As my period of interest sinks further into the depths of time I have started to take an interest in teh 19thC Single locomotives, i.e. those with a single driving axle. The Dean Singles used by the GWR and the famous Caledonian No.123 are perhaps the best known. There were many more though.
Have any ever been made in N?
Most N steam locos are Post-Grouping, in fact a list of Pre-Grouping designs in general would be quite useful. Most would be ones that had survived into post-1923 service I suspect. A Midland Fowler or two....?
Coming back to the Singles, here are a couple of examples:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/GWR_Dean_single_4-2-2_3050_Royal_Sovereign_%28Howden%2C_Boys%27_Book_of_Locomotives%2C_1907%29.jpg)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/London_and_North_Western_Railway_2-2-2_locomotive_Colombine._London_Science_Museum.jpg)
Good list of locos here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rolling_stock_items_in_the_UK_National_Collection#Standard_gauge_designs_1870_to_1899
So, anybody ever seen an N gauge Single?
Quote from: FourWheelCoach on January 24, 2016, 05:16:09 PM
Have any ever been made in N?
Yes. Minitrix made a version of the 2-2-2 'Der Adler' some years ago. The motor was in a carriage, so the locomotive itself was commendably elegant and petite!
Cheers, NeMo
Here's mine (again!)
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucAxCSgujew#)
Cheers Jon :)
Quote from: PostModN66 on January 24, 2016, 05:49:28 PM
Here's mine (again!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucAxCSgujew# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucAxCSgujew#)
Cheers Jon :)
Very nice indeed!
Here's my LBSCR Single. Union Mills tender drive.
http://youtu.be/rMq0F5oMazo (http://youtu.be/rMq0F5oMazo)
Gareth
And here's a photo of it:
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/8/thumb_34767.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=34767)
Gareth
FourWheel, if you're a member of the N Gauge Society then you can join the Era 1 & 2 Group. They have a list of just about all pre-Grouping locos that have been produced, plus the same for kit locos. There's also a 'gazette' which covers hints and tips, member articles, many photos, and the latest news.
Quote from: thebrighton on January 24, 2016, 09:14:28 PM
And here's a photo of it:
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/8/thumb_34767.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=34767)
Gareth
That really is rather good! What was your method of construction?
Quote from: Pete33 on January 25, 2016, 01:35:26 PM
FourWheel, if you're a member of the N Gauge Society then you can join the Era 1 & 2 Group. They have a list of just about all pre-Grouping locos that have been produced, plus the same for kit locos. There's also a 'gazette' which covers hints and tips, member articles, many photos, and the latest news.
I'll look into that, thanks!
I have a Highfield Models Spinner which was a Peter Middleton commission comprising a white metal body on an Arnold chassis. It is rather crude by present day standards but a new kit is promised by Two MM Locomotives:
http://www.twommlocomotives.co.uk/TwommLocomotives/Midland_Railway_Locomotive_Kits.html (http://www.twommlocomotives.co.uk/TwommLocomotives/Midland_Railway_Locomotive_Kits.html)
Our continental friends have two lovely pioneer locos to drool over:
the Minitrix 12709 'Esslingen'
the Arnold-Railex 0249 'Poelnitz'
The del Prado Spinner looks lovely in a siding and will only cost around a tenner on eBay!
Quote from: FourWheelCoach on January 25, 2016, 01:45:27 PM
That really is rather good! What was your method of construction?
Hi,
It was scratch built from brass sheet with modified boiler fittings from NBrass.
Gareth
Quote from: FourWheelCoach on January 25, 2016, 01:45:27 PM
Quote from: thebrighton on January 24, 2016, 09:14:28 PM
And here's a photo of it:
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/8/thumb_34767.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=34767)
Gareth
That really is rather good! What was your method of construction?
Understatement of the year! Gareth does some really amazing work. His Single is the physical embodiment of my envy. :P
Singles are uncommon rtr (I'm guessing they are not the easiest to get satisfactory traction and haulage out of without a tender drive, though why they aren't produced
with a tender drive motor is beyond me), but there are a number of pre-grouping locomotives available rtr. I'm a big pre-grouping fan as well, so I've looked into this a little bit. :D
The GWR 2301 Class aka Dean Goods 0-6-0 (1883-1899) is being produced by Union Mills presently, who also produce a number of other pre-grouping models (the LSWR Adams 395 Class built 1881-1886, springs to mind, as does the LNWR Prince of Wales class, which is available in LNWR blackberry black livery). There is a thread on here where I posted the latest pricing and availability list for UM, which you can browse and get an idea for (a large number are pregrouping goods locos in various Big Four and BR liveries).
Dapol produce the LBSCR A1(X) Terrier (1872-1880), in several liveries, including LBSCR and they produce the LSWR M7 (1897-1911), though at present it is only in BR and SR liveries (previous batches featured a very attractive LSWR livery but, fair warning, see the M7 threads for the poor performance of this model).
Farish make the N Class in SECR livery and the NER E1/LNER J72 is currently in the pipeline for production (1898-1951), though no NER livery announced :( The Fowler 4F (1924-1941) is essentially a MR design (the MR 3835 Class) but the only pregrouping livery available for it is to join the Bachmann Collectors Club and buy the "4F" in SDJR Prussian blue (the SDJR had five), which squeaks by as I think the 4Fs they acquired were actually in 1922 and thus were MR built 3835s, even if the LMS later classed them as 4Fs. :)
Not thinking of many others currently in production, but I know there are some. I will add more as I think of them.
Hope this is helpful!
Philip
Quote from: N-Gauge-US on January 30, 2016, 02:06:48 PM
Farish make the N Class in SECR livery and the NER E1/LNER J72 is currently in the pipeline for production (1898-1951), though no NER livery announced :( The Fowler 4F (1924-1941) is essentially a MR design (the MR 3835 Class) but the only pregrouping livery available for it is to join the Bachmann Collectors Club and buy the "4F" in SDJR Prussian blue (the SDJR had five), which squeaks by as I think the 4Fs they acquired were actually in 1922 and thus were MR built 3835s, even if the LMS later classed them as 4Fs. :)
Hi Philip
Here's a bit of info from the Illustrated History of LMS Locomotives that might help. The S&DJR 4Fs were superheated MR 4Fs (which were also by Fowler, with some batches produced by Armstrong Whitworth). The S&D's five were delivered in black livery. They never ran in S&DJR blue.
Have you thought about getting the Farish 'Landship Train' pack? That has an MR 4F in Midland lettering and black livery - No 3848 (built 1918).
Peter
Quote from: Pete33 on January 30, 2016, 02:23:13 PM
Quote from: N-Gauge-US on January 30, 2016, 02:06:48 PM
Farish make the N Class in SECR livery and the NER E1/LNER J72 is currently in the pipeline for production (1898-1951), though no NER livery announced :( The Fowler 4F (1924-1941) is essentially a MR design (the MR 3835 Class) but the only pregrouping livery available for it is to join the Bachmann Collectors Club and buy the "4F" in SDJR Prussian blue (the SDJR had five), which squeaks by as I think the 4Fs they acquired were actually in 1922 and thus were MR built 3835s, even if the LMS later classed them as 4Fs. :)
Hi Philip
Here's a bit of info from the Illustrated History of LMS Locomotives that might help. The S&DJR 4Fs were superheated MR 4Fs (which were also by Fowler, with some batches produced by Armstrong Whitworth). The S&D's five were delivered in black livery. They never ran in S&DJR blue.
Have you thought about getting the Farish 'Landship Train' pack? That has an MR 4F in Midland lettering and black livery - No 3848 (built 1918).
Peter
Thanks Peter :)
I did know about them only running in black livery, but that had slipped my mind and is certainly worth mentioning given the topic at hand! The MR 3835 class I mentioned above is just another designation for the MR 4Fs, I think. :) Does your book mention if delivery was in 1922 or 1924? I've seen both and one would make it pregrouping, the other not!
I had forgotten entirely about the Landship train pack! The MR livery certainly makes it appealing and it comes with those lovely tanks....
No problem, Philip.
Even Railway Modeller made the mistake of accepting the blue livery in their review, so it's surprising how many people don't know they were black. The book says delivery was 1922, but you can bet that a few probably didn't enter service until 1923 (or perhaps even 1924). The S&D five were delivered in 1922 though.
The Landship pack also comes with that lovely Deeley tender, and the loco could easily be re-lettered for LMS pre-1927 livery. The number doesn't need to be changed at all.
Last NGS journal had a conversion of an old Matchbox toy Dean single using a tender drive.
I had a couple of Triang Dean singles "back in the day" and they were useless at pulling anything more than 3 coaches unless they were on steel track where the "magnedesion" I think it was called came into effect.
Quote from: Pete33 on January 30, 2016, 03:00:48 PM
No problem, Philip.
Even Railway Modeller made the mistake of accepting the blue livery in their review, so it's surprising how many people don't know they were black. The book says delivery was 1922, but you can bet that a few probably didn't enter service until 1923 (or perhaps even 1924). The S&D five were delivered in 1922 though.
The Landship pack also comes with that lovely Deeley tender, and the loco could easily be re-lettered for LMS pre-1927 livery. The number doesn't need to be changed at all.
I would guess RM used Farish's press info on it, which doesn't acknowledge the livery goof, obviously. I really ought to have remembered as there was discussion of this on the Collectors Club thread.
I think part of the confusion comes from the fact that there are precious few pictures of them which you can identify as SDJR and partially because they were technically eligible for the SDJR Prussian blue livery, but never actually wore it, it seems.
And I could never imagine taking a perfectly good pre-grouping livery and spoiling it! :P I suppose some are that crazy, but I'm not. ;)
Speaking of train sets and of the S&DJR, the Countryside Coal set comes with a SDJR Jinty, but it is technically a post-grouping loco as well as the S&DJR Jinty's were produced in 1929 (SDJR Nos. 19-25). The 3F is remarkably similar to the MR 2441 Class though, which they are a development of, and converting an LMS one to MR livery may prove easy enough :)
Quote from: N-Gauge-US on January 30, 2016, 05:52:57 PM
I think part of the confusion comes from the fact that there are precious few pictures of them which you can identify as SDJR and partially because they were technically eligible for the SDJR Prussian blue livery, but never actually wore it, it seems.
Cost cutting. The more things change...
Quote from: N-Gauge-US on January 30, 2016, 05:52:57 PM
Speaking of train sets and of the S&DJR, the Countryside Coal set comes with a SDJR Jinty, but it is technically a post-grouping loco as well as the S&DJR Jinties were produced in 1929 (SDJR Nos. 19-25)...
Perfectly okay for my 1929/30 layout, but getting my hands on one is another thing entirely.
Quote from: Pete33 on January 30, 2016, 06:20:24 PM
Quote from: N-Gauge-US on January 30, 2016, 05:52:57 PM
I think part of the confusion comes from the fact that there are precious few pictures of them which you can identify as SDJR and partially because they were technically eligible for the SDJR Prussian blue livery, but never actually wore it, it seems.
Cost cutting. The more things change...
Quote from: N-Gauge-US on January 30, 2016, 05:52:57 PM
Speaking of train sets and of the S&DJR, the Countryside Coal set comes with a SDJR Jinty, but it is technically a post-grouping loco as well as the S&DJR Jinties were produced in 1929 (SDJR Nos. 19-25)...
Perfectly okay for my 1929/30 layout, but getting my hands on one is another thing entirely.
And I assumed that they simply left it in black because it did more goods than passenger work, mixed designation or not. You are probably more on the money (excuse the pun) with the cost saving measures though, as I remember reading that at the turn of the century the LBSCR was famous for having immaculate paint jobs and livery work, implying that the cost of such maintenance was probably higher than was justifiable for S&DJR locomotives relegated primarily to goods duties.
And agreed, I'm not eager to buy the EZ Command just to have the pretty SDJR Jinty (no matter how much I want it!), so acquiring one is thorny.
Quote from: N-Gauge-US on January 30, 2016, 06:45:26 PM
And I assumed that they simply left it in black because it did more goods than passenger work, mixed designation or not. You are probably more on the money (excuse the pun) with the cost saving measures though, as I remember reading that at the turn of the century the LBSCR was famous for having immaculate paint jobs and livery work, implying that the cost of such maintenance was probably higher than was justifiable for S&DJR locomotives relegated primarily to goods duties.
Actually I think it was more the post-Great War shortage of manpower and the Great Recession. Income from goods traffic was hit pretty badly during the late 1920s/early 1930s, and the railways needed to make savings. The S&DJR was an easy target because it was joint owned by two big companies. The 4Fs were pretty much maids-of-all-work, everything from piloting duties to goods runs. But if you're modelling the S&DJR at this time, you need many, many 2Ps and 4Fs!
Quote from: Pete33 on January 30, 2016, 08:55:42 PM
Quote from: N-Gauge-US on January 30, 2016, 06:45:26 PM
And I assumed that they simply left it in black because it did more goods than passenger work, mixed designation or not. You are probably more on the money (excuse the pun) with the cost saving measures though, as I remember reading that at the turn of the century the LBSCR was famous for having immaculate paint jobs and livery work, implying that the cost of such maintenance was probably higher than was justifiable for S&DJR locomotives relegated primarily to goods duties.
Actually I think it was more the post-Great War shortage of manpower and the Great Recession. Income from goods traffic was hit pretty badly during the late 1920s/early 1930s, and the railways needed to make savings. The S&DJR was an easy target because it was joint owned by two big companies. The 4Fs were pretty much maids-of-all-work, everything from piloting duties to goods runs. But if you're modelling the S&DJR at this time, you need many, many 2Ps and 4Fs!
I thought the S&DJR had only 5 4Fs/Class 3835s and only 3 2Ps. Is that just in the pre-LMS era? (I'm really sorry if we are hijacking your thread in a way that doesn't interest you, @FourWheelCoach (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=5104) . If so, please tell us to stop and we will do the obvious and start a new thread :) )
Now that I am at home, I have my UM price list in front of me. I went through it when I got it and marked the dates of production and original companies of each currently available model. Please note that the following locos are almost all only available presently in Grouping and BR liveries.
In the following list, the UM name of the model (usually the Groupig company designation) comes first, then the original company and its designation, then the production dates:
J11/GCR 9J 0-6-0 (1901-1910)
J25/NER P1 0-6-0 (1898-1902)
J26/NER P2 0-6-0 (1904-1905)
J27/NER P3 0-6-0 (1906-1909;1921-1922)
(J38 LNER 0-6-0 1926)
(J39 LNER 0-6-0 1926)
B12/GER 569 4-6-0 (1911-1928)
D20/NER D20 4-4-0 (1899-1907)
Q2/GNR K1 0-8-0 (1901-1909)
2P/MR 483 4-4-0 (1882-1901; SDJR 1914-1921)
(7F LMS 0-8-0 1929-1932)
2F and 3F/MR Johnson 0-6-0 (1875-1908)
Cauliflower/LNWR 2F Cauliflower 0-6-0 (1900???)
T9/LSWR T9 4-4-0 (1899-1901)
700/LSWR 700 0-6-0 (1897?)
Adams 0395/LSWR 395 0-6-0 (1881-1886)
Prince of Wales/LNWR Prince of Wales 4-6-0 (1911-1921;1924)
D11/GCR 11F 4-4-0 (1919-1924)
D16/3 "Super Claud"/GER 546 & D56 (1900-1923)
Some of these are later rebuilds of the classes listed and some were simply renamed for easy of sorting after grouping.
I am SURE I have made some errors/oversights above, so someone please point them out!
Union Mills also make a dean goods but it may not be available at the moment
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/16/thumb_29938.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=29938)
Regards,
Alex
Quote from: Hailstone on January 30, 2016, 10:58:40 PM
Union Mills also make a dean goods but it may not be available at the moment
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/16/thumb_29938.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=29938)
Regards,
Alex
It is sold out presently but a new run will be released in late February or early March in 3 GWR liveries and in BR black :)
Quote from: N-Gauge-US on January 30, 2016, 09:34:59 PM
I thought the S&DJR had only 5 4Fs/Class 3835s and only 3 2Ps. Is that just in the pre-LMS era? (I'm really sorry if we are hijacking your thread in a way that doesn't interest you, @FourWheelCoach (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=5104) . If so, please tell us to stop and we will do the obvious and start a new thread :) )
Well, there were also Scotties (Class G 0-6-0s), 483s (pre-Grouping 2Ps), and Bulldogs (Class H 0-6-0s), but I'm modelling 1930, so I have the LMS in charge of motive power alongside S&D locos that haven't yet been renumbered or repainted (or withdrawn). Complete (hopefully) list of S&D locos here: http://www.ngauge.historyfiles.co.uk/FeaturesS&D/locomotives.htm (http://www.ngauge.historyfiles.co.uk/FeaturesS&D/locomotives.htm)