Hello,
I know the old Lima stuff is often slated. Inspired to have another go at a weedkiller train I got hold of 3-off "donor" coaches from Ebay for equal or less than the cost of a single new GF coach -I couldn't have bought 2 older GF coaches for the price of 3 Lima ones. "Worth a punt" I thought.
...I was expecting them to be out of scale, really rough mouldings and you know what I lined them up to a MK 2 coach I have and ..........they're not that bad really. Aside from the really thick window moulding depth I thought they would be much worse. I'm debating whether to re-spray them now but I think I still will. They won't mix with anything GF coach-wise but as a donor base I'm pleasantly surprised how passable these ones are. They're no worse than earlier GF printed side 2n'd hand coaches I've had so far.
I've held-off buying Lima coaches at 2n't hand stalls at exhibitions because they've been wanting silly prices for them, but now I've had a couple on my own track I think they might be worth exploring. Not at exhibition prices!! But cheap enough on EBay for re-sprays!
Am I crazy thinking they've potential. I don't have scale track plans, my ballasting is dodgy so as long as I don't mix them with the ultra-fine new stuff they look quite passable at normal distances in my eye :worried:
Rich
Quote from: RST on March 18, 2016, 08:07:36 PM
Am I crazy thinking they've potential. I don't have scale track plans, my ballasting is dodgy so as long as I don't mix them with the ultra-fine new stuff they look quite passable at normal distances in my eye :worried:
Well, I think you've nailed it there.
By modern standards the Lima Mk1s aren't especially good coaches. To my eye the biggest problems are that they seem to ride a bit high above the bogies, and the windows are rather deeply recessed.
On the other hand, some of the Lima stuff has a lot of character, and the Mk1 coaches certainly capture the look and feel of the originals. I've always felt the Lima 86 captured the character of the original loco rather well, and one of those hauling a train of the Lima Mk1s would certainly be a fun addition to an otherwise serious layout.
Cheers, NeMo
My layout is for fun. I have some Lima coaches. The paint scheme is not good but a respray would soon change that. Agreed mix them with more modern coaches there is no comparison but there are many things that can be done to improve them. And yes bargains can be found.
I first saw them "in the flesh" proper at the Falkirk show. Thought there were a few deals for £15 or so a coach, then picked them up, paint shipped, scratched to hec and I saw the thick windows and Lima stamp and couldn't believe the price. Listned to a couple of traders complaining about turning up to shows "not worth going to them" and I just put them down and walked off. I wouldn't even consider offering what I thought for them. I'm quite surprised with the ones I got though, yes they're a tad high on the bogies, the pizza cutters can presumably be swapped out. But step back 4' and I think they look better in some resspects than the old Poole Era GF stuff with printed sides and dodgy roof fitting. I can live without the white lining round the grey parts -all the older GF stuff has it all mis-printed which looks worse in my eye. Each to their own I guess.
Quote from: NeMo on March 18, 2016, 08:26:45 PM
Quote from: RST on March 18, 2016, 08:07:36 PM
Am I crazy thinking they've potential. I don't have scale track plans, my ballasting is dodgy so as long as I don't mix them with the ultra-fine new stuff they look quite passable at normal distances in my eye :worried:
Well, I think you've nailed it there.
By modern standards the Lima Mk1s aren't especially good coaches. To my eye the biggest problems are that they seem to ride a bit high above the bogies, and the windows are rather deeply recessed.
On the other hand, some of the Lima stuff has a lot of character, and the Mk1 coaches certainly capture the look and feel of the originals. I've always felt the Lima 86 captured the character of the original loco rather well, and one of those hauling a train of the Lima Mk1s would certainly be a fun addition to an otherwise serious layout.
Lima vs modern Farish:
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/25/thumb_24978.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=24978)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/25/thumb_24979.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=24979)
Lima 86 and Mk1:
http://youtu.be/mmTDlXJj_yo (http://youtu.be/mmTDlXJj_yo)
I've since acquired a Wrenn-branded Mk1 and a Minitrix (which has similarly deep windows) which make up a nice little fun/"historical" rake.
Each to their own, but personally I think they are horrendous, especially as there are 3 other, better, options:
- Minitrix - dated, but correct lengths, better bogies
- Poole Farish - better again, correct lengths, bogies, various versions, flush glazing
- New tool Farish - superdetail, best there is.
Lima ones have hideous underscale bogies, underscale lengths, deep recessed windows, very coarse wheels, wrong shape buffers. I can't see why anyone would choose them over a Poole Farish model for example, unless there was simply no other choice.
Cheers,
Alan
I think Dr Al you're missing the point. Nobody is saying these are realistic models by modern standards (or even compared to European stuff of similar vintage).
But the question is whether they're fun models to own if you can pick them up cheaply enough. I'd argue the Lima 86 has plenty of character, and if you've got one of those, why not stick a couple of Lima Mk1s behind it? :hmmm:
Cheers, NeMo
Quote from: Dr Al on March 19, 2016, 12:53:55 PM
Each to their own, but personally I think they are horrendous, especially as there are 3 other, better, options... I can't see why anyone would choose them over a Poole Farish model for example, unless there was simply no other choice.
Quote from: NeMo on March 19, 2016, 01:04:02 PM
I think Dr Al you're missing the point. Nobody is saying these are realistic models by modern standards (or even compared to European stuff of similar vintage).
But the question is whether they're fun models to own if you can pick them up cheaply enough. I'd argue the Lima 86 has plenty of character, and if you've got one of those, why not stick a couple of Lima Mk1s behind it? :hmmm:
Indeed. The sole reason I have mine is for historical interest, and they were dirt cheap as well. The small brace of 86s is for respraying practice before I let myself loose on the Dapol ones, but I'll certainly keep one in original condition.
Now, about those LoneStar Mk1s...
I have several Lima Mk1s and Minitrix Mk1s available for purchase if anyone is interested.
Please drop me a PM if so.
I tend to agree with Alan in that the Lima ones look pretty awful - especially alongside those of the 'proper' gauge.
I still run a couple of BR maroon Lima Mk1 BGs. The length is more or less correct in this shorter coach and the recessed windows don't jar on the eye quite so much as on the passenger stock. But the main advantage is that these are the only coaches I have that I can fit the Woodland Scenics 'Dust Monkeys' to the axle - must be something to do with the bogies riding too high and the pizza cutter wheels :D
Quote from: railsquid on March 19, 2016, 01:23:57 PM
The sole reason I have mine is for historical interest,
For me they show everything historically
dire about early N gauge - considering they were blown out of the water in 1981 when Farish released their Mk1s, to me their only value is as playthings for kids getting into N, and that's why they are cheap....few really want them!
Cheers,
Alan
Appears the Mk1s are modelled to 1:160 scale, because they've got a smaller body profile and are shorter than Minitrix's contemporary versions.
However, the bogies jut out more than usual and the BG is the same length - incorrectly - compared with the other Lima Mk1 types (BSK, CK, RMB) modelled.
OTOH their CCT, GWR Siphon and horsebox are modelled to 1:148 scale.
Quote from: Dr Al on March 19, 2016, 05:55:15 PM
Quote from: railsquid on March 19, 2016, 01:23:57 PM
The sole reason I have mine is for historical interest,
For me they show everything historically dire about early N gauge - considering they were blown out of the water in 1981 when Farish released their Mk1s, to me their only value is as playthings for kids getting into N, and that's why they are cheap....few really want them!
Don't worry, no-one's forcing you to buy any ;)
They are pretty horrible, though. I certainly won't be running any. Actually, when I think about it, I did have one once. Can't remember how I came by it, but I do remember throwing it in the bin :-[
Quote from: railsquid on March 19, 2016, 01:23:57 PM
Now, about those Lone Star Mk1s...
Lone Star vs Lima Death Match :claphappy:
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/6/thumb_36852.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=36852)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/6/thumb_36853.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=36853)
Quote from: Bealman on March 19, 2016, 10:18:58 PM
but I do remember throwing it in the bin :-[
You slipped up there. What you should have done is put it on ebay and used the words "Extremely rare" and "vintage" - you could have made a fortune :D - then one of us could have come along and put a post in under 'Ebay madness strikes again' :smiley-laughing:. David.
Quote from: dannyboy on March 19, 2016, 10:33:12 PMQuote from: Bealman on March 19, 2016, 10:18:58 PM
but I do remember throwing it in the bin :-[
You slipped up there. What you should have done is put it on ebay and used the words "Extremely rare" and "vintage"
Depending on what else was in the bin, "professionally weathered" too :thumbsup:
Quote from: dannyboy on March 19, 2016, 10:33:12 PM- you could have made a fortune :D - then one of us could have come along and put a post in under 'Ebay madness strikes again' :smiley-laughing:. David.
The prices they sometimes go for proves there are suckers out there. :hmmm:
Thanks for the idea, but when I binned it, the Internet wasn't around, yet alone fleabay (which I still don't know how to work)! More :-[
Quote from: Bealman on March 19, 2016, 11:36:50 PM
when I binned it
...that must have been an extremely satisfying throw.... :)
Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Arrachogaidh on March 21, 2016, 05:26:32 PM
Don't really understand why people criticise stuff that was made almost half a century ago.
They are what they are and were made at a time of different available technology.
Don't criticise just for the sake of it please. Do give the history of the hobby some respect.
But at the same time you could buy a Minitrix Mk1 which was correct length, had correct length bogies, had better wheels....etc....
Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Arrachogaidh on March 21, 2016, 05:26:32 PM
Don't really understand why people criticise stuff that was made almost half a century ago.
They are what they are and were made at a time of different available technology.
Thankfully progress is made and products evolve and hopefully get better quality although with that comes price. Also the current method of manufacturing in batches gives rise to crazy prices for items considered rare e.g. Network Rail Class 37's etc.
In time the older "vintage" items become heirlooms and looked on with historical nostalgia. Nothing wrong with running a prototypical "N Gauge" 1960's or 70's rake. It shows the history of the hobby.
I must say I am surprised at some of the prices vendors are achieving on EBay for all sorts of stuff. It isn't just sharp practice either. Respected retailers are involved as well. If they achieve the crazy prices it is because there is a market for the stuff whether it meets current standards or not.
Don't criticise just for the sake of it please. Do give the history of the hobby some respect.
Absolutely right. AND don't forget that some of these older models look just fine from a couple of feet away, especially if your eyesight is not as good as it used to be.
I think some of the elevated prices reflect what 'collectors' are prepared to pay rather than real railway modelers.
To my mind a model just have the right 'feel' about it rather than 100% accurate detail. Just my 2 pennerth.
:beers:
Quote from: Dr Al on March 21, 2016, 05:31:22 PM
Quote from: Arrachogaidh on March 21, 2016, 05:26:32 PM
Don't really understand why people criticise stuff that was made almost half a century ago.
They are what they are and were made at a time of different available technology.
Don't criticise just for the sake of it please. Do give the history of the hobby some respect.
But at the same time you could buy a Minitrix Mk1 which was correct length, had correct length bogies, had better wheels....etc....
And if the advertisements in a 1982 copy of Railway Modeller are anything to go by, cost about 60% more (GBP 3.00 vs GBP 1.85). I have an idea which I probably would have been buying with my pocket money, had I been into N at the time.
Quote from: railsquid on March 21, 2016, 09:29:55 PM
And if the advertisements in a 1982 copy of Railway Modeller are anything to go by, cost about 60% more (GBP 3.00 vs GBP 1.85). I have an idea which I probably would have been buying with my pocket money, had I been into N at the time.
Yep, I'd have been buying none of those, because the far superior (old Poole) Farish Mk1s had been released in 1981. They were retailing below the price of the Minitrix ones going by Aug 1982 RM...
...Lima stuff was cheap, quite simply because most of it was dire (CCT and Syphon being the exceptions), even by the standards of the day. There were plenty of articles lambasting them even back then (I remember one in particular in MRC, maybe 1983 type time), and showing ingenious and huge efforts to try and just cut them down to scale.
Cheers,
Alan
Yeah, I remember that issue. In fact I think I might still have it here somewhere.
I really must get around to throwing a lot of my old magazines! :no:
Quote from: Bealman on March 21, 2016, 10:52:13 PM
Yeah, I remember that issue. In fact I think I might still have it here somewhere.
That's one to keep - it's that with the well known "Daventry Garden Railway" as RotM. Inspirational stuff.
Cheers,
Alan
I remember that garden railway too, but I don't recall MRC having a Railway of the Month feature. You've got me intrigued now.... Mrs B left me instructions to do a few things before she left for work this morning.... now it looks like I'll be overturning the study looking for that mag instead! ;D
Quote from: Bealman on March 21, 2016, 11:42:43 PM
I remember that garden railway too, but I don't recall MRC having a Railway of the Month feature. You've got me intrigued now.... Mrs B left me instructions to do a few things before she left for work this morning.... now it looks like I'll be overturning the study looking for that mag instead! ;D
Ah, sorry, no MRC didn't have that - what I was referring to previously was an article going to town on how to try and make Lima stock look more like something believable - hacking the heck out of 55s, 31s to actually try to get them down closer to scale. A valiant effort to the individual who attempted it.
Cheers,
Alan
Too late - I've started overturning the study looking for it..... turning up all sorts of interesting old mags. Much better way to spend the day than cleaning up leaves which were my orders for today! :D
There's apparently an issue from around that time detailing how to convert a Lima 86 into a class 87 which I'd be interested in acquiring on the offchance you come across it.
I'll keep an eye out for it, Squiddy. Just took a break from the mags and took a pic of this on me garage wall:
[smg id=36942 type=preview align=center width=400]
.... it seems even their continental models also had steam roller wheels at the time!
While, also about then, Hornby were apparently selling prototype Flying Scotsman locomotives!
[smg id=36943 type=preview align=center width=400]