Another disaster in London, my thoughts are going out to all those families and their loved ones.
Just been watching it on telly!!! Horrendous.
Certainly a very sad and tragic event. It will be interesting to see how this fire engulfed the block so quickly. I once attended a fire in a flat in a 14 storey block. The fire brigade said that it was usually easy to contain this sort of fire as the flats were, in effect, concrete buildings stacked together.
:heart: London
We're getting it here.
Awful.
Was it avoidable?
https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/2016/11/20/kctmo-playing-with-fire/amp/
Could see it clearly from Richmond Park cycling in this morning, quite the smoke cloud. Terrible for all involved.
Up the outside of the building but within any additional "Cosmetic" cladding :'(
Then back in wherever it wants too
Our worst nightmare in one of these :(
Just heard on the news that there were notices in the hallways telling residents to stay in their flats if there was a fire.
Trapped like rats in a cage!!!
Advice the fire brigade were repeating today. I guess there are fires and there are fires.
First notice on all national TV news...tremendous images
❤️London
Marco
Truly awful. So sad. Thought and prayers to all. Bill.
The question that needs an answer in my opinion is this.
Why spend 6.8 milion making the building look pretty instead of fitting sprinkler systems and emergency lighting in the corridors and stairway .surely safety should come first.
Val and myself send our thoughts to all those affected and R I P to those poor souls that didnt manage to get out .
Bob Tidbury
I'm so sorry to see this.
Lord have mercy.
For me the real heroes in this horrific disaster are the emergency services. Time and time again they went into a building that should never have burnt like it did and what they must have witnessed beggars description.
Quote from: newportnobby on June 15, 2017, 12:37:12 PM
For me the real heroes in this horrific disaster are the emergency services. Time and time again they went into a building that should never have burnt like it did and what they must have witnessed beggars description.
Hear, hear! And, they'll turn up for work again the next day ready to face the same or worse. Hearing an
off-duty nurse responding to the question "why did you run toward the burning tower?" reply "because that's my job" says so much of the character of these people. I'd say not only was it not her job, she wasn't on-duty! Don't think I could be so selfless.
We need a
salute emoji.
Having been invlved with the first firemans strike and been on the Fire teams on the RAF stations I served, (even though I was a radar technician) It becomes ingrained to you to run towards the fire.
I got told off by the Fire service when the alarms went off At a Unversity I was attending a course at, because I ran towards and not away from the fire.
Quote from: The Q on June 15, 2017, 01:28:05 PM
Having been invlved with the first firemans strike and been on the Fire teams on the RAF stations I served, (even though I was a radar technician) It becomes ingrained to you to run towards the fire.
I got told off by the Fire service when the alarms went off At a Unversity I was attending a course at, because I ran towards and not away from the fire.
I know what you mean Q. I did a stint on Green Goddesses in the early 80s strike. We had 2 Forces Firemen on each crew. They were the only ones allowed to enter a burning building though, the rest of us just manned pumps, rigged ladders, etc.
Now if a disaster occurred in front of me today, I'd like to think that I'd instinctively go to lend assistance. But, thankfully, I've never really been tested. Our Emergency Services are tested daily, and always pass with flying colours. They are a special breed.
I'm astounded that the experts seem to think aluminium is fireproof.
Quite the contrary, once it starts to burn there is no stopping it as the navy found out with HMS Sheffield during the Falklands.
Quote from: Snowwolflair on June 15, 2017, 06:13:43 PM
Quite the contrary, once it starts to burn there is no stopping it as the navy found out with HMS Sheffield during the Falklands.
I believe that this is an urban myth, and that, in common with all Type 42 destroyers,
Sheffield's hull and superstructure were steel.
One thing I've heard nothing about is the structural state of the block. On the news tonight the emergency services stated they can't even get into some of the flats without shoring them up and that it will take months to find all the victims, let alone identify them. I just hope no one is in any danger of it collapsing :worried:
Massive respect and support to the emergency services, and such sadness and support to all those involved.
How could this happen? And I hope the responsible people are help to account for this.
Deepest sympathy to all.
Quote from: Nick on June 15, 2017, 07:26:32 PM
Quote from: Snowwolflair on June 15, 2017, 06:13:43 PM
Quite the contrary, once it starts to burn there is no stopping it as the navy found out with HMS Sheffield during the Falklands.
I believe that this is an urban myth, and that, in common with all Type 42 destroyers, Sheffield's hull and superstructure were steel.
I had heard about the aluminium theory but the following, from 'Wikipeadia', seems to refute this -
"The sinking of Sheffield is sometimes blamed on a superstructure made wholly or partially from aluminium, the melting point and ignition temperature of which are significantly lower than those of steel. However, this is incorrect as Sheffield's superstructure was made entirely of steel. The confusion is related to the US and British Navies abandoning aluminium after several fires in the 1970s involving ships that had aluminium superstructures".
Quote from: dannyboy on June 15, 2017, 09:13:47 PM
Quote from: Nick on June 15, 2017, 07:26:32 PM
Quote from: Snowwolflair on June 15, 2017, 06:13:43 PM
Quite the contrary, once it starts to burn there is no stopping it as the navy found out with HMS Sheffield during the Falklands.
I believe that this is an urban myth, and that, in common with all Type 42 destroyers, Sheffield's hull and superstructure were steel.
I had heard about the aluminium theory but the following, from 'Wikipeadia', seems to refute this -
"The sinking of Sheffield is sometimes blamed on a superstructure made wholly or partially from aluminium, the melting point and ignition temperature of which are significantly lower than those of steel. However, this is incorrect as Sheffield's superstructure was made entirely of steel. The confusion is related to the US and British Navies abandoning aluminium after several fires in the 1970s involving ships that had aluminium superstructures".
It is not an urban myth. They were skinned with steel but the bulk of the in innerds was aluminium to reduce the topside weight. Also all of the gas turbine venting where she was hit was alloy.
Hopefully safety be examined now on all high rise buildings but you wonder why it has to take a tragic event like this to highlight short comings. My heart goes out to those involved residents , relatives and emergency services
We shouldn't lose sight of the thread title and spirit.
Quote from: javlinfaw7 on June 15, 2017, 09:57:17 PM
Hopefully safety be examined now on all high rise buildings but you wonder why it has to take a tragic event like this to highlight short comings. My heart goes out to those involved residents , relatives and emergency services
Something like this happened to an apartment building in Melbourne in 2014. Subsequently, combustible cladding was held largely responsible for the rapid spread of the fire up the side of the building. Although the damage was extensive, no one was hurt which explains why the priority to replace this stuff has been only moderate in Oz till now. I expect that this priority level will suddenly increase after this London disaster. It seems that cladding is in the spotlight at the moment for the London fire, but the coroner's report will tell us what really happened.
I too admire the bravery of the emergency services workers in these situations. The 9/11 World Trade Center collapses have told us how truly dangerous burning towers can be not just to their residents, but also to the firefighters attending.
Webbo
Seeing the photos of the Fire teams lying flaked out shows how knackering it is firefighting in Full Fireproof kit, Climbing up to 27 floors of stairs with full Breathing Apparatus in the heat and smoke must be incredibly worse.
The most I did was 8 floors, of a burning flour mill, we were allowed in buildings that were burning, providing we didn't need BA. (i.e. Small fires or reinforced stairwells with steel fire doors like the mill.)
We were all normal RAF servicemen in our Goddesses, the BA team was from the Royal Navy who had their own Landrover, and who went out with whichever Goddess needed them.
A very tragic event indeed.....These past couple of months have been cursed by fatalities of many innocent people!
Is there really a God?
It would appear that more money was spent making it look good than making it safe to live in, with the possibility of either the housing association or the contractor cutting corners on the quality of the materials used. I believe that they would have been better advised to have spent the money on a sprinkler system and upgrading the electrics.
once again lives have been lost to save money. my condolences to the families of those who have lost their lives unnecessarily.
Regards,
Alex
Aluminium is in the same group of metals as magnesium, and is actually more reactive. If you wash it with ammonium nitrate solution it removes the oxide layer and the aluminium spontaneously bursts into flame.
Whilst expressing my condolences to anyone who's lost someone.
I am beginging to wonder a what is being thrown at them now, they are all getting £5500, which if you lose your home to fire anywhere else, you do not get. There are various charities raising money for them and now a charity single has been released.
Except for those who have been injured and may need continuing care. A great many of those who have lost their homes are going to end up a lot better off than they were before, especially if they had home insurance.
Following up on that you can guarrentee the ambulance chasing lawyers are circling, making all sorts of offers to sue the council / builders / anyone else. Which will make lots more money for the lawyers than those affected
No amount of money is going to help heal the psychological injuries suffered, but might help pay for treatment or subsidise diminished incomes due to time off work. No amount of money is going to help rebuild an entire community that has been torn apart. I think that only those that have survived through this devastating tragedy can know how deep and wide and real the pain is. The survivors have lost much, much more than a home.
Quote from: The Q on June 21, 2017, 10:18:26 AM
Whilst expressing my condolences to anyone who's lost someone.
I am beginging to wonder a what is being thrown at them now, they are all getting £5500, which if you lose your home to fire anywhere else, you do not get. There are various charities raising money for them and now a charity single has been released.
Except for those who have been injured and may need continuing care. A great many of those who have lost their homes are going to end up a lot better off than they were before, especially if they had home insurance.
Following up on that you can guarrentee the ambulance chasing lawyers are circling, making all sorts of offers to sue the council / builders / anyone else. Which will make lots more money for the lawyers than those affected
Its the ambulance chasing politicians that get my goat.
My view on compensation is good luck to them they deserve something extra after what they have gone through.
[mod]Expressions of sorrow following such a disaster are one thing but I don't believe discussions of what help is being offered, what councils are/aren't doing and what insurance companies will do are anything to do with the forum[/mod]
I had a notification about this thread which i started about the London Fire although i have had orders off my doctor to stay off the forum for a short while i have had to come and make this comment because it was upsetting me to see that those comments were being made and i agree with @newportnobby (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264) this thread was started for condolences and not for any political agenda or comments on what they are receiving now.
The loss of life is upsetting for all concerned no matter who they are, unless of cause they had caused the loss of life themselves, but that is for another thread and not this one please.
Yep ,I agree with the above, give messages of condolence but dont start
mudslinging until the facts are known .