After "one of those days" that didnt start well, I eventually decided on some light relief in the experimental area of my railway room and propped up a yard of flexi to see what a loco and a few wagons could achieve. Or maybe I just fancied taking it out on something !
This could maybe have gone in the Layout Planning section because I have long thought that my next project might be a Gumstump type, involving some sharp inclines.
Anyway :
A Farish 4F plus two tanks and a pipe wagon was no problem to climb ~30mm in 2ft. I was amazed !
( as you no doubt are at the mix of measures, sorry about that but we need to keep both the in and the out campaigns happy ;) )
I'm not sure if this pic. will work, it is very very long and thin (so check back often as I experiment with adding/subtracting content ! there is an avi in the offing when I get it under control :) )
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/81786082/NG/GS60122.jpg)
Ummm, well not as long/big as I expected, but you get the idea ! edit : did not show up in the preview, but now that it is posted a click on the +image and then a click on the arrowed square shows it in all its glory ! :)
The nose of the loco is on the 2ft marker,
and the maths are 30mm in 600mm = 5%
so a very short Gumstump should be poss.
later I added a Mk1 coach behind and it did that as well, so should be ok with the relative few wagons needed for a real gumstump.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/81786082/NG/GS60098.jpg)
Youtube is being a bit of a pain, what happens if I img-link an avi ? :-
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/81786082/NG/P1160115.avi)
nope that didnt work !
how about a direct link to my Dropbox , beware a) it is 31Mb and b ) those of a nervous disposition should look away cos it all nearly ends in a 'Bridge on River Kwai' moment :) !
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/81786082/NG/P1160115.avi (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/81786082/NG/P1160115.avi)
hmmmm, more research needed :(
Your calculations tend to fail if you intend putting underlay beneath the lower track the tank wagon is standing on and some kind of baseboard beneath the upper level track. I think you'll need to go higher, Malcolm :hmmm:
When I built my incline, I started with the top at 50mm as there are tracks running underneath. All went well until I tried one of my US locos and the air horn caught under the bridge, so I had to jack it up a couple of mm.
My experimentation has shown that a 4% gradient is the maximum my Farish/Dapol non-kettles can haul my standard length rakes (3/4 coaches) up. My sole British kettle, a Farish 4MT, also works fine. I've settled on 60mm as a standard level height.
Quote from: newportnobby on February 21, 2016, 10:45:38 AM
underlay beneath the lower track the tank wagon is standing on and some kind of baseboard beneath the upper level track.
There is already underlay under the tank track ( corrugated cardboard at the mo. ! ) and also under the start of the incline - ie. datum.
However yes, very good point thanks, non below the flyover !! oops ! It is not yet decided if this is to be a scenic model and hence some sort of tunnel / arch / bridge deck under it or maybe a rule1 of a thin plate,,, maybe even just a couple of inches unsupported, all to be worked out yet, so far it was just a flight of fancy at the end of a bad day that nearly needed a 999, but that's another story :(
Ok Malc, no this will only be British steam, serving a classic Gumstump - mineshaft and maybe a hill station at the top level, so thanks Squid, no need for long rakes :)
Thanks for your thoughts guys, the experiments continue so keep a good watch for any faux pas I may produce ;D
Today I have been fiddling again :)
two tanks, a wagon and a coach, the 4F made it up 5% but only just !
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/81786082/NG/GS60119coach.jpg)
Then I replaced the tank with a more proper loco :
Eeek I think we class this (30mm) as a near miss ! :D
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/81786082/NG/GS60125.jpg)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/81786082/NG/GS60125s.jpg)
The eventual Gumstump would achieve the 'lift' in two stages, so should be able to do it ok on a 2ft central section of a 4ft board (allowing 1ft each end for kickback and scenic bits. ) SCARM is being composed ;)
Well it keeps me out of mischief, off the streets etc :smiley-laughing:
thanks for reading.
Interesting would it work if you took a deep breath in before going under???
:claphappy:
Quote from: GeeBee on February 21, 2016, 04:43:44 PM
Interesting would it work if you took a deep breath in before going under???
:claphappy:
:laughabovepost:
They were living breathing beasts :)
In terms of real railway girder bridge could have as little as 18" from soffit to running edge, maybe less. There would be no sleepers. With overscale model sleepers you are already on the minimum so a paper underside to your track and card parapets to your steel bridge and you are sorted.
Here's an example. You can get the proportions from this. For £15 you can have a proper download.
http://nr.mediastorehouse.com/accommodation-bridge-at-76m-34ch-didcot-to-chester-nd/print/11377200.html (http://nr.mediastorehouse.com/accommodation-bridge-at-76m-34ch-didcot-to-chester-nd/print/11377200.html)
Quote from: FourWheelCoach on February 21, 2016, 08:23:22 PM
and you are sorted.
I like your thinking ! Nice one :)
As you can see I am still
abusing playing with code80 & setrack, partly because my first 3 locos that I wanted were only available in Farish sets, I do have a length of code55 flex just to observe the difference,, at my age with my eyes not a lot :)
but so far I have yet to make up my mind which track to take
( ! much like some politicians till this evening ! ,, ooops ! that is meant to be a joke but if I am straying too far please a mod. edit it !! )
Here's a quite reasonable off the shelf one for about £20 by Atlas. There's a less detailed one widely available for about £8.
(http://www.gaugemaster.com/_upload/imgs/lrg/30560482/AL2070.jpg)
Might be less faff than making one....
Quote from: FourWheelCoach on February 21, 2016, 09:45:29 PM
Might be less faff than making one....
But I do enjoy a good bit of 'faff' :) and am a fan of card models. A good bit of inspiration there, thank you.
meanwhile I have been playing in SCARM and I think I can fit the core element of a Gumstump into a 2ft x 1ft area on a 4ft bit of celotex foam base (offered by a local DIY store and would fit into my car!)
This is getting serious, I may have to abscond to the Planning section at this rate ! :-
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/81786082/NG/ExpGS3ds.jpg)
The light green areas are the 1ft x 1ft wings of the yet undefined kick-backs and inglenook areas.
Quote from: MalcolmAL on February 21, 2016, 11:33:13 PM
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/81786082/NG/ExpGS3ds.jpg)
The light green areas are the 1ft x 1ft wings of the yet undefined kick-backs and inglenook areas.
Looking at that and mindful of my experiments today, if your board was six inches wider you could get an 8" radius loop on the near end. I've had a Bachmann Farish Jinty pulling 12 wagons round one all afternoon. Well 7 1/2" in my case.
Not sure if that would add to or detract from your concept but it's a thought. Maybe a goods shed of some sort so that full wagons went in and "disappeared" while empty ones were pulled out, the "full" ones then reappearing in the lower part of the model and vice versa?
The curve may be too tight once the gradient is added in although what about "wagon return by gravity"?
Quote from: FourWheelCoach on February 22, 2016, 12:00:24 AM
Looking at that and mindful of my experiments today,
Bachmann Farish Jinty pulling 12 wagons round one all afternoon. Well 7 1/2" in my case.
Have you a topic somewhere that I may have missed ? I thought there was a smiley for "We like pictures" but I cant find it so :-- :photospleasesign: !! :)
I've not got as far as thinking about what it could plug in to, good point, it could be a stand alone plank type thingy AND with a hint from the T-track modular boys it could well be part of something big ! :D
The long low level track could be part of a roundy with the mountain of the Gumstump being the scenic break from another similar size module at the back , ,
now where did i put my thinking-cap , ,
I'll take some next time I get it out. Might be a few days. I like the idea of automation, you maybe prefer manual shunting. I think some cunning additions to the gumstump concept could give an automated supply of loaded wagons to the top depot for you to then bring to the mainline and conversly take the empty wagons that you have shunted up the hill and freewheel them back (out of sight) to be taken back up again..
This would give the illusion of empty wagons going up the hill to the mine and being loaded before being brought back full.
Quote from: MalcolmAL on February 22, 2016, 03:40:15 PM
Quote from: FourWheelCoach on February 22, 2016, 12:00:24 AM
Looking at that and mindful of my experiments today,
Bachmann Farish Jinty pulling 12 wagons round one all afternoon. Well 7 1/2" in my case.
Have you a topic somewhere that I may have missed ?
The forum software won't let me paste the link so just look for my New Dalby thread. No pics yet. ...
Quote from: FourWheelCoach on February 22, 2016, 07:38:11 PM
The forum software won't let me paste the link so just look for my New Dalby thread. No pics yet. ...
Yep, found it thanks, interesting
Strange that the forum wouldnt allow, lets try :-
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=31571.msg360051#msg360051 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=31571.msg360051#msg360051)
Quote from: FourWheelCoach on February 22, 2016, 07:24:35 PM
some cunning additions to the gumstump concept
Something like this perhaps ( I've been learning how to make terrain in SCARM :)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/81786082/NG/GS6b2.jpg)
Not sure it would be prototypical to have standard gauge going into a mine shaft to be filled with coal/ore !
However, I have made a mistake, the foam board I was thinking of is actually 1200mm x 450mm, which makes it nearer 18" wide not 12 " !! so a bit more room to play with and potential for more extensive loading facilities at each of the two elevations.
I was thinking of the empty wagons going into a covered loading facility be it for a mine, timberyard, factory, brewery or whatever. They are then replaced with loaded ones "behind the scenes", the empty ones reappearing at the mainline via the "secret loop" as though they were coming back from the destination the goods had been shipped to. (And vice versa)
Quote from: FourWheelCoach on February 22, 2016, 11:40:42 PM
I was thinking of the empty wagons going into a covered loading facility be it for a mine, timberyard, factory, brewery or whatever.
Yes I see, thanks for your thoughts, ( my disapearing mine shaft was just an idle topic !)
the brewery appeals , I do a lot of home brewing !
A covered facility becomes much more possible with the 12 to 18" discovery, even to the extent of a narrow gauge mine shaft ( or whatever) local facility,,, but I may now be getting ahead of my capabilities :) anyhows, thanks for your thoughts,,, I'll marinate - -