Is there is any interest in N scale Pullmans similar to the 00 Hornby range? If so perhaps a poll would indicate any enthusiasm to interest a possible manufacturer.
Gerry
I have a rake of the old Poole-built Graham Farish Pullman coaches, and I know Bachmann did an updated range as there's been a few threads about them before.
No idea what the Hornby range has though, haven't so much as looked at 00 stuff in 35 years! ???
Paul
I'm not!
I would like some updated older style Pullman coaches but doubt I could afford them, I imagine they would end up costing about 50 pounds each :( if they were built to current standards.
Quote from: Herzel on March 02, 2017, 07:24:32 PM
If a Brighton Belle set came available I'd go for it.
It has, by Arnold - one of Hornby's international subsidiaries. They were selling them off cheap for a while. They did both blue/grey and cream/umber (if that's what the Pullman livery was called!).
I'd like a pair of steel, flat sided Brake/Parlour 2nds (the 1928 built vehicles) to make a proper rake with the Farish Metro-Cammell 1960s Pullman stock. It seems odd that Farish has not produced any brake vehicles for the 1960s steam hauled Tees Tyne Pullman and Yorkshire Pullman, when they have a range of the other vehicles available.
There are lots of pictures of the Tees Tyne Pullman showing a consist of 8 (6 Metro-Cammells and 2 Brake/Parlour 2nds), hauled variously by A4s, A1s and A3s.
Sometimes the mix has more of the flat sided stock or, earlier than the 1960s, is wholly flat sided.
Any plan to produce these vehicles would get my vote!
I would definitely be up for a rake of Pullman stock! :idea:
1928 stock would be my preference but I would probably take whatever was going.
Quote from: silly moo on March 02, 2017, 07:27:25 PM
I would like some updated older style Pullman coaches but doubt I could afford them, I imagine they would end up costing about 50 pounds each :( if they were built to current standards.
Quote from: Karhedron on March 02, 2017, 08:37:57 PM
I would definitely be up for a rake of Pullman stock! :idea:
1928 stock would be my preference but I would probably take whatever was going.
Yes, I need some Diagram 'K' Pullmans for a project.
Quote from: njee20 on March 02, 2017, 07:28:11 PM
Quote from: Herzel on March 02, 2017, 07:24:32 PM
If a Brighton Belle set came available I'd go for it.
It has, by Arnold - one of Hornby's international subsidiaries. They were selling them off cheap for a while. They did both blue/grey and cream/umber (if that's what the Pullman livery was called!).
I've seen blue/grey on sale still at very reasonable prices. Got me a 5 car umber/cream as soon as they came out - it is simply exquisite. 8)
Interestingly there was a thread on RMWeb this morning lamenting Hornby for turning out another version of the Pullman, and exploiting what is clearly a cash cow. Seems mildly Surprising no ones picked up the mantle in N, although I wonder if it's the same as many Hornby products that there's a reluctance for either Bachmann or Dapol to have a go in the smaller scale.
The 1923 K-class Pullman cars were in the top 50 items in the RM web wishlist poll, so it seems there is interest in new Pullman coaches. Whether or not that translates into new models is a different matter, but the manufacturers do see the results of the poll.
The wishlist poll results can be viewed via the link below:
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/116458-results-the-wishlist-poll-2016/ (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/116458-results-the-wishlist-poll-2016/)
They will probably have to maintain that poll position (or better) for a few consecutive years before the established manufacturers take note.
I've not long since sold all my Pullman coaches so not for me, thanks :no:
or give it a go http://www.worsleyworks.co.uk/2mm/2mm_Pullman_Coaches.htm (http://www.worsleyworks.co.uk/2mm/2mm_Pullman_Coaches.htm) Allen will resize his etch's to 1/148
Nick
I'd definitely be up for straight-sided Pullman brakes to run with the ECML mark 1 Pullmans; I have to use BGs at present. I'm surprised Hornby didn't realise there was a market for these when they produced the Brighton Belle cars. Maybe Bachmann will consider one day as a 'train pack' or set such as the South Wales Pullman with the Castle, the Bournemouth Belle with the MN or the Queen of Scots with the A1?
Bachmann have recently showed that they are willing to consider N gauge models that Hornby offer in 00 (Hawksworths, Merchant Navy) so perhaps there is hope from that quarter.
Dapol seem to be busy with their 00 and 0 gauge ranges at the moment and there has been little movement from them in N gauge for a while.
I think Hornby lost a lot a money on the Arnold Brighton Belle Pullman. Production was staggered, and the first batch sold so poorly they pulled it. At the time I thought it was a rather large toe to dip in the water. Anyway, they seem to have decided these waters are too cold! It's now two and a half years since that release and not even rumours of further releases. IMHO, I'll never see another UK outline release in British N Scale from Hornby. No, not in my lifetime. :'(
As far as I know no real Mk 1 Pullman brakes were ever made, they always used ordinary Mk 1 brakes, the Western region ones were favoured because the colour matched. That's why Farish haven't made one. There are a couple of posts somewhere on the forum that mention it.
The first thing I asked when I got some mk1 Pullmans was "where's the brake coach"
Talking of 'missing' Pullman coaches. The Mk1 Pullman is available as a parlour or kitchen car. As far as I can remember the older-style Farish Pullmans only came as a parlour car or parlour brake (I can't think of a better term). I presume there was no kitchen car in that style of coach.
What do people use as a substitute kitchen car?
Quote from: silly moo on March 03, 2017, 01:45:41 PM
As far as I know no real Mk 1 Pullman brakes were ever made, they always used ordinary Mk 1 brakes, the Western region ones were favoured because the colour matched. That's why Farish haven't made one. There are a couple of posts somewhere on the forum that mention it.
The first thing I asked when I got some mk1 Pullmans was "where's the brake coach"
Quite right, they ran with the straight sided older Pullman brakes but not g alas the old farish style brakes. I remember seeing a Pullman arriving at Kings X in the 60's with a maroon Mk1 brake but then I may have had too much butterscotch that day. It has been mentioned elsewhere that the Chocolate and cream WR full brakes left the region at their peril!
On the subject I still haven't taken my Hornby Belle (umber and cream) out of its box yet!
Jerry
Quote from: RailGooner on March 03, 2017, 10:41:09 AM
I think Hornby lost a lot a money on the Arnold Brighton Belle Pullman. Production was staggered, and the first batch sold so poorly they pulled it. At the time I thought it was a rather large toe to dip in the water. Anyway, they seem to have decided these waters are too cold! It's now two and a half years since that release and not even rumours of further releases. IMHO, I'll never see another UK outline release in British N Scale from Hornby. No, not in my lifetime. :'(
I'm not so sure that is correct (nor am I so pessimistic). My understanding is that the first batch sold extremely well and quickly, but that Hornby rushed out a second batch and discovered the lack of depth to the N gauge market.
Cheers, Mike
Quote from: red_death on March 03, 2017, 03:00:07 PM
Quote from: RailGooner on March 03, 2017, 10:41:09 AM
I think Hornby lost a lot a money on the Arnold Brighton Belle Pullman. Production was staggered, and the first batch sold so poorly they pulled it. At the time I thought it was a rather large toe to dip in the water. Anyway, they seem to have decided these waters are too cold! It's now two and a half years since that release and not even rumours of further releases. IMHO, I'll never see another UK outline release in British N Scale from Hornby. No, not in my lifetime. :'(
I'm not so sure that is correct (nor am I so pessimistic). My understanding is that the first batch sold extremely well and quickly, but that Hornby rushed out a second batch and discovered the lack of depth to the N gauge market.
Cheers, Mike
Thanks Mike. I was unsure of the accuracy of my first two sentences, and too lazy to check. :thumbsdown: I'm grateful for your more accurate post. :thumbsup:
I have a few of the old Farish ones, I'm hoping to use them as camping coaches on my layout as there were Six of them in the South siding at Marazion from about 1934 onwards being used as such, according to research so far one of them was a 12 wheeler Pullman, I've managed to find the names of 4 of them inc the 12 wheeler, I think I'll be detailing them as necessary as I doubt if I would be able to afford 'upgraded' ones although I suspect they would be entirely lovely! :(
Quote from: red_death on March 03, 2017, 03:00:07 PM
Quote from: RailGooner on March 03, 2017, 10:41:09 AM
I think Hornby lost a lot a money on the Arnold Brighton Belle Pullman. Production was staggered, and the first batch sold so poorly they pulled it. At the time I thought it was a rather large toe to dip in the water. Anyway, they seem to have decided these waters are too cold! It's now two and a half years since that release and not even rumours of further releases. IMHO, I'll never see another UK outline release in British N Scale from Hornby. No, not in my lifetime. :'(
I'm not so sure that is correct (nor am I so pessimistic). My understanding is that the first batch sold extremely well and quickly, but that Hornby rushed out a second batch and discovered the lack of depth to the N gauge market.
Cheers, Mike
My understanding is they produced a large (relative to other manufacturers) initial batch with the same quantity in each of Blue/Grey and Umber/Cream liveries. These all sold out very quickly.
They then followed up with a second batch of a similar quantity and again with equal split between the two liveries - this was the mistake... Of this second batch, the Umber/Cream ones sold out not quite as quickly as the first batch but in a reasonable time. The Blue/Grey ones hung around in the retailers for much longer and indeed there may even still be the odd one available.
With Hindsight, they were quite correct to do the model, and the quick second batch of Umber/Cream (they might even have shifted a smaller third run), but should have held off rerunning the less popular Blue/grey model for a while.
Kernow's newsletter today showed the blue/grey version at £159.99
Interesting, if a little sad from my point of view.... I hanker ed after the brown one as soon as it came out, but put it in the 'I'll get it later ' basket..... :'(
Quote from: Bealman on March 03, 2017, 09:58:22 PM
Interesting, if a little sad from my point of view.... I hanker ed after the brown one as soon as it came out, but put it in the 'I'll get it later ' basket..... :'(
Me too, George, but what put me off were the reports about once coupled up having to leave it coupled up on the layout. I just hope the Pendolino won't be the same headache.
Quote from: PLD on March 03, 2017, 07:53:20 PM
The Blue/Grey ones hung around in the retailers for much longer and indeed there may even still be the odd one available.
@escafeld (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=5876)
Sorry, I was just showing it was available not recommending the price as being good.
Quote from: newportnobby on March 03, 2017, 10:09:16 PM
.. what put me off were the reports about once coupled up having to leave it coupled up on the layout. ...
I'm pleased to be able to say such reports were/are false NN. Mine are all back in their boxes. Unboxed upon receipt, drooled all over, dried, coupled, run-in, uncoupled, drooled all over some more, dried again, and re-boxed.
The couplings also connect each car electrically, and the connection is quite solid/secure. They need a bit more care and commitment - a fair bit of force is required when coupling/uncoupling. Yes, they are a little bit more of a faff than rapido couplers. No, they are nothing like as difficult as my 20 car Eurostar. My big clumsy hands manage without damaging them, so they can't be that bad.
Quote from: escafeld on March 03, 2017, 10:06:14 PM
Quote from: newportnobby on March 03, 2017, 09:51:42 PM
Kernow's newsletter today showed the blue/grey version at £159.99
Rails have it at £139.50
https://railsofsheffield.com/br-class-403-brighton-belle-pullman-5-car-train-pack-1969-hn3002-arnold-JJJA27580.aspx
Hornby was flogging them for £99 a couple of years ago.
I have the proper liveried Brighton Belle in its boxes and they have never been opened... Willing to exchange for a BLUE one.... Sorry the BLUE PULLMAN!!!
:D :D
Not a chance, Jerry :no:
The exchange rate is at least 2 x BBs for 1 x BP :P
there is an 8 page article on Pullmans in April's Model Rail, out today.
Seems unfair to close this thread before mentioning that Revoloution are now in the process of producing some K Class pullmans, and that farish have eventually done a Mk1 Pullman brake, initially difficult to obtain but now available to all.
Was hoping to find some comment on an Arnold OE Pullman (not BB) which has found its way onto my ER metals (via a train ferry? with a French dignitary on board) supposedly 1:160 but looks fine with its 1;148 running mates...
Quote from: class8mikado on November 07, 2024, 03:51:59 PMSeems unfair to close this thread before mentioning that Revoloution are now in the process of producing some K Class pullmans, and that farish have eventually done a Mk1 Pullman brake, initially difficult to obtain but now available to all.
Was hoping to find some comment on an Arnold OE Pullman (not BB) which has found its way onto my ER metals (via a train ferry? with a French dignitary on board) supposedly 1:160 but looks fine with its 1;148 running mates...
There is actually no such thing as a Mark 1 (Metro Cammell) Pullman Brake, what Farish have produced is a "standard" Mk1 brake coach that was repainted into a faux pullman livery during the preservation era. Back in BR days they would as I understand it typically run with a maroon Mk 1 BG or similar.
Quote from: Roy L S on November 07, 2024, 03:57:40 PMQuote from: class8mikado on November 07, 2024, 03:51:59 PMSeems unfair to close this thread before mentioning that Revoloution are now in the process of producing some K Class pullmans, and that farish have eventually done a Mk1 Pullman brake, initially difficult to obtain but now available to all.
Was hoping to find some comment on an Arnold OE Pullman (not BB) which has found its way onto my ER metals (via a train ferry? with a French dignitary on board) supposedly 1:160 but looks fine with its 1;148 running mates...
There is actually no such thing as a Mark 1 (Metro Cammell) Pullman Brake, what Farish have produced is a "standard" Mk1 brake coach that was repainted into a faux pullman livery during the preservation era. Back in BR days they would as I understand it typically run with a maroon Mk 1 BG or similar.
Yes, car 355 and car 356 done by the collectors club were part of the SLOA pullman set used on railtours in the 1980's, its a train I did some research into to model and I even managed to get the right coaches for the set.
1960's Pullmans used either an original pullman brake or Mark1 BG so hopefully the K Pullman from Revolution will be available on its own for those who want just a brake for their sets
Quote from: eddief83 on November 07, 2024, 05:16:22 PM1960's Pullmans used either an original pullman brake or Mark1 BG so hopefully the K Pullman from Revolution will be available on its own for those who want just a brake for their sets
Or at least they might offer a pair of K-type brake seconds, to top and tail four Farish Mk1 firsts - the precise formation of the 1960 Master Cutler Pullman, when Mk 1s were introduced to replace the non-brake Ks. I believe that some of the K-type brake seconds were converted from other K-types to compensate for the absence of Mk1 pullman brakes.
:)
Quote from: Stuart Down Under on November 07, 2024, 10:13:30 PMQuote from: eddief83 on November 07, 2024, 05:16:22 PM1960's Pullmans used either an original pullman brake or Mark1 BG so hopefully the K Pullman from Revolution will be available on its own for those who want just a brake for their sets
Or at least they might offer a pair of K-type brake seconds, to top and tail four Farish Mk1 firsts - the precise formation of the 1960 Master Cutler Pullman, when Mk 1s were introduced to replace the non-brake Ks. I believe that some of the K-type brake seconds were converted from other K-types to compensate for the absence of Mk1 pullman brakes.
:)
I am happy to be corrected but I don't think that as yet Revolution have shared their thoughts on how they might package these coaches, but I would assume "packs" of some kind. It is to be hoped that Revolution Trains have identified the "opportunity" and might either sell Brake coaches individually or as pairs to complement the Farish Metro Cammell ones in such trains.
Pricing for the Ks is yet obviously an unknown an far too early in the process for this to be confirmed, I would expect that it will to some extent depend on the final spec that is decided on, but as we have already been told that it will be high as befits a Pullman coach, I would be expecting something some way above (say) a Farish Mk 1's RRP. This could though (hopefully) mean that such a small pack of two brakes would be seen as an "affordable" option and thus make commercial sense.
Time will tell...
Roy