I have a Graham Hughes J50 unbuilt kit that I found in the bottom of one of my modelling boxes. I bought this years ago. It looks like everything is in the box, instructions etc. I bought it years ago when I thought I might want to have a go at kit building. Well, probably 20 years later it remains unbuilt and I largely model modern image these days. However I might get round to building it for one of our club models.
So can any one offer advice on the difficulty of obtaining a suitable chassis, either in kit form or pre built?
Can anyone offer suggestions on the suitability of how difficult it is to go together, what to watch out for etc.
Anyone care to offer any pictures of one theyve built?
Cheers
Kirky
I believe you can use the old Garish 57xxx chassis.
Dr All is the person who would know for certain, I think he's built one.
:beers:
Quote from: austinbob on December 10, 2017, 09:46:42 AM
I believe you can use the old Garish 57xxx chassis.
Dr All is the person who would know for certain, I think he's built one.
:beers:
Thanks Bob. I should have said I need to convert it to dcc too. I have used used the old digihats in the past but if a can motor will fit, I would prefer that for ease.
Cheers
Kirky
Hi,
I built (more accurately rebuilt) one of these a good few years back. It's mounted on a Bach-far 57xx pannier chassis, which is unaltered apart from a long shank front coupler.
There's plenty of space to DCC, so I'd stick with digihats, as the 57xx chassis generally run very very nicely.
(http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/gallery/album_400/gallery_7627_400_30777.jpg)
Cheers,
Alan
Hi @Dr Al (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=263)
Is it easy enough for a beginner in loco kit building? There doesnt appear to be too many parts.
Is your DCC?
Cheers
Kirky
Quote from: kirky on December 12, 2017, 03:46:40 PM
Hi @Dr Al (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=263)
Is it easy enough for a beginner in loco kit building? There doesnt appear to be too many parts.
Is your DCC?
Cheers
Kirky
It probably is reasonably easy - mine was a rebuild from someone's previous attempt, superdetailed as much as possible, so more difficult than a straight fresh build.
Having said that, Graham Hughes kits are*extremely* rare. So if you really want a J50, and a good one and you're concerned you still need to build up some skills then you might want to consider something else first, because you are unlikely to ever find another J50 on the secondhand market.
If so, then some of the kits by Langley are worth considering - there was another thread where basically a very similar question was asked, and my suggestion was a good starting model is actually Langley's Standard 4MT 4-6-0. These are still very simple and easy to construct despite being a larger loco, not available RTR so a useful addition to fleet, and ripe for superdetailing with separate handrails etc. They need a Farish black 5 chassis - pretty easy to come by old Farish black 5's - there are plenty about now that a new tool one is out, so you can pick them up for typically £40-50.
This is one I built back some years ago, and I actually have another on the bench just now. They have separate handrails and bufferbeam detail, but otherwise are fairly standard:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4539/38920627881_cff00dd2b9_b.jpg)
I also added an etched brass N-Brass locos front bogie with scale wheels - an easy solder build in brass from N-brass.
Easy to DCC also as there's loads of room at the front end of the boiler.
My J50 is not DCC but it would be easy to do so with all the side tank and bunker space available to locate a dinky sized chip such as one of the CT electronik range.
Cheers,
Alan
Hi @Dr Al (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=263)
Thanks for your very comprehensive answer. I was actually aware of thread you'd mentioned, and it was in reading that, that I'd remembered about my old Hughes kit.
Funnily enough I have a use for both the Standard 4MT and for the J50 albeit on different layouts. And furthermore I have a couple of old black fives, one of which could become a donor chassis.
So if the J50 is rare, is it worth selling?
Thanks
Kirky
Quote from: kirky on December 12, 2017, 05:33:43 PM
So if the J50 is rare, is it worth selling?
Thanks
Kirky
It may be - but if you have any potential use for a J50, I'd hold on to it, and build it, because as soon as you've sold it, you'll probably start kicking yourself if you decide you fancy a 'different' tank loco. It's something very unique to have.
Cheers,
Alan
Read with interest, I got up at 3 am to bid for one on E Bay, it arrived in BR Black so out with the paint and transfers, 7 days later a completely transformed ultra rare locomotive, its to late tonight but photos of this locomotives will follow,
Quote from: east anglian on December 15, 2019, 11:28:43 PM
Read with interest, I got up at 3 am to bid for one on E Bay, it arrived in BR Black so out with the paint and transfers, 7 days later a completely transformed ultra rare locomotive, its to late tonight but photos of this locomotives will follow,
Hi East Anglian, Is it too rude to ask how much you paid for it?
My kit is still unmade in its box.
Cheers
Kirky
Hi kirky,
I cannot tell you what I paid as If I were to sell it I would ask for offers over £250-00, it is a genuine Graham Hughes and it runs like a dream, Its a ultra rare kit and I would be asking for at least £120-00 without the chassis, I will try to send some photos through tonight
Photos of my j50
Quote from: east anglian on December 16, 2019, 06:49:46 PM
Photos of my j50
That is really very nice. It is certainly an unusual little loco. I'm wondering whether @Stevie DC (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=213) has one for his LNER layout?
Thanks for the range of pricing as that is a very useful guide to value.
Cheers
As GH kits are so hard to find I did spot a 3D one available through Shapeways: https://www.shapeways.com/product/9D2JKFVQY/j50-standard-bunker-2mm-scale?optionId=58736623&li=marketplace (https://www.shapeways.com/product/9D2JKFVQY/j50-standard-bunker-2mm-scale?optionId=58736623&li=marketplace)
https://www.shapeways.com/product/ZD886EVYF/j50-4-with-hopper-bunker-2mm?optionId=58577567&li=shops (https://www.shapeways.com/product/ZD886EVYF/j50-4-with-hopper-bunker-2mm?optionId=58577567&li=shops)
I have one of these too, I built mine over 25 years ago, it is plain BR black. It isn't a bad kit, but fitting the recommended 94xx Pannier chassis is tight and it sits too high so Dr Al's use of the later 57xx chassis makes a lot of sense.
I know Stevie DC does have one, naturally his own design and 3D print but I don't think it is one he ever made available commercially, his runs on a bespoke chassis which is I think part compensated and it runs like a swiss watch.
Roy
Shapeways do a 3d print which may look very good in a display cabinate but will lack the weight and whould not pull the skin off a rice pud, even their tender locos need a weighty tender drive,
Shapeways aren't a manufacturer. A printed body will always be lighter than a metal one, but that doesn't necessarily mean you can't make one perform well.
Quote from: east anglian on December 16, 2019, 08:50:58 PM
Shapeways do a 3d print which may look very good in a display cabinate but will lack the weight and whould not pull the skin off a rice pud, even their tender locos need a weighty tender drive,
I've a few 3D printed tank engines and there's always plenty of space to add weight. Easiest option is a thin sheet of lead on the inside of the tank sides, the smokebox is hollow so more room as is the bunker. They're no different to a RTR tank with a plastic body. They too have weight added.
No disrespect to Shapeways as they do produce some excellent 3D prints and I have made a few for friends but this is what I found that was the weak spot and yes in some cases weights could be added to improve traction,
Again, Shapeways are not a manufacturer, they just print other people's designs. In the same way eBay is not a shop.
A metal body will obviously weigh more than a plastic one, but adding weight is rarely impossible, and I'd say it's a bit disingenuous to suggest they'd only be good for sitting in a display cabinet.
There have been many comments about the tractive effort between 3 D printing and white metal kits and adding weights to improve traction, can any 3D Tank locomotive come close to my J50 on my test track, as the 1st photo shows it hauled a 300gm weight 4ft on a level track, unfortunately it slipped when it was raised to 4 inches but it did haul a 150 gram tin of sardines up the full 4 inches, I did at first try this on my layout but unfortunately it got stuck in a tunnel and it took me over 1 hour to free the load and locomotive.
2nd photo
But why would I ever want one of my tank locos to pull a can of beans? Mine pull prototypical length trains and that's good enough for me and I'd guess a lot of people will have shorter trains due to space constraints.
Sure, a lump of metal will always give more tractive effort (if the weight is in the right place) but to simply dismiss all 3D printed locos as display items is way off the mark. There are numerous RTR locos with plastic bodies that weigh less than a 3D printed one and also without a fair but of work white metal kits tend to lack the detail/finesse of plastic.
If I do ever find myself in the position of having to transport baked beans and only have N gauge locos to perform the task I'll be sure to go for a metal bodied one ;)
Unfortunatly my test track is only 6ft long so the weight of the can of beans is about equal to 15 coaches, this was only done to prove a point that 3D printing lacks weight and if there is no room to add weight then your stuck with a display cabinate locomotive
But that's not what you've proved. You've proved that your model can haul a tin of beans. That doesn't automatically mean that any 3D printed model is only for display. That's a ludicrous strawman.
If you have no room to add weight you have a large chassis, which is probably quite heavy. Ultimately 3D printed models are plastic. Virtually all mass produced models (not UM) are plastic. Are you saying the only locos you have are metal? Everything else is for display purposes only.
We'll have to agree to disagree then. I've numerous 3D printed locos and by their nature they are hollow so allow stacks of weight to be added. The can of beans doesn't prove any point as when would you need a J50 to pull 15 coaches and if for some reason you did the 3D J50 I posted a link to can have weight added to the inside of the tanks, the boiler and the bunker and depending what medium you use you could probably get it to weigh more than the white metal one.
Just wondering if you are basing your opinion on 3D printed locos to experience or hearsay?
Not really I have 3D diesel locomotives and they are great both in looks and performance, Im old school and find it hard to accept 3D and DCC however we in the small world of N Gauge must accept the change for better or worse and support these small companies that offer alternative models that the big boys don't produce
Small (indeed one man) 'companies' like Graham Hughes, who are producing the J50 you're waxing lyrical about...? Meanwhile the big companies, like Dapol and Farish are making locos out of plastic, which you're saying isn't good enough. Not sure I get your point.
Still, agree to disagree, I think it's amazing that we have the option of 3D printing to help deliver prototypes you're never going to see otherwise (or are only available in kits worth a small fortune due to their rarity!), and if you want to resign them to being good only for display purposes then more fool you. :thumbsup:
I have two 3D printed locos, both by Stevie DC which he kindly made and finished for me. I would challenge anyone to be able to distinguish these from the best of RTR except by dint of the fact that neither loco is available as such.
One is a beautiful V3 Tank loco, this runs on a Farish N Class chassis and having replaced the traction-tyred wheelset with a plain one, without any extra weight at all, it manages 11 coaches. It isn't just about absolute weight, it is about distribution of the weight and the balance of the chassis.
In my opinion 3D printed models are a totally credible alternative to whitemetal, brass and other media. It's horses for courses as with all things.
Roy
Quote from: east anglian on December 17, 2019, 05:32:55 PM
Not really I have 3D diesel locomotives and they are great both in looks and performance, Im old school and find it hard to accept 3D and DCC however we in the small world of N Gauge must accept the change for better or worse and support these small companies that offer alternative models that the big boys don't produce
So if I'm reading you right you have decided all 3D printed locos are only fit for display solely based on you finding it hard to accept new technology despite happily using 3D prints for diesels which are fine. I'm baffled.
Quote from: thebrighton on December 17, 2019, 04:29:01 PM
when would you need a J50 to pull 15 coaches
Since I own a 3D J50, I decided to put it to the test.
The model is based on a modified Graham Farish pannier tank chassis, newer tooling with low profile blackened wheels..
I haven't yet added additional weight to the model as I'm waiting for a delivery of weights.
Coaches were a mix of mk1s, Gresleys and a couple of Staniers.
Layout is a flat oval with second radius curves.
I have a relatively small layout so the front and end of the train were almost touching!
With a very delicate start off, mine can pull the 15 coaches.
It did need to be very controlled though or the wheels started slipping.
I tried it out taking off a few coaches, and I would say the comfortable limit would be 12.
I don't have a white metal one to compare against though.
It would appear from your comment that 3D models can match the tractive effort of a white metal model I still prefer the white metal kits but if a model comes up in 3D that is to my likening I will certainly give it a go, does anyone produce the LMS FURY as that's my next project
Quote from: east anglian on December 19, 2019, 09:48:37 AM
LMS FURY as that's my next project
Do post progress on this one - interesting prototype!
Cheers,
Alan
Hi Alan,
Thanks for your comments I certainly will do that, I have just received a photo from a fellow modeller that he has built and it comes pretty close to FURY, Its an LMS Locomotive with the name of COLOSSUS and he has done a fantastic job on it,