As you are the most helpful lot I know, I thought I would fire this question at you.
Do you pre-order engines/rolling stock from the box shifters?
The reason I as this because I have had an availability list come from the Dark Side manufacturer, there is little or nothing available immediately, the nearest are marked May & June 16.
What I'm asking is; is it worth me ordering in say 5 Santa Specials for delivery in September, or would it be better to ask for Pre-orders. The same goes for a lot of other stock, with minimum orders of 2 or even 4 should I go down the pre-order market like the Liverpool and Sheffield stores, or should I risk capital in ordering them in anyway?
Difficult question
I often pre-order stuff and then cancel the order months (sometimes a year or two later) cos the items are NEVER available at the first promised date ( and often not available on the 2nd or 3rd promised date) so to my mind preorders are pretty much a waste of time unless you are absolutely desperate to make sure you get one.
I wouldn't risk the capital in ordering items in advance from your suppliers if you have to pay up front. I would imagine its just as likely that the delivery promises to you are as wrong as those of us pre-ordering from the box shifters.
I'm not sure what I said helps you much. Promised delivery dates from the likes of Farish and particularly Dapol are pretty much a lottery.
:beers:
Quote from: austinbob on May 02, 2016, 06:19:40 PM
Difficult question
I often pre-order stuff and then cancel the order months (sometimes a year or two later) cos the items are NEVER available at the first promised date ( and often not available on the 2nd or 3rd promised date) so to my mind preorders are pretty much a waste of time unless you are absolutely desperate to make sure you get one.
I wouldn't risk the capital in ordering items in advance from your suppliers if you have to pay up front. I would imagine its just as likely that the delivery promises to you are as wrong as those of us pre-ordering from the box shifters.
I'm not sure what I said helps you much. Promised delivery dates from the likes of Farish and particularly Dapol are pretty much a lottery.
:beers:
Traders normally have the benefit of not actually paying them until they are ready for delivery, the problem is that lookig down the list there are quite few promised for this year that have already been cancelled or delayed until 2017, which as you state must be a PIA for customers.
Pre-ordering has the advantage of making sure you get the item you want (whenever it eventually turns up). Most box shifters also send an email once payment is due which means you don't have to keep and eye on adverts etc to see when items actually become available.
My local model shop is actually pretty good and I have taken to getting my "must-haves" from him. His prices are pretty close to the box shifters once you take postage into account. I tend to save the box shifters for sales when there are bigger discounts available. My Rule 1 purchases. ;)
I used to preorder from Liverpool because [a] you had a guaranteed price, and if you needed several of an item, you stood a better chance of getting them.
now that the price guarantee has disappeared, I'm not sure that there is any real advantage in preordering, other than the hope that you'll get the items if they sell well.
I very rarely preorder anything, unless I expect it to sell out fast. Dapol FGW TGS was the last thing. I now have two, as I preordered them from two places! :doh:
To ensure I get those 'must have' items I tend to keep an eye on this forum for when things are due/when delayed to and try to get a pre order in, say, 9-10 months before delivery is expected in the hope that (a) the price will be the same as when ordered and (b) my pre order will ensure I get one rather than take pot luck afterwards.
My preferred supplier mails me if the price has increased and gives me the option of agreeing to the increase or cancelling the order.
At one stage I had over £1200 worth of pre orders but recent price increases and pathetic delivery promises led to me slashing that by over 50%.
Dapol tend to take a full page ad in the NGS Journal advising what is due for arrival and when and it's always good for a laugh/hissy fit.
I think I've got around 4 or 5 items on preorder and its like shifting sands waiting for them to actually turn up. So This thread has convinced me I'm wasting my time and I will close all my preorders and like NewportNobby will keep an eye on this forum for news of release.
:beers:
Whenever I hear something about new items I put a post under the relevant Review thread and, if one hasn't been started, I start one on the basis that, on arrival with those who've purchased said item, they can put their review into the thread.
I think it could benefit many of us if we all did this as a matter of course.
I used to pre order but don't bother now.
I simply wait for a post on here (or an announcement in one of the magazines).
I can see the advantages of pre-order for the retailer, but as there have been no new releases for early diesel/blue period West country releases I have not really used the facility but if something I really fancied was announced I would probably pre-order. If a Desert sand Western was announced I would pre order one this time as I missed Osbournes limited edition.
Quote from: newportnobby on May 02, 2016, 09:02:04 PM
Whenever I hear something about new items I put a post under the relevant Review thread and, if one hasn't been started, I start one on the basis that, on arrival with those who've purchased said item, they can put their review into the thread.
I think it could benefit many of us if we all did this as a matter of course.
Good idea. I quite often post about new releases I've heard from Hattons, Rails etc
Oh, and I am so fed up with rubbish promises on pre orders that I've just cancelled them all.
:beers:
Quote from: austinbob on May 02, 2016, 09:07:47 PM
Quote from: newportnobby on May 02, 2016, 09:02:04 PM
Whenever I hear something about new items I put a post under the relevant Review thread and, if one hasn't been started, I start one on the basis that, on arrival with those who've purchased said item, they can put their review into the thread.
I think it could benefit many of us if we all did this as a matter of course.
Good idea. I quite often post about new releases I've heard from Hattons, Rails etc
Oh, and I am so fed up with rubbish promises on pre orders that I've just cancelled them all.
:beers:
If you have Farish stuff in mind, Bob, checking the 'recent Arrivals' section of their website also shows what is due in the next 60 days so I assume they know it's on/going onto a boat.............
http://www.bachmann.co.uk/new_arrivals.php?prod_selected=1 (http://www.bachmann.co.uk/new_arrivals.php?prod_selected=1)
I have a few items on pre order, however these are all 2+ years old. I've not bothered pre ordering anything since but that is more down to the offerings that have been presented, i.e. nothing that I want.
Quote from: Ditape on May 02, 2016, 09:04:31 PM
I can see the advantages of pre-order for the retailer, but as there have been no new releases for early diesel/blue period West country releases I have not really used the facility but if something I really fancied was announced I would probably pre-order. If a Desert sand Western was announced I would pre order one this time as I missed Osbournes limited edition.
Our problem lies mainly with a Dark Scale supplier whos name begins with the letter after G. Basically harldy anything that has a motor in it is available now, to me th eony way it seems to get sales for this copany is to pre-order the items in question, therein lies the problem, if the item is popular, it may be sold out in no time, but because items get delayed and even cancelled customers get a bit miffed when they don't turn up when expected.
Pre orders would give us an idea on the popularity of a particular model, and allow us to judge sales better
Hi,
If I'm wanting to buy anything that is a future release then it gets pre-ordered. With the limited runs that manufacturers do these days, you can't guarantee that you will be able to get a hold of the model otherwise.
Cheers, Mark.
Quote from: Vonzack on May 03, 2016, 03:43:30 PM
Hi,
If I'm wanting to buy anything that is a future release then it gets pre-ordered. With the limited runs that manufacturers do these days, you can't guarantee that you will be able to get a hold of the model otherwise.
Cheers, Mark.
Hi
Trouble is that doesn't always guarantee you'll actually get the model on release. Twice now I have lost my preordered model because of issues with my credit card neither of which was my fault. I contacted the shop within 10 minutes of receiving their email to be told that it was now sold out.
Cheers
Paul
Yeah, I've had problems too with pre-orders, I will tend to place orders when items are announced, so there may be several items on the order and they may be released at different times. I nearly got caught out with the Dapol TGSs as somehow my order had been set to be fulfilled when everything was in stock and there's now way that would have happened. Luckily I rang up to see where my order was and managed to get it sorted. I did have to buy the Blue Grey TGS from another supplier though, otherwise I would have missed that one.
It pays to stay up to date with what's being delivered and check that your order is going to be fulfilled.
Hi Graham, if you are ordering from Hornby then you have to place an order to have a better chance of actually receiving the items. If a particular item becomes popular then you take your chances of getting it from them. Same goes for Bachmann they too can sell out very quickly.
Have you considered ordering from A B Gee who sell in singles?
Quote from: Widnes Model Centre on May 03, 2016, 05:48:53 PM
Have you considered ordering from A B Gee who sell in singles?
You still have the same availability problems unfortunately. These days there is no guarantee of getting all or, unless you are a big player, most of your order for some items.
Personally I don't take pre-orders.
I don't want to disappoint customers if the item doesn't turn up when it is supposed to - or even at all.
I don't want to be left with a model that I have had delivered but the customer no longer wants.
I certainly don't want to tell customers that I've had to put the price up again on the model that they have been waiting for for a couple of years.
Quote from: Ian Morton on May 03, 2016, 09:43:58 PM
Quote from: Widnes Model Centre on May 03, 2016, 05:48:53 PM
Have you considered ordering from A B Gee who sell in singles?
You still have the same availability problems unfortunately. These days there is no guarantee of getting all or, unless you are a big player, most of your order for some items.
Personally I don't take pre-orders.
I don't want to disappoint customers if the item doesn't turn up when it is supposed to - or even at all.
I don't want to be left with a model that I have had delivered but the customer no longer wants.
I certainly don't want to tell customers that I've had to put the price up again on the model that they have been waiting for for a couple of years.
Hi Ian, you have put in all the points I considered inserting in my post but left for the OP to decide. I agree with you on every one.
Hornby Exeter springs to mind on the first point.
Customers who order and then change their mind can be very costly. Why is it always the loco's that you would never order for the shop?
We do pre-orders but with the caveat that we cannot guarantee any price until published by the manufacturers. We always advise customers that any prices they may see on other sites are at best guesses. We have certainly had this problem with the new Limited Edition Pullman which we stated would be a LOT more than the price guide on larger sites. The customer went along with our advice and was therefore happy when it came at at lot higher price than the "guesses". He has started to pay it off in installments.
Quote from: Widnes Model Centre on May 03, 2016, 05:48:53 PM
Hi Graham, if you are ordering from Hornby then you have to place an order to have a better chance of actually receiving the items. If a particular item becomes popular then you take your chances of getting it from them. Same goes for Bachmann they too can sell out very quickly.
Have you considered ordering from A B Gee who sell in singles?
I applied for an account with ABG once before but never got a reply.
Now I have a physical shop and not just an internet presence it may be worth contacting them again.
I'm wary of Pre-Orders becuse a little voice in my mind says that Hornby are more likley to let down the little guy than the big box shifters, but looking at their latest availability list it would seem that you have to have crystal ball and get ahead of the game anyway
Hi Graham,
Hornby would never put the big boys first :laugh3:
There is a debate going on at the moment on RM Web as to whether it is Hornby selling off stock or Hattons, R of S and Kernow clearing their shelves and price matching sale items. Also put into the pot was the fact it could be AB Gee selling off their stock.
The sale items were never offered to other Retailers. They were sold by Hornby to those three retailers. I know because I asked the question of Hornby and that is what I was told. I am not a member on RM Web so cannot add this to the debate. I am still waiting for a written explanation as I suspect are others.
I had to look at your website to see Test Valley. I couldnt find out where you are located. I then saw a scrolling picture with your shop opening on Saturday and it was in PE11. Had to google PE11 to discover where you are. Can I suggest that of all the info on your home page you need your location and contact details. Good luck with your new shop. Better get some early nights in :sleep:
Quote from: Widnes Model Centre on May 03, 2016, 11:00:10 PM
Hi Graham,
Hornby would never put the big boys first :laugh3:
There is a debate going on at the moment on RM Web as to whether it is Hornby selling off stock or Hattons, R of S and Kernow clearing their shelves and price matching sale items. Also put into the pot was the fact it could be AB Gee selling off their stock.
The sale items were never offered to other Retailers. They were sold by Hornby to those three retailers. I know because I asked the question of Hornby and that is what I was told. I am not a member on RM Web so cannot add this to the debate. I am still waiting for a written explanation as I suspect are others.
I had to look at your website to see Test Valley. I couldnt find out where you are located. I then saw a scrolling picture with your shop opening on Saturday and it was in PE11. Had to google PE11 to discover where you are. Can I suggest that of all the info on your home page you need your location and contact details. Good luck with your new shop. Better get some early nights in :sleep:
Now added to the footer so it appears on every page
PE11? SP11 surely...? ???
Hi
I have never per-ordered anything --- even a new car. Certainly won't ever for a model railway item as I have always thought the Farish and Dapol promised lists were just dreams. Now I do admit that some promises eventually come true and I have missed the odd popular item but not because I did not pre-order but because I did not order quick enough when they were in stock.
I have registered an interest on some items and been e mailed with expected delivery dates (not often achieved) and in stock info from a well known retailer that offers this service.
The pr-order lists on web sites do let you know what might turn up eventually and of course they do provoke those dreams. Ah!! ..... That Dapol West Country Pacific ........ Now that's a 4 years+ dream and the promise was it would be only one!!
Cheers
Mac :beers:
I've pre-ordered in the past as various new locos I've wanted (Dapol Pannier) have been likely to sell out before I can get one. However the time between announcements of new locos and their actual delivery has got so long now, I've been put off doing it. The manufactures seem to be using it more as a kickstarter type scheme to see if there's enough demand before actually committing designers to a project and if they're not honouring pre-order prices there's nothing in it for the customer other than a surprise credit card bill in 2-3 years time.
Quote from: njee20 on May 04, 2016, 05:31:01 PM
PE11? SP11 surely...? ???
I did notice the typo :bounce:
Quote from: Graham Walters on May 04, 2016, 06:00:57 PM
Quote from: njee20 on May 04, 2016, 05:31:01 PM
PE11? SP11 surely...? ???
I did notice the typo :bounce:
I didn't :PE isn't that Peterborough? Easy mistake as when I lived in Grately there were no Post Codes. We used to get mail addressed to to The House with the gravel drive, opposite the Plough pub, Grately, Nr Andover. Hants. Even just my name and Grately.The postie found us.
Quote from: Widnes Model Centre on May 04, 2016, 06:16:19 PM
Quote from: Graham Walters on May 04, 2016, 06:00:57 PM
Quote from: njee20 on May 04, 2016, 05:31:01 PM
PE11? SP11 surely...? ???
I did notice the typo :bounce:
I didn't :PE isn't that Peterborough? Easy mistake as when I lived in Grately there were no Post Codes. We used to get mail addressed to to The House with the gravel drive, opposite the Plough pub, Grately, Nr Andover. Hants. Even just my name and Grately.The postie found us.
Sounds like Gerald to a T, he's been doing the Grately round since Adam was a boy
Adding to what may well be a closed debate;
I have 4 pre-orders for locos with the oldest being just over 2 years (the Farish Castle). In hope that I still have the wit to run a railway should it ever arrive, I shall leave it on order! Several other mature orders have been ditched though.
Despite my living in hope bit, I do have a concern that a long awaited loco arrives to then prove itself a poor runner and it has to go back with no point in getting a replacement as 'they're all like that' as one major repairer advised me a few weeks back.
Should I be a retailer, it would be the 'too late' problem where you could be stuck with stock that nobody wants other than at an ever higher discount than before.
Best wishes with the shop. It will be interesting to learn what you decide to do, Graham.
Dave G
As another retailer, my main issue is indeed the delays, customers quite rightly want a rough estimate at best and half the time all i can say is "how long is a piece of string" as i simply dont know. Hornby at the moment are awful, some of the range is shown as June 2016 even though it came out in january and others are shown as February havent arrived yet. Farish arent much better as the FGW 150s arent now due till at least September although 150247 is due in August but given these are relieveries on exsisiting models they really should have been out sooner!
By far the biggest issue is Hornby this week as ive seen some large retailers are discounting some Hornby items, nothing unusual in that, my problem is some of the items have only been out 4 weeks! Needless to say people who pre ordered those items who paid the higher price are annoyed that items are being discounted so quickly, its even worse for me as ive now got stock which is being sold at less than it cost me! What do i do now? Well i either leave them sat on the shelf and hope i sell them or i lose money? Not very appealing either way.
Richard
Let's face it, they sure as hell don't listen to the end users so let's hope they do listen to the retailers (although I think I know the answer to that one, too) ::)