I don't know what others think on the Forum but my impression is that loco quality seems to be improving. (I just know I'm gonna regret saying this!!).
I've had a run of about a dozen locos (Dapol & Farish) over the last year perhaps with no problems at all. This includes two of the Dapol Schools with their potential valve gear jamming problems.
I find this very encouraging and hope this trend continues.
It's nice to feel more positive about what you're gonna receive.
Wadya think folks??
:) :beers:
Just when I'd had a good run of Farish steam locos (Fairburn, J39, Duchess, Jinty, 4F, 2MT and N class) I go and get a duff 64xx. I have a Castle on pre order and hope that it runs as good as it looks.
I still get uneasy about Dapol. I have a class 33 on order which I reckon will whine like many of my Dapol diesels do and more than likely the lights will pack up quite soon The Battle of Britain is, at present, an unknown quantity as no one knows what sort of motor it will end up with.
The class 23 I have on pre order with DJ Models is also an unknown quantity as we haven't seen any N gauge stuff in the flesh yet, although it looks a cracker.
On that basis - sorry, Bob, the jury is still out in my opinion.
I've no real complaints but I do feel that the Dapol offerings seem to be generally more flimsy. However, I have a good number from both suppliers of various types and I agree that quality does appear to be better than it was maybe 2 years ago.
Quote from: newportnobby on August 13, 2016, 07:21:54 PM
I still get uneasy about Dapol. I have a class 33 on order which I reckon will whine like many of my Dapol diesels do and more than likely the lights will pack up quite soon...
Quite so! Lights do seem to be the weak spot on Dapol diesels. Most of the ones I've sent back have been for this reason, including a 52, an 86, and a 22.
I do wonder if the electronics necessary for DCC are the problem. I don't use DCC, and don't have any intention of doing so. I've got several pre-DCC locos from Kato, Roco and Fleischmann, and the lights on these are (a) very much simpler in design and (b) still work. DCC requires much more sophisticated circuitry and Dapol don't seem to be able to nail the right sort of reliability at the right price. Often you get a good one, but if you don't, the lights do seem to fail within a few weeks or months.
Cheers, NeMo
Quote from: NeMo on August 13, 2016, 07:52:46 PM
Quote from: newportnobby on August 13, 2016, 07:21:54 PM
I still get uneasy about Dapol. I have a class 33 on order which I reckon will whine like many of my Dapol diesels do and more than likely the lights will pack up quite soon...
Quite so! Lights do seem to be the weak spot on Dapol diesels. Most of the ones I've sent back have been for this reason, including a 52, an 86, and a 22.
I do wonder if the electronics necessary for DCC are the problem. I don't use DCC, and don't have any intention of doing so. I've got several pre-DCC locos from Kato, Roco and Fleischmann, and the lights on these are (a) very much simpler in design and (b) still work. DCC requires much more sophisticated circuitry and Dapol don't seem to be able to nail the right sort of reliability at the right price. Often you get a good one, but if you don't, the lights do seem to fail within a few weeks or months.
Cheers, NeMo
I must admit NeMo I don't buy that many Dapol diesels so the problem with lights is not something I would generally notice.
No probs with the few Farish Diesels I have.
:beers:
This year (my first in N gauge): 9 Farish 1 return. 11 Dapol 4 returns. All steam (I don't have diesels or electrics). For me the Dapol failures are running at 3 times the rate of those for Farish models. I know its not statistically significant but the difference is significant for me the buyer. Overall a 25% return rate, not really acceptable in any marketplace.
John
Quote from: JRS747 on August 13, 2016, 08:16:17 PM
This year (my first in N gauge): 9 Farish 1 return. 11 Dapol 4 returns. All steam (I don't have diesels or electrics). For me the Dapol failures are running at 3 times the rate of those for Farish models. I know its not statistically significant but the difference is significant for me the buyer. Overall a 25% return rate, not really acceptable in any marketplace.
John
True - that's the sort of failure rate I got a year ago - but pretty good now. I guess its just how the dice roll out!!
:beers:
Quote from: JRS747 on August 13, 2016, 08:16:17 PMFor me the Dapol failures are running at 3 times the rate of those for Farish models.
John
That's an odd thing to call as a 'failure'... :confused1:
If the loco runs faster (at the same controller setting so on the same current) it actually means to me a
better model - either electrically more efficient or mechanically freer. It's then not a fault with the model as such, rather a failure of your self control in not turning the controller up so far...
Quote from: PLD on August 13, 2016, 09:33:08 PM
Quote from: JRS747 on August 13, 2016, 08:16:17 PMFor me the Dapol failures are running at 3 times the rate of those for Farish models.
John
That's an odd thing to call as a 'failure'... :confused1:
If the loco runs faster (at the same controller setting so on the same current) it actually means to me a better model - either electrically more efficient or mechanically freer. It's then not a fault with the model as such, rather a failure of your self control in not turning the controller up so far...
I think he means he gets three times as many Dapol failures as he does Farish models. Or am I missing something here?
:hmmm: :beers:
Quote from: austinbob on August 13, 2016, 09:41:17 PM
Quote from: PLD on August 13, 2016, 09:33:08 PM
Quote from: JRS747 on August 13, 2016, 08:16:17 PMFor me the Dapol failures are running at 3 times the rate of those for Farish models.
John
That's an odd thing to call as a 'failure'... :confused1:
If the loco runs faster (at the same controller setting so on the same current) it actually means to me a better model - either electrically more efficient or mechanically freer. It's then not a fault with the model as such, rather a failure of your self control in not turning the controller up so far...
I think he means he gets three times as many Dapol failures as he does Farish models. Or am I missing something here?
:hmmm: :beers:
Nope you're OK Bob, it's PLD who has got completely the wrong end of the stick ;)
Paul
Quote from: austinbob on August 13, 2016, 09:41:17 PM
Quote from: PLD on August 13, 2016, 09:33:08 PM
Quote from: JRS747 on August 13, 2016, 08:16:17 PMFor me the Dapol failures are running at 3 times the rate of those for Farish models.
John
That's an odd thing to call as a 'failure'... :confused1:
If the loco runs faster (at the same controller setting so on the same current) it actually means to me a better model - either electrically more efficient or mechanically freer. It's then not a fault with the model as such, rather a failure of your self control in not turning the controller up so far...
I think he means he gets three times as many Dapol failures as he does Farish models. Or am I missing something here?
:hmmm: :beers:
Re-reading - probably yes so apologies to John...
(just been dealing with someone on another forum who complained his locos were too fast and got a bit uppity when several pointed out it was entirely in his hands how fast his locos go, and read it as a similar thing...)
Actually, reliable slower running is, in most cases, an improvement. Many early models always started at unrealistically high speeds, and could not sustain lower speeds without stalling. This can be a problem on the real thing. It is why freight logos are designed to be slower than passenger traction. Its not just trains; I have read of a small military vehicle which was unable to sustain speeds below 5 mph, limiting it's use in infantry support.
Modern low geared models may not be quite as fast as early ones on full power, but are more controllable at lower speeds. Some serious modellers opt for very low gear ratios, like 80:1.
As for quality in general, I always assumed that the fine engineering on modern locos would make them more delicate. Then, my BachFar 2MT was hit by a 900g DSLR camera on a slippy tripod. A nearby Oxford Diecast tractor was wrecked, but the loco shows not signs damage, and still runs far better than my Dapol 2MT!
I think it depends on what you mean by better.
I returned a Dapol Britannia as it derailed at almost every opportunity and made alarming noises straight out of the box, and replaced it with a Minitrix Britannia which has to be around 30 years old. It runs perfectly without any derailing issues, although it is far less detailed than the Dapol offering.
I have 90 locos in my roster, from early Graham Farish, through Minitirix both UK and continental outline, Arnold, Fleischmann, modern Farish, Union Mills, Kato and Dapol, with both Steam and Diesel outline. Only a Farish V2 and one of my two Dapol 9Fs (Both with the upgraded pony truck fitted.) gave problems with track holding, both losing the pony truck on sharper bends and at the odd point. In both cases it proved an easy enough solution to lift the pony truck wheels clear of the track and run the locos as 0-6-2 and 0-9-0 respectively, while retaining the optically correct 2-6-2 and 2-9-0 look of the locos.
I feel a brand new loco should negotiate my layout straight out of the box. Anything less is IMHO a failure on the locos part, not the track and in this day and age unacceptable.
I can't say much for running as I have no working layout at the moment but after a fifteen year gap the level of detail in ready to run models has given me a very positive shock. I ordered a Dapol LNER teak Buffet car as a reference point for a little project I'm working on which turned up in the post today. I have to say, after seeing photographs on t'internet and initially thinking, "S'alright I s'pose" I was quite stunned at the level of detail on the model when I opened the packaging this morning... and then felt a little worried at how on earth I'm going to match that with a scratch build! £23 (and some for postage), ready to run, stunning detail, and even kitted out to accept a light board under the roof! It'll not only serve as a firm benchmark for my little project but its a tangible piece of reassurance that the N-gauge market is being given a fair amount of attention and no longer seen as that, "Other bit" for some manufacturers. As I said, can't say anything for running but in terms of detailed modelling, something which is quite important to me, I'm stunned at where N gauge is now, and with options such as etch kits, laser printing, and 3D printing (still a way to go there for N but its moving along smoothly) it will only get better.
Quote from: Byegad on August 15, 2016, 09:55:22 AM
it proved an easy enough solution to lift the pony truck wheels clear of the track and run the locos as 0-6-2 and 0-9-0 respectively, while retaining the optically correct 2-6-2 and 2-9-0 look of the locos.
@Byegad (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=4798) I have one engine that will nearly always derail on the same point whilst going in one direction. Out of interest, how did you lift the pony truck wheels but keep the look? Fancy doing a little tutorial ???
I locked the pony truck with a piece of card inserted under the truck, loosening the base of the loco and nipping the card to stay put, adding a little tacky wax. Then with a fine sewing needle,
I used thread to lift the truck wheels as far up as I could. I used the buffers as tie off points for the thread with a tiny dab of flexible super glue to hold the thread knot tight. It took me two goes with the V2 to get it high enough to clear the rails, but low enough to appear normal on straight track. The dapol 9f was first time lucky! Don't use thick card as all it does is take the weight of the truck off its wheels.
Both run very well, but you can see that the trucks are locked on very tight curves, circa 9" radius.
Hope this helps.