Why, oh why, are there no 0-4-0 locos in n-gauge? Since mini shunting layouts seem to be among the most popular formats in our hobby, you'd think one of the manufacturers would grasp the nettle and provide a suitable engine. I recognise the challenge of fitting all the necessary gubbins (*technical term) in a small body, but still - given the popularity of little engines in the modding/kitbashing/scratchbuilding area - there ought to be a decent market?
I'd pay good money for a Peckett, Baguley-Drewry, or Hunslet and I'm sure others would too. And these engines represent the root, the very DNA, of railway locomotion. Those beggars in 00 and 009 gauges are pretty well served, so why not us?
Rant over!
You are correct Pete, just had a quick shufftie on the inter web and found these,
From this,
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/N-Gauge-Ibertren-Cuckoo-0-4-0-With-Smoke-Generator-/391721342608 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/N-Gauge-Ibertren-Cuckoo-0-4-0-With-Smoke-Generator-/391721342608)
To this,
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GRAHAM-FARISH-1109-ARNOLD-KIT-BUILT-0-4-0-MANNING-WARDLE-SADDLE-TANK-LOCO-SULTAN-/111294554700 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GRAHAM-FARISH-1109-ARNOLD-KIT-BUILT-0-4-0-MANNING-WARDLE-SADDLE-TANK-LOCO-SULTAN-/111294554700)
Not brilliant is it.... :hmmm:
Quote from: PeteW on March 08, 2017, 02:23:46 AM
Why, oh why, are there no 0-4-0 locos in n-gauge?
None in British N maybe, off the top of my head I can think of this slighly unprotoypical Japanese one: http://www.katomodels.com/n/pocket_line/ (http://www.katomodels.com/n/pocket_line/)
and sure I've seen some German/continental ones from the likes of Minitrix.
Personally I have no interest in these, but given that the NGS is doing an 0-6-0 Hunslett diesel, maybe there's some potential in the crowd-funding route?
The problem isn't fitting the technical gubbins in; it's getting power to those gubbins.
I've built a couple of pugs using the Shapeways print & Japanese chassis, and the main issues are (obviously) the short wheelbase, but also the lack of weight to push all 4 wheels down into contact with the track. Think about it - there's a small amount of vertical play in the axles (there has to be, otherwise they wouldn't turn). This in theory also helps to keep the wheels in contact with the track, but in reality means that, due to the lack of weight, only 3 wheels are in (electrical) contact with the rails at any one time. Even the tiniest spec of dirt or dust on the track or one of the wheels will render it completely stationary.
As you go down in scale the problem gets worse, so the above isn't much of a problem in OO gauge (2x the size means 8x the volume, so plenty of room to add weight).
Even if the Pug body was cast metal, there's so little of it that it wouldn't make much difference either. The only way round it in N is to add additional pickups to a truck permanently wired to the loco.
Having said that you can get 4 wheels to work, but it takes a lot of time, a lot of patience, and in my experience a lot of swearing, too. 6 wheels gives you more of a fighting chance, and is really the practical limit in N for most people, IMHO.
I'm currently running a Farish class 108 and 2 Dapol M7's that only pick-up on 4 wheels and do not experience any worse operation than power units with more wheels picking up the power.
Dodger
Don't know what an M7 is, but certainly the 108 will have far more weight bearing down on each wheelset than you could get with a small 0-4-0 loco ;)
Paul
The newer Farish 101/108 dmu's have split axle current collection on the non-powered motor bogie.
Izzy
I too would like to buy British Outline 0-4-0 and 0-6-0 industrial locomotives. While there are a few useful 0-6-0s about, the Farish J94 springs to mind, I'd dearly love to be able to run a Hunslett, Peckett or Manning-Wardle on a branch or industrial line.
Thank you all for the interesting responses. I admit I hadn't considered the powerfeed issue, but if the 'cute' Japanese model that Railsquid linked to runs as well as most Katos are reputed to (no personal experience) it suggests that the problem is not insurmountable. And there have been a number of European models in 0-4-0 that again, reputedly, run pretty well (if you can find a good one).
It was an evening-long trawl through eBay looking for a suitable donor that prompted the OP. I'm pretty confident in my modelling abilities to consider kitbashing something even remotely prototypical. But I have no confidence in my ability to source the parts and build a powered chassis. I've looked, and looked again, at the Kato 11-103 chassis, which obviously works well for 009 models but seems a bit on the large side for anything in N.
As Byegad points out, there are several 0-6-0s - I've just bought a Farish J94 myself - and away from the steely gaze of MrsW there are a couple of 04 diesels in my eBay watch list. But my next investment really must be some track. An immobile engine on the desk and some imagination can only take you so far ;D.
You can get the Kato pocket line series in the UK:
http://www.topslotsntrains.com/topslotsntrains/final.asp?ref=Kato-Japan-10-502-1-N-Scale-POCKET-LINE---MINI-CONVEX-RED-FREIGHT-TRAIN-&id=11799&manufacturer=%27KATO%20N%20Gauge%27 (http://www.topslotsntrains.com/topslotsntrains/final.asp?ref=Kato-Japan-10-502-1-N-Scale-POCKET-LINE---MINI-CONVEX-RED-FREIGHT-TRAIN-&id=11799&manufacturer=%27KATO%20N%20Gauge%27)
They do run well for their tiny size ;)
@PeteW (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=5940)
Cheers John.
Quote from: scotsoft on March 08, 2017, 01:15:51 PM
You can get the Kato pocket line series in the UK:
http://www.topslotsntrains.com/topslotsntrains/final.asp?ref=Kato-Japan-10-502-1-N-Scale-POCKET-LINE---MINI-CONVEX-RED-FREIGHT-TRAIN-&id=11799&manufacturer=%27KATO%20N%20Gauge%27 (http://www.topslotsntrains.com/topslotsntrains/final.asp?ref=Kato-Japan-10-502-1-N-Scale-POCKET-LINE---MINI-CONVEX-RED-FREIGHT-TRAIN-&id=11799&manufacturer=%27KATO%20N%20Gauge%27)
They do run well for their tiny size ;)
@PeteW (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=5940)
Cheers John.
That if they get any in they've been out of stock for about 18 months.
Dodger
Quote from: dodger on March 08, 2017, 01:20:09 PM
Quote from: scotsoft on March 08, 2017, 01:15:51 PM
You can get the Kato pocket line series in the UK:
http://www.topslotsntrains.com/topslotsntrains/final.asp?ref=Kato-Japan-10-502-1-N-Scale-POCKET-LINE---MINI-CONVEX-RED-FREIGHT-TRAIN-&id=11799&manufacturer=%27KATO%20N%20Gauge%27 (http://www.topslotsntrains.com/topslotsntrains/final.asp?ref=Kato-Japan-10-502-1-N-Scale-POCKET-LINE---MINI-CONVEX-RED-FREIGHT-TRAIN-&id=11799&manufacturer=%27KATO%20N%20Gauge%27)
They do run well for their tiny size ;)
@PeteW (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=5940)
Cheers John.
That if they get any in they've been out of stock for about 18 months.
Dodger
I did not spot that, thanks for pointing it out :NGaugersRule:
Cheers John.
A glimmer of hope, instantly crushed :doh: ;D
Quote from: PeteW on March 08, 2017, 02:02:38 PM
A glimmer of hope, instantly crushed :doh: ;D
A bit more research indicates this version: http://www.katomodels.com/n/chibiloco/ (http://www.katomodels.com/n/chibiloco/) is due for release this month. It might be directly available from: http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10113309 (http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10113309) (though they do something funny with their links so I can't check that from within Japan).
Thanks, but after a bit of reading around it looks as though those little Katos are powered by a motor in the carriage, not the loco itself. Which obviously rules them out of a shunting role. It would be helpful to many of us, I'm sure, if we could get that confirmed or refuted.
I wonder if a steam body could be fitted to one like this:
http://www.hattons.co.uk/262939/Arnold_2062Arnold_SAS_0_4_0_Diesel_Locomotive_of_the_Swiss_OBB_Pre_owned_sold_as_seen_Inconsistent_/StockDetail.aspx (http://www.hattons.co.uk/262939/Arnold_2062Arnold_SAS_0_4_0_Diesel_Locomotive_of_the_Swiss_OBB_Pre_owned_sold_as_seen_Inconsistent_/StockDetail.aspx)
Moving across the pond there have been a handful of 0-4-0s, surprisingly going back to the earlier days of N in the US. None have been produced for quite some time.
http://www.spookshow.net/loco/riv040.html (http://www.spookshow.net/loco/riv040.html)
http://www.spookshow.net/loco/bach040.html (http://www.spookshow.net/loco/bach040.html)
I have one of the Atlas 0-4-0 tender engines - it hasn't been out of the box for years, but from memory it ran quite well although did benefit from additional pick up from the tender.
Quote from: PeteW on March 08, 2017, 03:55:18 PM
Thanks, but after a bit of reading around it looks as though those little Katos are powered by a motor in the carriage, not the loco itself. Which obviously rules them out of a shunting role. It would be helpful to many of us, I'm sure, if we could get that confirmed or refuted.
Ah yes, now you mention it, that is indeed the case, see the set diagram: http://www.katomodels.com/cgi-bin/nmi_pictureview.cgi?id=chibiloco&num=1 (http://www.katomodels.com/cgi-bin/nmi_pictureview.cgi?id=chibiloco&num=1) which shows the first carriage (middle vehicle) as "M" (motor).
Sorry about that, I've only ever had a fleeting look at these.
Quote from: keithfre on March 08, 2017, 04:11:37 PM
I wonder if a steam body could be fitted to one like this:
http://www.hattons.co.uk/262939/Arnold_2062Arnold_SAS_0_4_0_Diesel_Locomotive_of_the_Swiss_OBB_Pre_owned_sold_as_seen_Inconsistent_/StockDetail.aspx (http://www.hattons.co.uk/262939/Arnold_2062Arnold_SAS_0_4_0_Diesel_Locomotive_of_the_Swiss_OBB_Pre_owned_sold_as_seen_Inconsistent_/StockDetail.aspx)
I suppose it would fit inside the P&D Marsh sentinel body?
http://www.pdmarshmodels.com/show_product.php?pid=17 (http://www.pdmarshmodels.com/show_product.php?pid=17)
If that is a whitemetal kit it would also give some weight for traction and pickup....
Quote from: railsquid on March 09, 2017, 10:29:07 AM
Sorry about that, I've only ever had a fleeting look at these.
No apology necessary; all part of the learning experience (and I have so much to learn!)
The little orange Arnold was sold as a KOF Loco. I nearly bought two some twenty+ years ago and have regretted it ever since. They also did a Blue 0-4-0 named Bokum which I do have, it runs well on Kato track and points. Fleischmann made an 0-4-0 loco, which again runs well on my Kato track.
I have the Fleischmann 0-4-0, very heavy metal build
and powerful for its size. Got mine cheap from a
German Ebay seller as not working properly,
just one of the tiny conrods had come adrift
and I fixed it in seconds.
Quote from: broadsword on March 09, 2017, 01:47:41 PM
. . . very heavy metal
:headbang:
Sorry, wrong type of heavy metal :D
Paul
The prototype was Iron Made in Germany............sorry bout that...........
Iron Maid en. They are Gods of Rock and i'd love to see them in Germany. :bounce:
There are a number of German outline 0-4-0 locos available currently. Fleischmann have recently released the little E69 electric in sundry liveries: http://www.fleischmann.de/en/product/235235-0-0-4-1-0-0-002002/products.html (http://www.fleischmann.de/en/product/235235-0-0-4-1-0-0-002002/products.html)
There's also the Hobbytrain V20: http://www.lemkecollection.de/de/Uebersicht/Spur-N/Diesellok-V20.033-DB-schwarz-Ep.III (http://www.lemkecollection.de/de/Uebersicht/Spur-N/Diesellok-V20.033-DB-schwarz-Ep.III)
The Mintrix "Glaskasten" (http://www.trix.de/de/produkte/details.html?tx_torrpdb_pi1%5Bart_nr%5D=12256&tx_torrpdb_pi1%5Brl%5D=67%2C56%2C10&tx_torrpdb_pi1%5Bbacklink%5D=67&tx_torrpdb_pi1%5Bpage%5D=2&tx_torrpdb_pi1%5Bperpage%5D=40&tx_torrpdb_pi1%5Bera%5D=&tx_torrpdb_pi1%5Bnewonly%5D=0&tx_torrpdb_pi1%5Bgaugechoice%5D=7&tx_torrpdb_pi1%5Bgroupchoice%5D=8&tx_torrpdb_pi1%5Bsubgroupchoice%5D=32) steam loco and Kof (http://www.trix.de/de/produkte/details.html?tx_torrpdb_pi1%5Bart_nr%5D=12343&tx_torrpdb_pi1%5Brl%5D=69%2C56%2C10&tx_torrpdb_pi1%5Bbacklink%5D=69&tx_torrpdb_pi1%5Bpage%5D=1&tx_torrpdb_pi1%5Bperpage%5D=40&tx_torrpdb_pi1%5Bera%5D=&tx_torrpdb_pi1%5Bnewonly%5D=0&tx_torrpdb_pi1%5Bgaugechoice%5D=7&tx_torrpdb_pi1%5Bgroupchoice%5D=8&tx_torrpdb_pi1%5Bsubgroupchoice%5D=33) diesel shunters are out of production currently, but I have an Arnold Kof from way back and it's a nice runner.
Quote from: GScaleBruce on March 09, 2017, 05:57:03 PM
There are a number of German outline 0-4-0 locos available currently.
Thanks for the suggestion, but they're a bit pricey when you add in the costs of the inevitable divorce ;D ["You spent how much?!? And now you're cutting it up because it doesn't look right?!?"]
Quote from: PeteW on March 08, 2017, 02:23:46 AM
Why, oh why, are there no 0-4-0 locos in n-gauge? Since mini shunting layouts seem to be among the most popular formats in our hobby, you'd think one of the manufacturers would grasp the nettle and provide a suitable engine. I recognise the challenge of fitting all the necessary gubbins (*technical term) in a small body, but still - given the popularity of little engines in the modding/kitbashing/scratchbuilding area - there ought to be a decent market?
I'd pay good money for a Peckett, Baguley-Drewry, or Hunslet and I'm sure others would too. And these engines represent the root, the very DNA, of railway locomotion. Those beggars in 00 and 009 gauges are pretty well served, so why not us?
Rant over!
There might not be any 0-4-0s, but still there are 0-6-0s!
There are, indeed, 0-6-0s, and I'm a bit miffed that no-one pointed me to this thread:
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=28320.0 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=28320.0)
in which certain 0-6-0s are converted to 0-4-0s. I suspect that you all didn't want the competition for those nice little Minitrixes on eBay. But I'm onto you now, and they shall be mine!
Quote from: PeteW on March 08, 2017, 02:23:46 AM
Why, oh why, are there no 0-4-0 locos in n-gauge? Since mini shunting layouts seem to be among the most popular formats in our hobby
To be fair, shunting layouts are not N gauge's strongest area. You can certainly build them and the Dapol's Easishunt couplers make hands-off operation a lot easier. But I think that N Gauge's strength is its ability to portray a railway in the landscape in a modest space.
Has anyone (manufacturer or tinkerer) ever tried adding pickups to an 0-4-0? I'm thinking, like the "skates" that are (used to be?) fitted to LGB G scale locos. They would be pretty discrete in N Gauge I would think.
Cheers Jon :)
Quote from: Karhedron on March 13, 2017, 04:00:25 PM
Quote from: PeteW on March 08, 2017, 02:23:46 AM
Why, oh why, are there no 0-4-0 locos in n-gauge? Since mini shunting layouts seem to be among the most popular formats in our hobby
To be fair, shunting layouts are not N gauge's strongest area. You can certainly build them and the Dapol's Easishunt couplers make hands-off operation a lot easier. But I think that N Gauge's strength is its ability to portray a railway in the landscape in a modest space.
Couldn't agree more. While modern Bo-Bo and Co-Co diesels are a lot better now at reliable slow running than they were in the past, I'm not so convinced 0-6-0 shunters of either steam or diesel varieties are as rock-solid as I'd like. It doesn't take much to break the current to these light, short-wheelbase locos -- and when that happens, the big old hand in the sky is needed!
Of course, if you could wire up a shunter's truck to one of these locos, you would probably get much better reliability, and it goes without saying that if you lay your track completely flat, avoid Insulfrogs, and keep the rails and wheels spotlessly clean, you should be fine.
If I wanted to build a layout for pure low-speed Inglenook operation, I think one of the larger scales would be easier, particularly 0, which really lends itself to slow running.
As Karhedron says, N's great strength is in building a realistic scene in relatively small space.
Cheers, NeMo