmmm:

Yes its a resin model and they are currently selling it.  Its made by a third party who I believe got access to the original at the York Museum.  I have asked but not got a response, probably as I have not offered to cross their palms with silver.
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: thebrighton on March 05, 2018, 07:11:58 PM
Have you seen this:
https://www.shapeways.com/product/5Z92CJ6JB/o-148fs-ner-dynamometer-coach-1?optionId=64917960 (https://www.shapeways.com/product/5Z92CJ6JB/o-148fs-ner-dynamometer-coach-1?optionId=64917960)
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: exmouthcraig on March 05, 2018, 07:13:19 PM
Indeed. How about contacting NRM direct? Surely their library must have a wealth of information available at a small cost for copying and sending??? Or just book a trip there and waste the rest of the day trekking round the NRM  :bounce:
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: kirky on March 05, 2018, 07:51:34 PM
Quote from: exmouthcraig on March 05, 2018, 07:13:19 PM
Indeed. How about contacting NRM direct? Surely their library must have a wealth of information available at a small cost for copying and sending??? Or just book a trip there and waste the rest of the day trekking round the NRM  :bounce:
see reply no 2
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: Snowwolflair on March 05, 2018, 07:55:46 PM
Quote from: thebrighton on March 05, 2018, 07:11:58 PM
Have you seen this:
https://www.shapeways.com/product/5Z92CJ6JB/o-148fs-ner-dynamometer-coach-1?optionId=64917960 (https://www.shapeways.com/product/5Z92CJ6JB/o-148fs-ner-dynamometer-coach-1?optionId=64917960)

Yes, it arrives in the post tomorrow  :), hence i'm looking for drawings.  I asked the designer to release it in Frosted Extreme Detail and i'm looking forward to seeing how it comes out.
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: Snowwolflair on March 05, 2018, 07:57:31 PM
QuoteOr just book a trip there and waste the rest of the day trekking round the NRM  :bounce:

I think the York show is due a long weekend visit this year.
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: kiwi1941 on March 05, 2018, 09:00:05 PM
Quote from: Snowwolflair on March 05, 2018, 07:55:46 PM
Quote from: thebrighton on March 05, 2018, 07:11:58 PM
Have you seen this:
https://www.shapeways.com/product/5Z92CJ6JB/o-148fs-ner-dynamometer-coach-1?optionId=64917960 (https://www.shapeways.com/product/5Z92CJ6JB/o-148fs-ner-dynamometer-coach-1?optionId=64917960)

Yes, it arrives in the post tomorrow  :), hence i'm looking for drawings.  I asked the designer to release it in Frosted Extreme Detail and i'm looking forward to seeing how it comes out.
Please keep us up to date with your progress. I'd love one but would like to know how difficult it will be before investing. TIA Brian
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: Snowwolflair on March 05, 2018, 09:04:45 PM
Quote from: kiwi1941 on March 05, 2018, 09:00:05 PM
Quote from: Snowwolflair on March 05, 2018, 07:55:46 PM
Quote from: thebrighton on March 05, 2018, 07:11:58 PM
Have you seen this:
https://www.shapeways.com/product/5Z92CJ6JB/o-148fs-ner-dynamometer-coach-1?optionId=64917960 (https://www.shapeways.com/product/5Z92CJ6JB/o-148fs-ner-dynamometer-coach-1?optionId=64917960)

Yes, it arrives in the post tomorrow  :), hence i'm looking for drawings.  I asked the designer to release it in Frosted Extreme Detail and i'm looking forward to seeing how it comes out.
Please keep us up to date with your progress. I'd love one but would like to know how difficult it will be before investing. TIA Brian

It was a spontaneous purchase, so not done much planning yet (I usually research before I buy).  However, once I have thought it through I will post a build thread.

I have some Gresley teak coaches to build and I will probably do it with them as there will be common teak wood effects.
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: thebrighton on March 05, 2018, 09:42:29 PM
Quote from: Snowwolflair on March 05, 2018, 09:04:45 PM
It was a spontaneous purchase, so not done much planning yet (I usually research before I buy).  However, once I have thought it through I will post a build thread.
Same here last week. No idea what I'm going to do with it though!
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: RailGooner on March 05, 2018, 10:12:08 PM
Quote from: exmouthcraig on March 05, 2018, 07:05:44 PM
Didn't Rails of Sheffield commission one of these in OO??
...

Yep, a Rapido Trains model. Two versions are being produced - (v1) Mallard record run, and (v2) BR locomotive exchange trials. I'm seriously considering buying a v1.
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: Snowwolflair on March 05, 2018, 10:35:02 PM
Quote from: thebrighton on March 05, 2018, 09:42:29 PM
Quote from: Snowwolflair on March 05, 2018, 09:04:45 PM
It was a spontaneous purchase, so not done much planning yet (I usually research before I buy).  However, once I have thought it through I will post a build thread.
Same here last week. No idea what I'm going to do with it though!

Did you order Ex FUD or the tough white plastic.  Its a tossup which to use but I have developed a sequence of prep that gives me a good surface with FUD.
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: thebrighton on March 06, 2018, 09:38:21 AM
I went for the extreme FUD. I'll wait and see if the extra few quid was worth it.
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: Snowwolflair on March 06, 2018, 10:03:30 AM
Definitely worth the extra money, this is a model to take some time over.


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/3761-060318100311.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=62645)
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: Cutter on March 28, 2018, 01:59:26 AM
Search Google images for  "NER dynamometer interior" and you'll find a couple of useful photos of the real thing and several images of model interiors. I too have ordered the 3D print -- remember that this vehicle was lined in 1938! Will Fox add "DYNAMOMETER CAR" to their N scale carriage branding transfer sheet one day as they have for OO do you think?
Now if only someone would do an N gauge 3D print of the 12 wheeled saloons from the LNER royal train ...
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: Snowwolflair on March 28, 2018, 02:08:22 AM
Working on transfers  :)


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/63/3761-280318020746.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=63476)
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: Cutter on March 28, 2018, 01:46:14 PM
To go back to the original question, there is a drawing of the dynamometer car in the Isinglass range, which should help.

I have a dumb question--did this car run in a particular direction? What I mean is, did it have to be marshaled a particular way round--would the ducket have been always at the back, or did it not matter?
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: Snowwolflair on March 28, 2018, 01:55:33 PM
I have their drawing but its very poor on detail.  I think I will be going to York soon to do my own drawing.
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: Cutter on March 28, 2018, 07:38:32 PM
I am now told that this car was always marshaled immediately behind the locomotive, with the rounded end of the bay in the middle facing towards the front and the flat end of the bay to the rear. The duckets were evidently added shortly before Mallard's 1938 run, and would thus have been at the leading end of the vehicle, with the white dynamometer wheel in front of the bay. This is the way the car is displayed at the NRM behind Mallard in the photos I have found online.
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: Snowwolflair on June 09, 2018, 12:54:51 AM
I took 95 shots of her last weekend at the NRM York and when I get time to sort them out I will post some of the more significant ones.

This shot however is invaluable.


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/66/3761-090618005413.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=66223)
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: Snowwolflair on April 28, 2020, 10:38:47 AM
Some progress.

Having watched with interest @Stevie DC (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=213) thread on coaches and how to paint LNER wood I thought I would dig this project out as a fill in while other models are drying, and to try some of his techniques.

The body available from Shapeways, noted earlier in the thread, is a nice starting point, however the large windows and the nature of the coach type means that some representation of the internal seating benches and instruments is really necessary.  The detail does not have to be much more than a suggestion and is an ideal project to run off on my 3D printer.  In addition to the interior the printed module has the bogie mounts on the underside.  I will add the under frame in etch parts (from my scrap box).

Now I have this printed I need to clean up the prints and undercoat.


(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/91/3761-280420103450.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=91875)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/91/3761-280420103516.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=91876)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/91/3761-280420103547.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=91877)
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: Cutter on April 28, 2020, 11:02:18 AM
I have built a similar interior for my print using styrene sheet and scraps. Note that the dynamometer wheel was not white in 1938 but dark (black or brown plus grime?). Also, the car was lined in 1938. I've represented that by scraping through my paint lightly with a fine scribe to expose the white print material and then applying a wash of yellow to the entire vehicle. All I want is a very subtle effect. I've not yet been able to figure out how to do the "dynamometer car" lettering--which is inaccurate on the preserved car in York. The spacing and location of the characters was subtly different in 1938. Finally, I've represented the safety bar on the bay windows by scribing a line on the inside of my glazing material.
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: Snowwolflair on April 28, 2020, 11:22:13 AM
I can print transfers and I have been playing around with generating the lettering.
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: Snowwolflair on April 30, 2020, 01:04:02 PM
Basic undercoating ready for the teak effect (I hope).  It will need weight and I will incorporate this into the under frame when I build it.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/92/3761-300420130119.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=92028)
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: Snowwolflair on May 01, 2020, 10:12:11 AM
So far so good.  Next stage will be to darken and age the wood once the oil paints are dry.


(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/92/3761-010520101057.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=92183)
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: Shiney Sheff on May 01, 2020, 12:44:14 PM
No disrespects, but why have you done the roof too ?
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: Snowwolflair on May 01, 2020, 12:50:43 PM
Quote from: Shiney Sheff on May 01, 2020, 12:44:14 PM
No disrespects, but why have you done the roof too ?

To do the clerestory window frames there is inevitable spillover, given the brushing technique to create the wood effect. 

Its been cleared with turps but the oil paint still stains the undercoat.  It wont make any difference when the roof is masked and painted.

Bit like painting the entire nose of a blue diesel yellow and then masking before painting the blue.
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: Shiney Sheff on May 01, 2020, 05:11:08 PM
Thanks for the explanation, I fully understand now,  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: Cutter on May 01, 2020, 06:14:00 PM
Is the clerestory grained? I thought it was painted brown like the solebars, or is that from the last restoration?
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: Snowwolflair on May 01, 2020, 07:29:59 PM
Quote from: Cutter on May 01, 2020, 06:14:00 PM
Is the clerestory grained? I thought it was painted brown like the solebars, or is that from the last restoration?

I was told that that was from the restoration due to rot of the original structure.  I had a long conversation with one of the restoration team at York who knew the history.  There are a few errors including the lettering mentioned above.

There are few photos this is about the best. All the woodwork was varnished not painted when built but as they had to repair the roof which leaked, and certainly at restoration to cover the patched wood they painted it.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/92/3761-010520193641.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=92212)
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: Cutter on May 01, 2020, 08:44:04 PM
Good to know, thanks
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: kirky on May 03, 2020, 09:26:02 AM
Quote from: Snowwolflair on May 01, 2020, 07:29:59 PM
Quote from: Cutter on May 01, 2020, 06:14:00 PM
Is the clerestory grained? I thought it was painted brown like the solebars, or is that from the last restoration?

I was told that that was from the restoration due to rot of the original structure.  I had a long conversation with one of the restoration team at York who knew the history.  There are a few errors including the lettering mentioned above.

There are few photos this is about the best. All the woodwork was varnished not painted when built but as they had to repair the roof which leaked, and certainly at restoration to cover the patched wood they painted it.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/92/3761-010520193641.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=92212)

Whats not to love about information like that?
Thanks David
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: Snowwolflair on May 03, 2020, 09:37:09 AM
Quote from: kirky on May 03, 2020, 09:26:02 AM
Quote from: Snowwolflair on May 01, 2020, 07:29:59 PM
Quote from: Cutter on May 01, 2020, 06:14:00 PM
Is the clerestory grained? I thought it was painted brown like the solebars, or is that from the last restoration?

I was told that that was from the restoration due to rot of the original structure.  I had a long conversation with one of the restoration team at York who knew the history.  There are a few errors including the lettering mentioned above.

There are few photos this is about the best. All the woodwork was varnished not painted when built but as they had to repair the roof which leaked, and certainly at restoration to cover the patched wood they painted it.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/92/3761-010520193641.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=92212)

Whats not to love about information like that?
Thanks David

Sometimes you just meet the best person to talk to.  I took about 50 photos of her in the museum and it was obviously noticed and the chap just came over to me curious why I wanted the photos.  My favourite comment he made was "sometimes we just don't know so we wing it", just like the rest of us  :D
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: Paddy on May 03, 2020, 09:59:04 AM
Fantastic project @Snowwolflair (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3761).

As added info,  I have just finished reading British Railway Wagons (the first half million) by Don Rowland.  On page 114 in the Service Vehicles chapter there is a photo of the Dynamometer Car that BR built.

The coach was built at Doncaster in 1951 (apparently ordered in 1938) and numbered DE320041 (later renumbered DB999500) to Diagram 1/649. The book states that it "is very much an LNER mainline coach suitably modified".  The livery seems to be Crimson & Cream with black ends.

Kind regards

Paddy


Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: Snowwolflair on May 03, 2020, 10:27:28 AM
Quote from: Paddy on May 03, 2020, 09:59:04 AM
Fantastic project @Snowwolflair (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3761).

As added info,  I have just finished reading British Railway Wagons (the first half million) by Don Rowland.  On page 114 in the Service Vehicles chapter there is a photo of the Dynamometer Car that BR built.

The coach was built at Doncaster in 1951 (apparently ordered in 1938) and numbered DE320041 (later renumbered DB999500) to Diagram 1/649. The book states that it "is very much an LNER mainline coach suitably modified".  The livery seems to be Crimson & Cream with black ends.

Kind regards

Paddy

That must be a different wagon

Here is a 1927 film of this wagon.

Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: PLD on May 03, 2020, 12:40:20 PM
Quote from: Paddy on May 03, 2020, 09:59:04 AM
The coach was built at Doncaster in 1951 (apparently ordered in 1938) and numbered DE320041 (later renumbered DB999500) to Diagram 1/649. The book states that it "is very much an LNER mainline coach suitably modified".  The livery seems to be Crimson & Cream with black ends.
That was the (intended but somewhat delayed) replacement for the vehicle Snowwolflair is building...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/35278448545/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/35278448545/)
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: Paddy on May 03, 2020, 01:32:32 PM
Yes, sorry.  Did not mean to confuse.  ;)

There were actually far more of these coaches/cars than I realised.

Looking forward to seeing the end result.

Kind regards

Paddy
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer
Post by: Snowwolflair on May 07, 2020, 10:38:18 AM
Steady progress on the block painting.


(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/92/3761-070520103737.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=92819)
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: Paddy on May 07, 2020, 12:13:26 PM
That is looking awesome.

Kind regards

Paddy
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: Snowwolflair on May 07, 2020, 12:16:25 PM
I followed @Stevie DC (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=213) wood effect painting technique and I have to say it works very well.
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: Snowwolflair on May 13, 2020, 11:05:51 AM
A bit of progress ready for the transfers which I have just made. Lets hope I can get them on without them dissolving as the carrier paper I use is very fine and the transfers are long and thin.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/93/3761-130520110135.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=93221)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/93/3761-130520110401.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=93222)
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: Skyline2uk on May 13, 2020, 11:17:12 AM
Wonderful, simply wonderful.

Skyline2uk
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: Cutter on May 13, 2020, 11:54:50 AM
The transfers look great, and this project is coming along very nicely.
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: Snowwolflair on May 14, 2020, 03:35:50 PM
All it needs now is a coat of varnish and to glaze the windows.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/93/3761-140520153450.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=93319)
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: Snowwolflair on May 15, 2020, 11:32:03 AM
All done and ready to run.


(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/93/3761-150520112714.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=93371)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/93/3761-150520112745.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=93372)
Title: Re: NER Dynamometer help wanted
Post by: Jollybob on May 15, 2020, 11:44:14 AM
Excellent work. I'm not even modelling the LNER and I'm jealous.  :claphappy: