Hi All,
I am new here and completely new to model railways, at 56 years of age this will be my first ever "train set"... I know it's a bit sad really but it has made my Christmas receiving one. Oh and Merry Christmas to one and all :-)
I am wanting to build my first model railway in N gauge, the space I have available for the base board is 6' x 2' and was going to make a start on it over the Christmas holidays, but I thought it may be prudent to check that this size is going to be sufficient before I make a start.
I say 6' x 2' is available but by this I mean this is the ideal size that is available to me, but at a push this could be increased to 6'6" x 2'6" but I would be sacrificing my workshop space a fair bit by doing this.
So I guess the question I wish to ask is; Can anyone see a reason why I would really regret not using the extra 6" in both depth and width before I commit. I have looked into track radii albeit with a complete novice hat on, and think I would be able to run a 3rd radius continuous loop but not a 4th radius loop in the 2'... a 4th radius loop requiring 2'6".
I could be completely wrong about this, as i say I am a complete numpty on the subject, or someone maybe able to see some other glaring obvious (but not to me) reason to make the baseboard a particular depth.
Thank you in advance for suffering my first post, Senza (Essex UK)
Welcome aboard Senza and Merry Christmas.
I'd say a train set is a great Christmas gift. Which set did you receive?
6ft is a good width for N Gauge but if you can allow yourself the extra 6 inches on width Id say you would find it a great help. 3ft would, in my opinion , be even better.
Hope to see some pictures in due course. We are a nosey lot on here!
Hi Senza, welcome to the forum and Merry Christmas. Like you. I am new to this n gauge stuff, having started my first layout earlier this year and I am older than you :), (does that make me 'numptier'?). Obviously, the bigger you can go, the better. I am combining my layout into a coffee table and that is 4' x 2', so 6' x 2' is a decent size. Having said that, I am already looking at a site in the spare bedroom which would be in the region of 12' x 4' - this hobby can get addictive :hmmm: ;D. Incidentlly, there is a huge wealth of knowledge available from the members, so any questions, ask away, somebody will be able to assist. Good luck with it all. David.
Look up "door layouts" on this forum - and Google.
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=30955.msg352565#msg352565 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=30955.msg352565#msg352565)
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=2628.msg27777#msg27777 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=2628.msg27777#msg27777)
It will give you a lot of ideas ( 2' width is OK for trams and ? Set-track but limits you to small w/b locos.
You are restricted to Radius 1 & 2 curves unless you add an inch or 2
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=30059 (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=30059)
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/28034-minimum-radius-in-n/ (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/28034-minimum-radius-in-n/)
Why not have a play with one of the free track planners ( search forum) to see what is possible?
Hi Senza, and welcome to the forum :wave:
Glad to see you are taking the plunge into N gauge and I would really recommend the extra 6" on both if you can do it. If not both, I would concentrate on the width as the larger the radius curves the better it will look and the better some of the larger locos will run on it.
If you are a complete novice I would also recommend you start out with Kato Unitrack as it is 'plug & play' and motors are built into the points. It can look a bit naff with the high ballast shoulder but can very easily be disguised.
This forum can save you lots of money/grief so I would take the opportunity to ask the guys and gals on here before you spend your hard earned cash.
G'day from Australia, Senza of Essex, UK, Merry Christmas, and welcome to the NGF! :thumbsup:
NewportNobby's advice about Kato track is probably sound for someone just starting out. The other main player is Peco, who have a great range of reasonably realistic looking trackwork (espcially in code 55, but the points have what are known as live frogs and this can be daunting for a beginner).
However, it's great that you're getting into model railways.
Once again, welcome to the NGF! :beers:
Thank you all for your welcomes, tips and your valuable input.
In light of this I get the impression that should I get engrossed in this hobby I will be wanting all the space I can get, so I shall have a little rethink and maybe a re-giggle to see if there is any many space to be had, I will keep you updated as to what I end up with.
Port Perran; the set I received was the Graham Farish Cornish Riviera.
Thanks again, Senza
Quote from: Senza on December 26, 2015, 10:55:06 AM
In light of this I get the impression that should I get engrossed in this hobby I will be wanting all the space I can get,
I am afraid you have hit the nail on the head I don't think I have ever meet a railway modeller who claims to not want more room. :thumbsup:
Above all else, maximising baseboard size gives potential for a little 'disaster' room for those moments of sleeve dangling chaos that can send our train on the fast track to the floor.
Welcome to the friendly forum Senza, great to have you on board, you've certainly come to the right place as you will get all the help you'll need on here from a very knowledgeable bunch of guys and girls.
:welcomesign:
Welcome aboard.
The more space you can allow for the baseboard, the better, but width tends to be the most critical. Every extra inch you can squeeze in here can let you ease a curve, add an extra siding, add some low-relief buildings or other scenery, provide a safety zone to stop trains falling off the front of the layout, etc. Whatever you decide to go for, you'll almost certainly end up wishing for more.
Welcome aboard Senza, Great set you got.. Merry Christmas mate..
I echo the call for a little extra depth... oh... and width... Longer trains see!
Any questions just shout out... the only stupid question is the one not asked..
:NGaugersRule:
Cheers
Mark
It all depends on what sort of railway you want. I have built a complete branch line in 44" by 27" which keeps me very occupied when operating it but it can't run big locos or long trains. A double track oval would allow main line trains but less operating interest. I would go for the maximum depth you can.
First thing though - do you want to run trains round and round or have more operation interest or do more shunting? Some folks find trains going round and round great and others find it boring, likewise with shunting layouts; its all down to individuals. Working out what you want to do is key to designing a layout and then working out how much space you need. I recommend having a look at layouts in the model press or going to a few exhibitions before starting building a layout.
Agreed. :thumbsup:
Senza welcome to the :ngauge: Forum
All the info previously advised is sound, you should also consider the height of the baseboard, how you wish to operate the layout positioning wise, and in relation to the maximum depth of the baseboard, how long your reach is in the event of a derailment at the back of the layout if access is only from the front.
Good luck and keep posting.
:beers:
Mick
Hi Senza, welcome.
I think Chris m makes a vital point...
Quote from: Chris m on December 27, 2015, 07:34:02 AM
It all depends on what sort of railway you want. I have built a complete branch line in 44" by 27" which keeps me very occupied when operating it but it can't run big locos or long trains. A double track oval would allow main line trains but less operating interest. I would go for the maximum depth you can.
First thing though - do you want to run trains round and round or have more operation interest or do more shunting? Some folks find trains going round and round great and others find it boring, likewise with shunting layouts; its all down to individuals. Working out what you want to do is key to designing a layout and then working out how much space you need. I recommend having a look at layouts in the model press or going to a few exhibitions before starting building a layout.
For me, it is the building and modeling and watching the trains drive themselves round a computer controlled roundy-roundy layout.
For others, driving the train yourself with a hand control is desirable. And many like to shunt wagons.
I think it is important just to picture the possible ways of running trains and then aim for that kind of track plan... Roundy-roundy, end-to-end with big terminus station or little branch line, or loco depot or marshalling yard.
It sounds like you are planning a roundy-roundy (or tail-chaser), and you can be in charge of the loco stopping at the station at the controls with DC (analogue) or DCC (digital). You can then have sidings in the middle for shunting too. Is that what you have in mind? If so, the extra 6" each way would be advisable.
I think 2' is tight if you are going for the oval for continuous running, and the extra 6" depth would be important to maximize the curve radius.
But if you go for an end-to-end the 2' deep could be plenty, even for a decent-sized terminus, but you might prefer to add 6" to the length in that case.
But in the end, it's important to balance that with the workshop space if you will then feel cramped... My layout leaves me no room in my den to put up my easel and paint!
Is there a way you could hinge the layout and store it upright when you want that space... It seems like 2'6" would be relatively easy to push into the vertical against the wall if hinged on the long side? Just a thought.
Hi again all,
I did have in mind a double oval a shunting area in the middle,but for now will just get to grips with using the set and adding some track, just get a general idea of things before committing to a permanent layout.
As others have suggested; I will do a bit of research and no doubt ask lots of questions (sorry :-[) before getting overly involved with a fixed layout.
I did however have a rethink about available space today and managed to build and fit the baseboard in my shed, I have ended up with a board size of 77" x 32", hopefully it will be enough for my initial ideas, I guess beggars can't be choosers so have just gone with the maximum space I have available at this time and fingers crossed it will be enough.
Thanks for your help everyone, Senza
77" x 32" is no bad size, actually.
Please don't be tempted to fill it with track though. I'd suggest using it to practice scenic techniques, soldering etc so that you can hone your skills and end up with a proper 'trains running through the landscape' layout.
I have had to make it hinged to give me workshop space when needed, I have used slip pin hinges so that I can remove the base board should I need to do extended work underneath.
It was important to be able to retain my leather chair as it is where I sit and dink my beer in peace :D
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d153/Wingmut/Base%20Board_zpswkja9gps.jpg) (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/Wingmut/media/Base%20Board_zpswkja9gps.jpg.html)
Senza
Looks good.
I particularly like the idea of the leather chair :beers:
How well organised are you!? :goggleeyes:
I have 'stuff' strewn all over the place :-[
Yes far too organised I am, it can be a real pain at times :D
You mentioned in an earlier post about Kato Unitrak, would you (or anyone else) be able to recommend a track pack that that would go well with my Graham Farish Cornish Riviera DCC Trainset, or would it be best to buy individual pieces of track as required?
As I say; complete novice here, so just trying to learn the different aspects with no particular layout in mind apart from an inkling that I would like a double oval with some shunting area in the middle and maybe a siding on the front edge... oh and 1960's spring to mind as I get all nostalgic over ITV's Heartbeat.
There I think that last sentence should prove beyond doubt my total ignorance of all things of the rail nature :( :(
Senza
As you have the GF set then personally, I'd avoid the Kato track and go for Peco.
1060s is a great period to model (plenty of us on here have chosen that period) as it allows you to run both steam and diesel locmotives.
Quote from: port perran on December 28, 2015, 05:17:54 PM
As you have the GF set then personally, I'd avoid the Kato track and go for Peco.
1060s is a great period to model (plenty of us on here have chosen that period) as it allows you to run both steam and diesel locmotives.
......and you can have a little cameo of the Norman conquests! :confused1:
Cheers Jon :)
:laughabovepost: Oh yeah! :laughabovepost:
Osbornes and TrainTrax both sell Kato starter packs - you could start with a loop of track and a couple of points and. Some straights for sidings.
Osbornes sell Dapol / Kato sets, so you do not need to use Peco.
Ring them up and have a chat re suggested packs ( 195x81 cm baseboard)
Here are some sample plans
http://www.katousa.com/track-plans/n-plans.html (http://www.katousa.com/track-plans/n-plans.html)
http://www.osbornsmodels.com/kato-unitrack-572-c.asp
http://www.traintrax.co.uk/unitrack-gauge-unitrack-track-sets-c-28_1.html (http://www.traintrax.co.uk/unitrack-gauge-unitrack-track-sets-c-28_1.html)
Suitable track packs would be ( no PSU included as you are DCC)
V3 yard switching set ( inc 3 points)
V16 double track oval ( with banked curves)
(Add a straight and a crossover to link the ovals)
As mentioned previously, track planner s/w may help you ( they come with Peco / Kato track libraries)
http://www.nscale.net/forums/showthread.php?35383-What-track-planning-software-do-you-guys-use-Using-Kato (http://www.nscale.net/forums/showthread.php?35383-What-track-planning-software-do-you-guys-use-Using-Kato)
Great stuff!
Many thanks for all your help, I know it must be a tad annoying when a newbie like myself pops up asking questions that have been asked a zillion times before, but when you know as little as I do about the subject you haven't even got a clue what search terms to use to get started.
Cheers, Senza
Quote from: Senza on December 29, 2015, 08:28:33 AM
Great stuff!
Many thanks for all your help, I know it must be a tad annoying when a newbie like myself pops up asking questions that have been asked a zillion times before, but when you know as little as I do about the subject you haven't even got a clue what search terms to use to get started.
Cheers, Senza
Please don't think that way :no: We all started out as newbies and this forum is exactly the place to come for information so ask away. Let's face it - as newbies become more experienced they may find different ways to do things so everyone's knowledge grows.
Quote from: port perran on December 28, 2015, 08:55:02 AM
Looks good.
I particularly like the idea of the leather chair :beers:
The leather chair? I particularly like the idea of a workbench that neat! ;)
Cool! :thumbsup:
Quote from: Railwaygun on December 29, 2015, 03:08:09 AM
Suitable track packs would be ( no PSU included as you are DCC)
V3 yard switching set ( inc 3 points)
V16 double track oval ( with banked curves)
(Add a straight and a crossover to link the ovals)
May I just ask a couple of questions that have arisen from the above reply;
I don't quite understand the "(no PSU included as you are DCC)" could someone expand upon this a little for me? Quite right the set I have bought is DCC but does that mean I only need one PSU, which is included in my DCC kit?
Could someone give me an example of the Unitrack items I would need to link the two ovals, i.e. track, switches, motors etc.?
So much too learn :worried:
Still on the upside I have got a coat if primer/undercoat on that baseboard today :D
Cheers, Senza
Quote from: Senza on December 29, 2015, 02:27:15 PM
Quote from: Railwaygun on December 29, 2015, 03:08:09 AM
Suitable track packs would be ( no PSU included as you are DCC)
V3 yard switching set ( inc 3 points)
V16 double track oval ( with banked curves)
(Add a straight and a crossover to link the ovals)
May I just ask a couple of questions that have arisen from the above reply;
I don't quite understand the "(no PSU included as you are DCC)" could someone expand upon this a little for me? Quite right the set I have bought is DCC but does that mean I only need one PSU, which is included in my DCC kit?
Could someone give me an example of the Unitrack items I would need to link the two ovals, i.e. track, switches, motors etc.?
So much too learn :worried:
Still on the upside I have got a coat if primer/undercoat on that baseboard today :D
Cheers, Senza
DC sets have a DC controller. (ie the Kato sets with controller). these power the track and also provide a socket to connect the point switches to. this may useful as a backup as well ( your stock is I think going to be DC initially)
kato point switch
[smg id=33509 type=full align=center caption="jhgj"]
kato DC controller
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/10/thumb_33510.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=33510)
the DCC controller you select will have its own PSU, and provide the track power. the KAto point s will need the old DC supply, or can use the AC supply that the DCC PSU MAY provide ( and you can sell the KAto controller easily).
to connect the 2 ovals, you need straights
20-012 Double Track Straight 186 mm (2 pcs.)
[smg id=33507 type=full align=center caption="20 012[1]"]
this will extend the 2 loops, and you can insert a crossover point ( 4 points as one unit)
[smg id=33508 type=full align=center caption="20 210"]
All photos from Traintrax.co.uk
if you want DCC controlled points, come back to the forum then!
Many thanks for all the information, much appreciated.
I was just about to order a couple of Kato Unitrack V sets to go with my Graham Farish Cornish Riviera DCC set, but then thought "how will I power the points?"
There is obviously a huge gap in my understanding of using DCC with DC switches, points and accessories, and I have been searching away but can't quite get my head around it, if anyone can tell me in "numpty" terms what I need to order I would be very grateful... enthusiasm (impatience) is getting the better of me :confused1:
I think Railwaygun has explained this above but has not taken into account how thick I am :D I get the impression from the above that I have to have a Kato DC controller and the DCC Bachmann EZ Controller that is included in the DCC set, but am still confused as to where the DC power comes from.
Regards, Senza
the Kato PSU has 12v DC output for DC track, and 2 side connectors that the point switches attach to ( 16vAC). so you would use the Kato SU ( cheapest in a Track set) to power the points.
[smg id=33535 type=full align=center caption="PSU images"]
the DCC PSU will only power the DCC controller ( it has 1 plug on a cable, and no AC output.)
Alternatively you can use a 16v AC PSU and a Kato converter.
Kato 24-842 AC/DC Converter
Converts 16 Volt AC to 12 Volt DC.
You will need one of these units if you are Not using the Kato controller for Unitrack point switches.
[smg id=33536 type=full align=center caption="AC images"]
I think that you should:
1) join a local model railway club (http://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/ (http://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/))
2) visit some Train shows and talk to people with Kato based layouts - see what the bits look like and how they fit together
3) find a local Kato stockist
4) buy a simple Set - Track + PSU + 1 point and have a play!
5) find a local NGF member with Kato and pop round for a play! Ask here!
you need to see / feel and explanations are merely becoming more confusing.
Ah thanks for that, it has all become a lot clearer now... like a little light bulb coming on :-)
I shall certainly take your advice and seek out a local club in the new year, maybe visit some shows/exhibitions to get an idea of things.
Cheers, Senza