I have often seen references to a number of wagons or carriages being referred to as a 'rake'. I have just had a quick search on t'internet and can only find references to the garden implement or things like raking a comb through hair - so, why is it called a 'rake'. :confused1:. (Or is it so obvious, I am missing it ???).
I've never really used "rake" specifically for train formations. To me it's meant (possibly wrongly!) some similar items organised together in a line, like for me I might say "a rake of 4 pressure dials". Just checked Dictionary.com says "to gather or collect abundantly" followed by "in" some form of following description?
I never really thought about it before and I may be wrong, good question :confused1:
I wonder if it's one of those questions...
(http://img10.deviantart.net/0b3b/i/2013/096/4/7/four_candles_fork_handles_minimal__posteritty_by_posteritty-d60n0jn.jpg)
All I can think of is that a garden rake has a row of teeth/prongs?
so a row of carriages becomes a rake of them ?
tenuous ?
Good question though !!
I asked this a while back and I think they' re just called a rake.
This from the Oxford Dictionary (the usual arbiter in such matters)
'Pronunciation: /reɪk/; noun; British: A number of railway carriages or wagons coupled together:
'we have converted one locomotive and a rake of coaches to air braking'
Origin
Early 20th century (originally Scots and northern English): from Old Norse rák 'stripe, streak', from an alteration of rek- 'to drive'. The word was in earlier use in the senses 'path, groove' and 'vein of ore''.
FWIW, I would question the 'Early 20th century' pronouncement as the term was used on at least one New Zealand gold-mining tramway before the end of the 19th Century, indicating that the word had a 'railway' use before the date noted in the 'Oxford.
Hope that this helps...
Many thanks for the replies - Komata seems to have sorted that one out :beers:
Must admit I thought the railway use of the word was out there already on dictionary so I never listed it. I thught the use of the word "rake" more intersting.
Also sung about by Sandy Denny from Fairport Convention "I fear you are some rake" where rake means a male of dubious morals.
Now how would you know about that then 8)
So what's the collective noun for several locomotives ?
BobB, that depends on whether they are diesel or steam, and which group of aficionados you belong to! :)
Quote from: BobB on March 26, 2016, 06:28:24 AM
So what's the collective noun for several locomotives ?
If they're DCC sound fitted diesels on an MPD layout, is an "annoying whistle"... :P
Quote from: BobB on March 26, 2016, 06:28:24 AM
So what's the collective noun for several locomotives ?
A stud?
Rake is the collective noun for clouds. Just thought I should add that for etymological completeness!
I think the use of 'rake' of rolling stock and 'stud' of locomotives is accepted use in the correct context when talking about them in the sense we do.
But I think the use of 'staith(e)' is mis-used these days, especially by modellers; the word derives from Old English and is defined as 'a wharf; a structure for shipping coal; an embankment'. Therefore, it should only refer in railway terms to the vast structures in places such as Blythe, where an inclined pier was built on the quayside to enable trains of loaded coal to be emptied by gravity into colliers for onward transport by sea.
What should we use for the coal structures in older goods yard to receive coal? I'm not sure; 'coal drop' should really refer to again, especially in the North, where wagons were unloaded into pits under the rails by gravity from hoppers. Perhaps they should be coal pens, or better, bunkers, for the coal merchants of times past?
Pedantically
Martyn
The Regency period was notorious for its rakes ( and other garden implements)
Nick R ( at Pepys exhibition in Greenwich )
And Hogarth's paintings and engravings "A Rake's Progress" in the 1730s
One would hope that as our rakes progress they dont fall into decline and dissolution as did Tom Rakewell.
It may have animal ancestry, as 'rake' is used as a collective noun for mules. Mules carried goods, so the leap from a 'rake of mules' to a 'rake of wagons' seems logical, and then from there to coaches.
A Rake is a collective units of pints...
From 1-6 Pints in the pub is a "Few"
From 7-12 Pints is a "Rake"
More than 12 Pints is a "Feed"
Well it is around here anyway...
For my Dad (Dublin born and bred) the limit of decency was 8 pints.
If you had "one over the eighth" you were "sozzled".
Yours (hic),
Joe Cassidy
Quote from: Greybeema on March 26, 2016, 08:12:20 PM
From 1-6 Pints in the pub is a "Few" TIPSY
From 7-12 Pints is a "Rake" DRUNK
More than 12 Pints is a "Feed" HOSPITALISED
Quote from: Greybeema on March 26, 2016, 08:12:20 PM
A Rake is a collective units of pints...
From 1-6 Pints in the pub is a "Few"
From 7-12 Pints is a "Rake"
More than 12 Pints is a "Feed"
Well it is around here anyway...
Forgot to mention - the whiskey chasers do not get included in the count...
Quote from: joe cassidy on March 26, 2016, 08:33:17 PM
For my Dad (Dublin born and bred) the limit of decency was 8 pints.
If you had "one over the eighth" you were "sozzled".
Yours (hic),
Joe Cassidy
Never been to Dublin, but thats my commonly accepted level of "having too many" too :)
I don't know the origin of the term Rake...or rather I think I do now ;) but often when referring to "Engine and stock" trains it would be referred to as
Load 8, or however many coaches were involved....That may be a WR thing though.......
To get back on track (Ned Seegoon comes to mind :))
Re: Bob B's question 'So what's the collective noun for several locomotives'?
Observation indicates that there seem to be two answers for this:
(1) 'Stud':A small group (more than one but less than 5, although the latter number seems to be arbitrary) is evidently called a ''stud' (as in a collection of male breeding animals; usually horses) although curiously, the use of that word seems to be (have been?) largely American-specific, and appropriated with great enthusiasm by US HO modellers during the 1950's. The use of the word in a model railway context does however seem to have died-out over time. However, although rarely used in the Twenty first Century it is not totally extinct, and has at times been noted in various US-sourced model railway magazines. The origins of the word in a railway setting are uncertain, but seem to have been associated with the early days of railway construction in Britain. It evidently crossed the North Atlantic.
(2) 'Fleet': This seems to be the more usual term for a group of locomotives, although as with 'Stud' the word again it appears to be 'number-dependent', and relates to two or more units. However, the term is apparently very flexible and railway modelers have been known to have a 'fleet' of a single locomotive. This is however a linguistic aberration and may be model railway specific in its usage....
Hoping that this helps. It's an interesting question.
Not heard the word "stud" over here (only been here 36 years). The common term for multiple items coupled together is "consist". See here:
http://www.railway-technical.com/us-uk.shtml (http://www.railway-technical.com/us-uk.shtml)
Doesn't answer to why "rake" is used though.
The vagaries of the English language. What have I started :confused2: :)
In the NE of Scotland, where I was brung up, my grandparents generation used the word 'rake' to mean a plurality. "How many were there Gran?" - "A great rake o' them min, a great big rake!" Anyone else would have said, "a large number."
It's all in the fun of the English language and the varied uses in different countries. "Rake" is very British as a railway term for a train, as is "diagram" whereas "consist" is predominantly American. Likewise where locos are concerned "stud" tends to be more North American and may actually refer to a large collection of locos. Fleet is more generic but of course is not railway-specific.
Omar / anaes20.
So, let me get this straight. A rake is a diagram, is a consist, is a stud, is a fleet, is a load 8, Got it now. :thumbsup: I have engines pulling wagons and/or coaches. :P
Quote from: dannyboy on March 31, 2016, 09:34:09 PM
So, let me get this straight. A rake is a diagram, is a consist, is a stud, is a fleet, is a load 8, Got it now. :thumbsup: I have engines pulling wagons and/or coaches. :P
Alas no, the terms "fleet" and "stud" are not used in the same context as the other terms. They refer to a collection of locos rather than a complete train.
Omar / anaes20.
Quote from: anaes20 on March 31, 2016, 09:39:06 PM
Quote from: dannyboy on March 31, 2016, 09:34:09 PM
So, let me get this straight. A rake is a diagram, is a consist, is a stud, is a fleet, is a load 8, Got it now. :thumbsup: I have engines pulling wagons and/or coaches. :P
Alas no, the terms "fleet" and "stud" are not used in the same context as the other terms. They refer to a collection of locos rather than a complete train.
Omar / anaes20.
Oh give over - wish I'd never asked now! I'll stick with an engine and wagons. :)