An email announcement I received from Dave Jones:-
I've decided to go ahead with this, to gauge serious intent from the N gauge community. Therefore I'm going live today and the sign-ups will have until Sunday 17th June 2017 to register an interest.
The 5 models chosen will be totally exclusive to crowdfunders and not be repeated again.
Models will be certificated and have the following specifications.
The model will use the OO cad/cam inherited from Hattons shrunk down to N gauge.
Specifications
Coreless motor
Next 18 DCC decoder socket
Sound speaker fitment space in tender
Removable tender coal load
traction tyres on rear axle but with non traction tyres replacement axle set in box
2 types of bogies for customer choice for track clearance
etched name and number plates
polished steel effect con rods
darkened RP72.110 wheel sets
close coupling (if possible) on tender rear.
12 wheel pick up (tender and loco)
etched fire irons
separate hand lamps within accessory bag
Loco drive onto rear axle from motor
Maximum weight possible within technical boundaries
How much?
Crowdfunding cost per locomotive £135.50 (no limit to the amount of Kings the crowdfunder can purchase.
RRP for loco when on sale in other guises £159.95
Payments for each model will be in stages if crowdfunding meets the amount needed to make project viable. Only then will deposit invoices be sent out.....
Initial deposit £30.00 (this is non refundable)
Then 1st EP tooling deposit £50.00 (non refundable)
Lastly the remaining total plus £8.00 shipping = £63.50 (non refundable)
Please note the funds are non refundable due to the nature of the crowdfunding and the tooling needing £100,000.00 So please only put your name down if you are serious about owning what will be a fantastic model.
Timelines
From the end of June, providing crowdfunding reaches its required level, final design will start, taking approximately 4 weeks using the OO gauge cad/cams as the starting point. Once completed tooling to 1st EP standard should take 6-8 weeks. 1 month for review and comments, then the 2nd ep (production standard) tooling should take the same 6-8 weeks.
Decorated models will be produced using the 1st EP models to keep the wait to a minimum.
Production will be 4 weeks
Shipping 4 - 6 weeks including land transport to distributor, then 48 hours to ship to UK customers.
All phases of the project will be covered by tooling / production photographs and reports when there is news to be shared, and the ship name will be notified to allow us all to follow the consignment progress across the world.
Please visit www.djmodels.co.uk (http://www.djmodels.co.uk) and the sub page 'pre orders and other' to sign up for a King!
Thank you for your time
Dave Jones
DJModels Ltd
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/2-130317152407.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=49522)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/49/2-130317152432.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=49523)
I hope Dave won't mind if I add a direct link to the ordering page.
http://djmodels.co.uk/?page_id=47 (http://djmodels.co.uk/?page_id=47)
Also, for ease of browsing, here is the list of identities on offer.
DJM-LS-N-001A 6006 King George I GWR Lined green with GWR 'Shirtbutton' logo on the tender
DJM-LS-N-002A 6018 King Henry VI GWR Lined green with "G (crest) W" on the tender
DJM-LS-N-003A 6023 King Edward II BR Lined blue with early BR crest
DJM-LS-N-004A 6009 King Charles II BR Lined green with early BR crest
DJM-LS-N-005A 6017 King Edward IV BR Lined green with Late BR crest
Even though it's GWR a King is just too big for me.
Now if it was the long awaited Mogul..........................................
Quote from: GrahamB on March 13, 2017, 04:50:57 PM
Even though it's GWR a King is just too big for me.
Now if it was the long awaited Mogul..........................................
My sentiments exactly.
A King is far too big for me I'm afraid.
I'd rather have a couple of Claytons.....
Pete @ EGLM
Come to Perth in June Pete and see the class 17 models, hopefully painted, in the flesh.
Might also have another, or 2, N gauge goodies for you too see as well. ;)
Interest registered. A King is not my first WR choice either, but getting it funded will likely increase the chances of a Mogul.
Yeah, I know I'm a mod, and probably shouldn't enter into this, but I wonder where the other stuff is first?
Quote from: Bealman on March 14, 2017, 08:48:04 AM
Yeah, I know I'm a mod, and probably shouldn't enter into this, but I wonder where the other stuff is first?
As I understand it, Hattons decided to cancel their OO gauge King after Hornby saturated the market. This left Dave with a detailed CAD and a possible production slot.
He mentioned on the Class 71 project that crowd funded models were separate from the rest of his projects so progress on the already-announced models would not be affected. Possibly the same applies here.
Incidentally, the Class 71 is now in production. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/88264-oo-gauge-class-71-electric-locomotive/?p=2644240 (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/88264-oo-gauge-class-71-electric-locomotive/?p=2644240)
Now a 71 in 'N' would be something I'd invest in..... :hmmm:
I'd also be interested in a 71 for another project I'm working on.
Being honest neither loco's would suit me,
Like Bealman and Only me, I am waiting to get an actual loco in my hand (I have ordered the J94 and the class 23 ) before I commit any further.
This is right up my street for the layout I'd like to build one day based on the GWR Leamington to Birmingham line.
In a perfect world I'd have four of the five announced locos, but one or two will have to suffice. I've got a soft spot for blue with early crest so it might have to be that one and maybe the British Railways late crest as well.
Yes, it would be nice if there were some progress on the GWR mogul announced a few years ago (from my point of view that's the main DJM release I'd like to see). And I sympathise with those waiting for Claytons, Baybe Deltics and others.
Would like 6023 'King Edward II'. But along with others, I would also like a Clayton, and a Shark.
Quote from: Tank on March 13, 2017, 03:16:54 PM
.. Timelines
From the end of June, providing crowdfunding reaches its required level, final design will start, ...
So I'll wait till mid-June and see if there is any progress on other products before deciding whether to commit to this.
Like others, I'd be interested in this in principle, but...
We're three and a half years down the road since DJM models was launched, and a wheel is yet to turn on N gauge metal as far as I know. Not so much as a wagon. And only one, (or is it two?), models in another gauge, of which I've heard mixed reports and have no way to judge their truth.
"Vapourware" was once a term in another industry, in another century, that is beginning to seem relevant.
I just don't feel like putting money down on what is inevitably going to be a complex model before seeing at least something from the same stable in the same scale, in production.
Quote from: DJM Dave on March 13, 2017, 10:36:01 PM
Come to Perth in June Pete and see the class 17 models, hopefully painted, in the flesh.
Might also have another, or 2, N gauge goodies for you too see as well. ;)
Well, looks like there IS light at the end of the tunnel ? And it IS an approaching train ! (OK.....OK, I know the Clayton's didn't have headlights !)
Yay, looking forward to getting a Clayton or two.
Cheers, Mike
I understand a bit of reluctance/scepticism. But Dave does have track record not just as DJM but from his previous role at Dapol. As they say on Dragon's Den, I'm in.
Quote from: Nick on March 14, 2017, 03:33:56 PM
Like others, I'd be interested in this in principle, but...
We're three and a half years down the road since DJM models was launched, and a wheel is yet to turn on N gauge metal as far as I know. Not so much as a wagon. And only one, (or is it two?), models in another gauge, of which I've heard mixed reports and have no way to judge their truth.
"Vapourware" was once a term in another industry, in another century, that is beginning to seem relevant.
I just don't feel like putting money down on what is inevitably going to be a complex model before seeing at least something from the same stable in the same scale, in production.
Hi,
I think I should clarify any things for you.
Whilst I would normally agree wth your comment, it forgets my provenance and history.
I was , in a previous life, brought into my previous company as the product development manager by George Smith, who gave me pretty much free reign.
I chose what models we produced, liveries etc.
I advised on the 66 before I joined them and the Voyager in the 6 months up to release. They were both my ideas, and mostly my designs.
Moving forward, I designed the Q1, 67, Hymek, 9f, B1, B17, A3, A4, 56, 58, 52, 22, 33, 26, 27, Britannia, 86, 121 + 122 bubble cars, Terrier, Pannier, HST, DVT, manor, Hall, 28xx plus the OO gauge sentinel, 10000, 22, 52, Beattie. Plus a few wagons Of which quite a few contributed the the 16+ model of the year awards won in my time there.
I introduced 6 pin DCC, light bars, close coupling mechanisms, magnetic couplers and yes 'working' semaphore signals into the N gauge market.
Now, moving forward, as a stand alone company I have redesigned the Beattie, designed the O2, 14xx, J94, D600, king, PBA wagon, and forthcoming gate stock in OO gauge.
I've designed the 17 in N gauge and the mermaid wagon. The mermaid wagon was shown as a small rake at the N gauge show and Warley last year, and is currently in production. The class 17 is in the tool room and will be unveiled at Perth show in late June.
So, apart from blowing my own trumpet here, I guess I'm trying to convey that I have a track record. I've made mistakes, but who hasn't? But generally the models I have designed are still being made and still being sold. That must convince even the most sceptical that I can do it. If not, I'm doing it wrong.
Now before anyone pipes in( and there are a few on here that will, I know) and say "well it's been xxx years and still we haven't seen anything' I would say......your right, but equally I'd say, 'my business plan is well known, I haven't hid, I've broadcasted what I'm going to produce and in what order, and I've said why'
I'll recap here though.
When I started this, I decided the OO gauge J94 would be the bread and butter to my plans. A loco that would sell, and make a profit and keep monies coming in to re-invest.
However I made the mistake, or possibly the wise decision, to double the tooling costs, to allow me to get maximum use of the too,big and produce alternate variants of the model.
So I took 46k and doubled it on an e-mail to China.
That 92k came from my house sale! Yes really. How many of you would have that conviction?
Anyway, that's now come to fruition and the J94 is making a meager existence and it has helped the class 17 and the mermaid reach the tool room / production.
I say meager, because with the vote last year, and the exchange rates going through the floor, where I was once dealing with 1uk£ to the 11.5 hk$ , and 1uk£ to the 1.5 us $ I'm now dealing with the hk$ @ 9.67 and us @1.14 and its hurt more than a bit. I've kept prices down to be honourable too.
However I'm still here, the plans are still sound, it's just going to take time.
However if my using a coreless motor and better electronics in my models and my history won't persuade you then I can only apologies.
Dave
DJModels Ltd
Hopefully that rather impressive CV will dispel any doubts!
That's good news about the Mermaids Dave.
Dave,
There are few that would doubt your CV, however many will question the likely hood of a GWR King turning up given that there's been little visible progress on the models announced by yourself in September 2013 (i.e. 3 and a half years ago).
I appreciate that it's been a case of the OO gauge J94 funding the N gauge projects but that model has been and gone but we've seen little progress on the N Gauge models announced years ago. At the same time you've announced a class 92 and now a King. It feels to some of my modelling friends as though you're just land-grabbing with no news. Put some CAD images of the class 17 on your website along with some images of the pre-production Mermaids (we don't all go to TINGS or Warley!) and the neigh-says will be quiet for a week or two!
Happy modelling.
Steven B.
Hi Steven,
As the good captain said in "dads Army" 'pay attention at the back' ;-)
Those pictures have been on my web site and RMWeb for Yonks
The pre prod mermaid in Dutch was in BRM at least, that I know of, and the class 17 cad cams have been up since day 1.
I'm truly shocked if it is the case, that people haven't seen them, as the 17 cad also appeared in ALL the magazines too.
The info is out there, but I guess I need to do better on that count.
As for the crowdfunded 92 and king, these are different beasties altogether and I have again said time and again they have no bearing or influence on the core business. They don't rely on myself to find the money to produce,and will only get produced if enough modellers want them.
For the 92, I'm glad to say that enough do.
For the King, it's very encouraging.
However, and I cannot say this often enough, if the money or the business was there I could quadruple my work flow and still have a margin to spare. This is why I am always looking for more business, helping others get established, giving ideas out to third parties to take forward if they can etc.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Dave
Quote from: DJM Dave on March 14, 2017, 04:28:41 PM
Hi,
I think I should clarify any things for you.
Whilst I would normally agree wth your comment, it forgets my provenance and history.
I was , in a previous life, brought into my previous company as the product development manager by George Smith, who gave me pretty much free reign.[snip]
Hi Dave,
I knew your background, although not in as much detail as you just went into - and I was conscious that what I was posting was likely to upset you.
You explained the outline of your business plan to me, and the part the J94 played in it, at RMWeb Live in Coventry. (A good show, BTW. Shame that there was never another, but what really made it good (low numbers) was why there wasn't, I presume.)
But that was, what, Autumn 2014? Time passes and the gloss goes off ideas. It's not fair, but it's just the way life is.
That's not to say I wouldn't buy a King, and I've been wanting to buy a Clayton since you announced it.
Perhaps I'm just not temperamentally suited to crowdfunding, perhaps I'm just tired of stuff being announced (not just by you) and then disappearing into Neverland for years. It's not personal.
Hi Nick,
Thanks for the mail.
Yup it was a long time ago, and obviously things haven't gone to plan.
However, guess what? Yes I'd do it all over again knowing what I know now, and going through the same struggles?
Why? Well idiocy might be an answer, but in all honesty, with the 'raft' of future N gauge models I'm planning right now, I want to support the scale....my scale. I love N, and it mortified me to have not produced the models I announced those years ago.......yet.
It will happen, that's a fact. 4 years this summer I started and I'm still here. No help from anyone, no underwriting by manufacturers, no part crowdfunding. Ive done it myself and it's something that I am extremely proud of.
Heck if the exchange rate improves I might be making more N gauge models more quickly too. roll on the class 23 and Mogul. (Yes yes, and the J94, and the Hudswell Clarke, and the etc etc etc) lol
Cheers
Dave
While the King is of no interest personally, if it is a decent model I could see two or three potential sales within our group.
With regard to any DJM product, I'm another in the 'Wait and See' category... I'm afraid I'll not commit money on a non-refundable basis until I can see and handle a (N gauge) model to judge the construction and performance for myself. Without that tangible evidence no-one can fairly judge either way. My first DJM purchase will almost certainly be a standard range model purchased via a reputable retailer, not the much riskier for the customer crowd-funding route. That stance is me being cautious and would apply to any newcomer not just DJM.
Quote from: DJM Dave on March 14, 2017, 04:28:41 PM
Moving forward, I designed the Q1, 67, Hymek, 9f, B1, B17, A3, A4, 56, 58, 52, 22, 33, 26, 27, Britannia, 86, 121 + 122 bubble cars, Terrier, Pannier, HST, DVT, manor, Hall, 28xx plus the OO gauge sentinel, 10000, 22, 52, Beattie. Plus a few wagons Of which quite a few contributed the the 16+ model of the year awards won in my time there.
I introduced 6 pin DCC, light bars, close coupling mechanisms, magnetic couplers and yes 'working' semaphore signals into the N gauge market.
I personally think there are some very good model in that list Dave, and have defended them in the past, the catch-22 is that (on some other fora) some of your most vociferous supporters roundly condemn those models as they do pretty much anything that says Dapol on the box... sighting those as a reference may or not be productive with certain sections of the audience :hmmm:
Can you give a couple of clarifications regarding the spec ,please Dave...
Quote
Specifications
Coreless motor
Next 18 DCC decoder socket
Sound speaker fitment space in tender
Loco drive onto rear axle from motor
Presumably those add up to Motor located in the loco; Speaker and decoder space in the tender?
Quote
Specifications
traction tyres on rear axle but with non traction tyres replacement axle set in box
12 wheel pick up (tender and loco)
Loco drive onto rear axle from motor
Is that 12 wheel pick-up out of the box or is it 10-wheel in standard configuration with traction tyres on the rear drivers and 12-wheel achieved by swapping out the tyred axle? If so, given that the tyred axle is also the driven axle, what will that entail in terms of disassembling coupling & connecting rods?
Quote from: DJM Dave on March 14, 2017, 05:44:30 PM
roll on the class 23
Amen, brother. It was always going to be my DJ Models 'test' loco as there's nothing else been announced that's taken my fancy so it's a shame this one always seems to be at the back of the queue.
(Little do Dapol know their BoB will also be the true 'make or break' of me buying their steamers)
I still say I'll be in the market for weathered Mermaids should they be in the pipeline somewhere :D
Lol, I thought 'the king is of no interest to me personally'?
Motor in the firebox
12 wheel pickup although the rear driver being tire fitted out of the box won't pick up as well as the other wheels.
Align driving wheels to marks on back of driving wheels and keeper plate
Remove rear driver hex bolts, con rod angles away from wheel ( as it's a separate con rod connected to the Centre driver) keeper plate easily removable with 2 screws, lift off, align wheels to mark on keeper plate, clip in and reverse process.
That's just off the top of my head mind, this may change as the chassis design gets looked at in depth.
Cheers
Dave
Quote from: DJM Dave on March 14, 2017, 09:38:18 PM
Lol, I thought 'the king is of no interest to me personally'?
Yeah... I don't want one myself, but it's of interest how they cope apart because (i) if the design works well, you'll probably repeat it on other models that are of interest and (ii) if other club members buy them, guess who's likely to get the job of fixing them... ;)
Great to have you back, Dave. I love my Dapol 26. Not interested in the King, but I've put my name down for the Clayton and the Hudswell. It's the Hudswell l'm really waiting for, what with the shortage of industrials in N.
Quote from: Karhedron on March 13, 2017, 03:50:34 PM
DJM-LS-N-004A 6009 King Charles II BR Lined green with early BR crest
All say he was the king, who brought back partying!
One of the questions I would ask (No, I'm not weakening for a King) is what it's restrictions will be regarding minimum radius curves.
I would hope that with 2 bogies the restrictions will match current Graham Farish steam locomotive models.
However, everything is a compromise, and a tighter radius will involve putting on the 'altered' bogie to allow for enough swing on tighter track.
Hi mate,
It's an interesting proposition but I'm hoping to see the 23 before years end, and income from the j94's AND the 17's should go a long way to tooling this loco.
Ideally I'd like the 2 loco's out this year, but I'm ok with the 23 being first quarter 18 if it needs to.
Besides, too many people ( obviously not the majority, but the glass half empty type) think that crowdfunding so many is wrong and possibly 'iffy' so why give them ammunition.
Mind you if they want to sell their house and try and do better?
Cheers
Dave
I'm tempted, even as a North Eastern Region modeller.
Clun Castle ran through to Newcastle in the late sixties, so why not a King?
However I also need a Schools to go with a 2P I've kept back from an earlier project. 30925 reached Darlington on a special pushing a 2P which apparently was as much use as a chocolate fireguard.
It will depend on how healthy my bank balance is after Easter. Two more OO gauge J94s arriving, then several Mermaids and B Tankers.
Les
I've signed up for two of these; British Railways blue with early crest and British Railways green with late crest. Looking forward to seeing the progress on this one.
Hi John,
I would appeal for every N gauge modeller to spread the word to clubs and friends to help push this through.
It could be, rather like the OO one, a gauge defining locomotive, and i'd love to see one on a layout like Vale Of Oxbury at the head of 10+ bogies speeding through the station.
Cheers
Dave
Following progress on RM Web it seems there's been strong take-up of the King, which is very encouraging.
Quote from: johnlambert on March 21, 2017, 10:47:25 PM
Following progress on RM Web it seems there's been strong take-up of the King, which is very encouraging.
Yes indeed. I have my name down for one and I might stretch to a second if it looks borderline. I can't really afford 2 but if the payments are staggered then the pain to the wallet will be spread out a bit.
Quote from: Karhedron on March 21, 2017, 11:13:54 PM
Yes indeed. I have my name down for one and I might stretch to a second if it looks borderline. I can't really afford 2 but if the payments are staggered then the pain to the wallet will be spread out a bit.
That's my plan too. I'd like three or four really (everything bar the shirt button livery) but even with the staggered payments it'd be too much for me. Knowing what the payments will be certainly gave me the confidence to order two instead of one.
Hopefully the project will lead to further variants in time (even if at a higher price). I'm not bothered about having a particular King in a particular livery, so I don't think I'll miss out forever on a G-crest-W or BR early crest version.
With the demise of the Dapol BOB/West Country, I'm in! Off to sign up now...
Order placed for a late crest loco to run on Vale of Oxbury; It will finally replace my Foxhunter kit based King based on that aged Farish Castle chassis ; it still looks good being built and painted by Mr Jones way back in his Nsprays days.
Quote from: DJM Dave on March 18, 2017, 03:24:11 PM
Hi John,
I would appeal for every N gauge modeller to spread the word to clubs and friends to help push this through.
It could be, rather like the OO one, a gauge defining locomotive, and i'd love to see one on a layout like Vale Of Oxbury at the head of 10+ bogies speeding through the station.
Cheers
Dave
I was in my local model shop at the weekend to pre-order a Graham Farish Castle and mentioned this project. Hopefully the shop owner will mention it to any GWR or BR Western Region modellers.
I have made an expression of interest for a blue King. I'm assuming this is in the condition it ran in B.R. days?
The more I think about a King loco, the more I am tempted to additionally go for a green early crest.
Do we get an acknowledgment of our expression/s of interest, so we know we are counted in?
I wait with bated breath to hear how much expression of interest has been generated!
In one of DJM's other threads, a few people mentioned that they had not received confirmation emails (including me). You can always contact him by email to check that your order has been received. The automated confirmations may not be 100% reliable but in my experience Dave is usually very good at replying to emails.
I PM'ed Dave on RM Web as I didn't get an email confirmation and he replied very quickly to confirm that my order was on the system.
I expressed an interest through his website.
I emailed Dave asking if a King in Ultramarine blue with BRITISH RAILWAYS on the tender might be considered. It's not the be all, but would be nice. With several irons in the fire I imagine he's quite busy.
Quote from: trkilliman on April 06, 2017, 09:43:50 PM
I emailed Dave asking if a King in Ultramarine blue with BRITISH RAILWAYS on the tender might be considered. It's not the be all, but would be nice. With several irons in the fire I imagine he's quite busy.
Looking at the options announced so far, the tooling should support it. Whether the economics of another livery would work out I do not know. Would probably require something like 250-300 orders to make it viable.
Quote from: johnlambert on April 06, 2017, 09:29:45 PM
I PM'ed Dave on RM Web as I didn't get an email confirmation and he replied very quickly to confirm that my order was on the system.
I too did not receive an email confirmation nor sadly any response to a private email sent on this forum to Dave on 23 March. I hope my Blue King is on the list. ???
Ian
Quote from: trkilliman on April 06, 2017, 09:18:38 PM
I have made an expression of interest for a blue King. I'm assuming this is in the condition it ran in B.R. days?
The more I think about a King loco, the more I am tempted to additionally go for a green early crest.
Do we get an acknowledgment of our expression/s of interest, so we know we are counted in?
I wait with bated breath to hear how much expression of interest has been generated!
Just in case you're in danger of falling into a trap on the livery, blue was an experiment in the early days of BR. Kings and all other express steam locos were soon painted in Brunswick green from about the mid-fifties (I'll have to look up the precise dates).
Quote from: crepello on April 10, 2017, 04:39:05 PM
Just in case you're in danger of falling into a trap on the livery, blue was an experiment in the early days of BR. Kings and all other express steam locos were soon painted in Brunswick green from about the mid-fifties (I'll have to look up the precise dates).
Not exactly experimental. The earlier Ultramarine Blue was experimental but the Caledonian Blue that was eventually selected was standard on all Class 8 locos in the early 50s. IIRC it was around 1952 that the Class 8s started to go Brunswick green so there is a good 3 year window where it was the official livery.
^Were they that indecisive? I mean, there have been complaints about the expense of changing private franchise liveries, but most of them last longer than three years.
Quote from: Bornin1980something on April 10, 2017, 10:21:30 PM
^Were they that indecisive? I mean, there have been complaints about the expense of changing private franchise liveries, but most of them last longer than three years.
I think that the shade of blue they opted for turned out to be very prone to fading whereas the green (which was already in use on Class 7 locos proved to be more durable.
Just registered interest for the DJM-LS-N-005A 6017 King Edward IV BR Lined green with Late BR crest.
i expressed an interest but im very reluctant to put anything forward as i have YET to see anything from DJmodels in n gauge to judge them on...id rather see at least one or two locos in production first before committing money forward towards the king, as much as i hope it happens as i would love a blue king!
Given Dave's track record (and the early reviews of his N Gauge Mermaid) I have little fear of being disappointed by his King. My greater fear is that it won't get built because too many interested parties decide to wait and see.
Quote from: longbow on June 07, 2017, 12:06:21 AM
Given Dave's track record (and the early reviews of his N Gauge Mermaid) I have little fear of being disappointed by his King. My greater fear is that it won't get built because too many interested parties decide to wait and see.
I agree. I can't see anyone else lining up to make a N Gauge GWR King any time soon. From what I've seen of Dave's other models from the DJM brand - plus his output from his previous employer - I've got every confidence that the N Gauge King would be superb.
The last update from Dave was that the project was halfway to getting enough orders (I hope I've got that right), so there must be plenty of people who believe in the DJM King. I've signed up for two and really hope I'll be running them on my layout one day.
Quote from: longbow on June 07, 2017, 12:06:21 AM
Given Dave's track record (and the early reviews of his N Gauge Mermaid) I have little fear of being disappointed by his King. My greater fear is that it won't get built because too many interested parties decide to wait and see.
Totally agree. There does appear to be a fair few people saying they will wait and see. What these people have to ask is - what new N gauge locos are currently in the development stage? Dapol has everything on hold with no suggestion that the projects will be revived in the foreseeable future. Farish may well have some plans they haven't revealed but there isn't exactly a lot on the stocks at the moment, especially steam era. Revolution appear to be going well but appear to get success from models of the current scene. DJM have got other potential N gauge locos they would like to develop such as the GWR mogul but if this project doesn't fly then the others start to look doubtful. If we are to see more new N gauge locos in the future then this King project needs to be a success. It is worth supporting it for that reason alone.
I've signed up for one.
Quote from: longbow on June 07, 2017, 12:06:21 AM
Given Dave's track record (and the early reviews of his N Gauge Mermaid) I have little fear of being disappointed by his King. My greater fear is that it won't get built because too many interested parties decide to wait and see.
[/quot
This is exactly my take on it Longbow.
If as many of us hope this comes to fruition I honestly expect it to be a real stunner of a model. If it is, then people will likely be clammering for more from DJM, and who knows, even the NGS may look favourably towards him for a special commision.
Time will of course tell, but I'm also happy to have faith in DJM, rather than sit on the sidelines and let others express interest/commit.
I agree with the above sentiments. Sometimes it takes a bit of a leap of faith to get these things off the ground but based on Dave's past form, I am reasonably confident it is not an undue risk.
I was slightly disappointed that most of the crowd-funding initiatives so far have been focused on modern (or at least post-steam) scene. The chance for one of the GWR's crack express locos in N gauge is too good for me to pass up.
Just as an aside, the level of detail and variation that Dave is looking to include is very impressive. Research has identified 15 different features that varied over the lifetime of the Kings and if the Hattons versions are anything to go by, Dave seems determined to make sure that "collars and cuffs match" for every loco. :thumbsup:
Interesting (and dismaying) that this sentiment comes up again. "I hope it gets made, but it's too risky for me to back" is effectively what people are saying, but what they really mean is"I hope others bear the risk for me to benefit."
Quote from: Carmont on June 07, 2017, 09:12:59 AM
Interesting (and dismaying) that this sentiment comes up again. "I hope it gets made, but it's too risky for me to back" is effectively what people are saying, but what they really mean is"I hope others bear the risk for me to benefit."
Some people do not like risk. This is sad but completely understandable. Having said that, Dave has brought several products to market already (00 gauge under his own DJM brand and plenty of N Gauge stuff at Dapol) so he definitely a known quantity and not much of a risk IMHO.
The real shame from my point of view is that if everyone takes the same approach, the project will not go ahead. This is why the Crowdfunded models are being offered more cheaply than any subsequent production runs.
Quote from: Karhedron on June 07, 2017, 10:06:30 AM
Quote from: Carmont on June 07, 2017, 09:12:59 AM
Interesting (and dismaying) that this sentiment comes up again. "I hope it gets made, but it's too risky for me to back" is effectively what people are saying, but what they really mean is"I hope others bear the risk for me to benefit."
Some people do not like risk. This is sad but completely understandable. Having said that, Dave has brought several products to market already (00 gauge under his own DJM brand and plenty of N Gauge stuff at Dapol) so he definitely a known quantity and not much of a risk IMHO.
The real shame from my point of view is that if everyone takes the same approach, the project will not go ahead. This is why the Crowdfunded models are being offered more cheaply than any subsequent production runs.
Karhedron, I fully appreciate that many are risk averse, and that's fine. But to be risk averse and in the same breath, 'hope' that others take that risk on their behalf so that they might benefit................
Quote from: Chris Morris on June 07, 2017, 06:29:48 AM
DJM have got other potential N gauge locos they would like to develop such as the GWR mogul ...
A mogul. I would sign up for one of those also.
Do you think he would stretch to a Garratt? :)
CFJ
Quote from: NinOz on June 07, 2017, 10:14:07 AM
Quote from: Chris Morris on June 07, 2017, 06:29:48 AM
DJM have got other potential N gauge locos they would like to develop such as the GWR mogul ...
A mogul. I would sign up for one of those also.
As I understand it, the Mogul is part of Dave's own development line and not a crowd funder. This means it will be developed using the profits from Dave's initial models such as the J94 and Clayton.
As such, I don't think that the King failing would necessarily prevent the Mogul from appearing. Having said that, if the King goes ahead, it will be a definite vote of confidence in the GWR. :)
Quote from: Carmont on June 07, 2017, 10:09:42 AM
Quote from: Karhedron on June 07, 2017, 10:06:30 AM
Quote from: Carmont on June 07, 2017, 09:12:59 AM
Interesting (and dismaying) that this sentiment comes up again. "I hope it gets made, but it's too risky for me to back" is effectively what people are saying, but what they really mean is"I hope others bear the risk for me to benefit."
Some people do not like risk. This is sad but completely understandable. Having said that, Dave has brought several products to market already (00 gauge under his own DJM brand and plenty of N Gauge stuff at Dapol) so he definitely a known quantity and not much of a risk IMHO.
The real shame from my point of view is that if everyone takes the same approach, the project will not go ahead. This is why the Crowdfunded models are being offered more cheaply than any subsequent production runs.
Karhedron, I fully appreciate that many are risk averse, and that's fine. But to be risk averse and in the same breath, 'hope' that others take that risk on their behalf so that they might benefit................
I may have the funding model wrong but I assumed that unless someone orders some models for resell wouldn't those who didn't commit not be able to buy one otherwise?
Those joining the initial crowdfunding are promised unique liveries and a lower price but not total exclusivity. DJM have opened up the Class 92 project to major retailers, which helps get it over the line but does carry the risk of undercutting the crowdfunding process.
Quote from: NinOz on June 07, 2017, 10:19:57 AM
I may have the funding model wrong but I assumed that unless someone orders some models for resell wouldn't those who didn't commit not be able to buy one otherwise?
No you are correct about the initial run. Some people are assuming/hoping that if the crowd-funding goes ahead, there will be a second run in a few years time which will be available to buy normally.
Whilst I am sure that Dave would like to do a second run, I do not think this is a certainty. 1500 models (the size of the initial run) is likely to satisfy appetites for quite a while. Also a second run (if it does happen) is likely to be at a higher price given inflation etc.
And now I am thinking about getting a 3rd King to flog on eBay just to help get the project across the line. ;D
Quote from: Karhedron on June 07, 2017, 10:44:18 AM
And now I am thinking about getting a 3rd King to flog on eBay just to help get the project across the line. ;D
That seems like a good idea for assisting. :thumbsup:
Will order an extra or two myself. Only problem is, will I actually part with the extras. :worried:
CFJ
Saw the Mogul announcement on RM site, don't know how I missed it. Intention announced mid 2014 so I hope it will not be too far away. Want the two GWR insignia versions.
Quote from: Karhedron on June 07, 2017, 10:44:18 AM
Quote from: NinOz on June 07, 2017, 10:19:57 AM
I may have the funding model wrong but I assumed that unless someone orders some models for resell wouldn't those who didn't commit not be able to buy one otherwise?
No you are correct about the initial run. Some people are assuming/hoping that if the crowd-funding goes ahead, there will be a second run in a few years time which will be available to buy normally.
Whilst I am sure that Dave would like to do a second run, I do not think this is a certainty. 1500 models (the size of the initial run) is likely to satisfy appetites for quite a while. Also a second run (if it does happen) is likely to be at a higher price given inflation etc.
And now I am thinking about getting a 3rd King to flog on eBay just to help get the project across the line. ;D
This has gotten me thinking about a possible 3rd King Matt. I wonder what the doubting Thomas's could end up paying for one via ebay?
Quote from: trkilliman on June 07, 2017, 11:25:33 AM
Quote from: Karhedron on June 07, 2017, 10:44:18 AM
Quote from: NinOz on June 07, 2017, 10:19:57 AM
I may have the funding model wrong but I assumed that unless someone orders some models for resell wouldn't those who didn't commit not be able to buy one otherwise?
No you are correct about the initial run. Some people are assuming/hoping that if the crowd-funding goes ahead, there will be a second run in a few years time which will be available to buy normally.
Whilst I am sure that Dave would like to do a second run, I do not think this is a certainty. 1500 models (the size of the initial run) is likely to satisfy appetites for quite a while. Also a second run (if it does happen) is likely to be at a higher price given inflation etc.
And now I am thinking about getting a 3rd King to flog on eBay just to help get the project across the line. ;D
This has gotten me thinking about a possible 3rd King Matt. I wonder what the doubting Thomas's could end up paying for one via ebay?
At a big markup for their lack of faith. :D
Quote from: trkilliman on June 07, 2017, 11:25:33 AM
Quote from: Karhedron on June 07, 2017, 10:44:18 AM
And now I am thinking about getting a 3rd King to flog on eBay just to help get the project across the line. ;D
This has gotten me thinking about a possible 3rd King Matt. I wonder what the doubting Thomas's could end up paying for one via ebay?
I'm now thinking the same thing. Trouble is, I'd like three of my own. Maybe I need to increase my order to four?
Quote from: Snowwolflair on June 07, 2017, 11:27:31 AM
Quote from: trkilliman on June 07, 2017, 11:25:33 AM
This has gotten me thinking about a possible 3rd King Matt. I wonder what the doubting Thomas's could end up paying for one via ebay?
At a big markup for their lack of faith. :D
(https://i.imgflip.com/1qge1w.jpg) (https://imgflip.com/i/1qge1w)via Imgflip Meme Generator (https://imgflip.com/memegenerator)
Only two days to the project deadline on Sunday. The B-Tanks project built up a real buzz which I'm sure helped it over the finish line, but here it's all quiet. Not even a reminder from DJM.
Dave has extended the deadline to end of. July 2017.
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/120871-djm-n-gauge-crowdfunded-king-class-steam-loco-has-started/?p=2757143 (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/120871-djm-n-gauge-crowdfunded-king-class-steam-loco-has-started/?p=2757143)
I do NOT need a King
I do NOT need a King
I do NOT need a King
I do NOT need a King
I do NOT need a King
I do NOT need a King
I do NOT need a King
I do NOT need a King
..... but I have put my name on the list for one.
Les
Quote from: Les1952 on June 21, 2017, 11:07:08 PM
I do NOT need a King
I do NOT need a King
I do NOT need a King
I do NOT need a King
I do NOT need a King
I do NOT need a King
I do NOT need a King
I do NOT need a King
..... but I have put my name on the list for one.
Les
and
Posted on RM Web today
"Still slightly short but I think it's as near as makes no difference now and tooling will start once I'm happy with the N gauge cad.
However, if you are reading this and want to become part of history and have a fantastic model to boot, then please sign up, and get this officially 'over the line'.
Crowdfunding has shown that modellers can and do change their minds about whether they want to be involved in these projects or not. Indeed, they may decide to change eras, regions, countries even, that they model, so I'd rather not sit back and say 'yup, it's there' when there needs to be a small.......ahem............buffer (sorry, I couldn't resist), to act as a safety net for the project.
Hope this helps
Cheers
Dave"
Ian :bounce: