Has anybody changed to having their gas and electric monitored by one of the new fangled 'smart meters' ?
How successful was the outcome?
We are constantly being urged to change by SSE. but when approached we come up against solid brick walls :censored: :veryangry:
Advice needed perleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze
Wots a smartmeter?
Here in Australia some bloke wanders up the street and pushes a button on some handheld gizmo then you get the bills for every bloody thing. ;)
Quote from: jonclox on July 21, 2016, 10:47:57 AM
Has anybody changed to having their gas and electric monitored by one of the new fangled 'smart meters' ?
How successful was the outcome?
We are constantly being urged to change by SSE. but when approached we come up against solid brick walls :censored: :veryangry:
Advice needed perleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze
Hi
I registered my interest on the British Gas website about 12 months ago and got an email recently. Arranged an appointment and had them changed a fortnight ago.
No issues so far but then it is early days. Data seems to be uploaded to them as I can view my daily breakdown on their website.
Cheers
Paul
Quote from: Bealman on July 21, 2016, 11:09:59 AM
Wots a smartmeter?
Here in Australia some bloke wanders up the street and pushes a button on some handheld gizmo then you get the bills for every bloody thing. ;)
Its sposed to save his legs and time by reading your
exact power usage by the minute via the internet which may not have hit the sub continents yet :angel:
I've had a British Gas smart meter for several years now. Works well with their website for checking gas and electricity usage and to check if you owe them or they owe you!!
Smart meter also has lcd display to show energy usage over last hour and how much your spending. Green light for low usage, amber light for higher usage and red light for time to get a loan from bank.
:) :beers:
When every meter in every house is phoning home, and every fridge/freezer is calling the supermarket to order groceries for us, and every booger in the world is FarceBooking the latest pic of the cat playing the banjo, and......... will there be any bandwidth left for folks like you and me to read new forum posts?
Remember when even a simple forum post involved a previous generation of the PC (post card-remember those?) and the words, "Dear editor..." blah-blah-blah..., "signed: Angry of - - - - - - -"???
I believe the ones we are getting in the UK use gsm/gprs for communication. So the 'old' mobile phone network.
Which is fine, as long as said network is still there.
And you have reception.
I don't have an issue with smart meters themselves, as long as they work 'as advertised'
Had mine fitted about a month ago which surprised me as the mobile phone signal where I live is shocking for all providers.
I can check what 'juice' I use by the hour, day, week etc but as it's so warm at present it doesn't really tell me anything ::)
Speaking to a friend he told me that the idea is that once we all have these smart jobbies the companies will be able to up the price at times of peak demand.
So gas and electrickery will be cheap when it's warm, both expensive when its freezing cold and also at the peak teatime use period and so on.
Given the way they rapidly jack up the price at the first sign of a supplier price rise and let it down slowly when costs go back down for them it doesn't sound like I'll save money in the long run then!
Or am I an old cynic?
Quote from: newportnobby on July 21, 2016, 01:56:19 PM
Had mine fitted about a month ago which surprised me as the mobile phone signal where I live is shocking for all providers.
I can check what 'juice' I use by the hour, day, week etc but as it's so warm at present it doesn't really tell me anything ::)
Its telling you you're saving loads of loot to put towards your next loco.
:)
I'm ignoring any requests to move to a smart meter at this point. I'll let other people get the early buggy and insecure ones 8)
https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/Papers/JSAC-draft.pdf (https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/Papers/JSAC-draft.pdf)
is a fairly detailed analysis of the current systems.
i have had British Gas one for about 2 years now and the system seems to work I get regular updates on my useage and accurate bills no more highly inaccurate estimated ones, no more delving into the meter cupboard to send readings in, I am in favour of them so I would say go for it.
Could be interesting implementing smart meters here, 67 flats in the building and all the meters are in a locked room for which the house manager has the key. Plus I just can't see some of the older residents coping, not exactly technology literate.
Thanks for all the comments so far.
It looks like Ive no urgent needs to make my mind up so I will put the big decision on back burner , keep reading comments from you all and expect things to happen some when in the future :angel:
Quote from: EtchedPixels on July 21, 2016, 02:12:44 PM
I'm ignoring any requests to move to a smart meter at this point. I'll let other people get the early buggy and insecure ones 8)
https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/Papers/JSAC-draft.pdf (https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/Papers/JSAC-draft.pdf)
is a fairly detailed analysis of the current systems.
I got to the words 'the presence of a remote off switch' on the first page, and needed to read no further. They have got to be joking.
:hellosign: Are these things compulsory? , So if I don`t leave the TV on standby and use the lights only when needed etc ,I`ll be paying more for my electricity because the meter runs on electric. :veryangry:
Quote from: Tonye on July 21, 2016, 04:42:17 PM
:hellosign: Are these things compulsory? , So if I don`t leave the TV on standby and use the lights only when needed etc ,I`ll be paying more for my electricity because the meter runs on electric. :veryangry:
Don't think they're compulsory yet. Probably uses less juice than your smallest loco crawling along.
:) :beers:
Oh.. And I don't work for an energy company....
I nearly got mine installed today - and it was going so well.
I received a letter about two weeks ago, called them and after answering quite a few "qualifying" questions, agreed a date. I was told the engineer would call between 2 and 6pm.
At 2:15pm he arrived. The official reason he didn't do the install was the meters are "too far apart" - around 23 feet. It turns out the gas meter talks to the electric meter by radio which then communicates with head office. To my mind, he just didn't want to do it. Other excuses he mentioned was;
- Plants in front of the electric meter (Paving slabs give access)
- The meter won't work with solar panels (I pointed out I had discussed this with the agent I called and they agreed he could)
- The box housing the gas meter had melted (What??? Where??? Show me!)
I'll call them tomorrow as I want to give him time to submit his report. The guy even tried to tell me the solar panels would make the meter run backwards - they are digital just like my existing meter.
He also couldn't give any advice regarding the gas meter - I had assumed they would connect it by cable. He couldn't tell me how long the batteries would last or who/how they are replaced.
Quote from: Yet_Another on July 21, 2016, 04:13:18 PM
Quote from: EtchedPixels on July 21, 2016, 02:12:44 PM
I'm ignoring any requests to move to a smart meter at this point. I'll let other people get the early buggy and insecure ones 8)
https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/Papers/JSAC-draft.pdf (https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/Papers/JSAC-draft.pdf)
is a fairly detailed analysis of the current systems.
I got to the words 'the presence of a remote off switch' on the first page, and needed to read no further. They have got to be joking.
I suspect that the use of the word 'switch' is figurative and I hope that it actually means some sort of encrypted passcode. Not impossible to hack but comparably hard to hacking an online banking system.
Oddly enough I happen to have met one of the authors of that paper. I had no idea that was his area of academia.
It wasn't talking about hacking individual meters, although I believe that's possible as well, it was talking about hacking the control system, to be able to remotely turn off entire cities.
One can see that the ability to remotely cut off a non-payer is something that would be attractive to the suppliers, but the vulnerability that it brings is not acceptable.
Smart meters here in the US are actively used to regulate demand. My local utility is quite open about the fact that when they install a smart meter they will also be able to turn my air conditioning down remotely. You can manually override this, but I didn't like the idea of the utility company controlling how much energy I use.
Regards,
John P
They are here to stay in Spain. Another example of Big Brother. As far as I can gather the price of electricity fluctuates by the minute with the cheapest being around 5am. People use timers to control things like washing machines and turn down the fridge to its lowest setting then turn up the thermostat during the day. Thank goodness I live off grid. :)
They're being threatened here but Endesa insist you have to pay for them and because you have a new meter you then have to have your system updated to the current spec and costs at least 600 euro just for a new circuit breaker box to be installed. Until they provide them free that can get stuffed. :)
Quote from: Caz on July 21, 2016, 09:40:51 PM
They're being threatened here but Endesa insist you have to pay for them and because you have a new meter you then have to have your system updated to the current spec and costs at least 600 euro just for a new circuit breaker box to be installed. Until they provide them free that can get stuffed. :)
Typical of big business here. If I wanted mains electricity installed it would cost me €80,000, no that's not a typing error, and that is just to the meter. Anything after that is extra. I have no neighbours so no one to share costs.
Quote from: GrahamB on July 21, 2016, 05:38:29 PM
The guy even tried to tell me the solar panels would make the meter run backwards
That was a problem with some very old meters that should have been swapped out when solar was installed but not modern stuff. Sounds like the "engineer" they sent you wasn't clueful, which is disturbing given how dangerous wrongly installed supply side electricity equipment is.
Quote from: EtchedPixels on July 22, 2016, 02:26:18 PM
That was a problem with some very old meters that should have been swapped out when solar was installed but not modern stuff. Sounds like the "engineer" they sent you wasn't clueful, which is disturbing given how dangerous wrongly installed supply side electricity equipment is.
I called the installation company who said the notes also say he didn't install because there was a shrub in the way of the meter and unacceptable trip hazards (Bedding plants around 9" tall and yes, it's in the front garden).
Scottish Power say there is no distance limit between the two meters, Lowri Beck say there is.
As I'm off soon for a couple of weeks (House swap) and I don't want my relatives bothered by this I'll wait until I get back before commencing battle. Photos taken of the "unacceptable trip hazard" to be used in evidence.
Sounds like you should send them a letter about the "unacceptable twit hazard" they sent you :bounce:
Quote from: Tonye on July 21, 2016, 04:42:17 PM
:hellosign: Are these things compulsory? , So if I don`t leave the TV on standby and use the lights only when needed etc ,I`ll be paying more for my electricity because the meter runs on electric. :veryangry:
Hi
As far as I am aware the meter is powered by the input so doesn't go on your bill as the electricity it consumes doesn't go through the meter.
Cheers
Paul
Quote from: GrahamB on July 21, 2016, 05:38:29 PM
I nearly got mine installed today - and it was going so well.
I received a letter about two weeks ago, called them and after answering quite a few "qualifying" questions, agreed a date. I was told the engineer would call between 2 and 6pm.
At 2:15pm he arrived. The official reason he didn't do the install was the meters are "too far apart" - around 23 feet. It turns out the gas meter talks to the electric meter by radio which then communicates with head office. To my mind, he just didn't want to do it. Other excuses he mentioned was;
- Plants in front of the electric meter (Paving slabs give access)
- The meter won't work with solar panels (I pointed out I had discussed this with the agent I called and they agreed he could)
- The box housing the gas meter had melted (What??? Where??? Show me!)
I'll call them tomorrow as I want to give him time to submit his report. The guy even tried to tell me the solar panels would make the meter run backwards - they are digital just like my existing meter.
He also couldn't give any advice regarding the gas meter - I had assumed they would connect it by cable. He couldn't tell me how long the batteries would last or who/how they are replaced.
Hi
Our meters are around 25ft - 30ft apart and the upgrade was done for us.
Cheers
Paul
Quote from: PaulCheffus on July 22, 2016, 03:04:19 PM
Quote from: Tonye on July 21, 2016, 04:42:17 PM
:hellosign: Are these things compulsory? , So if I don`t leave the TV on standby and use the lights only when needed etc ,I`ll be paying more for my electricity because the meter runs on electric. :veryangry:
Hi
As far as I am aware the meter is powered by the input so doesn't go on your bill as the electricity it consumes doesn't go through the meter.
Cheers
Paul
:beers:
True. But the little user interface which displays energy usage etc. Is powered by a small 13amp mains adapter.
Quote from: austinbob on July 22, 2016, 03:43:41 PM
Quote from: PaulCheffus on July 22, 2016, 03:04:19 PM
Quote from: Tonye on July 21, 2016, 04:42:17 PM
:hellosign: Are these things compulsory? , So if I don`t leave the TV on standby and use the lights only when needed etc ,I`ll be paying more for my electricity because the meter runs on electric. :veryangry:
Hi
As far as I am aware the meter is powered by the input so doesn't go on your bill as the electricity it consumes doesn't go through the meter.
Cheers
Paul
:beers:
True. But the little user interface which displays energy usage etc. Is powered by a small 13amp mains adapter.
Hi
Which costs around 1p a day to run (which is cheaper than batteries) and you don't have to use it.
Cheers
Paul
Quote from: newportnobby on July 21, 2016, 01:56:19 PM
Had mine fitted about a month ago which surprised me as the mobile phone signal where I live is shocking for all providers.
I can check what 'juice' I use by the hour, day, week etc but as it's so warm at present it doesn't really tell me anything ::)
Quick question regarding your installation Sir Mick :-[
Does it take note and calculate your heart thingie (pacemaker?) in its results and usage?
Us uninitiated need to know such things?
Quote from: PaulCheffus on July 22, 2016, 03:48:59 PM
Quote from: austinbob on July 22, 2016, 03:43:41 PM
Quote from: PaulCheffus on July 22, 2016, 03:04:19 PM
Quote from: Tonye on July 21, 2016, 04:42:17 PM
:hellosign: Are these things compulsory? , So if I don`t leave the TV on standby and use the lights only when needed etc ,I`ll be paying more for my electricity because the meter runs on electric. :veryangry:
Hi
As far as I am aware the meter is powered by the input so doesn't go on your bill as the electricity it consumes doesn't go through the meter.
Cheers
Paul
:beers:
True. But the little user interface which displays energy usage etc. Is powered by a small 13amp mains adapter.
Hi
Which costs around 1p a day to run (which is cheaper than batteries) and you don't have to use it.
Cheers
Paul
Also true Paul but just consider, if you saved that 1p a day you could buy a new loco in about 40 years.
:)
Quote from: jonclox on July 22, 2016, 03:50:26 PM
Quote from: newportnobby on July 21, 2016, 01:56:19 PM
Had mine fitted about a month ago which surprised me as the mobile phone signal where I live is shocking for all providers.
I can check what 'juice' I use by the hour, day, week etc but as it's so warm at present it doesn't really tell me anything ::)
Quick question regarding your installation Sir Mick :-[
Does it take note and calculate your heart thingie (pacemaker?) in its results and usage?
Us uninitiated need to know such things?
The pacemaker/defibrillator runs from its own batteries which will need replacement every 7-8 years, Jon (will require 24hrs in hospital for that) so it takes no juice from the mains :no:
However, every Monday morning I have to transmit data from the defib via a black box (well, actually it's white) which runs on the mains and sends the data via a dongle to Boston Scientific. I am told it only uses £0.80 worth of electricity per annum.
I won't have one until they are made compulsory, for the simple reason they WILL charge higher prices at peak times and there will be no control over how much. Whatever they say now, if they can sooner or later they will.
Same with a water meter, I don't have one and won't be required to have one anytime soon thank goodness.
John
Quote from: JRS747 on July 23, 2016, 03:52:44 AM
I won't have one until they are made compulsory, for the simple reason they WILL charge higher prices at peak times and there will be no control over how much. Whatever they say now, if they can sooner or later they will.
Same with a water meter, I don't have one and won't be required to have one anytime soon thank goodness.
John
Hi
Whilst I enjoy my free electricity on Saturdays and Sundays.
Cheers
Paul
I have nothing but trouble getting my supplier to take my readings as correct rather than their wildly inaccurate over estimations so a smart meter seemed the way to go.
I understand though that if you switch provider, the smart bit won't work as they don't run on an 'industry-wide OS' (or whatever) so it reverts to a standard type. So much for us being encouraged to switch on a regular basis.
For now I'll stick with our ancient meter (no gas here out in the sticks) but switch provider at the end of the contract.
Dave G
Before we moved I delighted in teasing those people who stopped you at the exit to supermarkets to encourage you to change. They'd start with a line something like:-
'We can do your dual fuel cheaper than you pay at the moment.'
To which my reply was:-
'How much do you charge per tonne?'
This invariably got a bemused look, so I'd add:-
'Well I use electricity and coal so how much for a tonne of coal?'
Got them every single time and while I was wasting their time other shoppers were saved the bother.
The response of my friend when offered a dual supply is "Gas and electricity down the same pipe? I don't like the sound of that: it seems awfully dangerous to me!"
He says it usually ends the marketing attempt.
I suspect my current off-peak times (used for a storage heater, washer and dryer) will be changed to something unfavourable so I'm sticking with the old-fashioned meter until they force it on me. :
I'm with Crepello on this one , also there's grants for new boilers and heating systems but nothing towards replacing your existing night store heaters - most have been installed for 25 year plus and the recommend house re-wire is 25 years ???
Just a short update on this.
Today we received a letter sayiny that they are now installing these meters in our area......... :doh:
would we like one :doh:
Do you have a choice in the matter? I'd look very carefully into the off-peak switching times if I were you.
Quote from: crepello on September 02, 2016, 08:06:22 PM
Do you have a choice in the matter? I'd look very carefully into the off-peak switching times if I were you.
I don't think you have to have one yet!! I've had mine for several years now and found it very useful. I don't think the supplier can force you (yet!!) to go for any particular tariff whether it involves you in off peak or weekend saving or whatever (yet!!)
:beers:
I read that as from October this year, smart meters will be 'universal' in as much as they will now use a industry-wide standard system. This means should you switch supplier(s), the meter will now,unlike earlier versions, talk to the new supplier without any problems.
Dave G
Quote from: daveg on September 03, 2016, 08:24:24 AM
I read that as from October this year, smart meters will be 'universal' in as much as they will now use a industry-wide standard system. This means should you switch supplier(s), the meter will now,unlike earlier versions, talk to the new supplier without any problems.
Dave G
Not what they told me when they fitted mine.
Wonder if I'll get some even newer smart meters :hmmm:
Quote from: newportnobby on September 03, 2016, 12:41:57 PM
Quote from: daveg on September 03, 2016, 08:24:24 AM
I read that as from October this year, smart meters will be 'universal' in as much as they will now use a industry-wide standard system. This means should you switch supplier(s), the meter will now,unlike earlier versions, talk to the new supplier without any problems.
Dave G
Not what they told me when they fitted mine.
Wonder if I'll get some even newer smart meters :hmmm:
The meters already installed are the older type which I understand aren't smart enough to work with the new system that gets switched on in October. Not sure what you could do about that Mick other than ask if an upgrade is going to be available.
Dave G
I thought it was only the centralised data collection that was not going to be ready before October 2016. Once this is available then anybody with a smart meter should be able to swap to another provider and still make use of the smart meter functionality. Currently if you swap supplier you lose the functionality of the smart meter and have to provide manual readings.
Colin
Colin
[/quote]
Happy to be proved wrong Colin and trust that those with Smarts already installed will be able to switch should they want to.
Dave G
Getting smart meters fitted here soon by Endesa but crafty whatsits are not going to publish when lecky will be cheap as they are reserving to right to modify depending on load.
This means you will have no idea when to use it to save money, if everyone puts their washing machines on at say 0200 hrs then the load goes up and the price goes up. Crafty money grabbing :censored:
Although we don't use much in Spain, electricity is very, very expensive when you do use it.
Any chance of (more) solar, Caz?
Probably you have that already but we were impressed with recent info on the LG storage batteries. The ROI can be extended but the technology seems to be improving all the time.
Dave G
Quote from: daveg on September 04, 2016, 07:00:39 PM
Any chance of (more) solar, Caz?
The ROI can be extended but the technology seems to be improving all the time.
Dave G
It's amazing what they can do with land reclamation these days. ;)
Quote from: daveg on September 04, 2016, 07:00:39 PM
Any chance of (more) solar, Caz?
Probably you have that already but we were impressed with recent info on the LG storage batteries. The ROI can be extended but the technology seems to be improving all the time.
Dave G
No, haven't got solar, far too expensive to install for a pensioner like me plus the electric company now want you to pay them a fee as you don't use so much of their electricity. My daughter and son-in-law have a largish villa not far from me and they have solar and a big installation at that, almost independent but it cost him about 18,000 euro but can run all his pool and aircon etc.
Quote from: Caz on September 04, 2016, 10:44:52 PM
but can run all his pook and aircon etc.
Googling 'pook' has left me no wiser as I can't think you mean a pile of hay or a junkie, Caz :no:
Can you enlighten me please?
@Caz (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=202)
Now corrected, too late at night here. :)
Quote from: newportnobby on September 04, 2016, 10:52:27 PM
Quote from: Caz on September 04, 2016, 10:44:52 PM
but can run all his pook and aircon etc.
Googling 'pook' has left me no wiser as I can't think you mean a pile of hay or a junkie, Caz :no:
Can you enlighten me please?
@Caz (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=202)
Beatrice Lille used that word while playing the wicked Mrs Meers in Thoroughly Modern Millie when her evil plans went wrong. Sadly can't find a clip. So funny - must be an age thing!
Dave G
Don't fret, Caz... it took me two reads to pook up the typo :D
Lookout Caz!
We have smart meters in our part of Italy, it was a big roll out a few years back. "Cheap" electric from 20:00 till 08:00 and at weekends and holidays. Yeah still pay about E150 a month on average for a mid size house and just us 2. What will follow will be an onslaught of unsolicited calls from "Switch companies" about 3 calls a day when it all started.
I have been my "only speaky English",away on holiday, tourist, lodger, and have died a few times in response to these.
Rant over!
:-\ 40 minute phone call today means we are 'programmed' to go Smart on 31st of October this year
:uneasy: :-\
Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated into the collective >:D
Quote from: newportnobby on September 05, 2016, 08:08:21 PM
Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated into the collective >:D
A Borg Again consumer? ;)
Dave G
Quote from: newportnobby on September 05, 2016, 08:08:21 PM
Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated into the collective >:D
:worried: :wave: :goggleeyes:
Yoiks its nearly :help: smart meter day :help: can I avoid Monday mayhem I ask myself :help: :worried ?
/
Quote from: newportnobby on September 05, 2016, 08:08:21 PM
Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated into the collective >:D
No, it's not...it's volts divided by amps, Jean-Luc. ;D
"N Gauge, Number One!"
I was reading up on smart meters co-incidentally before this thread started and I'm not convinced by them at all so far. Mind you I'm pretty frugal with energy but I understand now why when I was a kid my Father used to scream at me for leaving everything on, all the windows open and radiators on full. Smart meters cost to run, everything I've seen is they push up the unit cost for everyone to account for the charges -I remember seeing maybe 2 countries refused the mandatory roll-out so far over concerns of costs and privacy. I'm already paying allot for my energy because of my location despite having so many hydro schemes and wind farms around Inverness -I'll be darned if I'm paying a penny more when the equivalent tarriff in the central belt is 15-20% cheaper. If they become mandatory then good luck getting a mobile signal at my house and in no way will I let them connect to my broadband unless they pay for the connection.
:goggleeyes: wow what a crazy 2 hours that was.
First a Virgin hot air balloon surveyed the village and then landed just down the road on the football pitches.
Next a SSE van went back and forwards along the road util Ann managed to wave hard enough at the driver and he backed into our driveway
Only 1 driver/operator but within minutes a clipboard carrying overseer apeared out of the blue and set about supervising any and everything.
Took exactly 2 hours to instal, setup explain everything to us all.
Nice slick job done and I think we are satisfied although they will have to come back because the ditnt set up the water meter thingie ::)