Hi all,
Been away for a while. Left the old life. New Lady, getting married next year :D
Moved in to her large house that has a decent loft space I can use. Full of junk at the moment but plans are afoot to clear.
So all my stock is boxed up waiting for me to get a layout built. I have quite a few old locos and a lot of new style ones too with DCC slots. Period is LMS/LNER but also I like BR Blue. So I plan if possible to build the layout where I can swap out some buildings etc so I can run either period.
My main dilemma is to go DCC or DC as I normally do. I have read a lot, especially the myth about easy wiring for DCC and nightmare for DC. I get DCC is plug and play at basic level, but you still need to wire for points/signals/lights etc etc if they are not to be manual. Same goes for any detection/automation.
Also the ludicrous cost of sound chips puts me off. I would only use those on the BR Diesels if I went DCC anyway. If not using sound what really are the benefits? So I just cant decide what to do...
Any thoughts chaps?
Cheers,
Cudders
Each to their own and I have a suspicion there will be others putting equally vociferous arguments, but here's my two penn'orth.
I get the impression that you may be thinking along the lines of a fairly substantial layout - if this is so then I would defintely go for DCC. A substantial layout with "conventional" control would need loads of isolating sections etc .....with DCC it's a "fairly" simple case of making sure that pointwork is properly insulated and then likewise making sure that all track sections have a proper power feed (not relying on the point blades to switch power etc).
Add to that the lights staying on irrespective of what the loco is doing, the chance to properly mimic "double heading" and what have you, then it's a no-brainer for me.
For your older locos that are not so easy to "chip", maybe make a small and independent branch line and run that on conventional control ? Could also be used as a programming / test track.........
Congrats on the loft space cudders (and the forthcoming nuptials, of course). Sounds like a great plan koyli. Particularly like the idea for the branch-line programming track that will also use the non-DCC-ready engines.
My view, I've been running DC for over 40 years, it ain't broke, why fix it? Cost of chipping a lot of locos plus necessary change of controller, climbing the learning curve.
Just think how much more rolling stock you can buy with the money that would be spent on chips. As for sound, just try running a layout on the stand next to some eejit with permanent sound of a diseasel just ticking over all day, sends ya to sleep after the first hour or two. Plus in N gauge getting a speaker of sufficient size to ADEQUATELY produce realistic bass sounds without tinny overtones , they claim to be able to do it, but I've not heard any yet.
Although I am definately in the DCC camp I am most definately not in the sound decoder one because of it's high cost and to my mind very irritating assault on my ears , I do however use sound but in a different way with 4 small speakers located at baseboard corners ( beneath) a small chinese 8 Watt amplifier that has USB SD card and Auxillary ( MP3 player) slots I get a sound I can tune using "Audacity" and the heap of free sound files available on the net .
Just happy to hear you are still with us, Cudders, and congrats on your forthcoming marriage :beers:
I know half of naff all about DCC so will stay out of that one.
If it's financially viable defiantly go DCC. It makes a massive enjoyment to running the layout. Press a couple of buttons and operate the points the same way with the loco too. Well worth the money in my opinion.
Sound still personally is still quite expensive but I am currently changing my layout to DCC just so much more enjoyable to operate
For sound check out a post on the N Gauge Forum on Facebook of a Class 25 with sound on my layout sounds just right no tinging just sounds at the right bass level. I would link it now but work's block it :(
It's horses for courses and you'll get a 50:50 split on this or any other forum. (Probably not on the DCC forum :D)
I went DCC about a year ago. Back then I could buy non sound Zimo decoders in the US for around 20 pounds, not cheap, but also not breaking the bank.
I would not go back to DC. My fiddle yard can hold multiple diesels on the same track without having lots of small sections.
My layout is modern image, so just being able to have lights on all the time on loco's is a great benefit of DCC
Double heading is really easy with my Roco Z21 system (a little harder with other systems).
My first sound shipped trains will, hopefully, arrive next year with the Pendolinos I have on order.
Wiring can be a lot simpler with DCC.
For example, my fiddle yard has 8 turnouts, that's 16 wires (2 per point) running from my old DC 'command station' all down the layout to the yard.
With DCC I use an NCE Switch8 to control the points. This is mounted right next to the fiddle yard. Now I have a single pair of wires running the length of the layout.
If you are going to wire your points with DCC control then there will be less wiring.
I also use a Hex Frog Juicer to deal with polarity switching on two diagonal crossings and a single track reverse loop. The Frog Juicer is basically an electronic polarity detection circuit and switch, you can get them as singles, or 4's or 6's.
But as Dorset Bob has said if DC works for you then why fix it?
Regards,
John P
I went dcc when doing OO and have stuck with it when i went back to N. For big complicated layouts, it can become just as complicated in DCC as it is with isolating sections in analogue. If you think you can let several trains run without individual control (maybe round and around and then do some shunting with a third train) then dcc can be more simple. In practice most of us will have one train on automatic with another we are controlling (it's a mental safety thing). So perhaps the question should be what will I actually do on the layout and then choose the simplest solution to achieve it. Bigger space does not necessarily mean complex (if you want realistic appearance) track and train movement. Think first about the layout and then choose the control method.
I suppose my solution has been based upon an out and about layout with a return loop. This needed a reverse loop controller in DCC as a fit and forget verses a dpdt switch with a stop of the train in analogue. This was (for me) the deciding factor for dcc.
It's up to you of course, both work !
Hi all,
Many thanks for the replies. Very interesting.
Quote from: koyli55002 on December 14, 2016, 01:40:14 PM
I get the impression that you may be thinking along the lines of a fairly substantial layout - if this is so then I would defintely go for DCC. A substantial layout with "conventional" control would need loads of isolating sections etc .....with DCC it's a "fairly" simple case of making sure that pointwork is properly insulated and then likewise making sure that all track sections have a proper power feed (not relying on the point blades to switch power etc).
Add to that the lights staying on irrespective of what the loco is doing, the chance to properly mimic "double heading" and what have you, then it's a no-brainer for me.
For your older locos that are not so easy to "chip", maybe make a small and independent branch line and run that on conventional control ? Could also be used as a programming / test track.........
Yes it will be a decent size. Hoping for two or four main lines plus branch. I hadn't thought of just running the branch as DC. Not a bad idea as a lot of my smaller locos are kit built. I just love my three Graham Hughes J50's :heart2:
Quote from: Mustermark on December 14, 2016, 01:54:25 PM
Congrats on the loft space cudders (and the forthcoming nuptials, of course). Sounds like a great plan koyli. Particularly like the idea for the branch-line programming track that will also use the non-DCC-ready engines.
Thanks mate. :D
Quote from: newportnobby on December 14, 2016, 03:36:14 PM
Just happy to hear you are still with us, Cudders, and congrats on your forthcoming marriage :beers:
I know half of naff all about DCC so will stay out of that one.
Thanks pal. It's good to be back. I keep looking at my stock and puting in back. I have that Ngauge problem. I wonder is there is a support group. Perhaps I should lie down ::)
So lots to think about still. I intend at some point to have some automatic control or at least planned routes. That's later I think.
I have looked at the NCE Powercab which is not too badly priced. Maybe I could start with that and always sell on if it's not for me.? :hmmm:
Thanks again guys.
Cudders
Just to confuse the issue, I run both DC and DCC on the same layout, just not at the same time. Put a socket on the layout and a plug onto your controller and you can swap over from one to the other. All my new locos are DCC, but I can quite happily run my old Poole stock.
Welcome back, mate, and all the best for your upcoming wedding. :beers:
Like NewportNobby, I'll stay out of the discussion as my old layout is still stuck with DC. If I was starting afresh though, I, like youself, would be giving DCC some consideration.
Quote from: Malc on December 14, 2016, 09:39:44 PM
Just to confuse the issue, I run both DC and DCC on the same layout, just not at the same time. Put a socket on the layout and a plug onto your controller and you can swap over from one to the other. All my new locos are DCC, but I can quite happily run my old Poole stock.
I've done the same - I managed to get a nicely scenic model of Calne (8' length) second hand. As it came, it was wired for DC with a load of isolating sections and twin controller for the two lines.
Matter of fact, it also came with Insulfrog points as well .......
Changed the Insulfrogs for Electrofrogs to improve the slow speed running (essential for a branch line, no ?)
Fitted plug and socket arrangement to the power feed inputs and can change from DC to DCC simply by changing one plug.
MOST of the time, though, I run it DCC.
Having spent a large part of the summer converting the school model layout to DCC I feel that the improved slow running alone would make it worth while if starting from scratch but don't think it worth it if you have a lot of locos to convert. The school layout is OO so plenty of room for the extraneous electrical gubbins and speakers.
With regard to slow running, I brought one loco off shed and stopped it in a loop, didn't notice it wasn't completely switched off, was on speed setting 1 or 2. After rummaging under the board looking for some suitable stock I found it was on the main line. I had to watch it for several minutes to see that it was still actually moving! Whereas those locos not converted and running on DC seem to take off like scalded cats, virtually impossible to get anything like a realistic start. I presume its because with DC one has to increase the voltage until the train moves, but when it does the motor needs less power to keep it turning, but with DCC the full operating voltage is available all the time and the chip regulates the system from within.
Hi Cudders,
I don't think when you consider wiring that DC or DCC are much different, they can both be simple or complicated (sections in DC or power districts in DCC), it's down to how you want to run the layout you're planning.
There's the Yorkshire Area Group of the N Gauge Society which meets in York two Saturdays a month - http://yorkshirengauge.org.uk (http://yorkshirengauge.org.uk). Always plenty of advice available if you need any and you could have a go with DCC on the clubs layouts to see if it suits. Plenty of other groups around you too, Leeds, Bradford and Wakefield to name a few.
Cheers, Mark.
DCC for my money, although I'm not convinced on the merits of DCC point control unless you plan to use a PC for automation.