As some people will know I am modelling (along with other Cleveland Model Railway Club) a representative (as opposed to acurate) model of Northalerton on the East Coast Mainline. (see sig)
I'm looking for help regarding the catenary.
The layout itself has three track sections which need to be modelled with catenary. The model depicts a transition from two lines to three lines to four line track.
For the two line I can use Dapol catenary but not for the three or four lines. Ive asked at nbrasslocos and he has suggested I can use elements from his range, namely the register arms and support pulleys but everything else I will need to do myself. Has anyone else done this? Any picture anywhere?
thanks
Kirky
Afternoon!
I'm waiting for dapol to FINALLY release their gantries before I even start track laying on my ecml layout! :veryangry:
Regards
Phil
For Neely, I made my own OHLE posts and brackets
[smg id=35576 type=preview align=center caption="image"]
Much of the ECML is headspans, not gantries, hence your problems. There's a poster on RMWeb called 'doughnut', whose (OO gauge) layout features some pretty awesome (to my uneducated eye) scratch built OHLE including headspans. Forget the layout name. There's a big thread.
Drem may be worth a look too, the prototype is slightly further north than your layout, but N gauge ECML still.
Edit: Minsterley (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/78216-minsterley-modern-image-ohle-layout/). It's a bit of a jumble of stuff, but includes some headspan shots.
I think Sommerfeldt do them in N, but whether you're happy with the European prototype (and exorbitant cost) is something only you can decide!
When asked by colleagues at our Club about headspans and catenary on Neely, I tell them that we've trapped the spider but its training is proving very difficult!
Quote from: G_N_E_R on February 19, 2016, 04:54:58 PM
Afternoon!
I'm waiting for dapol to FINALLY release their gantries before I even start track laying on my ecml layout! :veryangry:
Regards
Phil
Without a doubt they can be expected about a week after we have completed making our own!
Kirky
Quote from: terrysoham on February 19, 2016, 04:58:56 PM
For Neely, I made my own OHLE posts and brackets
[smg id=35576 type=preview align=center caption="image"]
And very nice it is too.
But I think it is the headspan catenary posts I am after.
At least its not altogether impossible.
cheers
Kirky
Quote from: njee20 on February 19, 2016, 06:04:12 PM
Much of the ECML is headspans, not gantries, hence your problems. There's a poster on RMWeb called 'doughnut', whose (OO gauge) layout features some pretty awesome (to my uneducated eye) scratch built OHLE including headspans. Forget the layout name. There's a big thread.
Drem may be worth a look too, the prototype is slightly further north than your layout, but N gauge ECML still.
Edit: Minsterley (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/78216-minsterley-modern-image-ohle-layout/). It's a bit of a jumble of stuff, but includes some headspan shots.
I think Sommerfeldt do them in N, but whether you're happy with the European prototype (and exorbitant cost) is something only you can decide!
Thankyou for that information, that is just what I am after.
Yes I think I've seen the sommerfeldt catenary gear, and yes it is expensive. Having said that, we could do with it sooner rather than later and this might be the way to go.
Thanks
Kirky
The ECML catenary is of the Mk3 design, which has the familiar Dapol-style single masts and wire headspans across multiple tracks. These would be a real challenge to portray in N but could be possible with fine wire and some careful soldering.
Here's a picture of a 3-track span just north of Peterborough that shows just how fine these structures are. Indeed, they are often to blame for the massive disruption when the wires come down, taking out 4 lines at once instead of just the one!
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/t31.0-8/12716349_10153432322501033_4402985478561918013_o.jpg)
Quote from: captainelectra on February 19, 2016, 07:54:59 PM
The ECML catenary is of the Mk3 design, which has the familiar Dapol-style single masts and wire headspans across multiple tracks. These would be a real challenge to portray in N but could be possible with fine wire and some careful soldering.
Here's a picture of a 3-track span just north of Peterborough that shows just how fine these structures are. Indeed, they are often to blame for the massive disruption when the wires come down, taking out 4 lines at once instead of just the one!
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/t31.0-8/12716349_10153432322501033_4402985478561918013_o.jpg)
An interesting shot this - thanks Adam.
Two things I would take from this....
1) The wires
are visible
2) They look "white" rather than black or "coppery"
So I would recommend for the wires the white "jumper cuff" elastic - as I have used..... :angel: rather than black or verdigris EZLine.
I would have a crack at headspans if necessary.... Using 10 thou steel wire or similar - might not be too hard.
Cheers Jon :)
Quote from: PostModN66 on February 19, 2016, 08:38:12 PM
Quote from: captainelectra on February 19, 2016, 07:54:59 PM
The ECML catenary is of the Mk3 design, which has the familiar Dapol-style single masts and wire headspans across multiple tracks. These would be a real challenge to portray in N but could be possible with fine wire and some careful soldering.
Here's a picture of a 3-track span just north of Peterborough that shows just how fine these structures are. Indeed, they are often to blame for the massive disruption when the wires come down, taking out 4 lines at once instead of just the one!
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/t31.0-8/12716349_10153432322501033_4402985478561918013_o.jpg)
An interesting shot this - thanks Adam.
Two things I would take from this....
1) The wires are visible
2) They look "white" rather than black or "coppery"
So I would recommend for the wires the white "jumper cuff" elastic - as I have used..... :angel: rather than black or verdigris EZLine.
I would have a crack at headspans if necessary.... Using 10 thou steel wire or similar - might not be too hard.
Cheers Jon :)
The wires are visible in 1:1 scale but in N?? Watching operators try to sort out derailed bogies under the wire sis painful for all concerned!
Remember the Emepror's New Clothes, miss out the wires, and simply tell people they are there but are VERY fine!!
Kato supply the proper supports, but no wires for their Catenary - worth thinking about the principle?
Nick R
Have you thought about using H section plastic rod and fine fishing line to make the headspans? Then glue the Catenary support arms to the fishing line..
Cheers
Mark
Thanks for the input everyone.
This is picture showing the catenary we want to represent rather than slavishly model. But obviously the nearer we can get, the better it will be.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/8/thumb_35584.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=35584)
Mark, I was thinking using H section would probably be the way to go along with the register arms etc from nbrasslocos.
Thanks
Kirky
As others have said it is Mk3. Probably Mk3B by the time you get to Northallerton. Apart from the contact wire everything is aluminium or galvanised so a pale grey colour is fine.
Headspans are going to be very difficult to model. They are hard to set up in the real world. I.would recommend a site visit with camera and a telephoto lens so you can study the equipment in detail. Note how on tangent track the registration arms pull in opposite directions from one headspan to the next. The.LDVs (poles in the headspan) do so too. On a curve registration arms generally pull to the outside of the curve. Note how wires go from in to out of running at junctions and crossovers as well as where tension lengths end.
It's terribly complicated and if you can get it right you could probably earn a good living designing the real thing!
:)
Quote from: FourWheelCoach on February 20, 2016, 05:44:30 AM
As others have said it is Mk3. Probably Mk3B by the time you get to Northallerton. Apart from the contact wire everything is aluminium or galvanised so a pale grey colour is fine.
Headspans are going to be very difficult to model. They are hard to set up in the real world. I.would recommend a site visit with camera and a telephoto lens so you can study the equipment in detail. Note how on tangent track the registration arms pull in opposite directions from one headspan to the next. The.LDVs (poles in the headspan) do so too. On a curve registration arms generally pull to the outside of the curve. Note how wires go from in to out of running at junctions and crossovers as well as where tension lengths end.
It's terribly complicated and if you can get it right you could probably earn a good living designing the real thing!
:)
Hi
Thanks for that.
Yes we've done several site visits.
I don't thnk we will be aiming for anything like your excellent description. We Stepney expecting the whole model to be representative. Essentially, 'if it looks right it is right ' is our motto. And I think this doubly applies to the catenary.
I can't seeis putting in the wires, it would be just too difficult to get to the stock.
But many thanks for the pointers.
Kirky.