N Gauge Forum

Hi I have had an idea to do a complete kit, my first has failed for now as it was a standard building kit to be launched at the end of Janurary. But having discussed this with my better half we have come up with this idea.
A basic wagon, unpainted
tubs of paint
brush
transfers - probably a genuin livery and a load of numbers and letters to creat your own livery.

Would this if sold on my trade stand encourage children to conside modelling and more important N gauge?

Over to you..

I would have said maybe: Think it would be dependant on several factors.
1)  Price
2) Type of wagon
3) Health and Safety ( Paints - i know stuff like Railmatch is Toxic due to the Lead in the paint.)
4) What potential Age group would you be aiming for?




Just my thoughts.

All thoughts are good
maybe the 8+

hi richard  :wave:

i would have thought it could go someway to encourage kids (both small and the big kids amongst us) to have a go at  :NGAUGE:

just one thought are you thinking of also selling the kits seperate otherwise they could end up with loads of paint, brushes, etc
with nothing to do with them

i also agree with Oldman's comments on price, etc

hope it all works out for you

dave  :thumbsup:

It's a tough question though and I have no doubt that quite a few kids would like a wagon kit.

I would think on balance that it is more likely to be the loco that would switch kids on rather than a wagon. I would also guess that livery etc would appeal to someone already into the hobby.

anything that gets kids involved is a good idea in my eyes :thumbsup: if my father had never got me a oo class 58 set many years ago for christmas i probably would never have the interest i do now.if you go for this i will take two please :thumbsup:

Definatley worth trying  :thumbsup:   ...........  of course  after costing the items have a  standard price &  allow kids to choose  paint colours  from  as range  &  even kits  if possble

Don't think that kids are the right market for this or that it will tempt them to N gauge. These are my reasons:

Kids will want to see the wagon being pulled by a train on the track - so they will need a starter set first.
Kids have been brought up in the modern era so would probably be looking for something that they recognise - like a Pendolino or Tornado.

The truck idea may be of interest to kids already have an N gauge set.

As a suggestion, how about making a clip-together Annie or Clarabel or a Troublesome truck. Or the truck idea could be marketed at existing N gauge users who are nervous about making a model from scratch.

But this is only my opinion, you will need to find out what the kids want and what they are buying in OO gauge now.

Quote from: Pendy on January 01, 2012, 06:22:03 PM

As a suggestion, how about making a clip-together Annie or Clarabel or a Troublesome truck. Or the truck idea could be marketed at existing N gauge users who are nervous about making a model from scratch.

Before I got to Pendy's post I was thinking (a) this 58 year old kid would be interested in what you're thinking of doing and (b) if it was a clip together Thomas the Tank series type truck plus detailing, demand might be higher.
However, I too am doubtful kids will actually go for a truck unless they have the wherewithal to site it/pull it.

It all depends. Not all of them are into playstations etc. Some kids like building kits. I was just on the Airfix Facebook page and there's a youngster building a Canberra, not something he's likely to have seen.

I think the licensing cost for the Thomas range would be rather high and the rights holders are well known for litigating against unlicensed use of their brand.

I suppose to a certain extent the accuracy (face, name etc) are secondary to a blue 060 tank that 'looks' right.

What about a small range. the wagon kits forming a part of it. you could then offer a generic chassis (like a kato tram chassis) then several interchangeable bodies, plus static chassis for locos not in use.

the range could include a sound box for that extra dimention.

You could base it on the Kato track so that its competitive with the scalextric crowd and can be set up on a table top after sunday dinner.

I think that a standard kit cheaper (but of similar quality) aimed in general at the N gauge market would be a far better option.

After all, everyone likes a bargain especially in the current climate.

what about polyurathane foam moulded bodies (when cast in a mould you would get a smooth skin for painting) then a simple chassis like the peco ones

Shouldn't you ask the kids not us  8)

Poliss has a good point that not all kids build what they know. When I was a kid I built WWII aircraft and had steam trains, none of which I had ever seen.   Many would prefer modern though.

But the main problem for me is that to introduce kids to the hobby, they will want the loco first (wagons later).  The Farish starter set with the 0-6-0 Pannier got one of my boys into N gauge.  I think the essence of the hobby at the start is the excitement of seeing the engine move on the track (and probably most of us don't ever lose that).

So I think I have to agree with Pendy...

Quote from: Pendy on January 01, 2012, 06:22:03 PM

Don't think that kids are the right market for this or that it will tempt them to N gauge. These are my reasons:

Kids will want to see the wagon being pulled by a train on the track - so they will need a starter set first.

The truck idea may be of interest to kids already have an N gauge set.

I'm just glad you lot weren't advising Nicholas Kove in 1948.  :smiley-laughing:

One problem is that model trains are all clearly labelled as "not toys and not for children under 14", due to the Toy Safety Regulations and EU health and safety brigade, so yours would have to be "toys" to be able to sell to 8 year olds, and not what we would regard as proper rolling stock. When I first read your post I immediately thought of a Peco kit plus paint and transfers, but these contain small parts so not for under 3 year olds under the regulations, but otherwise OK. Most manufacturers prefer to call them "not toys" so fall into the over 14 bracket. Probably the best way round this is to do it with O gauge, which has much bigger parts.

Quote from: Kipper on January 02, 2012, 05:08:02 PM
Probably the best way round this is to do it with O gauge, which has much bigger parts.

Doesn't avoid the need to do all the legwork on compliance and paperwork though.

Alan

On the Airfix website it says about their kits, "This product is suitable for ages 8 to adult."

Airfix kits and the like are aged for ability rather than "small parts" legal warnings. N gauge wagons will always have small parts, but O gauge would probably escape that, if designed with care. Still never been able to work out why model railways are 14+ age group, i.e. not toys, especially with the Thomas ranges.

EC Toy Safety Directive explains it all.
http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/sectors/toys/files/tsd-guidance/tsd_rev_1-3_explanatory_guidance_document_en.pdf (http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/sectors/toys/files/tsd-guidance/tsd_rev_1-3_explanatory_guidance_document_en.pdf)
Note that kits are not considered as toys.

Quote from: poliss on January 02, 2012, 09:52:14 PM
Note that kits are not considered as toys.

That would far too simple, and this is an EU directive which means it resembles an explosion in a spaghetti factory and is about as clear as marmite. For example a live steam locomotive is not a toy, but a diesel powered one probably is (unless it is designed to run on the road instead of on track in which case its not again). Even more confusingly while a toy steam engine is basically not a toy for the purpose of the directive a non-toy one that could mistaken as a toy could be subject to the directive !

Does your head hurt yet ?

Now 10.1.2 does specifically cover exemptions and for model kits and RTR they apply for

- detailed and faithful scale models (which quite franky ought to eliminate a few products currently on the market)
- kits for the assembly of same
- historical replicas of toys

However those clauses only apply IF the packaging clearly carries a visible and legible indication that it is intended for collectors of 14 years of age or older. For stuff pre-dating the regulations this also applies so you need sticky labels on old stock.

(as an aside - freelance models are *not* covered by such an exemption in the directive text or Annex, nor are inaccurate ones, so if you are doing freelance model kits - welcome to the EU madhouse)

Unfortunately one of the big problems of this well intentioned insanity is that parents now generally assume all 'adult only' labels are lies for insurance purposes, including the ones which are not. For many products it is not commercially viable to go through all the paperwork and form filling, safety testing and register management so everyone just goes for the exemptions whether it would pass child safety or not.

(And yes even if you could afford it the insurance cost would kill you anyway)

The equivalent US legislation is its own work of joy and delight but fairly similar

Distance selling rules also matter to most small sellers, and if you are doing things with electronics - eg commercially fitting DCC decoders it's my understanding that you must use non-leaded solder for the electrical bits.

Alan