Yet another Dapol loco having to go back due to faults
I am looking at about 25% having to be returned or developing faults
Latest is Class 22 from DCC Supplies with a light not working and running hot
Before this a Class 56 running very hot
I have over 100 locos
24 from Dapol
The Farish failure rate is far lower out the box and split gears an easy DIY fix if it occurs
Dapol locos are lovely to look at but can they just not sort out their reliability????
Wasting my time on dealing with returns and trips to the post office
:veryangry:
Quote from: Rabbitaway on May 06, 2016, 08:43:36 PM
Yet another Dapol loco having to go back due to faults
I am looking at about 25% having to be returned or developing faults
Latest is Class 22 from DDC Supplies with a light not working and running hot
Before this a Class 56 running very hot
I have over 100 locos
24 from Dapol
The Farish failure rate is far lower out the box and split gears an easy DIY fix if it occurs
Dapol locos are lovely to look at but can they just not sort out their reliability????
Wasting my time on dealing with returns and trips to the post office
:veryangry:
Sorry but Farish are just as bad. I've just returned a Duchess of Hamilton which ran like it had square wheels for replacement. Was part of a Cumbrian Mountain Express pack.
I've had bad locos from Dapol and Farish, and as I'VE said many times on this forum, it's not acceptable to receive a loco that doesn't work out of the box. AND I I am fed up with all the excuses for poor quality you see on this forum
:veryangry:
Bob
Thanks for reply but I disagree based on the number of locos I have as it is large sample
Reliability of Dapol is far worse than Farish
Saying this I have far more modern image than steam so for this type of loco Farish are significantly better!
Quote from: Rabbitaway on May 06, 2016, 09:02:37 PM
Bob
Thanks for reply but I disagree based on the number of locos I have as it is large sample
Reliability of Dapol is far worse than Farish
Saying this I have far more modern image than steam so for this type of loco Farish are significantly better!
i guess its just down to individual experience at the end of the day. I've had pretty much equal experience of bad locos with Dapol and Farish (I have about 40 locos in total) but I accept your experiences may be different. I also know that most of my failures, but not all, are steam locos.
What I don't like is the generally high failure rate I've experienced out of the box or after a normal running in period.
But yet many people on this forum seem to think this is sort of acceptable!!
Something which would be totally unacceptable for any other product you would normally buy.
:beers:
Apologies for all those who have heard this from me many many times before. BUT I won't give up pointing out the problems in the hope that one day the Manufacturers may take notice and sort the problems out.
Bob
Yes, we should send faulty locos back and I am now applying his rule unless a very minor issue. I do feel for our overseas modellers as this is very inconvenient
I have been guilty of fixing problems or running in for unacceptable long periods until a rough running loco is just good enough
Retailers and manufacturers exchange usually with out any issues but my frustration is wasting my time because Dapol can not get the basic QC right
Their 2 year guarantee is not worth the paper it is written on as after a year you need to pay for an unnecessary service!
Its a pretty poor show, strangely enough I only have
one Dapol loco a tiny 14xx, people always used to say it
couldnt pull your hat of but it runs perfectly, however
the failure rate mentioned is not on.
I'm doing well with Dapol locos lately- no real failures apart from self-inflicted ones.
However, I have picked up three Dapol locos quite recently that were sold as non-runners as follows.
B1 - "will not run". Turned out that the loco to tender wires had been removed and not replaced - note NOT broken. The drive shaft was also missing. A snip at £25.....
A3 - "broken bogie and will not run". Bogie securing screw was missing, as was the driveshaft. Again a cheap buy.
A3 - "wobbles and runs rough, stops dead randomly". The screw holding the plate underneath the driving wheels was present, but the plate wasn't pushed home correctly causing the brake hangers to catch in the track at random intervals. Once pushed home the loco ran perfectly.
All three now running perfectly. Very likely all the product of someone who hadn't the patience to sort a minor issue. None were Dapol NQPs, or carrying any box marking to show they had been in the past.
My latest batch of problems, however, are with Farish (tender drives yet again). BOTH my A1s have now gone off to BR Lines again- and both for the second time. One is making all the noises you associate with a split gear while the other randomly stops moving and sits there with the motor spinning and an occasional sound of things grinding- which has the hallmarks of a worm out of mesh. So, another two shows with no A1s on a BR(NE) layout. The third one away is my surviving Jubilee which has had its piston rod overtravel and leave the piston, causing quite a bit of bending, again one to be fixed by the experts. That is 30% of my Farish tender drives at BR Lines at the same time.
I spent a lot of years teaching and handling statistics. Your sample of 100 locos is still statistically within the range where you are liable to get a completely false set of readings. So is my experience with a similar sized fleet and often the opposite results. For example my fleet of (now) twelve Dapol A3s are the most consistently reliable steamers I have of any make including my Continentals. My Farish and Dapol type 2 diesels are the best diesels I have- two of each and nothing to choose between them..
Les
Quote from: austinbob on May 06, 2016, 09:17:57 PM
i guess its just down to individual experience at the end of the day.
That is the key - some modellers certainly do seem to have nothing but problems with locos from one or the other of the two main manufacturers, but others have very different experiences with few if any issues with the exact same locos.
With a statisticians head, it feels to me to be more than just bad luck and random variation. There has got to be some other factor in play leading to some modellers getting a disproportionate share of the lemons. Is it certain dealers, shipping/transit methods, something those modellers do different in handling or storage of locos (I don't know and aren't blaming any of the above...)
If only we could identify what that was we could all avoid it...
Les
As the majority of my locos are diesels or electric the comparison is better with this type of loco
I still maintain that Farish locos are significantly better out of the box
As for steam one Farish sent back and held onto a Dapol A3 that sounds like a coffee grinder!
With Dapol it is either very hot motors, noisy running or failed lights
Never had any of the above with Farish although repaired a number of split gears and as I said an easy DIY fix
The point is if you were buying lightbulbs
and suffered the same failure rate you
wouldnt buy the same brand or go
back to the same shop.
Those new fangled energy saving light bulbs are not that good either, they do not last has long as they say on the box. I must admit has far has lococ go I have only had one Dapol a 9F I bought secondhand which failed soon after I bought it. With the graham Farish Locos I have a Black five which always sheds a tyre off the drive and a new Jinty which made a hell of a noise when I put a dcc chip in it. I have a new GF 4f which is a nice model but it will not pull the skin off a rice pudding. The Jinty runs nice now after I hardwired a chip into it, at the same time voiding the warranty.
Before getting back into the hobby, all my loco were fleischmann with some going back to the early eighties when u was in primary school. All still run spot on
I've now gone British and have have a few roughies and a few DOA's. When they were 1/4 of the price of the German locos I'd cop it but the farish and dapol stuff here in oz are the same price as quality German locos
Why can't they get their act together
Bart
A very minor improvement in the quality of the electrical components would make all the difference
Looks like a failed LED on the Class 22 as the wiring and solder joints look OK
Probably a few pence on the cost of production of each loco and paid back in the reduction of rejected locos
Just to add insult to injury DCC Supplies do not take calls on a Saturday so I will have to arrange the return on Monday
Very unhelpful considering I am at work all week
I do also note that the loco was sent directly from Dapol based on the sender's label
Really not acceptable customer service
:thumbsdown:
If it's any help, I was able to make arrangements with DCC Supplies to get a Western repaired entirely by email.
I was looking to return it today before the local post office closed
Now I am going to have to use a central London post office always with long queues and lose my lunch hour
Understandably annoying.
I await the arrival of my 22 with trepidation...
I've found the opposite, out of 60 odd loco's, all diesel and electric which are split about 50/50 between Farish and Dapol.. I've had to reject 2 Farish in the shop, a 60 with badly fitted bogie and a 31 with decoration issues. I've had to repair 2 other farish, a 60 and a 47, both with split gears.
I also had to repair 2 class 08, front steps fell to bits, a Dapol 26, buffer damaged, a farish 55, cabside windows fell out and 2 class 86, both with pantograph damage and one buffer too. Being honest the 08's and 55 were down to me holding them wrongly. the 26 was caused by me dropping an 86 on it and the other 86 was me knocking the pan off.
so looking at it, my experience is that farish are worse but I know that many others have had problems with Dapol. I also think the way complaints /returns/repairs are dealt with makes a huge difference in the customers perception of the companies.
Customer service doesn't cost a lot and makes all the difference.
Cheers
Mark
Quote from: Les1952 on May 06, 2016, 10:47:15 PM
I spent a lot of years teaching and handling statistics. Your sample of 100 locos is still statistically within the range where you are liable to get a completely false set of readings.
The key flaw in all these statistics is there is not a common standard baseline. Each person will have a different perception of what's "acceptable" and what's not.
Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Dr Al on May 07, 2016, 01:47:36 PM
Quote from: Les1952 on May 06, 2016, 10:47:15 PM
I spent a lot of years teaching and handling statistics. Your sample of 100 locos is still statistically within the range where you are liable to get a completely false set of readings.
The key flaw in all these statistics is there is not a common standard baseline. Each person will have a different perception of what's "acceptable" and what's not.
Cheers,
Alan
That's true if your talking subjective problems like noise or how hot a motor gets.
It's not true if you're talking faults like not running in both directions, valve gear jamming/breaking, bits missing, bits dropping off, broken wires, pickups not working. All of the loco faults I've had are in this second category.
:beers:
Just my perspective on this, but for many years I kept well away from Dapol due to their reputation on here, and a 100% failure rate of the two cl66 that I did buy.
luckily, my required locos tend to be cl20 / cl37 / cl47 all of which have been sourced of course from Farish.
the odd problem, but nothing too serious, TOUCH WOOD :worried:
however I did bite the bullet and got some cl26s and cl27s from Dapol, and so far all four have performed flawlessly.
my latest Dapol purchases, definitely Rule 1s, were 3 cl22s, and although they have not had much in the way of use so far, all survived my running in routine with no problems.
have I just been lucky, or are Dapol slowly getting on top of their quality problems ?
just my experiences / views.
Quote from: class37025 on May 07, 2016, 03:02:06 PM
have I just been lucky, or are Dapol slowly getting on top of their quality problems ?
I must admit to not hearing many issues with the class 22 but would still not think Dapol are on top of their game or near it. I still find their locos whine more than anything else I have despite lubricating gears and worm bearings. My 2 class 26s, although good lookers, tend to 'thud' over Peco electrofrog code 55 points which, to me, suggests the back to back may be out slightly as no other locos do that :hmmm: I hardly dare run my 9Fs in case the motion locks up/falls to pieces.
Oh yes - and why does it take about 6 hours of running in before any of my Dapol purchases run remotely as I'd want/expect them to? :unimpressed:
I have the class 33, the Schools and the Bulleid Battle of Britain on order and will then decide if they have upped their game.
I'm quite sure if anyone from Dapol reads some of the threads on the forum they would think we've got it in for them but we can't all be telling porkies!
I have more locos than I dare to count, both Farish and Dapol. I've had no particular issues other than those I've brought on myself (dropped class 31 etc) other than these two issues:
A recently purchased Dapol class 56 had the directional lights stop working in one direction after 10 minutes running in. I phoned Dapol direct as I'd bought it from them at the Diesel and Electric show at Telford, and got a Freepost address. 2nd one arrived within the week and failed with exactly the same problem. Repeated the above and got an assurance that the next replacement would be tested before despatch. I then hit a four week hiatus of year end stock taking, and eventually got one that worked a month later. Lovely model, but could have done without the hassle, even though the local post-mistress is lovely and always has time for a chat!
Farish 08. I've had one lumpy runner to BR lines at least twice and I don't believe it will ever run smooth. My second purchase of one, more in hope than expectation, died within a month of buying it secondhand in a job lot. I need to screw up my courage and learn how to disect them, but I won't buy another!
Quote from: Rabbitaway on May 07, 2016, 09:35:01 AM
Just to add insult to injury DCC Supplies do not take calls on a Saturday so I will have to arrange the return on Monday
Very unhelpful considering I am at work all week
I do also note that the loco was sent directly from Dapol based on the sender's label
Really not acceptable customer service
:thumbsdown:
DCC Supplies are a very small family business that also have the right to time off. The reason they don't take calls on weekends is that some weekends they are at exhibitions like Bristol last weekend. Yes I do know them, so yes I will defend their right to a weekend off, as I assume you are having.
Unfortunately if one loco suffers from poor electronics then the chances are the whole production batch might. The boards are mass produced in their 1000 and used in multiply products until used up. Then a new batch will be made and hopefully the design changed. To expect to send one back and get a replacement with redesigned board is unrealistic, especially the way the Chinese factories seem to behave. It appears to me that the Chinese do not follow the addige that the customer is always right and no what they want or think is best.
To look just at my diesels- and NOT just at Dapol and Farish-
I will repeat that there hasn't really been much to choose between Dapol and Farish when it comes to reliability. I can depend on my four Type 2s (two Dapol 27 and two Farish 24) to run the whole weekend at a show. During that time each will clock up over a mile. ALL have now about ten shows of running with two more in the next six weeks. My locos have to earn their keep.
I did have a Dapol 26 which failed rather spectacularly at Wigan show in front of a crowd of punters. No problems getting DCC Supplies to fix it, an email got me a post-paid label. The loco was back in just over a week.
I also bought a new Farish Deltic at the GCR show- lights were fine but the motor was dead. Dealer took it back to Farish's stand with the return form and handed it to a certain Mr Hubbard in person. Said dealer was not best pleased to get the same loco back six weeks later marked "no fault found"....
One Class 37 had a solder fault on the circuit board that blew decoders, and my Class 20 had a similar fault. Both had to be sold on as "analogue only" as the fault was not a fault with the chip out. DCC Supplies will at least look at a loco that has a decoder in it, unlike Bachmann or BR Lines. All three of my Class 101/108 power cars had the glazing glued to both body and chassis, making it interesting getting the body off to chip them.
I have a Hornby Arnold V200 and a Minitrix V200 both out of service with circuit board failures, a Fleischmann diesel shunter with a loose wheel, another Fleischmann diesel that has taken up smoking despite being too young, and no fewer than four Minitrix Class 111 Bo-Bo electrics in the spares box. ALL have vastly lower mileages than my four type 2s.
We pay a good deal less for new kit than they do on the Continent. The makes are not necessarily more reliable- indeed more recently they come from the same factories at nearly twice the price.
Judging by the sales of seconds at the Dapol Open Days there is a regime of inspecting and testing, certainly in the last two years. With Farish locos arriving with the boxes surrounded in tissue paper, are they doing this as well?
Les
I recently sold a Western special edition on eBay that was then sent back to me with a melted side. Unfortunately I was down £200 because of this as the loco is very rare. I informed Dapol and as usual got an immediate helpful response from Joel. The loco was limited to 200 pieces and neither Dapol or Osbournes had a replacement. I was sent a different Western as replacement along with my loco. When my Western came back it was obvious that the components on one side had got very hot and were blackened, falling apart and had melted the body. I recently sent 2 overheating 22s back to Dapol as well which have been looked at by DCC Supplies but haven't been test run yet since coming back. I find Dapol very helpful but have had many issues with locos over the years. I have also had problems with Farish but this has been a lot more common in the last few years. I tried for ages to get a working WD from the LMR set and in the end found they needed oiling straight away unlike most Farish to get them working smoothly.
For the inexact statistical record, I have about 45 (eek) locomotives/multiple units purchased new, four of which have been total failures or otherwise unacceptable.
- Dapol Class 52, electrics went poof on the first run
- Farish Class 46, split gear after about a year
- Fleischman DR V100, motor failed after a few laps on the layout
- Kato DE10, ran but motor very growly, lights didn't work, bits fell off easily
Ironically all of the second-hand stock I've bought (excluding the ones bought as non-runners for repair) has been fine.
Quote from: Rabbitaway on May 07, 2016, 10:14:28 AM
I was looking to return it today before the local post office closed
Now I am going to have to use a central London post office always with long queues and lose my lunch hour
If it is a warranty repair contact DCC Supplies BY EMAIL. They will send you a returns label for the loco, probably on Monday when they get back from whichever show they are attending this weekend.
Take your time packing the loco up. As it is post paid you shouldn't have to queue at any of the larger post offices unless you want a proof of postage. The person they have helping out with the machines will take it as a rule. Either that or post it NEXT Saturday. In my experience DCC Supplies are a lot faster than Bachmann at getting stuff back to you despite being a much smaller organisation, and they email with progress reports.
Les
I have found that buying used Dapol locos off the bay has been better than buying new ones, maybe i have been lucky with the sellers i chose and the locos have had all the niggles sorted.
Interesting conversation with a Trader today.
He said that he can predict exactly which locos will be returned to him as non runners and it is in his opinion mainly the customer.
If he sells the same loco (it doesn't matter what loco or from which manufacturer) to two regular customers he knows Customer X will bring it back and Customer Y won't...
He gave a few examples of regular customers.
Customer A will bring everything back. usually with obvious signs of being dismantled and not reassembled correctly.
Customer B will bring back every steam loco, usually with obvious signs of poor handling mostly mangled valve gear, and in the case of Dapol Tender locos disconnected or lost drive shafts.
Customer C keeps bringing in locos bought from "a large dealer in the South West" for repair.
Customer D doesn't bring anything back but always moans about doing XYZ to his last purchase then buys another regardless!
Now, I'm not saying that all faults are entirely user inflicted, but there is one dealers opinion and he clearly feels that how the customer treats the loco is a significant factor...
Finally, in his experience which manufacturer has the biggest percentage of sales returned?
In N gauge it is Bachmann US, and over all scales, Heljan...
I've had problems with both main manufacturers, and in most cases (especially Dapol) it's down to crap circuit boards, whereby either the lights stop working in one direction, or no current gets to the motor. Sometimes you can easily see the component which has burned out.
Having lights, etc, is all very well but only if you can get them to work reliably! Sometimes simpler is better.
Quote from: davidinyork on May 08, 2016, 01:16:09 PM
Having lights, etc, is all very well but only if you can get them to work reliably! Sometimes simpler is better.
eg Union Mills locos
Over the years that I have been a member of this forum, there is one subject that regularly crops up - problems with Dapol. IMHO whether or not Farish are more reliable is irrelevant, this is about Dapol and the facts are that many of our members have bought unreliable products :(
As others have said, the products should be returned to Dapol but I wonder how many of us will try to fix the issues ourselves and so Dapol do not get an accurate picture of the number of problems? Certainly when the lighting diodes blew on my only new Dapol products (two FGW dynamic lines HSTs - that look magnificent) and I read that Dapol had issues with the diodes, I decided to fix them myself rather than go through the hassle of driving to a post office etc. Incidentally, the quality of the soldering on the boards was really poor - even worse than mine :oopssign:
Quote from: Pengi on May 08, 2016, 01:38:59 PM
Over the years that I have been a member of this forum, there is one subject that regularly crops up - problems with Dapol. IMHO whether or not Farish are more reliable is irrelevant, this is about Dapol and the facts are that many of our members have bought unreliable products :(
As others have said, the products should be returned to Dapol but I wonder how many of us will try to fix the issues ourselves and so Dapol do not get an accurate picture of the number of problems? Certainly when the lighting diodes blew on my only new Dapol products (two FGW dynamic lines HSTs - that look magnificent) and I read that Dapol had issues with the diodes, I decided to fix them myself rather than go through the hassle of driving to a post office etc. Incidentally, the quality of the soldering on the boards was really poor - even worse than mine :oopssign:
I find soldering
is the issue with Dapol, specifically dry joints, heat damage of plastic parts due to over soldering and particularly burn through of insulation leading to shorts.
In most Far East factories the soldering is done by kids ~16/17 straight out of school and with no proper, training. As someone trained to make military standard soldering joints it makes my toes curl.
Surely it would pay Dapol to test more items before sending them out to be returned and then sold off cheap. They could return all faulty ones back to china and have a good case against the factory there.
I doubt Dapol can afford to have a man permanently in China monitoring production which is what you need, even an agent is almost useless for quality issues.
The first Dapol see is cases of boxes of packed locos and they certainly wont go through every one.
This has been a problem across the assembled electronics market place for decades and the only solution I have seen is to have a quality control passport with every model.
It would be a great marketing idea if retailers have a "we test everything" policy, so the customer gets a working model every time.
You would buy from them over retailers who do not.
In engineering terms we used to call it goods in QA.
Quote from: Snowwolflair on May 08, 2016, 02:30:10 PM
It would be a great marketing idea if retailers have a "we test everything" policy, so the customer gets a working model every time.
Only if they actually did...
Quote from: potts on May 08, 2016, 02:12:28 PM
Surely it would pay Dapol to test more items before sending them out to be returned and then sold off cheap. They could return all faulty ones back to china and have a good case against the factory there.
But if there were less "returns to sell off cheap", that would upset another segment of the audience! What would the hordes of untamed bargain vultures who stampede on the Bachmann stand at the opening of Warley, Ally Pally and the like do?
Remember the complaints after one show last year when Farish gave much less space than usual to returned stock... ;)
Quote from: PLD on May 08, 2016, 02:57:27 PM
Quote from: potts on May 08, 2016, 02:12:28 PM
Surely it would pay Dapol to test more items before sending them out to be returned and then sold off cheap. They could return all faulty ones back to china and have a good case against the factory there.
But if there were less "returns to sell off cheap", that would upset another segment of the audience! What would the hordes of untamed bargain vultures who stampede on the Bachmann stand at the opening of Warley, Ally Pally and the like do?
Remember the complaints after one show last year when Farish gave much less space than usual to returned stock... ;)
Guilty, and we are also the ones who know how to fix them :D
Quote from: PLD on May 08, 2016, 02:57:27 PM
Quote from: potts on May 08, 2016, 02:12:28 PM
Surely it would pay Dapol to test more items before sending them out to be returned and then sold off cheap. They could return all faulty ones back to china and have a good case against the factory there.
But if there were less "returns to sell off cheap", that would upset another segment of the audience! What would the hordes of untamed bargain vultures who stampede on the Bachmann stand at the opening of Warley, Ally Pally and the like do?
Remember the complaints after one show last year when Farish gave much less space than usual to returned stock... ;)
From memory, there weren't any Bachmann cheap, returned items at the Alexandra Palace show. The Bachmann person I spoke to at TINGS last year said there were fewer returned items available to sell.
Quote from: Snowwolflair on May 08, 2016, 02:30:10 PM
It would be a great marketing idea if retailers have a "we test everything" policy, so the customer gets a working model every time.
You would buy from them over retailers who do not.
In engineering terms we used to call it goods in QA.
if you are undecided over what loco to buy and the guy in the shop try's several for your decision , you make up your mind , the others go back on the shelf - now these have been used ... so now they become second hand/used stock ???
Quote from: mr bachmann on May 08, 2016, 03:21:59 PM
Quote from: Snowwolflair on May 08, 2016, 02:30:10 PM
It would be a great marketing idea if retailers have a "we test everything" policy, so the customer gets a working model every time.
You would buy from them over retailers who do not.
In engineering terms we used to call it goods in QA.
if you are undecided over what loco to buy and the guy in the shop try's several for your decision , you make up your mind , the others go back on the shelf - now these have been used ... so now they become second hand/used stock ???
Shop purchases don't seem to be the problem, I don't think anyone here would buy from a shop without testing. Shop demonstrations are not "used models".
The big problem is mail order where the path is China factory to shipping container to Warehouse to shop to mail order customer. Nobody opens the box from the factory till the customer.
Quote from: Snowwolflair on May 08, 2016, 03:27:21 PM
Quote from: mr bachmann on May 08, 2016, 03:21:59 PM
Quote from: Snowwolflair on May 08, 2016, 02:30:10 PM
It would be a great marketing idea if retailers have a "we test everything" policy, so the customer gets a working model every time.
You would buy from them over retailers who do not.
In engineering terms we used to call it goods in QA.
if you are undecided over what loco to buy and the guy in the shop try's several for your decision , you make up your mind , the others go back on the shelf - now these have been used ... so now they become second hand/used stock ???
Shop purchases don't seem to be the problem, I don't think anyone here would buy from a shop without testing. Shop demonstrations are not "used models".
The big problem is mail order where the path is China factory to shipping container to Warehouse to shop to mail order customer. Nobody opens the box from the factory till the customer.
I would add to that the point that with the bad circuit boards they can run OK for a brief shop demonstration, then when you get them home and run them in they grind to a halt with a burning smell after ten minutes!
Quote from: davidinyork on May 08, 2016, 03:31:26 PM
I would add to that the point that with the bad circuit boards they can run OK for a brief shop demonstration, then when you get them home and run them in they grind to a halt with a burning smell after ten minutes!
Reading the many threads this is not the big problem. Out of box failure and longer term (+100 hours) failures seem to be the big problems. Not that ten minute failures don't happen, but personally I don't buy from any retailer not willing to run it for a while, if i'm committing to buy.
Quote from: Snowwolflair on May 08, 2016, 03:37:19 PM
Quote from: davidinyork on May 08, 2016, 03:31:26 PM
I would add to that the point that with the bad circuit boards they can run OK for a brief shop demonstration, then when you get them home and run them in they grind to a halt with a burning smell after ten minutes!
Reading the many threads this is not the big problem. Out of box failure and longer term (+100 hours) failures seem to be the big problems. Not that ten minute failures don't happen, but personally I don't buy from any retailer not willing to run it for a while, if i'm committing to buy.
The local model shop nearest me only has a short straight test track, so that isn't really practical.
I've had several which have developed faults after a short amount of running-in.
I find this thread quite scary and, if I was about to start in n gauge I probably wouldn't having read this.
I have circa 25 locos and the only problem I have so far is keeping the pick ups clean so they run well at low speeds. I have a Western with issues relating to power pick up but I think this is now ok and have had to re-solder the loco to tender wires on pretty much every dapol steamer. Apart from that I am happy so far. Have I just been lucky?
Oh and a farish GWR railcar bought off eBay was ropey and then became a non runner.
It's an interesting issue testing locos in shops before buying them, recently I've been in Spain and visited a very good model shop in Madrid, and brought some fleischmann n gauge locos, they tested them in the shop with out me asking and although I couldn't see a fault with the first one ey swapped it as they were not happy with how it ran. Best of all they spoke perfect English and were very helpful. I guess it all comes down to how much a shop knows its products and how worried they are about customer service. As for a shop a few sets of rolling roads wouldn't be a bad investment as allows for longer testing period without taking up extra space in the shop.
Quote from: davidinyork on May 08, 2016, 03:44:39 PM
Quote from: Snowwolflair on May 08, 2016, 03:37:19 PM
Quote from: davidinyork on May 08, 2016, 03:31:26 PM
I would add to that the point that with the bad circuit boards they can run OK for a brief shop demonstration, then when you get them home and run them in they grind to a halt with a burning smell after ten minutes!
Reading the many threads this is not the big problem. Out of box failure and longer term (+100 hours) failures seem to be the big problems. Not that ten minute failures don't happen, but personally I don't buy from any retailer not willing to run it for a while, if i'm committing to buy.
The local model shop nearest me only has a short straight test track, so that isn't really practical.
I've had several which have developed faults after a short amount of running-in.
My local model railway shop only has a short, straight test track... but I have to say if it runs straight away out of the box, backwards and forwards a couple of times, then its probably good to go.
Most of my failures are at first attempt to run the loco.
:beers:
These type of threads have prevented me from buying Dapol locos so far (though the paint jobs on the diesels I like usually look awful anyway). Their rolling stock seems good, weirdly though I find it never stays coupled so I have no Dapol wagons either now.
...It keeps coming up and over and over again but I fear nobody from Dapol (or Farish) has any presence here. Need to write to the magazines or post-up on RMWEB which I presume is where the two big manufacturers monitor.
Quote from: RST on May 08, 2016, 08:34:03 PM
These type of threads have prevented me from buying Dapol locos so far (though the paint jobs on the diesels I like usually look awful anyway). Their rolling stock seems good, weirdly though I find it never stays coupled so I have no Dapol wagons either now.
...It keeps coming up and over and over again but I fear nobody from Dapol (or Farish) has any presence here. Need to write to the magazines or post-up on RMWEB which I presume is where the two big manufacturers monitor.
I'm happy with my dapol products. Everyone I have bought is currently in full working order. I have not had cause to return one (yet).
As for monitoring, Bachmann monitor forums but they don't get involved in postings. That would almost certainly lead to all sorts of problems and angry postings. Dapol will get reports back from forums even if they don't monitor them.
QuoteMost of my failures are at first attempt to run the loco.
Two of many possibilities, you have a poltergeist or SWIMBO is sabotaging them, they can be one and the same in some houses? :D :-X
QuoteAs for monitoring, Bachmann monitor forums but they don't get involved in postings. That would almost certainly lead to all sorts of problems and angry postings. Dapol will get reports back from forums even if they don't monitor them.
...I don't believe in that approach. I'm really not sure everyone's gripes on here get noticed. But if you want to go with the guy in the mag the other month with a full 1 page article, compare it to a brand new washing machine -all flashing lights, whistles and bells. When yours brakes down, think yourself lucky it was just a Friday afternoon machine. In fact its too cheap and we should have paid more for the privilege in the first place
Quote from: Snowwolflair on May 08, 2016, 09:49:32 PM
QuoteMost of my failures are at first attempt to run the loco.
Two of many possibilities, you have a poltergeist or SWIMBO is sabotaging them, they can be one and the same in some houses? :D :-X
If that were proven I would be happier. Unfortunately I'm sure it's down to poor quality.
:beers:
Quote from: Snowwolflair on May 08, 2016, 09:49:32 PM
QuoteMost of my failures are at first attempt to run the loco.
Two of many possibilities, you have a poltergeist or SWIMBO is sabotaging them, they can be one and the same in some houses? :D :-X
If that were proven I would be happier. Unfortunately I'm sure it's down to poor quality.
:beers:
Quote from: Snowwolflair on May 08, 2016, 09:49:32 PM
QuoteMost of my failures are at first attempt to run the loco.
Two of many possibilities, you have a poltergeist or SWIMBO is sabotaging them, they can be one and the same in some houses? :D :-X
If that were proven I would be happier. Unfortunately I'm sure it's down to poor quality.
:beers:
three repeats, definitely a poltergeist!
I have listed most of the problems I have had with locos of all makes.
To put these in perspective I have a large fleet of DCC-fitted locos, mostly steam, the overwhelming majority of which run reliably for whole weekends at a time at exhibitions. These include Dapol, Farish and Union Mills with a couple of Poole chassis also chipped and still running. Half a dozen problem children is still only 5% of the total.
I also have a smaller fleet (about 30) of analogue locos, again with the majority running without any issues- these include both Dapol and Farish plus a single unchipped Union Mills.
The third fleet is the Continental fleet- which for size of fleet (under 20) have been LESS reliable than the UK outline, with total motor failures, melted traction tyres, dropped valve gear, and as much locking up as the worst of Farish. A mechanical or electrical failure rate approaching 50%.
I previously modelled US outline. You mention Dapol's overheated circuit boards. I've written off Atlas (Kato-made) and Intermountain diesels with melted bodies in the past, and again there are lemons to be had out there.
In N we have not had the total product recalls that have happened in OO. We have also avoided the crumbling chassis blocks inflicting at least two OO makes, and nobody has yet pulled their entire remaining stocks of an expensive limited edition model to provide spare parts for the flood of returns they have had...
Les
Edit- NONE of the problems listed in OO have affected Dapol. However they do cover THREE other makes. I believe Dapol DID offer to change the DCC interface boards on one model when it was found the Chinese factory had supplied the wrong board.
Quote from: Snowwolflair on May 08, 2016, 10:11:30 PM
three repeats, definitely a poltergeist!
Yeh that is a bit weird..
Don't know how that happened. Creepy!!!
:hmmm:
Thinking about product recalls- there WAS one in N.
Ixion recalled and replaced their original Manor with one made to the correct scale.
This was despite a good number of punters handling the EPs at shows and going off muttering "its too b.... big" or words to that effect. Did any of these guys actually then talk to Ixion?
Les
Having made three attempts at getting into British N gauge since 1995 I gave up, instead choosing Japanese and American N gauge.
Please dont think I am stirring the pot but I got sick to death of new locos wadling around the track, split gears and locos that lasted no time at all, I really like the look of British N gauge and hope the quality has improved since my last attempt, have to say though the British diesels were well and truly as good as US stuff, but my first choice is steam so I felt let down.
I got so unhappy with British N that it drove me to OO gauge, over the past couple of years I built a nice OO layout.
I still consider N gauge as my favourite gauge and have started a new British N layout,this time I will be going freelace/fictitious style, I will be running British rolling stock but my locos will be diesel shunters of my own design built over Kato and Modemo mechanisms, I have two reasons for doing this, first is the cost of new locos, I dont mind paying top money for products so long as the work straight out of the box, second, I like the idea of having something I designed and built myself, as you already know there are loads of different looking small diesels that have worked on private and industrial railways so just about anything is acceptable.
Looks like I have started a tread with everybody's else's frustration on N gauge quality
Anyway I will phone DCC Supplies tomorrow (or is it today!) and ask for a free post return label
Maybe this is why DCC Supplies charge such a high P&P to pay for all the returns!
Unlikely that they will test the replacement as the loco was sent direct from Dapol
???