I was talking to my father the other day about new loco releases, and said I couldn't understand why the manufacturers had ignored Scottish engines. His reply - "Because there are far more modellers in the South-East than in Scotland". I hadn't thought of it like that, but looking around I get the impression that many modellers tend to build models based in an area they know well, often the place where they live. So just out of curiosity, a question for forum members - what geographical area is your model set in, and why did you choose it?
My own layouts tend to be set in North Northumberland. I first visited the area some thirty years ago and fell in love with it. Also heavily inspired by the layouts that Ian Futers built in the 1970s (Otterburn, Longwitton etc).
Although I used to live in Wolverton on what is now the WCML, I travelled to Oxford many times as a youthful trainspotter, mainly because you could see traction from 4 regions there - WR, SR, LMR and ER.
My main layout 'Kimbolted' is subsequently based very loosely in the Oxford area, although it does cost me rather a lot as, not only do I have 4 regions to cope with, but I also have 2 eras (1950s and 1960s[pre BR Blue]).
There's not a huge amount of difference between the 2 eras but enough to make life fun!
Wotcanappen is purely fictitious and as such rule 1 will always apply. Martini Holt is loosely based around the area west of Swindon and if you can find that well done
Graham :thankyousign:
Foster Street is set in the 40's in the Northwest so mostly LMS for me, as for why, all you need to do is look at a Crimson Jubilee or Duchess....need I say more? :laugh3:
Came from up that way, Durham /Northumberland.
Love layouts that capture the atmosphere. :thumbsup:
I grew up at Maidenhead, the original terminus of the GWR out of Paddington. I road on the Marlow branchline a few times and was intrigued by the closed section from Bourne End to High Wycombe. I guess my love of all engines with copper caps started there.
I also have a soft spot for NSE in the sectorisation era as those are the trains I grew up riding. The 321 was my favourite EMU for quite a while. The Revolution model looks ever so tempting but sadly I lack the funds to model a second totally different era/area. :(
My layout is based on a station a few miles from where I live in South Warwickshire between Warwick and Stratford-upon-Avon. I liked the idea of doing somewhere local, I also wanted a simple track plan (as it was my first layout) and something with good availability of suitable RTR stock. There is plenty of stock for GWR and BR Western Region lines available new or second hand, which certainly swayed my choice.
I wanted a mix of steam and diesel power which is why my layout is based (roughly) in the 1960s. Although it can be anything from 1945 to 2000 if I want.
If I were to start another project it would probably be based on somewhere I already know, which could be Western, Midland or Southern. I don't have enough experience of Eastern or Scottish region railways for them to capture my imagination.
@paulprice (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=4342) I do 'get' the love of LMS, my most prized loco when I was young was a Hornby Class 5 in non-prototypical but very handsome Crimson. It was probably an odd choice for a boy living in the South East but I think that's why it appealed. Crimson locos and coaches seemed a world away from blue/grey electric multiple units. Although I think the LMS used to run the Gravesend-Tilbury ferry, which connected with the London-Tilbury-Southend railway line (way before my time) on the other side of the river from where I grew up.
Quote from: belstone on June 21, 2016, 09:48:15 AM
So just out of curiosity, a question for forum members - what geographical area is your model set in, and why did you choose it?
Errm areas - Japan, Germany and the UK. As I've lived in all three countries and like the trains. All three are orientated to areas I live / have lived in/am familiar with, and which had/have an interesting variety of trains an history, so it feels natural to orientate myself to that. Had I spent most of my life in locales less inspiring in railway terms, I suppose I would have searched further afield for inspiration. I do occasionally collect trains outside of my core interests, I seem to have ended up with a small fleet of US locomotives as they were dirt cheap and kind of interesting, but don't feel the slightest urge to model anything American as it's all foreign to me. Though I could say the same of Scottish trains or those funny 3rd rail things they have south of the Thames.
Period is also a factor - not having lived in the UK since the early 1990s all these fanciful post-privatisation liveries and class 60-something diesels are mightily strange to me, so my British collection is orientated towards the BR blue/sectorisation I'm familiar with.
I'm modelling the area local to me (albeit fictional) but in an earlier era - 50s/60s ex-L&Y/LMS. I did briefly consider doing a GWR layout, because I really like the look of the stock, but there was no other reason to do so (I don't really know the area at all).
My dad (who died 9 years ago) used to model LMS, but in OO gauge. I now find myself buying rolling stock in N that he had (and that I played with a lot) in OO, and it reminds me of him, and those times. Without wishing to get all soppy, it's made me realise just how much I miss him.
Quote from: belstone on June 21, 2016, 09:48:15 AMI was talking to my father the other day about new loco releases, and said I couldn't understand why the manufacturers had ignored Scottish engines
What do you define as a "Scottish engine"?
I define it is a locomotive built in Scotland
I had to go to a museum to see a "real one"
However, if you mean a locomotive "operating in Scotland", then what era / period?
I agree there is a minority of coverage, but it is there
Personally, a RTR (ready to run) model is just a base, like a model kit
Take it out of the box, then change it to what you need
My current layout is based on Glasgow Queen Street in the late 1980s / early 1990s
At the moment I have just five "unmodified" locomotives, but that proves they do exist
Quote from: mjkerr on June 21, 2016, 11:34:58 AM
What do you define as a "Scottish engine"?
I define it is a locomotive built in Scotland
I had to go to a museum to see a "real one"
However, if you mean a locomotive "operating in Scotland", then what era / period?
I agree there is a minority of coverage, but it is there
I was thinking steam rather than diesel - having said which there doesn't seem to have been much interest in the proposed crowdfunded NBL Class 29 which counts as throughly Scottish in all respects.
Steam wise there is nothing in OO let alone N for the North British, Caledonian, Highland, GNoS or GSWR. All those lovely 4-4-0s with beautiful names and ornate liveries, and not even a hint that any manufacturer might think them worth producing. As far as I can tell the only Scottish pre-grouping loco ever made RTR was the old Triang Caley single.
My layouts have all been based in God's country the southwest of our fair country, Why because I am a westcountry person having lived most of my life in Devon,Cornwall,Wiltshire. I have lived else where Scotland,Kent,Hampshire and Gibraltar but the westcountry is home.
Quote from: jrb on June 21, 2016, 11:03:57 AM
My dad (who died 9 years ago) used to model LMS, but in OO gauge. I now find myself buying rolling stock in N that he had (and that I played with a lot) in OO, and it reminds me of him, and those times. Without wishing to get all soppy, it's made me realise just how much I miss him.
I can relate to that, jrb. I have two OO locos that I inherited from a good friend who was a father figure to many more than just his immediate family. One is a Fowler/Hughes Crab and the other is a Royal Scott; I have an N gauge Crab and will get a Graham Farish Scott at some point.
Mine have always been based around the East Dorset area, a couple have been based on prototype locations but most on the lines of "Based on" or "What if " scenarios.
East Dorset is homeland for me, train spotting in 1940s set me firmly on SR/LMS (S&DJR) stock. First layouts were set in late 50s, as there was not enough pure SR stock available then, but I've gradually shifted the time back to 1930s I don't like Malachite!
Quote from: mjkerr on June 21, 2016, 11:34:58 AM
What do you define as a "Scottish engine"?
I define it is a locomotive built in Scotland
I had to go to a museum to see a "real one"
Oh, I think you're being deliberately mischievous there! I think you'd agree a Class 26 or 27 is a Scottish diesel, notwithstanding their short term use around London. The 26s and 27s were built in the Midlands, so by your standard they're not Scottish, but so far as the modeller goes, you'd need to be modelling a very specific time and place to put them on anything other than a Scottish (or at least Borders) layout.
Conversely, the Western Region's Class 22s were built in Glasgow, which is definitely in Scotland, but would you consider them a Scottish locomotive? I think not. In fact I'm pretty sure that the Glaswegian manufacturers provided locomotives to the various parts of the British Empire as well as places like Argentina and Japan.
Quote from: Dorsetmike on June 21, 2016, 01:22:20 PM
East Dorset is homeland for me, train spotting in 1940s set me firmly on SR/LMS (S&DJR) stock. First layouts were set in late 50s, as there was not enough pure SR stock available then, but I've gradually shifted the time back to 1930s I don't like Malachite!
I do think Dorsetmike nails it here. There's a massive amount of nostalgia involved in selecting a region. Sometimes it's not even real nostalgia, but a longing for something that passed before the modeller got to see it. My first love is the diesel hydraulics of the Western Region, and while I've seen them on preserved railways, I was a bit too young to "spot" them in the wild. So my layouts tend to combine diesel hydraulics with the beautiful Quantocks countryside I did grow up enjoying.
That said, I'm totally happy to run a loco I like on any layout. My current project may be Somerset-centred, but that doesn't stop me running a Swiss 'Krokodil' and Pullman coaches when I want to!
Rule #1 overrules everything else.Cheers, NeMo
Although I was bought up in Finsbury Park and only a few hundred yards from the railway out of Kings Cross (Eastern?) I model mainly the GWR with a hint of Southern. The GWR and Southern was the only thing I remember when I was little in that those trains took me on holiday which was a very exciting time. ::)
I was brought up on the Southern but really only started to notice when I was travelling all over so the actual region is not that important. I don't count rivets but I do like to have a coherent looking roster albeit in a fictional location which I suppose does defeat the purpose anyway.
It was the promise of a class 108 from Farish, a class 33 from Dapol, magnetic uncoupling from Farish and Dapol (what happened to Farish's promise ?) and quite a few existing Tops blue era stuff that converted me (back) to N.
The lack of supply of promised stuff is worse in N than in 00, but I didn't realize that at the time. I think both 00 and N are suffering more now than a few years ago in terms of actual releases of product.
Although still not as far as laying track, my layout's location could best be described as 'within 15 miles of Chester'. Firmly rooted in my memory of seven years to and from school on the train in the mid 70s to early 80s. Blue diesels all the way!
It is more of a Time & Place thing for me than just Trains, though fortunately the two threads do tie in :D
Ex GW lines in the south west, specifically Cornwall, era is anytime for general interest, but each layout has to be pretty specific, I'm not really much of a Rule #1 sort....... ;)
I have a passing interest in all sorts of railways, but not quite to the same degree as the GWR.
Maybe a bit of Banger Blue in Sheffield, but again that is more a Sheffield Thing than a Trains Thing.....
Quote from: NeMo on June 21, 2016, 05:20:57 PM
the Western Region's Class 22s were built in Glasgow, which is definitely in Scotland, but would you consider them a Scottish locomotive?
Yes, but again you need to go to a museum to see one (well bits of one!)
Quote from: mjkerr on June 21, 2016, 09:15:42 PM
Quote from: NeMo on June 21, 2016, 05:20:57 PM
the Western Region's Class 22s were built in Glasgow, which is definitely in Scotland, but would you consider them a Scottish locomotive?
Yes, but again you need to go to a museum to see one (well bits of one!)
There are still some bits left? New build project ahoy! Seriously, it would be nice to see a North British diesel running, even a replica. As far as I know the only survivor from NBL's entire post-steam output (apart from a couple of shunters) is a Class 84 electric, and I can't see that returning to the WCML any time soon.
Quote from: belstone on June 21, 2016, 09:24:04 PM
Quote from: mjkerr on June 21, 2016, 09:15:42 PM
Quote from: NeMo on June 21, 2016, 05:20:57 PM
the Western Region's Class 22s were built in Glasgow, which is definitely in Scotland, but would you consider them a Scottish locomotive?
Yes, but again you need to go to a museum to see one (well bits of one!)
There are still some bits left? New build project ahoy! Seriously, it would be nice to see a North British diesel running, even a replica. As far as I know the only survivor from NBL's entire post-steam output (apart from a couple of shunters) is a Class 84 electric, and I can't see that returning to the WCML any time soon.
Quote from: NeMo on June 21, 2016, 05:20:57 PM
Conversely, the Western Region's Class 22s were built in Glasgow, which is definitely in Scotland, but would you consider them a Scottish locomotive? I think not. In fact I'm pretty sure that the Glaswegian manufacturers provided locomotives to the various parts of the British Empire as well as places like Argentina and Japan.
At the risk of going off topic - an NBL survivor in Japan, imported here in the 1920s as one of a small batch:
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/18/main_28930.jpg)
It's still preserved and has been externally restored to original condition, though apparently the internals bear very little resemblance to what was delivered. Was running excursion trains up until about 10 years ago.
Quote from: belstone on June 21, 2016, 09:24:04 PM
There are still some bits left? New build project ahoy! Seriously, it would be nice to see a North British diesel running, even a replica.
Then the Class 22 Project would interest you...
http://project22society.co.uk (http://project22society.co.uk)
Flipping this back to the original topic, I dare say a lot of layouts have been built around the Class 22/D6300. They're the classic small West Country diesel, more strongly associated with branchlines than any of the other hydraulics, as well as typical haulage power for interesting types of traffic like milk and china clay.
One thing that the Scottish modellers may well be right about is that either a Class 21/29 or a Class 17 could both prompt similar sorts of layouts set in Scotland that aren't, at the moment, easily modelled. On the steam side of things there do seem to be a variety of 0-6-0 tender engines that you could build a Scottish branchline around.
Of course the parallel isn't perfect. West Country layouts are popular, and the Dapol Class 22 simply made it easier to do one properly. There doesn't seem to be that same level of popularity for Scottish layouts for whatever reason. It may be the lack of appropriate motive power, but then again, it might be they're just not as familiar among the majority of modellers and/or perceived to be as interesting.
Cheers, NeMo
Hi Richard
I think you might know the my anser, but here goes.
as others have said, period is as important as place. My steam era stuff is Scottish, on the GSWR in BR days. Plenty of stock for that; black 5s, royal scots, crabs, 4mts etc.
My (club) modern era layout is ECML in north yorkshire - Northallerton in link below. Loads of stock for that, in fact very little isnt available, only 185s (and that is getting 3ded) and the Adelantes and I think that is available in 3d. Some wagons are lacking, but not much.
Cheers
Kirky
Quote from: NeMo on June 22, 2016, 06:17:35 AM
Quote from: mjkerr on June 21, 2016, 09:15:42 PM
There are still some bits left? New build project ahoy! Seriously, it would be nice to see a North British diesel running, even a replica.
Then the Class 22 Project would interest you...
That is not my quote...
Quote from: mjkerr on June 22, 2016, 08:13:38 AM
Quote from: NeMo on June 22, 2016, 06:17:35 AM
Quote from: mjkerr on June 21, 2016, 09:15:42 PM
There are still some bits left? New build project ahoy! Seriously, it would be nice to see a North British diesel running, even a replica.
Then the Class 22 Project would interest you...
That is not my quote...
Sorry about all the inconvenience caused. I hope that I have not caused any undue distress, and once again, my most profound apologies.
Cheers, NeMo
I live and was born in Southend on Sea yet I model BR's Midland region in the late 50's /early 60's as I wanted a Canal and there are none in Essex and I also love the variety of Architecture in that region , strangely it's an area I know by having visited it not well at all , I know the Northeast and I know the West country and Southern England in general yet I chose that region not because it was easy but perhaps more because it to me was hard .
Quote from: NeMo on June 22, 2016, 09:19:57 AM
Sorry about all the inconvenience caused. I hope that I have not caused any undue distress, and once again, my most profound apologies
Not fussed, just pointing it out and give you the opportunity to edit the post to correct username
I know I was mis-quoted recently in the Press!
Equally, found someone credited as someone else in the Press, they could have checked first!
When I started in N gauge in 1975/76 there was little available RTR. My chosen area was, and still is, the ex GER mainline through Colchester and Ipswich.
RTR locos that were suitable were basically Minitrix 'Britannias', Farish J67s ( I still think they are J67 and not J69-look at the placing of the safety valves-and are much missed) and Lima class 31s..........and later, kit built 37, 47, and some steam classes.
I have been very fortunate, though, that I the last few years a lot of ex-LNER steam and suitable diesel locos have become available.
Martyn
Well I am a southerner born and bred in Pompey, two miles from Fratton. In OO I took what I could get Dad to buy be in the 1960s, so Winston Churchill and an M7 alongside a Brush type 2, a B12 and a Britannia. But I did have some green coaches.
Then I started in N in 1970 with a Jubilee, Britannia and Warship! This evolved into Minitrix class 27s modified to look like 33s, and Ivatt 2-MT tanks, and a Spitfire BB.
Most of my stock is now 10 years or less in age, as I have kept pace with the fantastic changes in our hobby over the past ten years. I now model the Southern with a layout based on a location near Eastleigh (Bishopstoke) with an EMU shed (Fratton), a steam and diesel MPD (Fratton meets Hither Green), NO GOODS FACILITIES (Its the southern - right - we don't do goods!) and a couple of tunnels each end (Southampton central and Upwey near Weymouth inspired).
I have always modelled what I grew up with, and started to focus on the transition period. Then when I had everything I wanted in that period (some time mid 1990s) I decided to do 1970s blue grey, and now have two eras. Then this latter era stretched to sectorisation, NSE and Eurostar. I am now cutting back this horribly modern timeline for cost and storage reasons, and a desire to go back to my roots and have more steam on the layout. the new Dapol 33s/Schools/promised Bullieds and the Farish MN and 4-CEPs are simply delightful, and as for Bullied and Maunsell coaches, well.... and then add the three UM southern locos...almost spoilt for choice.
So the 156s/158s/159s/Eurostar will probably have to go as I already have too many foreign visitors (22s/Warships/Hymeks/Westerns) and my end date will probably be mid 80s to allow me to have a 59 in original Foster Yeoman livery. I love aggregate trains. No shunting! I do bend the timelines a lot but not so much the regional bias.
Bob
FWIW (and as one who 'freelances' in 'N') when attempting to determine where 'my' railway was to be placed (the options being NZ, Australia, USA, UK, Continental Europe or even 'Somewhere East of Suez'), I repeatedly came back to two questions: 'What area do I know most about?' and what 'railway' do I know most about'?
The answer, no matter how I framed it (and tried strenuously to avoid) was always 'my own country' and 'my own local railway system'. This realisation (which took literally years to finally sink in) eventually formed the basis for what subsequently occurred, and the development of NZN-Freelance.
On that basis therefore (and if the literature is to be believed) it would seem that we tend to 'model what we know' and while this may not be our immediate local area, it is usually somewhere within our own regional or national borders.
All of which means (of course) that those who model 'other countries railways' (the US in particular) probably put in double the effort when compared to us who model our own 'local / national' scene. On that basis, the 'locals' would seem to get off relatively lightly...
As I said, FWIW; it's an interesting topic.
For years I'd been waiting for the right models so that I could model my home turf but modern, post 1990, Southern region stuff wasn't on the horizon. I wanted refurbed CEPs, EPBs, VEPs. MLVs etc. Oh and a decent Crompton.
So I thought with what's available where could I model, the answer I came up with was the West Midlands.
Plenty of DMUs could be had, I have 150s, 153s, 156s, 158s and 170s. How long would a hard pressed Southern modeller have to wait for five different classes to be available rtr?
As for locos and freight well almost anything goes around Brum so having more than I can run at one time means I can ring the changes to keep from getting bored.
OK so I have a fictitious layout, but then again who hasn't, which is my Rule 1 on which I attempt to run prototypical trains.
If my layout is ever thought good enough to be invited to an exhibition at least the punters will see something a lot more modern to look at than the usual fare round here of 009 mineral lines and GWR BLTs.
And of course for the "next" layout I have a couple of Pendolinos on order to go along with my 350s.
Nigel
There's a pattern developing here, and the pattern says my Dad was right. People model what they know. I'm not sure that was always the case - 30 years ago everyone seemed to be doing Great Western branch lines or the LMS regardless of where they lived - but maybe that had more to do with the very limited range of RTR stuff in any scale. I would take a guess that there are more modellers in the South-East than anywhere else, but not long ago there was almost nothing available for the Southern. That is no longer so.
Maybe my next layour should be set in Lincolnshire seeing as that is where I grew up. Actually that's not a bad idea (rushes off to research the Horncastle branch on the Internet.)
If only the right RTR stock was available I'd love to have a crack at modelling Wolverton station as it was in the 1960s before they ruined it, as in very close proximity was a canal, the football stadium and BR tennis club a stones throw to the west of the fast lines and to the south there was the carriage & wagon works with its 'subway' entrance/exit along with the branch line to Newport Pagnell via Bradwell and the turning triangle.
Sadly I can't see anyone making the AM4/AM10 OHLEs I used to travel on so much :(
If EM1/2s were on the market a Manchester-Sheffield-Wath layout would also be on the cards!
As I live in a small bungalow perhaps it's just as well these are pipedreams.
EMUs are still a black hole for RTR. Probably because there were so many different designs all confined to small areas. Still I would have thought the Mk2 family EMUs (310 / 312) would sell well enough. They turned up in lots of places and had a long life. I sketched out a layout based on Hadley Wood in the late Deltic era which would be fabulous, but without 312s it isn't going to happen.
Quote from: belstone on June 22, 2016, 09:44:32 PM
There's a pattern developing here, and the pattern says my Dad was right. People model what they know. I'm not sure that was always the case - 30 years ago everyone seemed to be doing Great Western branch lines or the LMS regardless of where they lived - but maybe that had more to do with the very limited range of RTR stuff in any scale. I would take a guess that there are more modellers in the South-East than anywhere else, but not long ago there was almost nothing available for the Southern. That is no longer so.
Maybe my next layour should be set in Lincolnshire seeing as that is where I grew up. Actually that's not a bad idea (rushes off to research the Horncastle branch on the Internet.)
I was kind of thinking the same thing me self, that there seems to be almost no GWR layouts. Surprising that. We don't tend to see so many GWR layouts up here but they do still appear with regularity in the modelling press.
Cheers
Kirky
kirky:
Re: 'We don't tend to see so many GWR layouts up here..'. Unsurprising really, they've all been exported to the colonies. Rest assured that the GWR (in all scales) is very much alive and living in New Zealand...
There ARE an awful lot of them around. Not exactly sure why; perhaps expats were so attached to them that they brought them with them when they left Home...
Thought you might like to know; England's loss is NZ's gain... :)
Thanks Komata. Interesting indeed. Still dont believe that most expats are from the south west corner of Britain though.
I guess with Peco being based in Devon, then we should expect Railway Modeller to be weighted towards that region. But that still doesnt explain why on this thread GWR seems to be under reprresented?
Cheers
Kirky
Quote from: kirky on June 23, 2016, 07:12:40 AM
Thanks Komata. Interesting indeed. Still dont believe that most expats are from the south west corner of Britain though.
I guess with Peco being based in Devon, then we should expect Railway Modeller to be weighted towards that region. But that still doesnt explain why on this thread GWR seems to be under reprresented?
Small sample size?
If it helps, the British part of my layout will be set in a semi-fictional ex-GWR location, albeit not a bucolic branch line, more urban grit (or grot depending on point of view and temporal setting). I even have some GWR-style fencing somewhere.
My layouts have always been set in my home County of Leicestershire. I have plans in my head for future layouts and they are also set in the same area. It confirms my view that, as for most modellers of my age group, I am re-creating what I remember from my trainspotting days.
I'm originally from the area of the country described as "that narrow band of civilisation that separates Scotland from Yorkshire"- i.e. the real North East. Not such a narrow band as Darlington to Berwick is almost 100 miles....
So what area was my first post retirement layout based on? - the Black Forest of course.
Since then I've returned to my home county for Hawthorn Dene - which is made up of two words both of which seem beyond the ability of southerners to spell correctly.
An excursion into OO is nearly ready for showing. This is also based on County Durham - "No Place", which is a village near Beamish Museum also known as Co-operative Villas.
Back to N, and construction has started on yet another County Durham layout, Croft Spa, this time modelled on a real location rather than an impression of it. It is also on the East Coast Main Line allowing me the excuse to run ex-LNER big engines on proper big trains in the right setting.
All I need is a B16, an Ivatt 4MT and Thompson coaches, plus Dave Jones's Q6 and Clayton and I have all the trains I need. The advantage of keeping to a theme..
Les
An odd route back to the N after 40+ years.
Last year I was watching Better Call Saul (the prequel to Breaking Bad) and the main character came into Albuquerque by train. Curious, I looked it up and found this awesome picture of the Super Chief in 1943. Still addicted and some thousands of pounds lighter!
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/41/4485-240616161720.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=41372)
My present layout is German. I've visited on holiday a few times, but never lived there. My next layout is going to be set in Doggerland, as it may have been if the North Sea hadn't appeared! This will allow me to run French, 3 locos and some rolling stock, German some 30 locos and lots of stock and British, some 35 locos plus rolling stock, into the same 'Doggerland' station. All I need then is an excuse to run some Japanese trains...