N Gauge Forum

Notices, Help With Problems and Your Forum Ideas... => Forum Ideas and Problems. => Topic started by: oscar on May 10, 2017, 09:58:46 AM

Title: N gauge loco's and rolling stock reviews
Post by: oscar on May 10, 2017, 09:58:46 AM
Can someone please remove the apostrophe from the above subject? :confusedsign:
Title: Re: N gauge loco's and rolling stock reviews
Post by: Tank on May 10, 2017, 10:45:09 AM
Finally, someone has realised.  Your prize is in the post....!  ;)  :D
Title: Re: N gauge loco's and rolling stock reviews
Post by: austinbob on May 10, 2017, 10:48:01 AM
Quote from: Tank on May 10, 2017, 10:45:09 AM
Finally, someone has realised.  Your prize is in the post....!  ;)  :D
That prize wouldn't be an apostrophe by any chance?
;) :beers:
Title: Re: N gauge loco's and rolling stock reviews
Post by: Tank on May 10, 2017, 10:49:47 AM
 ;D  Just finished printing it out....!
Title: Re: N gauge loco's and rolling stock reviews
Post by: BlythPower on May 10, 2017, 12:05:58 PM
Oscar, you're not from Bristol are you?  ;)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-39459831/meet-the-grammar-vigilante-of-bristol (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-39459831/meet-the-grammar-vigilante-of-bristol)
Title: Re: N gauge loco's and rolling stock reviews
Post by: PennineWagons on May 10, 2017, 12:13:53 PM
An apostrophe can be used to denote possession or abbreviation.
Loco's is an abbreviation of locomotives.
The apostrophe is, therefore, actually correct.
Yours pedantically,
PW
Title: Re: N gauge loco's and rolling stock reviews
Post by: silly moo on May 10, 2017, 12:23:41 PM
The abbreviation apostrophe doesn't seem to be in common use anymore, another example is  photos for photographs, I was taught it was photo's but then I'm just an old fart  :P
Title: Re: N gauge loco's and rolling stock reviews
Post by: NeMo on May 10, 2017, 01:30:36 PM
Quote from: PennineWagons on May 10, 2017, 12:13:53 PM
An apostrophe can be used to denote possession or abbreviation.
Loco's is an abbreviation of locomotives.
The apostrophe is, therefore, actually correct.

Not in this case it isn't.

In this case, the apostrophe is being used before the "s", indicating the word itself is a plural. Either the pluralised word is "loco", in which case "locos" is correct, or else you're abbreviating "locomotives" in which case doing so in a way that confuses the word with its possessive is unhelpful. Compare "the locomotive's number is 4468" with "the loco's number is 4468". It's quite obvious that the apostrophe is there to show the 4468 belongs to that locomotives.

Using an apostrophe to denote an abbreviation (such as ha'penny for halfpenny) is fine, provided the abbreviation doesn't get confused with something else. Given that doing this is somewhat archaic nowadays, I think that it's clearer not to write this way unless where dialect or tradition demand otherwise.

Regardless, in this situation it's clearly a "greengrocer's apostrophe" for locos and should be written without an apostrophe.

Cheers, NeMo
Title: Re: N gauge loco's and rolling stock reviews
Post by: Yet_Another on May 10, 2017, 02:39:53 PM
Also, according to the OED, the word 'loco' is actually a word in its own right, and its origin is a 19th century abbreviation. So no need to get tangled up in obscure rules.  ;)
Title: Re: N gauge loco's and rolling stock reviews
Post by: dannyboy on May 11, 2017, 06:38:59 PM
Quote from: silly moo on May 10, 2017, 12:23:41 PM
The abbreviation apostrophe doesn't seem to be in common use anymore, another example is  photos for photographs, I was taught it was photo's

So was I

but then I'm just an old fart  :P

So am I  ;)
Title: Re: N gauge loco's and rolling stock reviews
Post by: Webbo on May 12, 2017, 04:23:57 AM
I'm an old fart too, but can't remember ever have being taught the use of an apostrophe to denote abbreviation (could be a problem with memory). Using the apostrophe to denote contraction or possession - yes, of course. Seems to me that ha'penny really uses the apostrophe to denote contraction between half and penny.

The usage that confused me for a long time was the difference between "it's" (contraction of "it is") and "its" which is the possessive of "it".  English is truly a wonderful language.

Webbo
Title: Re: N gauge loco's and rolling stock reviews
Post by: njee20 on May 12, 2017, 07:05:54 AM
Technically they're not used for abbreviation, they're used for contraction (which is subtly different), often used on road markings. I think that's what NeMo's saying anyway.

Either way, as said "loco" is a word in its own right (no apostrophe needed in the possessive "its" either, only in the contraction of "it is") and thus no apostrophe is needed in the plural, even though it has origins as part of a longer work.

Same as photo, or phone. Photo's is just wrong these days, although I accept when it was new technology and the word wasn't in common parlance it was probably different, I'm not old, so don't remember that ;) . You don't talk about having a smart 'phone either.

While we're at it, something that belongs to James isn't James', it's James's, the former would be if it belonged to multiple people called Jame. Annoys me that one.
Title: Re: N gauge loco's and rolling stock reviews
Post by: silly moo on May 12, 2017, 07:17:01 AM
It's all a bit of a punctuation minefield these days. The ones that really irritate me are when there, their and they're are used wrongly and when your and you're are used wrongly too. I used to think my punctuation wasn't too bad but now I edit a club newsletter, I get my friend who is a real 'Grammar Nazi' to have a final look at it before it goes out.
Title: Re: N gauge loco's and rolling stock reviews
Post by: njee20 on May 12, 2017, 07:32:21 AM
"Should of" too.

Photos is a great example of how things evolve, I can't comprehend that being correct, but things change. I hope I never see the day they standardise"there" and "your", mind!

And remember...

(https://res.cloudinary.com/teepublic/image/private/s--rFfgzCyZ--/t_Preview/b_rgb:36538b,c_limit,f_jpg,h_630,q_90,w_630/v1471477698/production/designs/637936_1.jpg)
Title: Re: N gauge loco's and rolling stock reviews
Post by: broadsword on May 12, 2017, 08:43:11 AM
I couldn't give a monkeys or is it monkey's................... :confused2:
Title: Re: N gauge loco's and rolling stock reviews
Post by: njee20 on May 12, 2017, 09:03:37 AM
Well that depends, what about the monkey couldn't you give? ;)

You couldn't give a monkey's tail, because, well, it's the monkey's! Nor could you give monkeys' tails, because they belong to all the monkeys.

So, technically, given the full phrase it is "monkey's", ironically.
Title: Re: N gauge loco's and rolling stock reviews
Post by: broadsword on May 12, 2017, 09:39:15 AM
It gets complicated like Harrods should be called Harrod's
(assuming it was founded by Mr Harrod ).  Of course
people might say I'm talking a load of cobblers, but
as it's rhyming slang it should be  cobblers' , plural
and possessive.
Title: Re: N gauge loco's and rolling stock reviews
Post by: njee20 on May 12, 2017, 09:44:34 AM
Well it was originally Harrod & Co, then his son got involved, so it became Harrods. Interesting though, it's Sainsbury's after all.
Title: Re: N gauge loco's and rolling stock reviews
Post by: Yet_Another on May 12, 2017, 11:09:34 AM
I found 'Eats Shoots and Leaves' by Lynne Truss to be a good read on this subject. Just looking around now, I found a book with an interesting title, which would be moderated if written here: for those interested, the ISBN is 1849537577.
Title: Re: N gauge loco's and rolling stock reviews
Post by: PennineWagons on May 12, 2017, 12:59:57 PM
Oh what a can of worm's.
'PW'
Title: Re: N gauge loco's and rolling stock reviews
Post by: silly moo on May 13, 2017, 07:58:48 AM
We should probably change the title of this topic, I keep getting caught out and expect actual reviews of rolling stock  ;D
Title: Re: N gauge loco's and rolling stock reviews
Post by: GroupC on May 13, 2017, 09:19:56 AM
Never mind locos and loco's, what about locoes or even loci?

Potato, potatoe etc...

Thanks to Dan Quayle.
Title: Re: N gauge loco's and rolling stock reviews
Post by: port perran on May 13, 2017, 09:54:41 AM
A local taxi firm here advertises on the side of their cars -
Local Taxi's
Advanced Bookings Only

What is local to those taxis and do I need to take an advanced course in order to book one?