Had a read of the NGS Journal's supplement on the first 50 years of N-gauge modelling. Made me wonder about the selected highlights. So, NGF, what particular models stand out as either modern must-haves or simply classic models of their time?
I'm going to start with two suggestions:
Number 1, the Peco 'Jubilee' as a classic model. Well made and still looks good, despite its age.
Number 2, a modern must-have, would be the Dapol china clay tanks; specifically, the weathered ones. They show just how much detail can be fitted to 2mm scale models these days, and the weathering is so far beyond "a bit of air-brushed dirt" as to render each of them pretty much unique.
Anyone else feel like sharing their thoughts on this?
Cheers, NeMo
I would say the entry of Dapol into the N gauge market.
Not that I believe their locos are better than Farish, but the sheer fact of them being there made others sit up and realise they had to 'up their game'.
I have to say the quality/detail of the Dapol Collett coaches blew me away and I just knew I had to have some.
The Farish Blue Pullman was a first for having 2 power cars balanced and was such a thing of beauty I bet loads of folks bought one without, like me, being able to really justify one in the location I model.
The rise of DCC is something I've not taken to but must rank very highly with an awful lot of others.
Minitrix Gresleys were the dogs biscuits in their day.
The dapol 14xx, so tiny a wee marvel even if it can barely pull an autotrailer.
The Blue thing I agree if only Mrs "H" didn't know how much they cost.
The Hornby Brighton Belle in umber and cream, I like it but am frightened to take it out of its box.
Jerry
Are we restricting this to UK outline?
Lima Deltic anyone? :hmmm:
Seriously though, I agree with NeMo about the Dapol "silver" bullets. I've got five myself and they really look the business.
Quote from: Dorsetmike on November 25, 2016, 05:05:46 PM
Are we restricting this to UK outline?
Depends. If it degenerates into *yet another* "this US model was 30 years ahead of anything sold in the UK" thread, then maybe yes, it should be! Otherwise nope, it's just for fun @Dorsetmike (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=2855) -- feel free to post whatever thoughts you have!
Cheers, NeMo
I'll say the Revolution TEAs rival the Silver Bullets for detail. The weathering on the Silver Bullets is very good, wish I'd bought more when I've seen them cheap at various intervals.
Surely CJM models should be up there, I was looking at a pair of 50s a friend owns last week, and they are utterly stunning. As they should be for the price, mind!
I'm going to vote for the hopelessly inaccurate mid-80's Farish Western. It was totally eclipsed by the fabulous Dapol Western a few years ago, but the old Farish one I bought in 1989 is what got me into N gauge and started my obsession collection. Just my two cents, just for fun.
Quote from: njee20 on November 25, 2016, 05:45:38 PM
I'll say the Revolution TEAs rival the Silver Bullets for detail.
Not too familiar with these models! But they're certainly a landmark of sorts, given the way they were financed and produced.
Quote from: njee20 on November 25, 2016, 05:45:38 PM
The weathering on the Silver Bullets is very good, wish I'd bought more when I've seen them cheap at various intervals.
Definitely! I've got half a dozen, and while I don't use them much, they really are beautiful. You do see them secondhand from time to time.
Quote from: njee20 on November 25, 2016, 05:45:38 PM
Surely CJM models should be up there, I was looking at a pair of 50s a friend owns last week, and they are utterly stunning. As they should be for the price, mind!
See, I'd suggest that the influence that CJM models have had on the hobby is nil. I'd contrast that with Mercig, another equally high-end bespoke supplier. But whereas CJM seems never to have worked with Dapol or Farish, Mercig has influenced those mainstream manufacturers by providing templates from which low-cost weathering could be based. I do believe Dapol have used Mercig models, and DJ Models plan to do so in the future.
Cheers, NeMo
For me the Minitrix Class 42. A bit battered now but a great runner. I have two.
Difficult one. So many good models out. For me the loco that brought me back into n gauge was the Farish 45. Blue Pullman is stunning, would love one but cannot justify it!
Quote from: NeMo
See, I'd suggest that the influence that CJM models have had on the hobby is nil. I'd contrast that with Mercig, another equally high-end bespoke supplier. But whereas CJM seems never to have worked with Dapol or Farish, Mercig has influenced those mainstream manufacturers by providing templates from which low-cost weathering could be based. I do believe Dapol have used Mercig models, and DJ Models plan to do so in the future.
Cheers, NeMo
You didn't say most influential though! Ben and Mike of Revolution have said how helpful Chris Marchant has been to them, and I believe others have used him as a source of reference previously. I'd say he's probably been far more influential for the RTR market than Mercig, as good as Ian's work is.
But to my point, many (albeit not all) of Chris's models are utterly unparalleled. Indeed I'd say his weathering is better than Mercig, and he builds the model too!
I'm struggling to think of anything Dapol or Farish loco-wise which is really exceptional. The Farish 60 is a great model, but I'm not wholly sure it is anything exceptional.
:)I agree with Nemo that Peco's Jubilee is a real beauty. I've got one myself, bought off Ebay a few years ago, and it's a brilliant smooth runner still. When I enquired at Peco as to when my model - "Furious" - was built they said it was probably 1980-82. So that makes it around 35 years old!
I also have two Minitrix Flying Scotsman locos, one in LNER green livery, the other in BR mode, dark green. Both splendid runners - but not at the same time, mind!
Congratulations to the N-Gauge Society on their 50th anniversary celebration magazines, great pictures and great reading.
Quote from: njee20 on November 25, 2016, 06:39:30 PM
Ben and Mike of Revolution have said how helpful Chris Marchant has been to them, and I believe others have used him as a source of reference previously. I'd say he's probably been far more influential for the RTR market than Mercig, as good as Ian's work is.
I concede my point then!
Quote from: njee20 on November 25, 2016, 06:39:30 PM
But to my point, many (albeit not all) of Chris's models are utterly unparalleled. Indeed I'd say his weathering is better than Mercig, and he builds the model too!
In which case a really well-made scratch-build or kit would make the list, but my idea with this thread was to look at the stuff that modellers can afford to buy on regular budgets; in other words, the mainstream stuff.
Quote from: njee20 on November 25, 2016, 06:39:30 PM
I'm struggling to think of anything Dapol or Farish loco-wise which is really exceptional. The Farish 60 is a great model, but I'm not wholly sure it is anything exceptional.
Why not? Looking at, say, the Dapol 'Terrier' you have a tiny, tiny little loco that works well and has a surprisingly high level of detailing, even if it isn't a precise replica. For the price, I'd say it absolutely is exceptional. On the Farish side, others have already mentioned the Blue Pullman units and the prototype 'Deltic' as being stand-out models of recent years.
I'm really interested in stuff from previous decades too. @Mustermark (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=103) has mentioned the Farish 'Western', and while it's dated, I do remember being totally in love with it when it surfaced in the mid-80s. Didn't model N back then; indeed, was growing out of my 'train' phase around about then, but looking back I remember vividly being impressed by the one I saw at the Harrow Model Shop. Whether or not it actually was an exceptional model I shall leave to others to decide, but by my reckoning, the Peco 'Jubilee' has aged a lot better.
Cheers, NeMo
The Fleischmann class 218 diesel. Has been around for decades, with countless produced. Back in the 70s and 80s, many British N gauge layouts had at least one; probably because modellers wanted to have at least one loco that was reliable, powerful and actually looked like it's prototype.
Others have mentioned the model that got them back into N gauge and in my case it was the NGS Inspection Saloon. A really lovely model, as are all the Farish Mk1s.
The Peco Jubilee and the Farish Blue Pullman. :beers:
I have a LMS inspection saloon it is a nice model. Here is a pic of the oldest coach I have, it looks like the one in the ngs 50year magazine. It is a simple 4 wheel coach in teak but it is not stamped gf.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/45/1784-251116204532.jpeg)
QuoteWhy not? Looking at, say, the Dapol 'Terrier' you have a tiny, tiny little loco that works well and has a surprisingly high level of detailing, even if it isn't a precise replica. For the price, I'd say it absolutely is exceptional. On the Farish side, others have already mentioned the Blue Pullman units and the prototype 'Deltic' as being stand-out models of recent years
Wasn't seeking to be antagonistic, they both do excellent models, I just can't think of anything that truly stands out as exceptional. We obviously model very different eras, so have different benchmarks!
I suspect most people on here have at least 5 locos, so they could have something from CJM ;)
Don't get me wrong, I don't, because they're just too expensive, but they are breathtaking models, and to compare to a scratch built model is a bit odd, they're RTR, just sold in very small quantities.
In the mid 90s it was the Union Mills J39 that persuaded me back into N Gauge modelling. At that time it was a seriously good model which performed superbly.
In more recent times the Farish B1 and the later coreless motor loco drive models lifted the bar amazingly, pick of the bunch for me has to be the Ivatt 2MT Mogul.
Roy
Another call out for the Peco Jubillee and the Blue Pullman. I would also throw in something from Hornby Minitrix - either the indestructible Warship or the Mark 1 coaches, which were way ahead of their time...
Oh, the Peco Jubilee. In a league all of it's own. In it's day and for many years after a loco of the utmost quality in every respect. Even now it holds it's own. I have two BR green ones which happily work turn and turn about with more modern models. they run reliably smoothly and pull prototypical loads. If well looked after they are pretty much bullet proof.
Yep, I stand corrected. For steam locos at least, it has passed the test of time and proved itself. That has to be the one.
Roy
There was a very similar thread just over a year ago... :searchingsign:
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=28590.0 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=28590.0)
I think the only real addition to the list since then is the Revolution Tankers. - The first product to market from a new manufacturer by a new method of funding...
Quote from: PLD on November 25, 2016, 11:54:27 PM
There was a very similar thread just over a year ago... :searchingsign:
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=28590.0 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=28590.0)
I think the only real addition to the list since then is the Revolution Tankers. - The first product to market from a new manufacturer by a new method of funding...
And in that thread I suggested the Fleischmann diesel...for pretty much the same reasons.
Quote from: Mito on November 25, 2016, 06:13:40 PM
For me the Minitrix Class 42. A bit battered now but a great runner. I have two.
Only two? get them reworked they are great my fleet stands at ten!!!!
The indestructable class 27 and 42 from minitrix every one has one not particularly accurate but will pull anything and never breakdown
Quote from: PLD on November 25, 2016, 11:54:27 PM
There was a very similar thread just over a year ago... :searchingsign:
Nope. Don't remember threads from a year ago I'm afraid (too much else in my life for that) and this is, after all, just for fun. If it isn't fun for you, @PLD (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=647), then sorry to have wasted your time and for any distress caused.
Cheers, NeMo
The title of the thread says exactly that. Just for fun. ;)
Controversial choice maybe - the Dapol class 73. Because (as previously said) it, along with the 14xx, marked the beginning of proper competition in modern British N, also it's one of my favourite prototypes, and, even if the mechanism can be a bit wobbly, it was a huge step up in terms of moulding and small detail.
I'd also highly rate the latest generation of Farish MK1's
Also, to praise all manufacturers a bit, the Peco 4 wheel private owner wagons range, just for being so varied and attractive.
And (I'll say it before anyone else does) Kato Unitrack :)
Quote from: TylerB on November 26, 2016, 08:51:24 AM
Controversial choice maybe - the Dapol class 73. Because (as previously said) it marked the beginning of proper competition in modern British N, also it's one of my favourite prototypes, and, even if the mechanism can be a bit wobbly, it was a huge step up in terms of moulding and small detail.
I think you sum up Dapol completely with the Class 73! On the one hand, some serious competition spurred Farish into better things. Competition is good. But on the other hand, the Dapol Class 73 epitomises the company for me: bodywork often spot-on or at worst merely very good with a few minor compromises only someone very familiar with the prototype would spot. But the mechanisms they use are, might we say, inconsistent in quality and reliability? Get a good one and you're fine, but rather too many duff ones out there to make buying Dapol models completely plain sailing.
Quote from: TylerB on November 26, 2016, 08:51:24 AM
Also, to praise all manufacturers a bit, the Peco Wonderful Wagons range, just for being so varied and attractive.
I very nearly kicked off this thread with the Peco wagon kits. I think you're right that the Peco RTR wagons are attractive and seem to be very modestly priced compared to the competition. But I was thinking about the kits specifically. Very simple to put together, making them a great way to get anyone into the hand-crafting side of the hobby without much (any?) risk of failure and disappointment. Either way @TylerB (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=4985), good call!
Cheers, NeMo
Quote from: TylerB on November 26, 2016, 08:51:24 AM
I'd also highly rate the latest generation of Farish MK1's
Indeed, these are utterly lovely models.
This is interesting stuff. Younger modellers see the recent (as in last 10 years or so) as milestone models, whereas we old fogeys look with nostalgia on the likes of Peco Jubilee's.
Quote from: Bealman on November 26, 2016, 10:16:53 AM
This is interesting stuff. Younger modellers see the recent (as in last 10 years or so) as milestone models, whereas we old fogeys look with nostalgia on the likes of Peco Jubilee's.
I don't think the two are mutually exclusive! Hence my appreciation of the Dapol china clay tanks as well as the Peco 'Jubilee'.
For what it's worth @Bealman (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=255), what I think sets the 'Jubilee' apart is that 30+ years after its release, it still looks good enough to run alongside modern stock. Certainly it lacks some of the delicate detailing of the modern Farish 'Jubilee' but all the proportions are right and the mechanism runs well.
Equivalent vintage Lima stuff is generally horrible all round; Farish stuff from the same era tends to have okay proportions and detailing but suffer from noisy mechanisms. Minitrix is a mixed bag I feel. The A3 Pacific and the teak coaches are excellent, but something like the 'Warship' really looks clunky today, and while I like the 9F, it's severely compromised.
In some ways my question is about which products got that compromise between cost, fidelity and reliability right -- at their time, and perhaps even by modern standards!
Cheers, NeMo
Quote from: Bealman on November 26, 2016, 10:16:53 AM
This is interesting stuff. Younger modellers see the recent (as in last 10 years or so) as milestone models, whereas we old fogeys look with nostalgia on the likes of Peco Jubilee's.
Having only had anything to do with N gauge for the last 2~3 years I'm working hard on building up nostalgia :P
Anyway here's a Significantly Good Japanese model from 1979 by a company called Eidai, who went bankrupt after a year or two - significant because it is pretty damn good for that time, only 3 years previously Tomix launched their N gauge with a model of the same loco (an ED75 for anyone taking notes) which was much more toylike and primitive. In fact when I got this one I was so surprised how good it was I double-checked I hadn't received something much more recent from Tomix or Kato by mistake.
(https://c8.staticflickr.com/9/8614/29523847783_65e8eca576_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/LYVrmk)
eidai-ed75 (https://flic.kr/p/LYVrmk) by Rail Squid (https://www.flickr.com/photos/129145651@N06/), on Flickr(Only cost about a tenner as well...)
My Jubilee is currently in the UK, being worked on by one of our members! It hit the floor a couple of times in it's early years :-[
That is indeed a good looking loco, Squiddy! :thumbsup:
Apart from the Peco Jubilee, I have three Poole Farish "crabs" which I have kept for years because they still run very well. They also have, in my opinion, very fine valve gear. I've sold off most of my Poole Farish steam locos but have hung on to these.
Yes, they were quite nice models in their day.
Quote from: silly moo on November 26, 2016, 04:42:08 PM
Apart from the Peco Jubilee, I have three Poole Farish "crabs" which I have kept for years because they still run very well. They also have, in my opinion, very fine valve gear. I've sold off most of my Poole Farish steam locos but have hung on to these.
A Poole Farish Crab was the first N gauge steam loco I bought. It was a bit battered and needed some TLC but now runs very well. If I ever had to sell my N gauge stuff it would be the last one to go.
Think I partipated in this convo last year, but will chip in again.
Give a shout to the outside frame 08 from Farish. It arrived out of the blue at a time when many thought such a mechanism wasn't possible in N. It's also the model that, whilst not quite "getting me back into" N gauge (never left!), it did persuade me that I needed a layout here in Bristol asap.
Also a brief mention to the Dapol 58. I have been lucky with all my Dapol locos, and the slow speed running of the 58 is great.
Skyline2uk
I agree with NeMo's mention of the Dapol Terrier and the Deltic prototype earlier on in the topic, they along with the Dapol Q1 were locos I just had to have.
I was amazed that Dapol decided to make the Terrier, I didn't think we'd ever see them in N. I know that Marklin makes tiny Z scale locos but I think making a loco that small is quite an achievement.
...little bit different...
..the Lyddle End...building series!!!
Quote from: fisherman on November 27, 2016, 04:30:53 PM
...little bit different...
..the Lyddle End...building series!!!
Sadly missed :'(
As an icon I'd be going for the Kato SNCF TGV of the very first generation. Released in 1983 just after the full size trains came in to service. A full 10 car train available (in two sets) at release. Well detailed bodies with full interior detail in all the trailer cars. Smooth, powerful mechanism, with superb running in both directions. Fine wheel profile but seems to stay on the track whatever the speed or tightness of the curve. Cannot remember mine derailing ever in 33 years. Cost me about £85 back then for the full 10 cars.
Of course SNCF and their partners went on to develop a lot of different variants over the years most of which are in the Kato range or coming soonish.
I would like to suggest the Farish Jubilee for the top 50.
I think this was the 2nd all-new Farish steam loco after the takeover of Farish by Bachmann. The Royal Scot and the Black 5 followed on based on the same "platform".
Maybe we should also consider the Farish V2, which was the first all-new steam loco after the takeover ? It didn't sell well due to the "skirt" under the boiler but I regret not having bought one and I would buy one today if they were reissued.
Best regards,
Joe
I Love the early Farish stuff but for me the Minitrix Scotsman and Britannia built with mechanics like an early Volkswagen are I guess my fetish! :-[
I entered British N gauge only 6 years ago. But I started N gauge in general when I was a child.
At that time I was much impressed by 2 locomotives and a set of coaches:
- Arnold Crocodile Ce 6/8 (ref. 2468)
- Minitrix 0-4-0T PtL 2/2 (ref. 11087)
- Arnold Rheingold coaches with interior details and lighting (ref. 0142)
In British N, I started with a Graham Farish class 37 and new Mk1 coaches. I was also impressed by the high level of details and the reasonable price.
Now at the end of 2016, the key models for me are:
- Union Mills Adams, which brought me back to steam locomotives
- Dapol Terrier
- REE Modèles with its tank cars (the upcoming DEV and postal coaches seem so promising!)
- Kato CIWL set
After considering it for a few days, here is my late reply. I might be missing some obvious ones, but I am only mentioning items I actually own.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/45/5537-271116182234.jpeg)
-The Minitrix 42. Recently acquired one second hand, thought of mentioning it before all those other posts about it. I was amazed to read that it actually dated back to 1970. This would probably make it the first ever realistic and reliable British diesels in N. I wonder if it helped that the prototype was actually based on a German design in real life.
-Farish 94xx pannier tank. Farish'es second steam locomotive in N, but one of their longest lived. The body casting perfectly brings out the unusual taper boiler on top, and is surprisingly effective underneath, with a surprising amount of daylight and splashers well placed to hide the worm gear. The chassis might have been the most versatile ever produced, powering thousands of kits. I think some have wondered why Farish chose one of the most obscure pannier tanks, but I suspect the answer might lie in the fact that it was the largest. Many other models of the time were stretched to fit the mechanisms, but it was possible to produce an authentic 94xx without a stretch, allowing it to fulfil the roles of the generic pannier tank for the average customer and an authentic model in its own right. Disclaimer; this is all conjecture on my part.
-Peco 10 foot and 15 foot 'Quality Line' wagons. Not the most detailed of wagons, but the most affordable and the most versatile, able to provide a ready to run rake on a budget, or provide an easy entry into kit building. Interestingly, it seems that keeping production in this country now makes them cheaper than anything else!
-Farish class 37 refurbished (late 80s model). Now, I know this one was stretched. What makes it a winner in my eyes is that its combination of six axles, pivots designed for tight curves, and narrow bogies allow it to keep running in almost any track conditions. At my last exhibition, I used one I had repainted in West Coast Railway livery as a rescue loco, just like its prototype.
-Farish 4MT (1991 model). The ultimate cast metal body, so good even its most recent successor could not be better in every way.
-New Farish Ivatt 2. The first model to show the level of miniaturisation possible with the coreless motor in the boiler. Running reliability is second only to a diesel. It's also tougher than it looks; mine actually survived having a 1kg camera fall on it. A nearby Oxford Diecast tractor was smashed, but the loco showed no damage at all.
Still, while most of the iconic models have always been locomotives, my real expertise is actually in road vehicles. In that category, there is one clear all time winner:
-the Intertrans 148 MAN truck. Literally the only fully detailed modern image diecast vehicle in British N scale of its time, this sadly missed truck is more detailed even than the latest from Oxford Diecast, including almost full interior detail and a tip up cab with engine. In fact, the detail was superior even to contemporary Farish trains! Does anyone know who really designed and made these models, or why the deal did not survive the Bachman takeover?
Globally I'd like to nominate the Kato E351 Super Azusa - for various reasons I decided to acquire one and being of a skinflint nature opted for the cheapest one available on the local auction site. It turned up today, all 8 cars of it, and the lot number reveals it was produced in 1996, just after the prototype was introduced. Just like the prototype (which runs as an express train on the mountainous Cape gauge DC electric lines westwards from Tokyo) it has a tilting mechanism, and despite being 20 years old it looks like new (though I suspect it hasn't been used much in that time). The power car did sound like a bucket of spanners for a short while but is now running nice and smoothly (not entirely quiet but nowhere near as noisy as some very recent Grafar and Dapol locos I have) and I'm confident it will keep running with nary a split gear nor directional lighting failure.
Oh yes, and it has the Scharfenberg-style close couplings, originally pioneered I believe by Tomix in 1991 with their E253 Narita Express (which I also have), now personally I'm not one to lose sleep over the sight of Rapido couplings but there's less than a 5mm gap between cars and they hold together like the real thing, despite the inevitably unprototypically tight curves.
The Dapol 9f got me into N gauge...
superb model...
spec for an S & D man!