Looking across the forum in recent weeks/months I am observing a trend towards the use of servo control of points and possibly signals, crossing gates/barriers. There is also a rising interest in using Arduino and other controllers in conjunction with the servo's.
While I am aware that setting up new section in a forum is not always the easiest of tasks, it may well be in everyone's best interest to find a way to pull all of the threads on this subject in to a single place as opposed to how things are right now. As this is a rising interest, there is not an established way to make sure that such posts are seen or responded to. Might now be a good time to stop these posts spreading across the forum any further with the possible consequent loss and dilution of valuable information?
I don't presume to suggest how this could be structured, or where in the forum it would fit best, but I do think that it would be a valuable addition to the amazing resource that is the NGF.
I am aware that this is, and will remain, a niche interest, but I believe it will grow.
What do other members think of this?
:NGF:
Regards, Allan.....
ps: Arduino's are easier to understand than DCC (even if they do need more than 2 wires! ;) )
I think it's a great idea! :claphappy:
Great idea!
Given that there are barely 3 pages of items in the
existing Electronics forum,
what benefit does this give ? People are unable to look through 2 pages + 1 post on the 3rd page ??? It's hardly like trawling through a 20+ page area full of totally unrelated posts ... I think it's only 14 threads per page ?
Things Arduino / PIC / whatever, as long as they are in Electronics,
aren't
Quotespreading across the forum any further with the possible consequent loss and dilution of valuable information
- they are
already Quotein to a single place
and if mis-located the Mods can easily route them into Electronics ...
It gets my vote. I know nothing of Arduino (nor Raspeberry Pi) and would welcome a from the ground up tutorial or explanation of sorts.
I understand it can be used to operate a stepper motor (nice article in the NGS Journal), but beyond that, what can it do. Why should I want one or two or three. How many do I need. :confused1:
Sell it to me. But, as you suggest, sell it to me in one dedicated place of the forum. :thumbsup:
Quote from: MikeDunn on March 01, 2016, 02:57:02 PM
Given that there are barely 3 pages of items in the existing Electronics forum, what benefit does this give ? People are unable to look through 2 pages + 1 post on the 3rd page ??? It's hardly like trawling through a 20+ page area full of totally unrelated posts ... I think it's only 14 threads per page ?
Things Arduino / PIC / whatever, as long as they are in Electronics, aren't
Quotespreading across the forum any further with the possible consequent loss and dilution of valuable information
- they are already Quotein to a single place
and if mis-located the Mods can easily route them into Electronics ...
well, for instance, my Arduino thread is in the DC Wiring section of Your Layouts and models. Mostly because I didn't know there was an electronics section and also because it's less about electronics and more about using an Arduino, servos, stepper motors etc. on my layout. (actually *where is* the electronics forum?)
As I've found, you don't need to know a lot about electronics to use this sort of kit and I wouldn't put Arduino or Raspberry Pi programming in electronics either. It's not specifically DC or DCC either and it's a growing area where there's quite a few of us either experimenting with it or have some knowledge of its various uses to share.
Quote from: Zwilnik on March 01, 2016, 03:37:20 PM
(actually *where is* the electronics forum?)
:thumbsup: What he said! Where?
The Electronics board is a sub board of Scenery/Landscaping
Quote from: ColinH on March 01, 2016, 04:22:25 PM
The Electronics board is a sub board of Scenery/Landscaping
Ah! Of course................ It's obvious now! :confused1:
Quote from: MikeDunn on March 01, 2016, 02:57:02 PM
Given that there are barely 3 pages of items in the existing Electronics forum, what benefit does this give ? People are unable to look through 2 pages + 1 post on the 3rd page ??? It's hardly like trawling through a 20+ page area full of totally unrelated posts ... I think it's only 14 threads per page ?
Things Arduino / PIC / whatever, as long as they are in Electronics, aren't
Quotespreading across the forum any further with the possible consequent loss and dilution of valuable information
- they are already Quotein to a single place
and if mis-located the Mods can easily route them into Electronics ...
I'm not sure if this quoted post is a no vote on a new forum section or a put down of the mods!
Let me comment on the reference to the mods first - moving the posts to the Electronics section would not seem the right thing to do - it's headed with
'Electronics for lights etc. Not for DC and DCC related questions (please use the dedicated boards for that).
With that said, let me expand on my case for a separate forum section...
My post is to try to make a case for adding a dedicated board to those for DC and DCC.
Well then, I just did a search of the forum using the single word Arduino. I got multiple pages of results to a total of over 90 items. I have no intention of analysing that in any sort of depth but here are a few things from the first 20-ish on the first page...
Headings/Posts General discussion 4
Electronics 3
DC wiring 4
N Gauge discussion 3
DCC 3
Layout Planning 1
Layout Construction 2
N gauge tutorials 1
Sound 1
While you mention 'Arduino/PIC/what ever', I have restricted my quick search to Arduino and that alone brought up the results mentioned and tabulated above. So, you see, they are NOT in the 'Electronics area'.
What benefit does it give you ask... Well, perhaps none for you, but I do feel that for those who are interested in the subject, quite a bit! I, for example am not interested in either DCC or Sound and don't look in those sections. It seems then, that using your model of forum use, I should perhaps search the forum each day with Arduino as a search term, just in case I miss something!
What he said ^^^
(Beat me to it. I did teh same search with -obviously- identical results.)
I feel a new thread is a good idea, plus having all things arduino and Raspberry Pi in the one place may well encourage posts with hints and tips.
Tank is the only one who has the authority to set up a new topic, so I will have a word and see what can be done :thumbsup:
Cheers John.
Quote from: Zogbert Splod on March 01, 2016, 04:28:35 PM
I'm not sure if this quoted post is a no vote on a new forum section or a put down of the mods!
More a "why ?" than a no, or a Mod-slap ;)
Quote
it's headed with 'Electronics for lights etc. Not for DC and DCC related questions (please use the dedicated boards for that).
And stuff like wiring for points doesn't fit under the "etc" because ... ?
QuoteIt seems then, that using your model of forum use, I should perhaps search the forum each day with Arduino as a search term, just in case I miss something!
What model of forum use ? Where did I prescribe one ?
What I said was "as long as they are in Electronics" - now, there may be a reason why they are located elsewhere - but I note Bealman's Arduino thread is located in - surprise ! - the Electronics area. There is an argument to be made about putting things in the right place - having
another location won't magically improve things ... it just means
another place to have to look ...
Quote from: MikeDunn on March 01, 2016, 04:58:27 PM
Quote from: Zogbert Splod on March 01, 2016, 04:28:35 PM
I'm not sure if this quoted post is a no vote on a new forum section or a put down of the mods!
More a "why ?" than a no, or a Mod-slap ;)
Quote
it's headed with 'Electronics for lights etc. Not for DC and DCC related questions (please use the dedicated boards for that).
And stuff like wiring for points doesn't fit under the "etc" because ... ?
QuoteIt seems then, that using your model of forum use, I should perhaps search the forum each day with Arduino as a search term, just in case I miss something!
What model of forum use ? Where did I prescribe one ?
What I said was "as long as they are in Electronics" - now, there may be a reason why they are located elsewhere - but I note Bealman's Arduino thread is located in - surprise ! - the Electronics area. There is an argument to be made about putting things in the right place - having another location won't magically improve things ... it just means another place to have to look ...
Does all this negativity come naturally, or do you have to practice?
Why can't you see the positive side of things, even when that positivity may be limited.
John.
Were I being negative, I would have said something like "there is no point in doing this at all". Instead, I asked what the benefit would be, and pointed out we already have an Electronics section. How is that negative ?
Strangely enough, I was under the impression that in this country we have something known as "free speech", and that debate is welcome. Evidently not by you.
Now, do you actually have anything to contribute to this thread, or would you prefer to attack me further ?
Ok, so while Mike's post is very easily interpreted as being a tad negative and confrontational ( ;) ) he does raise some valid points and his bravery/insanity at carrying on being confrontational to a mod deserves some credit :)
While the current Electronics forum definitely isn't a good place for this topic, otherwise someone would have posted in it, maybe a minor topic re-organise may be the way forward?
For instance, maybe change the Electronics topic to being All things non DCC/DC 'traditional' wiring (someone may need to come up with a better description) and move it from the scenery forum to the Layout Construction forum where it's more practical and probably more visible. (maybe a sticky notice for a week so everyone knows there's a new toy to play with). That way we're making better use of an underused sub-forum and making it easier for those of us doing gadgetry on our layouts to find it. There you call. Call it Gadgetry instead of Electronics :) (or Electronic Gadgetry just to clarify it? )
You may not regard your posts to be negative which brings me to the conclusion that being negative comes naturally to you since you can't see that yourself.
As for free speech, I posted nothing to suggest I was denying your rights.
Believe me when I say I did not attack you, I only pointed out your posts were negative.
It would be good to think we can get back on topic but I doubt it as you will no doubt take the time to reply to this post.
John.
considering pis and ardunios are computers perhaps all topics relating to them should be in the computer sub forum :P
I think that there is room for a Servo/servo controllers/Arduino/Pi forum thread - i have no problems with putting it under electronics - and we could rationalise the existing threads?
it is a developing area for points control / level crossings/things that go bump or squeak and deserves singling out.
so a vote from me ( and I may have been the first to suggest it?)
Nick R
Quote from: themadhippy on March 01, 2016, 05:48:34 PM
considering pis and ardunios are computers perhaps all topics relating to them should be in the computer sub forum :P
however there a number of pure servo controllers ( not programmable) hence probably not computers?
Quote from: Railwaygun on March 01, 2016, 05:49:32 PM
I think that there is room for a Servo/servo controllers/Arduino/Pi forum thread - i have no problems with putting it under electronics - and we could rationalise the existing threads?
it is a developing area for points control / level crossings/things that go bump or squeak and deserves singling out.
so a vote from me ( and I may have been the first to suggest it?)
Nick R
You certainly suggested that I should suggest it... :smiley-laughing:
Quote from: MikeDunn on March 01, 2016, 04:58:27 PM
Quote from: Zogbert Splod on March 01, 2016, 04:28:35 PM
I'm not sure if this quoted post is a no vote on a new forum section or a put down of the mods!
More a "why ?" than a no, or a Mod-slap ;)
I think that the 'why' has been well covered.
Quote from: MikeDunn on March 01, 2016, 04:58:27 PM
Quote from: Zogbert Splod on March 01, 2016, 04:28:35 PM
it's headed with 'Electronics for lights etc. Not for DC and DCC related questions (please use the dedicated boards for that).
And stuff like wiring for points doesn't fit under the "etc" because ... ?
Because there is a forum for 'Track, points and underlay' perhaps?
Quote from: MikeDunn on March 01, 2016, 04:58:27 PM
Quote from: Zogbert Splod on March 01, 2016, 04:28:35 PM
It seems then, that using your model of forum use, I should perhaps search the forum each day with Arduino as a search term, just in case I miss something!
What model of forum use ? Where did I prescribe one ?
Right here:
Quote from: MikeDunn on March 01, 2016, 04:58:27 PM
Given that there are barely 3 pages of items in the existing Electronics forum, what benefit does this give ? People are unable to look through 2 pages + 1 post on the 3rd page ??? It's hardly like trawling through a 20+ page area full of totally unrelated posts ... I think it's only 14 threads per page ?
Quote from: MikeDunn on March 01, 2016, 04:58:27 PM
What I said was "as long as they are in Electronics" - now, there may be a reason why they are located elsewhere - but I note Bealman's Arduino thread is located in - surprise ! - the Electronics area. There is an argument to be made about putting things in the right place - having another location won't magically improve things ... it just means another place to have to look ...
Yes, Bealman's Arduino thread is indeed located in Electronics. There are also Arduino threads located in a large number of alternative places across the forum. I suggest that having another dedicated location would indeed improve things by making it easier to find something that those interested could use. It would also make it easier for the mods to move posts to an appropriate place if the occasion required it. As far as being another place to
have to look. Nah, no one
has to look at any section of the forum.
With that said, there seems to be a reasonable amount of support for the possibility of such an added section so I would suggest that you acknowledge that you wouldn't really
need to enter that section of the forum if you choose not to, and, become a little less confrontational and negative.
Quote from: Railwaygun on March 01, 2016, 05:50:39 PM
Quote from: themadhippy on March 01, 2016, 05:48:34 PM
considering pis and ardunios are computers perhaps all topics relating to them should be in the computer sub forum :P
however there a number of pure servo controllers ( not programmable) hence probably not computers?
That's why I'm thinking it should be an Electronic Gadgetry forum. So it covers programable gadgets as well as the simple boxes (that may involve some pre-done programming under the hood) that just involve plugging in. The computer sub forum is more for people having issues with their computers anyway, and very detached from actual fun stuff with railway modelling.
Wow, that escalated quickly!
Okay, here's a novel idea. Why not Create a NEW Electronics Forum (ditch the one in scenics) and then have sub forums (sub-forum? Sub-fori? Sub-fora?) inside that for each of Arduino, Rasp Pi, BlackCurrant Jam, Strawberry Switchblade, etc, etc.
No ambiguity, no confusion, no problem :D
Happy modelling everyone, and play nice!
Quote from: Zwilnik on March 01, 2016, 05:59:21 PM
Quote from: Railwaygun on March 01, 2016, 05:50:39 PM
Quote from: themadhippy on March 01, 2016, 05:48:34 PM
considering pis and ardunios are computers perhaps all topics relating to them should be in the computer sub forum :P
however there a number of pure servo controllers ( not programmable) hence probably not computers?
That's why I'm thinking it should be an Electronic Gadgetry forum. So it covers programable gadgets as well as the simple boxes (that may involve some pre-done programming under the hood) that just involve plugging in. The computer sub forum is more for people having issues with their computers anyway, and very detached from actual fun stuff with railway modelling.
Good points there...
I am jumping ahead of myself here but possibly the set up could be:
Control electronics and servo's Arduino
RasPi
PIC
Other controllers
Servo'sI have mod-ed and run forums in the past and I know it can be complex and time consuming to re-frame a board like this, so this is just a discussion at this point. Lets not run away with it.
You beat me to it, well, something like it anyhow... I'm with you ScottyStitch... Yeah, what he said ^^^^^ up there.....
Quote from: ScottyStitch on March 01, 2016, 06:06:32 PM
Why not Create a NEW Electronics Forum (ditch the one in scenics) and then have sub forums (sub-forum? Sub-fori? Sub-fora?) inside that for each of Arduino, Rasp Pi, BlackCurrant Jam, Strawberry Switchblade, etc, etc.
No ambiguity, no confusion, no problem :D
Makes sense to me :thumbsup:. David.
As I am just starting with the Arduino boards it would help me if everything is in one place
Graham
When I joined the forum last summer, my father had suggested I look at Arduino control for DCC but there was little about it on the forum and I didn't want to have to utilize an all electronics forum or a different modeling forum just to get the help I needed. In the last few months, it seems a large number of members have started using/posting about Arduinos and RasPis and I am suddenly much more interested in using it as an option. I think a single place bringing these topics together would be welcome as ultimately these programmable platforms are so versatile that they don't fit neatly into an extant category and, because of their specialized requirements (programming, etc), they stand out somewhat from other similar topics, be that point control or anything else. The way you approach these tools is fundamentally different than other elements of our modeling, precisely because they are so versatile and so user-dependent. For someone looking to see if Arduinos or the like are an avenue they might be interested in pursuing, a single location bringing these threads together would be most welcome indeed. Just my thoughts :)
The reason that Electronics ended up under Scenery and Landscaping is because initially, the topic was about lighting buildings, switching lights on and off in buildings etc. However things have moved on since that time and my vote is that the Electronics section should become a Board in its own right.
I am not sure that it should spawn a multitude of sub-boards though :worried: This forum already has a vast number of sub-boards - some of which are hardly used. For example, I was guilty :-[ of asking for a sub-board on Water (ponds, sea etc) to be created and it has very little use. A few posts on a particular topic at a point in time does not automatically translate into new sub-boards that will get a lot traffic.
The other issue is that when using the mobile version of the site, it can take ages to scroll down the list of Boards :no: and sub-boards to find the topic of interest so my vote is to keep things simple.
So I think we should move the Electronics sub-board and make it a main Board and then monitor it to see if sub-boards are justified.
Good News - Tank has moved the Electronics section and it is now a main board (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?board=157.0)
We will start to migrate electronic related topics into this board. There are some in the DC and DCC sections - do you want to keep them in these sections or want them moved into the Electronics section?
Personally, I think 'DC' and 'DCC' should be kept as they are, with a seperate section for 'other' electronics. If I am looking for something 'DC' related, I would start looking under 'DC', although I appreciate that there is a fine line to be drawn somewhere, as 'DC' wiring is by necessity, 'electronic'. ???. I do not envy Tank, or whoever, sorting this one out. :doh:. David.
Quote from: dannyboy on March 02, 2016, 08:30:46 PM
'DC' wiring is by necessity, 'electronic'. ???
Technically it's not. DC wiring is by necessity 'electrical', but NOT necessarily 'electronic'.
Generally, something only becomes 'electronic' when it contains silicon components to switch currents, such as transistors/microchips etc. DC wiring can be done without any of that.
I know I'm being pedantic, but I thought it worth making the distinction. :sorrysign:
Quote from: jrb on March 02, 2016, 09:36:54 PM
Quote from: dannyboy on March 02, 2016, 08:30:46 PM
'DC' wiring is by necessity, 'electronic'. ???
I know I'm being pedantic, but I thought it worth making the distinction. :sorrysign:
I only used the word 'electronic' as that is the subject of the 'new'(?) section - I could have used 'electrickery' but I know what you are saying, (cos I can be pedantic at times :)). David.
Quotesomething only becomes 'electronic' when it contains silicon
If were being pedantic what about germanium isnt that electronics,or thermionic valves although i suppose there closer to black magic
You can do black magic with a couple of beam tetrodes and a pentode or two. :D
Quote from: themadhippy on March 02, 2016, 09:56:41 PM
Quotesomething only becomes 'electronic' when it contains silicon
If were being pedantic what about germanium isnt that electronics,or thermionic valves although i suppose there closer to black magic
And further on the pedantic front -
there should be spelt 'they're' ;)
Quote from: themadhippy on March 02, 2016, 09:56:41 PM
Quotesomething only becomes 'electronic' when it contains silicon
If were being pedantic what about germanium isnt that electronics,or thermionic valves although i suppose there closer to black magic
Touche...
Go on then, I'll give you that. :P
Quote from: jrb on March 02, 2016, 10:21:49 PM
Quote from: themadhippy on March 02, 2016, 09:56:41 PM
Quotesomething only becomes 'electronic' when it contains silicon
If were being pedantic what about germanium isnt that electronics,or thermionic valves although i suppose there closer to black magic
And being even more pedantic 'were' should be 'we are' or we're :P :). David.
I trained as an engineer,not an author :P
Quote from: themadhippy on March 02, 2016, 10:58:40 PM
I trained as an engineer,not an author :P
:smiley-laughing: It's a good job we can all take the comments in the spirit in which they are intended. :beers: David.
I
When the "electrinics" section first appearead I wasn't the only person who voiced up it wasn't in a logical place. Just glad it's finally been moved into it's own proper section now and should get the correct exposure. Aas for finding stuff, there is and always has been the forum search, or if you're not logged in apend ".ngaugeforum" in google or just a straight search in google.
I think Pengi echos my thoughts also -too many subforums -7 for each day of the week, another two depending whether it was am/pm and another split depending there is a "r" in the month + another for each and every supplier out there. For me it's as easy as if it's not DCC then it's DC -but otherwise moving the "electronics" thread up is absolutely the right thing to do :thumbsup:
Since I was the originator of this thread, I would like to say a big thank you to all who have contributed to it. The result is that there is now a more obvious place where we, those of us who wish to, can post and/or look/search for what we are interested in.
I have already sent a PM of thanks to Tank but have just now thought that it may be nice, on behalf of all interested parties, to do so publicly. So, thanks to Tank, and also to the mods, who now have an extra beat to police.....
It has long been my feeling that this is the best 'n'gauge resource on the Web, and now, even more so...
Regards, Allan..... :NGF:
Quote from: themadhippy on March 02, 2016, 10:58:40 PM
I trained as an engineer,not an author :P
As we used to say...last week I couldn't spell engineer, now I is one! :bounce:
Why do engines need ears anyway?
Quote from: railsquid on March 03, 2016, 02:47:31 PM
Why do engines need ears anyway?
Cos Noddy would not pay the ransom
:bounce:
When the corniest of jokes start appearing, then it is a sure sign that the topic has run its course :locked: