Hello! I'm just new for british railways, my first loco became Dapol's class 22 and I want to choose some wagons to make a short trains, local passenger and freight. My knowleadge about british rolling stock is not good, so I would be grateful for some help
The 'Baby Warship' define the region and the time - western region branches in the beginning of 60's. I'm collecting a fotos from the net and as I saw, the typical western freights, like a china clay, commonly had many of the same wagons - but I would like to make a mixed freight short train.
I think it can consist of brake van,2-3 covered van (aka boxcar), wooden (5-7 plank) vans or the same, but steel, vans, 3-axe tanker for petroleum or such. But searching for the models of such wagons, I find the different colours of vans, like a BR bauxite early and late and BR grey - does it all fit to early 60's?
And the second question is abouth brake vans - I saw the models of LMS type brake van, N-E type brake van, but they have been observed to be suitable for BR era 5 too - which type will be correct to use in western region freights?
Thank you
And the same question is about the passenger train on the local branches in Cornwall - I think about short two coaches train in BR maroon for this period, saw the Dapol's "Collett coaches, but what is the difference between "composite", "brake composite" and the "second"?
Also, I would like to choose the coaches, which I can later use in the "mainline" passenger train, with Warship or Western - so the better can be the models, which can be use on the both ways - in local and in the main passengers trains.
Quote from: wooster on October 08, 2016, 12:26:06 PM
but what is the difference between "composite", "brake composite" and the "second"?
'Second' means all the compartments/seats are second class, 'composite' a mixture of first and second class, and 'brake composite' the same with a guard's compartment containing a brake (derived from the earlier brake van).
If it's for unfitted goods trains (i.e open wagons, box vans etc. without vacuum brakes) then the GWR style "Toad" brake van would be a good choice in BR Bauxite or plain grey I think. They were the GWR's standard brake van and the western region inherited hundreds of them :)
You could also drop in the odd 6 wheel milk tanker. These were fitted with vacuum brakes and rated for express running, so could be in a train on their own without a brake van (Dapol even do a box set of a class 22 and 6x 6 wheel milk tankers) but could also be dropped on the end of a passenger train.
During the 1960's all trains required a brake vehicle of some sort. On freight trains, even when fully fitted, the brake van would be at the rear.
It was not until the 1970's that fully fitted freight trains ran without a brake vehicle.
Dodger
I tend to use either a 'Toad' brake van as suggested above or the Peco NR28B one. Coal is carried in Peco NR44B and my vans are mainly Peco NR43B. I don't think there will be any issue in running grey with/without bauxite trucks.
I'm interesting, does Peco wagon kits have a decals in a kit?
A simple no is the answer. But there are plenty of suppliers out there but you will end up with dozens of spares.
If it is just a couple of kits just ask as someone may send you what you need, I would if I had them as post even from here is only E1 about £3 at next years exchange rates :veryangry:....
Jerry
Quote from: wooster on October 08, 2016, 12:00:26 PM
The 'Baby Warship' define the region and the time - western region branches in the beginning of 60's. I'm collecting a fotos from the net and as I saw, the typical western freights, like a china clay, commonly had many of the same wagons - but I would like to make a mixed freight short train.
I think it can consist of brake van,2-3 covered van (aka boxcar), wooden (5-7 plank) vans or the same, but steel, vans, 3-axe tanker for petroleum or such. But searching for the models of such wagons, I find the different colours of vans, like a BR bauxite early and late and BR grey - does it all fit to early 60's?
The colours of wagons showed what sort of braking system was used. Bauxite wagons had brakes that could be connected to the locomotive's braking system; grey wagons did not, they only had a mechanical hand brake that could only be applied by standing next to the wagon. The bauxite wagons had to be coupled next to the locomotive in order for the braking system to be connected.
In the early 1960s a local goods train could contain a mix of open wagons and covered vans. I've just done a quick online search; this page http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/d/dinas/ (http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/d/dinas/) has a nice colour picture of a goods train that consists of a grey steel mineral wagon (full of coal, I think), two bauxite vans and a brake van. Although it is a steam locomotive in the picture the Class 22 was built to do similar work.
As for coaches the two main choices would be Dapol Collett coaches or Graham Farish British Railways Mk1. In the 1960s some trains would stop at a junction station and one or two coaches would be detached and taken down the branch line. The same coaches would later return to the junction station to be re-attached to an express returning in the opposite direction.
Trains did run between different regions so you could also see different types of coaches, sometimes all mixed into one train. Most likely for the South West of England, where the Class 22 worked, would be the Southern Region Maunsell (Dapol) or Bulleid (Graham Farish) coaches but that's not to say that a Gresley (Dapol) or Stanier (Farish) coach might not be seen occasionally having come from either the Eastern or Midland Regions.
I hope this helps you.
Quote from: johnlambert on October 09, 2016, 01:59:22 AM
As for coaches the two main choices would be Dapol Collett coaches or Graham Farish British Railways Mk1. In the 1960s some trains would stop at a junction station and one or two coaches would be detached and taken down the branch line. The same coaches would later return to the junction station to be re-attached to an express returning in the opposite direction.
Trains did run between different regions so you could also see different types of coaches, sometimes all mixed into one train. Most likely for the South West of England, where the Class 22 worked, would be the Southern Region Maunsell (Dapol) or Bulleid (Graham Farish) coaches but that's not to say that a Gresley (Dapol) or Stanier (Farish) coach might not be seen occasionally having come from either the Eastern or Midland Regions.
I hope this helps you.
Thank you, this info is interesting and very usefull to make passenger and freight trains in right order. I saw the different colours in the trains like "The Cornishman" and "Cornish Rivera Express" on the 60's fotos - mixed of red and two-tone livered wagons (I haven't enough knowledge to determine the types of coaches yet)
One thing worth mentioning is that a "mixed train" is specifically one with at least one unbraked ("unfitted") vehicle. Such trains would indeed need a brake van behind the unfitted vehicles, which would usually be behind the coaching stock. An example might be one or more passenger coaches, followed by the classic 16-ton coal wagon, and then a brake van of some sort.
However, a passenger train however could include braked ("fitted") vehicles without being a mixed train. At various times it was fairly common for mixtures of passenger coaches with what are called NPCCS, or "non-passenger carrying coaching stock", for example parcels vans and milk tankers. Less commonly. XP-rated ("express") braked goods vans and tankers might be included as well, perhaps most notably fish vans and oil tankers in the north of Scotland well into the 1980s.
True mixed trains ran very slowly across very short distances (a few miles) on very rural lines that have minimal traffic otherwise. Trains made entirely up from fitted vehicles could run on all sorts of lines and at much greater speed, so while never common, are perhaps easier to model legitimately.
Taking your Class 22 for example, pre-1968 you'd certainly have this one working milk trains with some sort of brake vehicle at the end, and an old full brake Collett coach (of the sort the N Gauge Society produce) would be completely authentic. (Mk1 full brakes would be possible, but probably much rarer in practise because they were still relatively new at that point, and more likely to be working mainline rather than branch line trains.) Similarly sticking the the diesel in front of one or two Collett or Mk1 coaches working a rural stopping service, and then attaching a milk tanker or a brown XP-rated goods van would be perfectly possible too.
I model similar sorts of trains, and using "Rule 1", attach XP-rated fish vans to the ends of short passenger trains. These vans weren't used, so far as I know, on the Western Region, being more of a north of England and especially Scottish thing. But they look right, and if there was sufficient traffic from a given West Country harbour, they might have been used!
Cheers, NeMo
As a kid, I grew up in NE England and was always fascinated by the Western Toad brake vans.
The huge open verandah at the back suggested much warmer climes!
All the above suggestions are sound.
Just to offer you a little inspiration, here is a photo of one of my Class 22s on a goods train.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/27/main_23619.JPG)
Thanks to all, very interesting and usefull!
Just want to note - I don't know the british railways terms well, so I used the word "mixed" for the trains which have different types of goods wagons/vans in it, and even passenger and goods together. :)
For freight trains it's always a good idea to think "What would the people living in the village or town need from the outside world and what might they send to market?"
You may have decided the village/town is mainly farming, in which case you'll need a couple of cattle vans for cows/pigs/sheep. People move into/out of the area so maybe a container wagon will help. The local builder will need long lengths of wood so create some as a load for a 5 or 7 plank wagon. If central heating hasn't taken hold in the average home then coal might still be required etc etc
A lot depends on how much the local roads are used rather than the railways so this will also help you choose road vehicles for your layout.
Beer. :D
Hello to all, again :)
Can you help with any sources in the web to figure out the exact types of coaches, consisted passengers express trains in Western Region, like the "Cornishman" and "Cornish Rivera Express" been told above, in 60's? Each type - first, second class, composite, restaurant, vestibule, parcel's - along with it's model type (Collet, Mk1...) and including of other region coaches, like Stanier and so. Also interesting "Night Rivera" with sleeping first/second...
I collect some period fotos of this named express, but I can just figure out that coaches had different livery - maroon and two-tone in the same train in the same time. But I can't define the types and other info from it :(
Mk1s by the 1960s for the named expresses. Colletts would be very much relegated to secondary trains like branchline trains. My understanding is that Mk1s coupled easily to Staniers and Gresley coaches, but needed an adapter to work with Colletts, so mixing those types of coaches with Mk1s would be uncommon. They had different types of gangway connections.
On a parcels train pretty much anything goes! Feel free to jumble up full brake Colletts and Mk1s alongside XP-rated 4-wheel vans. Putting a full brake Collett at the end of a milk train is good, too.
So far as liveries go, custard and cream was gone on the WR by about 1960, having been replaced by chocolate and cream from the mid 50s onwards. Southern Region green, and of course maroon, were also common. As well as these, from 1965 onwards you see blue and grey.
Train compositions are difficult to generalise and a good idea is to find a photo (or a written report) and go with that. But I think a brake of some sort, a couple of second class coaches, and at least one composite first/second or entirely first class coach is a good starting point for modellers. Longer distance trains would add a buffet or restaurant coach as demand required, and extra second and first class coaches as well.
I don't believe Stanier vehicles were common on the WR except perhaps on inter-regionals, but there were some Gresley vehicles allocated to the WR; I believe, one or two restaurant vehicles at least, and possibly some parcels stock too. Others will know for sure.
Cheers, NeMo
Quote from: wooster on October 17, 2016, 08:25:37 PM
Hello to all, again :)
Can you help with any sources in the web to figure out the exact types of coaches, consisted passengers express trains in Western Region, like the "Cornishman" and "Cornish Rivera Express" been told above, in 60's? Each type - first, second class, composite, restaurant, vestibule, parcel's - along with it's model type (Collet, Mk1...) and including of other region coaches, like Stanier and so. Also interesting "Night Rivera" with sleeping first/second...
I collect some period fotos of this named express, but I can just figure out that coaches had different livery - maroon and two-tone in the same train in the same time. But I can't define the types and other info from it :(
Thank you NeMo! It seems to me, for period I'd choose I HAVE to buy both Collett and Mk1, first for the locals, next for express and can't "cheat" and spend less money and use one type for different train :)... For the beginning of 60s Mk1 too modern for the branches and Collett too old for the mainline service :)
Well, the more interesting! :)
Also I compared the different manufacturers of freigts wagons and vans and find that Graham Farish making more accurate and detailed models, isn't it? So, the brake van from GraFa 377-525E N SCALE 20 TON BRAKE VAN BR BAUXITE (EARLY) looks good, and a Peco NR28B, noted above in the post - a little bit rustic... the same can be said for other types of wagons too...
Does GraFa runs good or they looking better than running?
Quote from: wooster on October 17, 2016, 09:07:38 PM
Also I compared the different manufacturers of freigts wagons and vans and find that Graham Farish making more accurate and detailed models, isn't it? So, the brake van from GraFa 377-525E N SCALE 20 TON BRAKE VAN BR BAUXITE (EARLY) looks good, and a Peco NR28B, noted above in the post - a little bit rustic... the same can be said for other types of wagons too...
Does GraFa runs good or they looking better than running?
Farish wagons run just fine, and I agree in many cases they look better than the old Peco types which have been around for years but, having just checked on the Rails of Sheffield site, the Peco NR28B is £8.70 and the Farish 377-525E is £15.95. The difference in looks/running qualities doesn't warrant that sort of price differential to me.
(Mind you, when I bought my Peco trucks brand new they were less than £3.00 each!!!)
Yes, of course I saw the prices for both manufacturers, but think Farish worth every penny :)
One more question about the Mk1 for Cornwall express trains of the early 60's - find a pair of Restaurant coaches, RFO, from Farish, for bargain prices - one is 374-807 BR crimson & cream and 374-810 BR chocolate & cream, WR region. What livery will be correct for the express trains of early 60's?
Thanks for help! :)
In the early 1960s you could see both liveries, it took time to repaint all the coaches. I have seen a picture from the 1960s of a Western Region express train made up of mostly maroon coaches but with at least one each of chocolate & cream and crimson & cream coaches as well.
Thank you! And what is different between Restaurant Cars types RFO and RU? As I can see by windows first have only tables and seats, RU have different type of windows, look like it have a kitchen compartment. If it is so, this mean train must have both types in it?
RFO = First Class seating without kitchen so would only run in company with a kitchen vehicle. RU = unclassed with kitchen. Restaurant cars like these were generally confined to prestige express services.
I agree with pretty much everything so far and have just a few detail points to add.
1. Milk trains were unique in that they had a coach type brake vehicle rather than the toad used for ordinary freight (toad = GWR brake van) and this was often not at the end of the train. Whilst freight trains had brake vans right through to the 1980s, milk trains had lost their brake vans by 1969. I don't know what year they actually dropped from inclusion in milk trains but photos of milk trains in 1967 and earlier have brakes and from 1969 they don't.
2. Clay trains were often covered in white clay dust. Hoods were not introduced until the early 1970s. Before then they were flat tarpaulins. I have never seen a photo of a green diesel or steam loco pulling clay hoods.
3. Chocolate and cream BR mk1 coaches would be a good choice for late 1950s and early 1960s named expresses. The all chocolate and cream sets were broken up in the early 1960s. Chocolate and cream coaches seem to have completely gone by the end of 1964 - this is based on photos I have seen but some may have lasted longer.
4. Crimson and cream coaches could be seen in whole rakes up to around 1958. They seemed to have been repainted quite quickly and by around 1961 only the odd one crimson and cream coach remained to be seen occasionally in a rake of maroons.
5. The class 22s started with no yellow warning panel in the late 1950s. Yellow warning panels were introduced quite quickly from early 1962 and every loco seemed to have one by early 1964.
6. The headcodes do have a meaning. The first two digits"1A", "6M" etc signify the type of train and direction. 1 = express passenger, 2= local passenger, and the others refer to types of freight. The letter indicates direction - A=up train, B= down train, V = train finishing on Western Region but startin in a different region. The good news is that on Wst Country branches the headcodes didn't seem to get changed and a reasonable percentage of photos of class 22s in the West Country show them to have incorrect headcodes for the train they are pulling. Most, maybe all, long distance mainline trains appear to have correct headcodes.
Thank you for the answers. So, is it correct to add RU to RFO, or, the RFO coach must assist by some sort of special car with only kitchen?
Also, is it correct to have only RU coach in express named trains with First class coaches in it, or the RFO mUst be in train with FK coaches? (RFO for FK and RU for others and working as a kitchen for RFO)
Quote from: wooster on October 28, 2016, 10:02:51 PM
RFO, from Farish, for bargain prices - one is 374-807 BR crimson & cream and 374-810 BR chocolate & cream, WR region. What livery will be correct for the express trains of early 60's?
Basically, crimson and cream for steam and green diesels without warning panels; chocolate and cream (or maroon) for green diesels with warning panels.
Why? Because by the time warning panels were widely applied, circa 1961/1962, the crimson and cream livery was extremely uncommon, if not gone completely, on the Western Region.
Cheers, NeMo
So, NeMo, the chocolate and cream is later livery then crimson and cream? I thought the chocolate and cream was old GWR livery and crimson and cream are later BR's... I mistake...
Two different chocolate-and-cream liveries!
GWR chocolate-and-cream livery was abolished in 1948, at nationalisation. Coaches were quickly repainted into British Railways colours, which through the 1950s was crimson-and-cream.
However, in the late 50s/early 60s the different regions were allowed to have their own, regional colours. The Southern Region did their coaches in green, and the Western Region did their coaches in chocolate-and-cream. Of course, these coaches had British Railways emblems on them, not GWR emblems. But otherwise they did indeed look quite similar (though not identical).
So ignore overlaps of a few years either way, you basically have...
Pre-1948 GWR chocolate-and-cream
1950s = British Railways crimson-and-cream
1960s = British Railways chocolate-and-cream (WR only) as well as maroon and green coaches
1970s = BR blue-grey
Cheers, NeMo
Quote from: wooster on October 29, 2016, 09:08:56 AM
So, NeMo, the chocolate and cream is later livery then crimson and cream? I thought the chocolate and cream was old GWR livery and crimson and cream are later BR's... I mistake...
NeMo is spot on. Chocolate and cream was introduced on Mk 1 coaches in 1956. These coaches were used in rakes on the top expresses such as the Cornish Riviera. Maron was used for lesser services. At some point in the early 1960s the central authorities decided the Western Region were being too different and rum our has it they ordered the chocolate and cream sets to be broken up and mixed with maroon coaches until they could be repainted.
Chris, during research i turned choosing period from 1964-65 to 62-63, as I want to make a scenes with steam and diesels working side by side and even in the head of one train, assisting each other on steep grades. It was common practice for the beginning of 60's, and not for the 64-65.
22 and 42 I'd bought is w/out SYP and I would like to renumbered 22 to D6320,27 or 32, as they had no SYP and Headcodes until 1964 (some fotos says 1965 still plain green with disks, but probably it was date mistake? Anyway, 1964 is enough).
Class 42 is "Magpie", split from Farishs set, had no SYP.
Another noticeable mark of a early 60's I'd found -wagons data letters must be unboxed
Class 22s may well have been slower to receive yellow warning panels than the Westerns and Warships so there may well have been a few around in 1964.
Magpie was built in 1960 and painted green. She received her warning panel in September 1962. She was painted maroon in December 1965and blue in October 1970.
According to my reference book (Modern Locomotives Illustrated) the last Warships to receive yellow panels were as follows:-
D821 Greyhound Feb 1964
D845 Sprightly Feb 1964 (although she had a trial panel and white window surrounds from August 1961)
D856 Trojan May 1965 . This is so far out from the others that I wonder if it is correct.
Thank you Chris, I finding this info about 42s. Became clear that I need to renumber Magpie to Greyhound, to use it with Westerns in her early livery.
Can you help with Western - I want one in maroon, I think they all must have SYP, as they appear in 1962? I saw the foto w/out SYP, but fotos seems to be a factory made...
Quote from: wooster on October 29, 2016, 08:50:51 AM
Thank you for the answers. So, is it correct to add RU to RFO, or, the RFO coach must assist by some sort of special car with only kitchen?
Also, is it correct to have only RU coach in express named trains with First class coaches in it, or the RFO mUst be in train with FK coaches? (RFO for FK and RU for others and working as a kitchen for RFO)
My understanding is that the RFO requires a kitchen car RK. For both First & Second Class dining you could have RFO+RK+RSO. I'm sure that others will know more about this and can comment if my understanding is not correct.
Well, the correct coaches composition of named expresses can be find is documents, I think (but I still could not :( ) On facebook page was some info from Carriage Working Programme, but for 1971-72.
Here are a couple of colour photos of Western Region express trains. It should give you an idea of how the coach liveries were mixed.
8th July 1962 - one crimson & cream brake coach behind the engine and the rest of the train is maroon.
http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrhb2209.htm (http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrhb2209.htm)
No date on this one except that it must be before September 1962 (because the engine in the photo was scrapped by that date) with two chocolate & cream coaches in the middle of maroon coaches.
http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrhb2232.htm (http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrhb2232.htm)
Here's a named express in 1959, all chocolate & cream coaches
http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrms1316.htm (http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrms1316.htm)
I hope these are helpful.
Full details of Westerns livery can be found at http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/54225-western-liveries-1961-1977/ (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/54225-western-liveries-1961-1977/)
Quote from: Chris Morris on October 29, 2016, 08:24:04 AM
6. The headcodes do have a meaning. The first two digits"1A", "6M" etc signify the type of train and direction. 1 = express passenger, 2= local passenger, and the others refer to types of freight. The letter indicates direction - A=up train, B= down train, V = train finishing on Western Region but startin in a different region. The good news is that on Wst Country branches the headcodes didn't seem to get changed and a reasonable percentage of photos of class 22s in the West Country show them to have incorrect headcodes for the train they are pulling. Most, maybe all, long distance mainline trains appear to have correct headcodes.
@Chris Morris (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3123)
That's very helpful, Chris. Maybe in a separate thread you could either expand on that or suggest a website those interested could bookmark as, although I can't change the headcodes supplied on most of my diesels, some understanding of them may help me 'concoct' a story around them.
Here's the train formation for The Intercity in 1959; a Western Region express that ran from Paddington to Wolverhampton.
1 Brake Second
4 Second Corridor
1 Restaurant car with kitchen (second class)
1 Restaurant first open
3 First Corridor
1 Brake Composite
Found on RMweb about "Cornishman":
The summer 1961 from Wolverhampton was BSK,SK,SK[ not used from 8/61],CK,CK,RU,SO,SK,BSK for Penzance
It also had 5 coaches that were detached at Newton Abbot for Kingswear comprising of SK,CK,SK,BSK,SK[Fridays only]
Quote from: newportnobby on October 29, 2016, 02:58:00 PM
Quote from: Chris Morris on October 29, 2016, 08:24:04 AM
6. The headcodes do have a meaning. The first two digits"1A", "6M" etc signify the type of train and direction. 1 = express passenger, 2= local passenger, and the others refer to types of freight. The letter indicates direction - A=up train, B= down train, V = train finishing on Western Region but startin in a different region. The good news is that on Wst Country branches the headcodes didn't seem to get changed and a reasonable percentage of photos of class 22s in the West Country show them to have incorrect headcodes for the train they are pulling. Most, maybe all, long distance mainline trains appear to have correct headcodes.
@Chris Morris (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3123)
That's very helpful, Chris. Maybe in a separate thread you could either expand on that or suggest a website those interested could bookmark as, although I can't change the headcodes supplied on most of my diesels, some understanding of them may help me 'concoct' a story around them.
Probably the best explanation is at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Train_reporting_number (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Train_reporting_number)
Other interesting pages http://www.2d53.co.uk/Headcode/Headcode4.htm (http://www.2d53.co.uk/Headcode/Headcode4.htm) and http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gansg/3-sigs/bellhead.htm (http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gansg/3-sigs/bellhead.htm)
This is also interesting http://headcodes.mrol.com.au/default.aspx (http://headcodes.mrol.com.au/default.aspx)
Add a little bit of info... found an article in Hornby Magazine #95 5/2015 - The Western at Westbury by Mark Chivers, were is a couple of examples of passenger and freight formations of 1960's. Very interesting...
Quote from: wooster on October 08, 2016, 04:50:02 PM
I'm interesting, does Peco wagon kits have a decals in a kit?
It's better than that; the wagons referred to are ready to run.
Quote from: Bornin1980something link=topic=34855.msg413930#msguyg413930 date=1480121291
Quote from: wooster on October 08, 2016, 04:50:02 PM
I'm interesting, does Peco wagon kits have a decals in a kit?
It's better than that; the wagons referred to are ready to run.
It is not clear for me - I was asked about a KIT - it simply can't be "ready-to-run". If i understand correctly, "ready to run" mean the complect factory fully assembled, painted and decailed rolling stock, can be put on rails from the box...
Correct. All Peco 10ft and 15ft wheelbase are available in r-t-r (cat no. NRxx) or as kits (cat no. KNRxx). The kits are very easy to assemble, but are not self coloured and do not include transfers.
Peco also do a range of four early 9ft wheelbase wagons, but only as kits.
Yes I know Peco had rtr wagons, and they are cheaper than farish - but farish's look much better. I'd order some Farish and Peco kit also - will see them at real soon :)
Rise the post about choosing the wagons... (it was not a good year for modelling to me - but, I hope for the better days :) )
Meanwhile, collected the info I need about western region and wagons for 22, 42 and 52 diesels I added to my researching interest the north of Scotland - I'm interesting to have a class 24/25 and a class 40 locos, so thinking about Inverness region lines.
If I'm correct that for the 1960-65 passenger trains for this region I can use Mk1 coaches in BR maroon livery? I saw farish's few, but note it has a letter "M" or "E" before the number of car - does it mean the region, like "W" for the western? "M" - Midland; "E" - Eastern - but what for the Scotland?
May be another than Mk1 types of coaches (Stanier, Collette) can be used on the local train (like a Kyle line)?
You are quite right about the prefix letters........
W = Western
M = Midland
E = Eastern
S = Southern
SC = Scottish
I don't think you'd get away with Collett coaches as they stayed mainly on the Western region
Hmmm... spent some time, trying to find any coaches with "SC" region letters, but couldn't. Many "W", "E", "M" variants of coaches, but no one "SC" for 5 era period. May be Scottish regional train used ex-LNER coaches with "E" prefix letter without relettering for sometime in early 60's? But I saw "SC" on the foto of Glasgow to Aberdeen express in 1966, so, they exist - but no one N scale coaches for Scottish region? Only way - to use decails?
I only have one which is a blue/grey MK1 SK Farish ref 374-062 running number SC18251
It will be a bit of a pain but you could plough through the coach section of this as it gives all the running numbers............
http://www.bachmann.co.uk/pdfs/farish_products_by_item_no_rev5.pdf (http://www.bachmann.co.uk/pdfs/farish_products_by_item_no_rev5.pdf)
Quote from: newportnobby on October 02, 2017, 03:00:14 PM
I only have one which is a blue/grey MK1 SK Farish ref 374-062 running number SC18251
It will be a bit of a pain but you could plough through the coach section of this as it gives all the running numbers............
http://www.bachmann.co.uk/pdfs/farish_products_by_item_no_rev5.pdf (http://www.bachmann.co.uk/pdfs/farish_products_by_item_no_rev5.pdf)
Thanks... but according GF list the only Mk1 with "SC" is 374-062, as you wrote :worried:
Sorry, but the alternative is to renumber some.