The wishlist poll results have been posted, and it's a pretty mixed bag, just show what happens when you get a group of modellers to tell the manufacturers what they want over the next few years, it's full of quite specific and quite niche stuff.
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/116458-results-the-wishlist-poll-2016/ (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/116458-results-the-wishlist-poll-2016/)
Hi Graham,
That appears to be an address of a file on your computer, maybe?
Quote from: ScottyStitch on November 18, 2016, 09:37:54 AM
Hi Graham,
That appears to be an address of a file on your computer, maybe?
Oh heck :censored: I'll change it LOL
Quote from: Graham Walters on November 18, 2016, 09:32:54 AMThe wishlist poll results have been posted, and it's a pretty mixed bag ...
Well now that a lot of people have put in such an effort we just need the manufacturers to listen and act - quickly. RevolutioN have shown it can be done. B
To save everyone having to download it individually, here is the overall top 50 items.
Votes Item
102 LSWR/SR N15 King Arthur 4-6-0 (30448-30457, 30736-30755, 30763-30806)
100 Class 117/118 Pressed Steel/BRCW 3-car
100 BR Breakdown Crane with Staff & Tool Vans – Cowans Sheldon 75-ton
93 BR Travelling Post Office Vans – POS, POT, BPOT (Mk1 built or converted, 1959-1977)
92 10000 & 10001 LMS Twins
92 Class 120 Swindon Cross-Country 3-car
92 BR Mk2d Air-conditioned Stock (built 1971-2)
91 LMS Stanier 8F 2-8-0 (48000-48775)
90 Class 158 & 159
88 SR Lord Nelson 4-6-0 (30850-30865)
85 BR Standard Class 4 4-6-0 (75000-75079)
80 Tamper – Plasser & Theurer (07-16)
79 SR Merchant Navy – Rebuilt 4-6-2 (35001-35030)
79 BR Mk2b/c Stock (built 1969/70)
75 LSWR/SR S15 Maunsell 4-6-0 (30823-30847)
75 Class 87
75 Class 205 Hampshire/Berkshire (3 H) (1101-1118, 1123-1133)
74 GWR Collett 43xx 2-6-0 (7322-7341, modified from 9300-9319)
73 Class 105 Cravens 2-car
72 Tamper – Plasser & Theurer (08-16/16-32)
71 GWR King 4-6-0 (6000-6029)
68 Class 128 Gloucester Diesel Parcels Unit (M55987-90, W55991-6)
68 Class 325 Royal Mail Units
67 GWR 90xx Dukedog 4-4-0 (3200-3228, later 9000-9028)
67 BR Mk1 Brake Second Open (BSO, Diags.183 & 184, built 1955-63)
66 Class 423 – 4 VEP
66 Container Flat – BR Freightliner FFA/FGA
65 GWR Churchward 37xx City of Truro 4-4-0 (3440, later 3717)
64 Class n/a Derby Lightweight 2-car (79xxx)
64 Crane – Cowans Sheldon Breakdown with Staff & Tool Vans (75-ton DH telescopic jib)
63 Class 41 Warship A1A-A1A (originally D600-D604)
63 Class 375/376/377/379/387 Electrostar
62 Class 85 (originally E3056-E3095)
62 Pullman Cars – Standard K Class (1923)
61 Class 438/491/492 – 3 TC, 4 TC Trailer Units
61 BR Vanwide (Diag.1/217 of 1962)
60 Class 91
60 Class 123 Swindon Inter-City 3- and 4-car
59 GWR Steam Railmotor (preserved at GWS 2011)
59 BR Standard Class 8 Duke of Gloucester 4-6-2 (71000)
59 Pullman Cars – Observation Cars, Devon Belle (1947)
59 Industrial 0-4-0 – Diesel or Petrol
58 Diesel Bogie Brake Tender
58 Class 401 – 2 BIL
58 Class 416/2 – 2 EPB BR design
57 LSWR S15 Urie 4-6-0 (30496-30515)*
57 Class n/a APT-E
57 Class 370 APT-P
57 BR Mk1 Kitchen Buffet (RKB, Diag.25, built 1960-1)
57 GWR Breakdown Crane with Staff & Tool Vans
Well not really any great surprises there really as ever steam era tends to dominate.
But there are some interesting models slowly creeping up even become maybe even creeping into the niche market! As ever though I don't see to many been more than a wish for a while as the model makers concentrate on getting all the models they have under development out on to the market.
The only thing that has surprised me has been the interest in the APT-P.
Quote from: acko22 on November 18, 2016, 12:06:39 PM
Well not really any great surprises there really as ever steam era tends to dominate.
I think this is more to do with the generation that buys the magazines and then can be bothered to vote, more than the general trend in the modelling world.
Good to see the N15/King Arthur at the top; problem with that is there are 4 versions, the original Urie LSWR ones, Maunsell "rebuilds" of Drummond 4-6-0s ("Eastleigh Arthurs"), Maunsell built by North British with 8 wheel tenders ("Scotch Arthurs) and later Maunsell builds with 6 wheel tender.
4 tender types, original Urie/Maunsell 8 wheel, Drummond Watercart 8 wheel inside frames on the "Eastleighs", later flush sided Maunsell 8 wheelers and "Ashford" 6 wheelers.
On the locos the cab roof is the most noticeable difference, the LSWR and Eastleighs had the larger LSWR pattern which was not suitable for use on ex LBSC and SECR lines, and the others had cabs to the composite loading gauge.
Quote from: acko22 on November 18, 2016, 12:06:39 PM
Well not really any great surprises there really as ever steam era tends to dominate.
To be fair, diesel locos and coaching stock are pretty well covered. Most of the main diesel classes are available RTR with plans in hand to do some of the missing classes. Mk1 - 4 coaching stock is available to varying standards of accuracy.
Electric locos fair less well with the early AC classes are not available but classes 86, 87, 90 and 91 are available RTR together with suitable rolling stock.
The big hole of course is multiple units but these are problematic to model as they are mundane rather than iconic and there are a lot of different classes. Even so, several DMUs and EMUs have made the top 50.
Regarding Diesels...
Class 28 with modified windows got 53 votes and the original got 40. I know that some, like me, will have voted for both versions but if the Class 28 had been a single category then I think that it would have easily made the top 50.
Still think it's odd that a revamped 25/3 is not allowed in the Poll. Farish will eventually do it & it will be a big seller.
Well I for one am encouraged! 3 of my choices in the top 12 - Class 117 & 120 DMUs plus rebuilt Merchant Navy's (come on Farish, surely that is an obvious one after releasing the originals!!!)
I had better get stocks in, as several on the wish list are already available as kits from N-Train/Electra
:angel:
I went through the wish list -my first time :uneasy:. I think I didn't grasp how it worked though because I went through it just to look first but at the end it said thanks for the vote!? I maybe wrongly also thought it might have what I was specifically waiting for -DBSO in blue grey or intercity (which seems to have dropped off the Farish list again) and more Tarmac JGA's as they seem to have dissapeared also. There was something else but I don't remember -I never saw it on the wish list anyway (maybe some coaches to go with the DBSO or something like that).
Maybe my bad -I didn't read the instructions beforehand -thought I could look first :doh: I was a bit surprised how much steam era was on it -but shouldn't really have been thinking about it.
Rich
The Dukedog is already available. :D
Quote from: RST on November 18, 2016, 09:02:44 PM
Maybe my bad -I didn't read the instructions beforehand -thought I could look first :doh: I was a bit surprised how much steam era was on it -but shouldn't really have been thinking about it.
Rich
It's only for products that haven't been produced recently, rather than things that are forthcoming or another run is needed. Hence no JGAs or DBSOs. There is certainly huge amounts of steam stuff on there, but I guess there are more obscure steam locos than there are modern diesels.
I couldn't identify half of the products in the top 50 frankly! I think voter numbers are sufficiently small for it not to mean very much too! OO has far more votes, and I'd have thought would carry more weight.
Very pleased not to see the 92 on there this year, for all the right reasons!
Quote from: njee20 on November 19, 2016, 10:25:28 PM
Quote from: RST on November 18, 2016, 09:02:44 PM
Maybe my bad -I didn't read the instructions beforehand -thought I could look first :doh: I was a bit surprised how much steam era was on it -but shouldn't really have been thinking about it.
Rich
It's only for products that haven't been produced recently, rather than things that are forthcoming or another run is needed. Hence no JGAs or DBSOs. There is certainly huge amounts of steam stuff on there, but I guess there are more obscure steam locos than there are modern diesels.
I couldn't identify half of the products in the top 50 frankly! I think voter numbers are sufficiently small for it not to mean very much too! OO has far more votes, and I'd have thought would carry more weight.
Very pleased not to see the 92 on there this year, for all the right reasons!
In fairness, the OO poll attracted 2473 voters, the N gauge attracted 552.
It's generally been accepted that N has quite a bit less than 20% of the market that OO has in the UK. 20% of 2473 is 494.
So I don't think the turnout is as insignificant as it perhaps appears.
Hi Scott
You are right about as a % of OO voters, but what is disappointing for both scales and particularly for N is the small number of the total market that votes. Certainly for the N wishlists it gives you a flavour of what might sell, but it doesn't give you sufficient confidence to produce X/Y/Z.
Perhaps we expect too much from it, on the other hand I get the feeling that the Wishlist Poll could do with better interaction with N gauge modellers (both in setting up the poll and in terms of "advertising" it eg in the Journal).
Cheers, Mike
Yes, that was my point, not necessarily that it's not proportional to the market, but the segment reached is tiny. Even a very open minded and forward thinking organisation like RevolutioN aren't going to go ahead with a product on the back of 57 expressions of interest!
Seems a shame. There's obviously a lot of work goes into it, but then I wonder if it's almost too big, I only voted on a couple of pages.
There's usually a silent majority in anything. This forum has nigh on 5000 members but I'd say only 5% post/participate on a regular basis :hmmm:
Quote from: njee20 on November 21, 2016, 11:25:05 AM
Even a very open minded and forward thinking organisation like RevolutioN aren't going to go ahead with a product on the back of 57 expressions of interest!
Or will we?!?
Quote from: red_death on November 21, 2016, 11:43:20 AM
Quote from: njee20 on November 21, 2016, 11:25:05 AM
Even a very open minded and forward thinking organisation like RevolutioN aren't going to go ahead with a product on the back of 57 expressions of interest!
Or will we?!?
Haha! I'll be honest I hope not, for the longevity of the business and all he products you keep making that I want!
I'm puzzled: the NER/LNER J26/J27 came 21st in the OO poll results yet us N Gaugers didn't have the option to vote for that loco (unless I missed it on two full checks?). Was there an oversight?
Quote from: red_death on November 21, 2016, 11:43:20 AM
Quote from: njee20 on November 21, 2016, 11:25:05 AM
Even a very open minded and forward thinking organisation like RevolutioN aren't going to go ahead with a product on the back of 57 expressions of interest!
Or will we?!?
I like your attitude!
I'll have both of the "twins" please both in original LMS livery. Let me know when you want a deposit.
:thumbsup:
Quote from: red_death on November 21, 2016, 11:43:20 AM
Quote from: njee20 on November 21, 2016, 11:25:05 AM
Even a very open minded and forward thinking organisation like RevolutioN aren't going to go ahead with a product on the back of 57 expressions of interest!
Or will we?!?
Ha ha teasing Mike, that's just cruel even if it is fun!
There is the one factor even before taking percentages and numbers
WISH LIST been exactly that I could have ticked so much more on it myself but I hold off as to what I would reasonably run without going extreme rule one.
But also as the name suggests its a wish not what you can and would pay for if it came available, while I have no doubt the majority would pay for an item they selected on the poll there would be a number that just couldn't for x/y/z reason, this can sway the numbers and give an slightly construed reflection.
I am sure we will all agree these polls are a rough guide for manufacturers and they still have the hard work of really seeing if the number add up to go for some of these models. Although things like the APT, well I doubt they will be seen anytime soon as they are extremely niche and well getting the number to add up would need an upsurge in N gauge modellers either modelling the required eras or in general to the hobby to reach the orders required.
I understand that the UK market size in N is about 1/3rd that of OO but probably increasing.
As a separate comment, are the people at Revoltion Trains open to potential models of steam era items? If so can I proffer the NER/LNER G5 0-4-4T? A decent chassis is currently not available in N and a new build at 12":1' is well underway.
I'll pop to the Revolution stand at Warley in hope...
Quote from: BlythStationLad on November 21, 2016, 12:36:25 PM
As a separate comment, are the people at Revoltion Trains open to potential models of steam era items? If so can I proffer the NER/LNER G5 0-4-4T? A decent chassis is currently not available in N and a new build at 12":1' is well underway.
Yes, but the same criteria apply as to any project (described in more detail elsewhere on this forum) ie that we have to be confident that there is a market to sell 1000 and that we can technically design and produce it*.
* I include this caveat as it is no secret that Ben and I are not massively knowledgeable about steam locos or how to design models of them (though to be fair the G5 looks simpler than most in terms of valve gear etc).
The initial challenge is always the same ie demonstrate that there is a market for it. Or at least demonstrate that there is enough interest to do some more detailed research on the prototype and launch a proper PR/marketing exercise to establish expressions of interest.
Cheers, Mike
Quote from: BlythStationLad on November 21, 2016, 12:18:49 PM
I'm puzzled: the NER/LNER J26/J27 came 21st in the OO poll results yet us N Gaugers didn't have the option to vote for that loco (unless I missed it on two full checks?). Was there an oversight?
Google suggests Union Mills do/did them.
Quote from: njee20 on November 21, 2016, 12:49:56 PM
Quote from: BlythStationLad on November 21, 2016, 12:18:49 PM
I'm puzzled: the NER/LNER J26/J27 came 21st in the OO poll results yet us N Gaugers didn't have the option to vote for that loco (unless I missed it on two full checks?). Was there an oversight?
Google suggests Union Mills do/did them.
LNER J26/J27 available from Union Mills. £69.00 plus P&P. They're on his list that he supplied along with my Dukedog so should be currently available.
High on my 'wish list' right now are a Class 41 Warship, DMUs finished with a 'W' prefix and a blue PRE TOPS Class 33 (finished as a D65XX).
Given the last two items already exist, albeit with the wrong numbers on the side, and renumbering myself is not an option (I just couldn't do it to modern rtr standards) it doesn't seem much to ask.
Plenty of places/people could renumber for you? probably a better/quicker solution than waiting for RTR.
Quote from: njee20 on November 28, 2016, 09:48:36 PM
Plenty of places/people could renumber for you? probably a better/quicker solution than waiting for RTR.
Thanks Njee, not an option I had thought of, but might investigate.
Hi all,
The one thing I have noticed over the past few years is the growing numbers of rail maintenance and engineering models been asked for.
Speaking for my area of interest (Modern Era) the tampers would be a nice addition but I do realise that some past attempts have not been up to a suitable standard and had issues plus there are 3d prints available for those that are capable of making them into an accurate working model!
While it does not strike me as surprising due to the limited numbers of engineering vehicles compared against normal freight and passenger stock numbers it would be nice to see some more RTR models come available in the coming years. In my opinion while not the most glamorous of rail vehicles they are the most important and with most been self propelling they are a train in their own right!
But on that I have to be honest you cant have a go at the manufacturers I totally appreciate these models would be very design heavy and therefore time and money consuming to get to a standard we expect these days and the numbers well do they stack up for a model that people may only need one or two of?
Sadly right now I think not, but we can all live in hope and keep wishing! :D
Now, there's an idea worthy of serious consideration :hmmm:. Just imagine all the trouble with ballasting new layouts and such that could be avoided if these tampers and ballast spreaders etc could be made to work in a prototype manner .
Just load them up in the morning and when you went back that evening a fully ballasted layout would be waiting for you, all done by 'the little people'. :claphappy: :laugh3:
(Well, it is a 'wish list' isn't it!)
Ben and I have talked about track maintenance vehicles a fair bit - the major stumbling block we've encountered is which one! We have some ideas but that is for a bit further down the line as we have plenty to get on with at the moment.
Cheers, Mike
I wonder if the prevalence in such models is just more a symptom that the number of 'normal' models left unrepresented is dwindling.
Quote from: njee20 on November 29, 2016, 10:31:36 AM
I wonder if the prevalence in such models is just more a symptom that the number of 'normal' models left unrepresented is dwindling.
You may be right, another factor I think is the fact as the detailing gets better the more demanding we are when it comes to detail as a whole, may it be scale speed, formations or as in this case been correct in all elements such as seeing self propelled maintenance stock especially modern era where it has become a lot more common.
AS I said previously while it is not impossible the engineering challenges for some of the more sought after models like the tampers to have them at the detail we demand it will cost and is the market happy to pay for? Its fair to say its a niche market as IIRC the tampers number around 40 versions in the UK so compared to say class 43s which are far more common and seen a lot more!
Personally I think it would make more sense if some one was going to take a dive into rail maintenance stock to go for the rail grinders, while the numbers are small around 15 in the UK:
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/45/4166-291116123949.jpeg)
The engineering of the model would be easier as all the working parts are hidden inside unlike a tamper where it is on show, it could be a potential start model to see if the market is there for the more unusual, lesser seen and less numerous rail maintenance vehicles.
As for other stock Mr Ando knows what I would give my right arm for, but if I mention it to him again I am sure he will beat me to death with a BBC microphone!! :confused1:
Modern Image Models do a nice 3D print of the Harsco grinder. Nearly ordered one yesterday when Shapeways were 25% off!
One thing I never see the option to vote for on these poll lists is modern UK light rail stock. Surely there must be some demand for Manchester Metrolink stock? Or Newcastle Metro or Sheffield, or even DLR for that matter. Yes I know it might appear a bit niche but all the above systems have substantial sections on which they run alongside National Rail so I'm sure a few modellers would buy them, to compliment their layouts with a bit of variety?
Ok, I'll go back in my box now... :)