how many of you run there layouts to a time table?? or do you just run whatever suits your mood.i have never run to a timetable but fancy having a bash at it so how do you go about compiling one ???
Hi,
Nope, don't run to a timetable. When I go out to the shed I just power up the controllers and run whatever trains are on the track. I'll stop and change over to other ones now and again simply to give them a run around the track and to keep them in running order.
Alex
Quote from: gwrwill on December 18, 2011, 11:53:15 AM
how many of you run there layouts to a time table?? or do you just run whatever suits your mood.i have never run to a timetable but fancy having a bash at it so how do you go about compiling one ???
like you, i would like to, but dont know where to start
Although I model Continental and USA practice, I operate to a British Rail timetable, which means they run anytime they feel like it. ;)
Depends on the layout
If you ran it realistically, on a smaller layout you could end up with long spells of nothing happening
Equally, on a large layout you could end up with overload (for example dealing with a technical issue)
As a result I operate a turn based timetable
This allows three or four trains to operate within each turn
Quote from: poliss on December 18, 2011, 01:54:04 PM
Although I model Continental and USA practice, I operate to a British Rail timetable, which means they run anytime they feel like it. ;)
Does that include leaves on the line etc. ;D
Won't be having a timetable for Lyne End when built but may do a card based system for shunting freight movements.
For the old layout I ran the actual timetable (although not to a clock) for the line from the relevant time. It was a non existant location so I simply split the difference between the two stations it was notionally between. For the 1976 timetable the freight was rather more 'ad hoc' as I couldn't find any good documentation of the evening freight activity at the time.
Snow Hill is going to need a rather more designed timetable given it features things like HS2 and lines that someone closed 8)
I remember going to the Dundee show one year and there was a group running a single line layout to a timetable, every 20 minutes or so a DMU would go by - Absolutely horrendous and a complete waste of time.
If you want to run a timetable, please make sure you compress it somewhat or you will get awfully bored
I'm planning to have a timetable for my own layout, but not basing it on the prototype for some of the reasons already mentioned. My terminus is fictional and only very generally located (somewhere in the eastern counties) so I'm going for a fictional network to go with it. I've been working out what trains would be required for passenger services that feel right, and a bit of appropriate freight.
Planning this, and so working out the stock required and how it needs to move is quite good fun - but I'm far away from having something to work with yet.
i like the sound of the card system will need to look into that :thumbsup:
At the current time i don't run Sheaf to a timetable, but myself and JC92 have had several goes at coming up with an operating sequence. Eventually we'll decide on one and we'll run to it where we plan to use bell codes between station and fiddle yard when operating
Ollie
Quote from: gwrwill on December 18, 2011, 09:42:58 PM
i like the sound of the card system will need to look into that :thumbsup:
A variant of the card system for shunting is the scrabble system - wagons are assigned scrabble letters based upon their common-ness, the fiddle yard supplies incoming trains of random letters, the yard operator sends back words.
It's a way to keep sane on exhibition layouts shunting for hours on end !
Quote from: EtchedPixels on December 18, 2011, 10:52:54 PM
Quote from: gwrwill on December 18, 2011, 09:42:58 PM
i like the sound of the card system will need to look into that :thumbsup:
A variant of the card system for shunting is the scrabble system - wagons are assigned scrabble letters based upon their common-ness, the fiddle yard supplies incoming trains of random letters, the yard operator sends back words.
It's a way to keep sane on exhibition layouts shunting for hours on end !
;D ;D ;D hope they keep it clean
I like the sequences I've seen - give some extra interest at exhibitions. An example from Warley below:
(http://images3a.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp73466%3Enu%3D%3C672%3E4%3C2%3E243%3EWSNRCG%3D35%3C389%3B9%3C8334nu0mrj)
Weydon Road had 53 moves in the sequence and shows where the station sits in a network (hope you can zoom on pic to see the small print!). It seems a good way of having a 'timetable' without the issues of keeping to time.
Really like the card idea, and the scrabble variant sounds like it would be interesting.
I could never be bothered. Just run what ever I fancied ::)
Cudders
for my two pennyworth, I am planning on running a timetable on Inverknockie, it just seems to give a purpose to the trains, but it really is down to individual choice.
that is the best timetable i have ever seen
iv'e used timetables on mine and friends layouts and both end to end and continuous run layouts .
if not doing a prototypical location look at what you want to run for example
fast express passengers
semi fasts passengers
local train freight
fast freight
etc etc
then work how many fast trains to local services and the add freights in afterwards
with the freights i have used the card system which works very well
with prototypical location its much easier to find out timetables and even the freight movements up and down lines and also what wagons were used
kind regards daz
Hi Will
For a modular meeting I compiled a rather busy working timetable and produced a lot of paper with train graph, workbook for each station (containing all the scheduled moves) and a workbook for each train (containing all the stops and shunts for the specific train). We had fast and stopping passenger trains and trough and stopping freight trains, too.
I think, a timetable for a home layout is sensible and it gives you a new insight into logistics. It can became a tricky puzzle to achive what you want, thou. Sorry this has become a lenghty post, but you asked how I did it.
There a two different levels of planning that I considered. As a note, we had a fast clock of 1:5. With this, 1 minute real time was 5 minutes model time or 12 minutes real time were a full hour model time.
a) Top level of my planning was freight and passenger movements, i.e what is going from where to which location. This does not include any timings just amount, source and destination. At your station many local industries and merchandisers are receiving goods and sending out other goods. Think about which goods and how many are loaded and unloaded at your sidings. Also think about which siding can load which goods. The capacity, i.e. length of the sidings should be considered too as well as which movements are needed to shunt wagons to the loading spots, store wagons and so on. Difficult shunting on the main line reduces the number of trains that can run or aproach your station. If you have designed your station for complicated shunting you probably will have fewer trains than with a "boring" yard that is simple and quickly to shunt.
b) Then I pathed the trains. I approched this by running trains at a sensible speed over a lenght of track and measered the time. From this I could calculate all running times in all section just by knowing the length of the section. For a scheduled stopp I added 2 minutes for braking and for a starting train a further minute for acceleration. The shunting movements at your location must also be timed too. How long does a loco need to run round a train, how long are running lines blocked by wagons standing around or the loco sawing back and forth to spot a wagon at an arkward location. By doing this, I learned that, with a fast clock you can compress time for running trains with great effect, but shunting is always done in real time. You always need to uncouple, you need to set points, the loco is reversed several times. As an example for running round you have to uncouple, loco changes direction two times, loco passes whole train and points have to be set at least three times. When I had an idea of the times needed, I started to draw the fast trains into a train graph. Then adding the slower trains. I wrote a small Java app doing this for me because many adjustments had to be made in this process. From the train graph I then inherited the station sequence plans.
I needed several iterations between a) and b) to compile a timetable that was dense, interesting and served all stations and industries.
Currently I don't have access to the plans to post them. (I forgot the power plug for my laptop and the accu is down). But I would try to source and post them to give you an idea, if you are interested.
Cheers
Mac
Quote from: MacRat on December 20, 2011, 10:40:54 AM
There a two different levels of planning that I considered. As a note, we had a fast clock of 1:5. With this, 1 minute real time was 5 minutes model time or 12 minutes real time were a full hour model time
A faster clock isn't really appropriate, as your trains would then need to operate at higher speeds!
I can understand why you would apply it, as this can remove the many periods where little or nothing happens
Hence why movement based, card, etc work the best
Equally, if you have to leave the layout you can pickup where you left off
Mine also include times, which are quite generic over a 24 hour period
The overnight period is mainly freight, light locos, departmental, and passenger trains to/from depot
The final issue is dealing with natural delays or even worse an early running train
I use a notepad for this and this can be a challenge as the card system can not easily accomodate this
When you are running any trains you like then there is relatively no challenge in order to resolve the problem
Quote from: mjkerr on December 20, 2011, 11:02:04 AM
A faster clock isn't really appropriate, as your trains would then need to operate at higher speeds!
Only if you insist on modelling time accurately - in which case you might want to correct gravity on your layout too.
Lots of layouts run on a fast clock system. It means the operators need to be paying attention and keeping things moving, plus doing some proper juggling of trains to deal with delays and mishaps.
Time can be quite elastic if you want - and indeed quite a few of the variable clock systems support truly variable clocks. Running to cards is just a variable clock system without the urgency and need for co-ordination.
Alan
Never bothered myself.
Most of my layouts have been ones I exhibit and I found that if trains keep moving, the public keep watching.
Noticed this on other layouts too.
I run a sort of sequence, freight, passenger, passenger, freight, another passenger then repeat with the odd light engine/mixed train thrown in.
Mind you, my last layout was a simple shunting affair!
Its the first few photos here:
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=582.0 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=582.0)
So goods only! :smiley-laughing:
Hi, a friend send me the files of the WTT I did.
We did run to timetable but for frreight we use car cards and waybills, too. What's in the freight trains varies as industries are responsible to "order" goods and empty wagons.
- First picture is the layout with track length and purpose of the sidings
- Second picture is the train graph. Conventionally the Germans draw them from top down, so did I. Each block is a seperate branch.
- Third picture is an example for a through freight train from the main to the branch. See the layout to find where it runs.
Sorry, as I see flickr shrunk the images. But I hope they give an idea.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7165/6545391925_05f8a052c5_b.jpg)
Great-britN Arrangement2a (http://www.flickr.com/photos/38950750@N07/6545391925/#) von MacRat2009 (http://www.flickr.com/people/38950750@N07/) auf Flickr
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7148/6545411019_66ef394c4d_b.jpg)
Great-britN Lohr 2011 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/38950750@N07/6545411019/#) von MacRat2009 (http://www.flickr.com/people/38950750@N07/) auf Flickr
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7019/6545400281_960bcd34c8_b.jpg)
2011-06_Great-britN_Lohr_WorkingTimeTable_v1.1_4N43 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/38950750@N07/6545400281/#) von MacRat2009 (http://www.flickr.com/people/38950750@N07/) auf Flickr
thanks macrat much appreciated :thumbsup:
For Grasmere, Morfa Nevyn and Abersoch I never got round to timetables.
however for Portpatrick Town, when out at exhibitions I did produce a sequence after its first 2 showings. It is actually based on the Passenger and Mail Summer TT for Stranraer - I had access to these in a number of books which gave partial information cvering 1920s to closure of the Port Road. . And I have put a couple fo daily freight workings in as well. Probably not enough but I lack the information. It is then run as a sequence, with the movements following directly on from each other. This does seem to give a purpose at shows , especially as I now have index cards on display to the public outlining the moves.
We find the daily sequence takes 40 to 60 mins depending on how energetic we feel!
When I have sufficient stock I would like to run a timetable:
Morning Mail and Milk Trains, Up rush hour commuters, Ocean Liner Expresses (etc - and later in the day the reverse) ...
But I'm way off being in a position to do so, and don't know much about the correct way of planning it ...
MacRat:
I'm very interested in your diagrammes, and years ago saw similar plus an explanation on how to draw them up (but don't know where that was now) - do you have any pointers to where I could read-up and learn to design my own timetables?
Like I say, it's some time off before I do it, but I'd quite like to start researching :)
Im hopeing to add a reverse loop to my layout so that I can run a departures timetable then when a train returns I will have to deal with the arrival as well so some carful planning will be required!
Matthias did a great job with the timetable for our Great-britN meeting last July.
It was enjoyable to drive the trains according to his timetable.
Markus