Hi! if this topic is not right in this section please feel free to move...
I bought a Tomix chassis in ebay some weeks ago from plazajapan. Just 16 quid, great deal.
Yesterday I got a card from the Post Office asking me to pay 11.30 quid of pending customs charge... :goggleeyes: :o :(
70% of TAX!!!
Is this possible to challenge? am I helpless?? is this a clear abuse or is this the norm? the first time it happens, and I got a quite bulky parcel from plazajapan a year ago totally free of charge...
Thanks for your help / support
£8 of the charge is Royal Mail's handling fee. Unofrtunately you are just above the tax level of £15 so you pay VAT on £16. The maount looks right.
You don't always get caught when receiving goods from outside the EU.
I'm in Holland, but I expect the system is similar in the UK: the charge will be VAT plus a flat-rate handling fee, which on small items works out expensive. The fact that a shipment got through without a customs charge is the luck of the draw, I'm afraid.
Quote from: red_death on May 19, 2016, 02:43:20 PM
£8 of the charge is Royal Mail's handling fee.
And before the OP jumps up and down at Royal Mail for that handling fee it doesn't
actually go into Royal Mail's profits, it goes straight to the Government the same as the VAT charge does.
Paul
Thanks for that... it's true, 8 quid is "handling fee" :veryangry: :censored: :censored:
Handling=keep it a day in the depot :veryangry:
Quote from: Sprintex on May 19, 2016, 02:50:00 PM
Quote from: red_death on May 19, 2016, 02:43:20 PM
£8 of the charge is Royal Mail's handling fee.
And before the OP jumps up and down at Royal Mail for that handling fee it doesn't actually go into Royal Mail's profits, it goes straight to the Government the same as the VAT charge does.
Paul
:laughabovepost:
too late!! I jumped up and down... but then... does not that equate to TAX under another name? then my original post is correct... 70% TAX!
Quote from: deibid on May 19, 2016, 02:52:45 PM
Quote from: Sprintex on May 19, 2016, 02:50:00 PM
Quote from: red_death on May 19, 2016, 02:43:20 PM
£8 of the charge is Royal Mail's handling fee.
And before the OP jumps up and down at Royal Mail for that handling fee it doesn't actually go into Royal Mail's profits, it goes straight to the Government the same as the VAT charge does.
Paul
:laughabovepost:
too late!! I jumped up and down... but then... does not that equate to TAX under another name? then my original post is correct... 70% TAX!
Correct ;)
Paul
I know this is the family friendly forum but is hard not to :censored: and :censored: in this :censored: case.
I hope the chassis runs perfectly and serves the purpose of motorizing what I have in mind...
Quote from: Sprintex on May 19, 2016, 02:50:00 PM
Quote from: red_death on May 19, 2016, 02:43:20 PM
£8 of the charge is Royal Mail's handling fee.
And before the OP jumps up and down at Royal Mail for that handling fee it doesn't actually go into Royal Mail's profits, it goes straight to the Government the same as the VAT charge does.
Sorry Paul, but from what I can tell that is not correct - it is the fee RM charges for administering the service to HMRC and does stay with RM.
From HMRC's website: "If customs charges are payable upon importation, Royal Mail will charge a handling fee to cover the costs for carrying out customs procedures, which includes paying any customs duties or VAT due and collecting it from you. If customs examination is required, or if information is missing from the declaration, Royal Mail open, repack and reseal the package. All international courier and postal operators charge fees for their services and HMRC and Border Force does not have any authority over the level of charges they apply."
Quote from: Sprintex on May 19, 2016, 02:50:00 PM
And before the OP jumps up and down at Royal Mail for that handling fee it doesn't actually go into Royal Mail's profits, it goes straight to the Government the same as the VAT charge does.
Do you have evidence for that, Paul? On https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/notice-143-a-guide-for-international-post-users/notice-143-a-guide-for-international-post-users#charges (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/notice-143-a-guide-for-international-post-users/notice-143-a-guide-for-international-post-users#charges) it says:
" All international courier and postal operators charge fees for their services and HMRC and Border Force does not have any authority over the level of charges they apply."
It seems unlikely that a postal operator would not want to receive remuneration for the extra work involved in handling the customs charge.
Quote from: deibid on May 19, 2016, 02:50:46 PM
Handling=keep it a day in the depot :veryangry:
Not only: the RM also has to collect the money from you and pass it on to HMRC. It's all work and they ain't going to do it for free just 'cos it's you ;)
The lesson I've learned when buying from outside the EU is either order expensive shipments, so that the handling fee is a relatively small percentage of the total, or order items that (
including P&P) fall below the limit.
Of course if you lot decide to leave the EU (as an expat I can't vote) you will have the same situation when buying within the EU (and I will have it when buying from the UK)...
Quote from: keithfre on May 19, 2016, 03:07:46 PM
Of course if you lot decide to leave the EU (as an expat I can't vote) you will have the same situation when buying within the EU (and I will have it when buying from the UK)...
Yes that same thought had occurred to me as I was starkly reminded by recent purchases. If I buy something from Germany it costs me what it says when I buy it and it gets here in a few days. If I buy something from Japan or the US it gets to the UK quickly then spends two weeks or more being held at Her Majesty's pleasure and then I pay a big fat fee (in proportion to the cost) for the Royal Mail doing something that they have to do as part of the delivery service for all non EU international parcels. And I pay VAT on the cost of the item plus the cost of the postage. At least the postage is fairly cheap on N gauge items - you should see what it is on G scale stuff.
Do keep reminding me how good I have it in Japan... The post office here, in the unusual event that customs decide I need to pay something on my VAT-less purchases from the UK after holding the parcel for 2 or 3 days, charges less than 2 quid to accept the payment in the comfort of my own doorstep. :angel: :beers:
Just three comments here-
You are lucky it came through as Royal Mail and not Parcel Force- they charged me £16 handling fee last time.
A roll of tape that I received from the US cost me £10.19 in fees and tax because the vendor included the postage price in the value on the customs slip- which meant it was added twice. No amount of persuasion will get that one back.
Les
Not abuse at all. ;)
With all respect, you took the gamble to buy something cheap outside the UK, get caught and now you have to pay tax. As per the topic how long price rises etc, a wholesaler/ genuine shop in the UK has to pay tax as well when they but abroad, that's one of the many things why they are more expensive.
Mu 2 cents, If you buy abroad and we all do it so no offence her and you are not caught, heho hoezee, we have saved a lot of money, do you get caught, ships, ships, ships. It might have been smarter to buy it in the UK.
See it as speeding, we all do it, the game is to avoid speeding tickets and every day you are not getting one you have won. Do you get one, well you have lost. This time you have lost.
Live can be so easy if you see things simple :D :D :D :D
Quote from: Maurits71 on May 19, 2016, 06:18:20 PM
See it as speeding, we all do it, the game is to avoid speeding tickets and every day you are not getting one you have won.
With respect, we don't all do it!! - the game is not to speed so we don't kill anybody. Speed limits are there for a reason!!
:veryangry:
:beers:
I fail to see what the actual complaint is. An item was imported into the country. You have to pay VAT on it. You have to pay the fee for the VAT collection. It is completely legitimate as far as I can see.
I think the gripe is that the various fees etc cost almost as much
as the model itself.
is this an abuse , no just a rip off like most things in this country. and I agree with Agrippa , if the items value was higher then its easier to swallow
I tend to agree with Scotty - if the prices for items from Japan etc had duty and VAT added before we paid, would they then look as attractive? No. If you buy something from outside the EU and do not get charged duty/VAT etc, then you have got away with it, but when looking at those prices, you should always work out what it would cost if the duty etc was added and then see if it is a bargain. The majority of stuff bought from the likes of Train Trax, (usual disclaimer :)), are not much dearer than Japanese etc imports, (with duty/VAT added), and if anything should go wrong, it is a lot easier to make a complaint. Just my twopennorth. :beers:
Quote from: Maurits71 on May 19, 2016, 06:18:20 PM
Not abuse at all. ;)
With all respect, you took the gamble to buy something cheap outside the UK, get caught and now you have to pay tax. As per the topic how long price rises etc, a wholesaler/ genuine shop in the UK has to pay tax as well when they but abroad, that's one of the many things why they are more expensive.
Mu 2 cents, If you buy abroad and we all do it so no offence her and you are not caught, heho hoezee, we have saved a lot of money, do you get caught, ships, ships, ships. It might have been smarter to buy it in the UK.
See it as speeding, we all do it, the game is to avoid speeding tickets and every day you are not getting one you have won. Do you get one, well you have lost. This time you have lost.
Live can be so easy if you see things simple :D :D :D :D
I usually only buy from abroad because what I want isn't available in the UK. Tomix chassis are sometimes available in the UK and sometimes not.
The bigger gamble with buying from outside of the U.K. is what you do if there is a problem with the item you have bought.
Unfortunately for me I buy G scale from the US. A loco starts at a very reasonable £220 which sounds great. Postage is a hefty £75 ( G scale locos are very big and rather heavy). When it gets to the UK it will cost about £60 VAT plus probably a £14 fee. Total cost about £370 which is still pretty good value. The big risk I take is that if there is a problem it ain't going back!
As already mentioned, Parcel Force's fee is twice that of RM, and if you really want to "feel the love" use UPS, who charges a variable brokerage fee based on the cost of the item.
Also, by the way, if you read the HM customs regs, you'll see that above a certain amount any duty and VAT are to be applied to both the item cost and the postage.
Finally, if you think this is a uniquely British phenomenon, it isn't. I think the US is one of the few, if not the only, country who's postal system rarely collects tax and duty, if at all.
Personally I have found it to be the luck on the day, I have had much more expensive items get through without duty that I fully expected I had to pay, but have also had items literally pence over the official limit get stopped .
It also varies from sorting office to sorting office as well, stuff in a jiffy bag seems to get through the system but once a box is involved very much pot luck.
I don't mind paying the VAT but get a nasty twinge at the socking great fee the Postal People add (last time it was £8 ish) for passing the collected tax on to HMRC.
Dave G
Absolutely. I know RM are inefficient but I find it impossible to believe that a standard, computerised customs declaration takes an hour of somebody's time (£8 fee at minimum wage = ~1h). Even with 100% overhead rate you're still paying enough to get someone's undivided attention for 30 minutes.
I would bet a substantial amount of money that it's either fully automated or takes a fraction of that time. Therefore the charges are unreasonable.
I have no problem of paying tax but I object to padding the pockets of RM's shareholders. The deal they've had from the public is already plenty generous enough in my book. :veryangry:
Funny enough that I got several parcels from Japan this year, more costly than the last one... and the first time I get charged is precisely now that .... :hmmm:... the Post Office and its financial troubles are in the news.... ::) :hmmm:
Fair enough to all of you that say "it's a gamble".... but when it smells like it smells...
I may get political here, but being Spanish this all sounds way too familiar to me!
Considering how high the fees are as a percentage of lower priced items, it is probably time that the exemption limits were raised considerably. Alternatively, that the fee was actually raised, but a lower fee was charged below a certain value, so larger value items would subsidise the handling cost of lower value ones and neither fee would be disproportionate.
Quote from: Sprintex on May 19, 2016, 02:50:00 PM
Quote from: red_death on May 19, 2016, 02:43:20 PM
£8 of the charge is Royal Mail's handling fee.
And before the OP jumps up and down at Royal Mail for that handling fee it doesn't actually go into Royal Mail's profits, it goes straight to the Government the same as the VAT charge does.
Paul
Not strictly true, the handling fee does go to Royal Mail, Items that come into the country are subject to a customs charge, this has to be manually documented by Royal Mail. At the point of collection there is due process of accounting that these packets have to go through, all this takes time and man power.
Royal Mail are actually collecting the tax on behalf of C & E.
Quote from: Oldman on May 19, 2016, 09:21:15 PM
Personally I have found it to be the luck on the day, I have had much more expensive items get through without duty that I fully expected I had to pay, but have also had items literally pence over the official limit get stopped .
It also varies from sorting office to sorting office as well, stuff in a jiffy bag seems to get through the system but once a box is involved very much pot luck.
This used to be the case, but HMRC are clamping down a lot on the smaller imports
But the simple fact of the matter is that the fee exists and you know it exists (or you should before attempting to import something) so its a bit rich to complain about it when you get caught. If you object to paying it, don't import stuff!
Its like getting a speeding ticket and then arguing that the fine/fee is over the odds. Don't break or attempt to break the law if you're unhappy about the consequences. :confused1: :confused1: :confused1:
Either that or just have the good grace to man up and pay up. ::)
Quote from: ScottyStitch on May 20, 2016, 04:31:05 PM
But the simple fact of the matter is that the fee exists and you know it exists (or you should before attempting to import something) so its a bit rich to complain about it when you get caught. If you object to paying it, don't import stuff!
Its like getting a speeding ticket and then arguing that the fine/fee is over the odds. Don't break or attempt to break the law if you're unhappy about the consequences. :confused1: :confused1: :confused1:
Either that or just have the good grace to man up and pay up. ::)
Hi
I agree.
I bought a PCB and a switch for my Picade from the USA earlier this year for around £17.35 not including postage. I ended up paying £11.47 extra comprising £3.47 VAT and £8 handling fee. I knew there was a possiblility of this happening but I took the risk as I couldn't and still can't buy one in the UK.
Cheers
Paul
It's well out there re: import costs so you weigh that up when you buy???
It's still a postcode / shipping lottery which must always be born in mind. Idon't object to costs apart from I usually get a letter stating a £1 cost of sending me a letter in the first place, then a £XX charge for dispatch in the UK -WHEN I'VE ALREADY PAID FOR DOOR TO DOOR SHIPPING.
I really admire most honestly the Japanese shipping system. It's cheap and fast, good sellers provide tracking, the package usually does 1/2 way round the world (12,000 miles?) within 24-36hrs. Then it his the UK. 500 miles takes up to 48h and it can sit in local depot for up to 72 (no ability for local pick-up). So estimates from Japan at 28 days probably aren't that far off. Just a shame 20 of them may be in the UK at extra cost!
...It's such a well published thing you take your chances and ...
Rich
Quote from: ScottyStitch on May 20, 2016, 04:31:05 PM
But the simple fact of the matter is that the fee exists and you know it exists (or you should before attempting to import something) so its a bit rich to complain about it when you get caught. If you object to paying it, don't import stuff!
Its like getting a speeding ticket and then arguing that the fine/fee is over the odds. Don't break or attempt to break the law if you're unhappy about the consequences. :confused1: :confused1: :confused1:
Either that or just have the good grace to man up and pay up. ::)
For starters.. I knew there was a possibility. But... didn´t know anything about that stupid "fee" that is most of the cost. 3 quid VAT is totally fair. the extra 8 is what I didn´t know about.
Regarding "not doing it" is precisely what I will do from now.
And please... stop that nonsense comparison with a speeding ticket. First, I did nothing wrong. Second this is a tax and a fee, not a fine. Third... buying something does not endanger anyone, only my pocket AFAIK.
Quote from: deibid on May 20, 2016, 10:15:28 PM
Quote from: ScottyStitch on May 20, 2016, 04:31:05 PM
But the simple fact of the matter is that the fee exists and you know it exists (or you should before attempting to import something) so its a bit rich to complain about it when you get caught. If you object to paying it, don't import stuff!
Its like getting a speeding ticket and then arguing that the fine/fee is over the odds. Don't break or attempt to break the law if you're unhappy about the consequences. :confused1: :confused1: :confused1:
Either that or just have the good grace to man up and pay up. ::)
For starters.. I knew there was a possibility. But... didn´t know anything about that stupid "fee" that is most of the cost. 3 quid VAT is totally fair. the extra 8 is what I didn´t know about.
Regarding "not doing it" is precisely what I will do from now.
And please... stop that nonsense comparison with a speeding ticket. First, I did nothing wrong. Second this is a tax and a fee, not a fine. Third... buying something does not endanger anyone, only my pocket AFAIK.
...Oh one more thing seeing as the speeding analogy came up again. I wish to join the comment before Re: speeding. I for one don't do it and wish no part of that generalisation thankyou very much!!!
Wow!
Quote from: ScottyStitch on May 20, 2016, 04:31:05 PM
But the simple fact of the matter is that the fee exists and you know it exists (or you should before attempting to import something) so its a bit rich to complain about it when you get caught. If you object to paying it, don't import stuff!
I don't know if you are deliberately riling people up but I think that a lot of people don't know it exists. I certainly didn't the first time I was forced to pay an outrageous 'handling fee' on a £2 item. The first time you see it is when the company (note:
NOT HMRC) send you a bill for tuppence tax and a hefty fee for themselves . It's not a case of 'complaining when you get caught'. I and, it appears, everyone else here fully expect to pay the tax when importing an item. As several people have said the complaint isn't about paying the tax. People are quite reasonably complaining about the high fees charged by the delivery company for a trivial bit of paperwork.
Quote
Its like getting a speeding ticket and then arguing that the fine/fee is over the odds. Don't break or attempt to break the law if you're unhappy about the consequences. :confused1: :confused1: :confused1:
Actually, it is nothing at all like a speeding ticket. The customer has done nothing wrong, it's not a fine and (this is the bit you seem to be missing) it's not charged by the government. It is, in effect, a ransom fee from a private company to deliver your item when you have already paid them for the delivery. Nobody is attempting to break the law by ordering something from outside the country and it's quite rude (and completely inaccurate) of you to suggest that they are.
Quote from: Rabs on May 21, 2016, 06:41:15 PM
Quote from: ScottyStitch on May 20, 2016, 04:31:05 PM
But the simple fact of the matter is that the fee exists and you know it exists (or you should before attempting to import something) so its a bit rich to complain about it when you get caught. If you object to paying it, don't import stuff!
I don't know if you are deliberately riling people up but I think that a lot of people don't know it exists. I certainly didn't the first time I was forced to pay an outrageous 'handling fee' on a £2 item. The first time you see it is when the company (note: NOT HMRC) send you a bill for tuppence tax and a hefty fee for themselves . It's not a case of 'complaining when you get caught'. I and, it appears, everyone else here fully expect to pay the tax when importing an item. As several people have said the complaint isn't about paying the tax. People are quite reasonably complaining about the high fees charged by the delivery company for a trivial bit of paperwork.
Quote
Its like getting a speeding ticket and then arguing that the fine/fee is over the odds. Don't break or attempt to break the law if you're unhappy about the consequences. :confused1: :confused1: :confused1:
Actually, it is nothing at all like a speeding ticket. The customer has done nothing wrong, it's not a fine and (this is the bit you seem to be missing) it's not charged by the government. It is, in effect, a ransom fee from a private company to deliver your item when you have already paid them for the delivery. Nobody is attempting to break the law by ordering something from outside the country and it's quite rude (and completely inaccurate) of you to suggest that they are.
If that's the case complain about the 'ransom fee' and 'outrageous handling fee' before you import an item not after, and certainly don't come on a public forum complaining after the fact. Ignorance is no excuse! I really don't care if you think that is rude or not.
https://personal.help.royalmail.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/143/~/when-you-have-a-fee-to-pay-grey-card.
This was in place before the Royal Mail was privatised.
Come on people - lets get back to model railways please....
:beers:
Why should I not complain in a public forum sir? the reason is... you don´t want to read? then DON´T.
Freedom of speech sir. I am a member of this forum, the topic is N gauge related (tomix chassis... remember) and I have all the right to complain.
Now I know how RM deals with this I won´t buy from Japan. If anyone wants to close this topic, feel free. The question I asked "is this an abuse" has been answered... it´s not, it´s what they use to do. Is just a rip off.
Quote from: deibid on May 21, 2016, 07:38:56 PM
Why should I not complain in a public forum sir? the reason is... you don´t want to read? then DON´T.
Freedom of speech sir. I am a member of this forum, the topic is N gauge related (tomix chassis... remember) and I have all the right to complain.
Now I know how RM deals with this I won´t buy from Japan. If anyone wants to close this topic, feel free.
Not a very helpful response I'm afraid. However you're right, I don't need to read this thread and, in fact I've got better things to do. Hope you feel better soon.
:beers:
Quote from: austinbob on May 21, 2016, 07:42:11 PM
Quote from: deibid on May 21, 2016, 07:38:56 PM
Why should I not complain in a public forum sir? the reason is... you don´t want to read? then DON´T.
Freedom of speech sir. I am a member of this forum, the topic is N gauge related (tomix chassis... remember) and I have all the right to complain.
Now I know how RM deals with this I won´t buy from Japan. If anyone wants to close this topic, feel free.
Not a very helpful response I'm afraid. However you're right, I don't need to read this thread and, in fact I've got better things to do. Hope you feel better soon.
:beers:
Easy mate... I was not answering your post... was the one above yours, sorry about that. You are perfectly right, back to N gauge.
Quote from: deibid on May 21, 2016, 07:45:54 PM
Quote from: austinbob on May 21, 2016, 07:42:11 PM
Quote from: deibid on May 21, 2016, 07:38:56 PM
Why should I not complain in a public forum sir? the reason is... you don´t want to read? then DON´T.
Freedom of speech sir. I am a member of this forum, the topic is N gauge related (tomix chassis... remember) and I have all the right to complain.
Now I know how RM deals with this I won´t buy from Japan. If anyone wants to close this topic, feel free.
Not a very helpful response I'm afraid. However you're right, I don't need to read this thread and, in fact I've got better things to do. Hope you feel better soon.
:beers:
Easy mate... I was not answering your post... was the one above yours, sorry about that. You are perfectly right, back to N gauge.
Apology accepted and... welcome back to N gauge.
:) :beers:
Excuse me? Your post title was a question. You were given a host of replies, some of which expressed the opinion that no it wasn't an abuse. You and others don't want to read the answers that aren't what you were looking for? Then don't post.
Is it an abuse? I'd say no, you might say yes but if you do say yes, complain about it before you import something. You didn't know about it? Then take the hit, pay up and if you want to vent, then vent but don't ask for people's opinions as you did.....SIR!
Quote from: ScottyStitch on May 21, 2016, 07:50:18 PM
Excuse me? Your post title was a question. You were given a host of replies, some of which expressed the opinion that no it wasn't an abuse. You and others don't want to read the answers that aren't what you were looking for? Then don't post.
Is it an abuse? I'd say no, you might say yes but if you do say yes, complain about it before you import something. You didn't know about it? Then take the hit, pay up and if you want to vent, then vent but don't ask for people's opinions as you did.....SIR!
Exactly what I said before. Question answered. Please, let it be. It was not me who started comparing this with criminal offence. got it?
Quote from: ScottyStitch on May 21, 2016, 07:10:19 PM
Quote from: Rabs on May 21, 2016, 06:41:15 PM
Actually, it is nothing at all like a speeding ticket. The customer has done nothing wrong, it's not a fine and (this is the bit you seem to be missing) it's not charged by the government. It is, in effect, a ransom fee from a private company to deliver your item when you have already paid them for the delivery. Nobody is attempting to break the law by ordering something from outside the country and it's quite rude (and completely inaccurate) of you to suggest that they are.
If that's the case complain about the 'ransom fee' and 'outrageous handling fee' before you import an item not after, and certainly don't come on a public forum complaining after the fact. Ignorance is no excuse! I really don't care if you think that is rude or not.
I can understand why it'd be nice to be able buy items from abroad and only pay for their cost and postage. But realistically, you can't expect to. All sorts of imports attract duties, tariffs and other costs at the border, and your high street retailer will have to pay those, whether directly or indirectly via a wholesaler. Those duties and tariffs exist for a variety of reasons, sometimes protectionism, sometimes simply to raise revenue for stuff like schools, hospitals and the armed forces, and you're entirely at liberty to vote for a party that would raise or lower them in a way you'd approve of.
Similarly you can't expect the Royal Mail to handle such charges for free. If you don't like the charge Royal Mail levies, you are entirely free to ask the vendor in Japan or wherever to select a different courier service that levies that fee at a different rate. But I doubt UPS, DHL or whoever you'd prefer would charge a substantially different rate.
Shipping items internationally is always going to be tricky because governments generally don't want us buying products outside their national borders. The more people do that, the less revenue governments make, and the less money to spend on the aforementioned schools, hospitals, armed forces and so on. So while it's wonderful that global free trade allows us to buy nice things from abroad, often saving a bit of money in doing so, there's absolutely no reason why you should assume it's going to be painless, and as ScottyStitch has said before, buyers should do thorough research beforehand so that they're aware of the hidden costs.
Cheers, NeMo
Well this has certainly escalated quickly, so as it has now descended into verbal mayhem, I shall now lock this thread to let everyone cool down a bit.
Cheers John.