Hi everyone,
First post, learning on the job. Putting together a layout of the 1950's/60's era BR North East region.
What would be the track furniture of the period?
Beyond Signal boxes, Semaphore signals, telegraph poles... things like points rods, signal pulleys, concrete trunking, fuse boxes, ground frames, huts, mile markers, AWS ramps, ballast boxes. I can't find information of what was in use when.
Thank you in advance for the replies!
Murray
G'day from Australia, Murray, and welcome to the NGF! :thumbsup:
Just offhand, itseems to me that you've just about got them all covered!! All of those things were in use back then, with the possible exception of concrete trunking, though that was creeping in by the end of the sixties.
You also had gradient posts and water troughs, however my memory is not good enough to remember if there were any water troughs on the ECML actually in the North East area.
A warm welcome Murray! :hellosign: I'm afraid I don't have much to add, except that since you are going to have such a high level of detail, don't forget the grime! There would have been all kinds of filth between the steam and the early diesels. I see lots of ballast and trackside weathering in your future! I'll be keeping an eye on this as I'm always keen to see what little details people can think up. Welcome again to the forum! We would all love to know what you're thinking for your layout (theme, size, track plan, etc.) and those details will help our more knowledgable members come up with all the little touches you're looking for :)
Quote from: Murray on December 16, 2015, 12:55:50 AM
Hi everyone,
First post, learning on the job. Putting together a layout of the 1950's/60's era BR North East region.
What would be the track furniture of the period?
Beyond Signal boxes, Semaphore signals, telegraph poles... things like points rods, signal pulleys, concrete trunking, fuse boxes, ground frames, huts, mile markers, AWS ramps, ballast boxes. I can't find information of what was in use when.
Thank you in advance for the replies!
Murray
Quote from: Bealman on December 16, 2015, 03:58:37 AM
G'day from Australia, Murray, and welcome to the NGF! :thumbsup:
Just offhand, itseems to me that you've just about got them all covered!! All of those things were in use back then, with the possible exception of concrete trunking, though that was creeping in by the end of the sixties.
You also had gradient posts and water troughs, however my memory is not good enough to remember if there were any water troughs on the ECML actually in the North East area.
There were troughs just south of Doncaster, just north of Selby, and at Lucker, south of Berwick for three examples. Further North than that, I'm not too sure.
Hi Murray, and welcome to the forum :wave:
You seem to have most things covered, but a lot depends on where the setting is i.e. open main lines, goods depot, railway sheds etc.
Very often untidy heaps of sleepers were seen as well as lengths of rail, quite possibly due to sidings/branch lines being ripped up.
In the case of yards there would be many a wooden walkway across the tracks for loco crew/workers to access other areas.
In the 50s/60s many tracks in a yard would be smothered in ash and/or overgrown with weeds.
Just some more ideas.
Hello!
Thank you of all the input & ideas.
In regard to your request N-Gauge-US the layout is a 4ft x 2ft twin track tail chaser. Station one side & siding the other.
For the size of layout I feel water troughs would be out of proportion, although tempting. Sounds like weathering, grime and vegetation are going to help recreate the period just as well as having the relevant line side apparatus.
Posting this has given me the determination to search out 50's/60's photos of the North East. I've now seen just about all the items listen in one photo or another. I suppose its down to what I can get hold of and/or make.
Thank you for the rapid reply's & the thought you have all put in.
Exciting stuff! Are you planning on trying to show your layout? If not, it may be worth trying to go even a few inches wider so that you don't have to use 1st radius curves on your inside track if you don't want to. For example, I use Atlas track which has curves in 10", 11.25", 12.5", 13.75", etc. To fit a double track on a 2'x4' I would have to use 10" (first radius) on the interior and 11.25" (second radius) on the exterior curve. But if I have even two or three more inches (26" or 27" wide total) I can squeeze an 11.25" along the inside and a 12.5" along the outside, allowing larger rolling stock to run on either line!
I agree that a trough might be a bit large for the layout, but if you want it, go for it! At the end of the day, your layout exists for your enjoyment and so you should put the things on it that you want to have and that will please you. Don't worry too much about accuracy, as it can become a headache quickly. As you said in your first post, you are learning on the job - we all are! As the layout comes along you will find details you want to add in and realize things you had planned on having seem all wrong now, but that is part of the fun. Like a real railway, a model railway changes and grows slowly with hard work and patience.
Keep us up to speed on your project and feel free to ask any questions you have!!!
-Philip
Quote from: Murray on December 16, 2015, 03:13:51 PM
Hello!
Thank you of all the input & ideas.
In regard to your request N-Gauge-US the layout is a 4ft x 2ft twin track tail chaser. Station one side & siding the other.
For the size of layout I feel water troughs would be out of proportion, although tempting. Sounds like weathering, grime and vegetation are going to help recreate the period just as well as having the relevant line side apparatus.
Posting this has given me the determination to search out 50's/60's photos of the North East. I've now seen just about all the items listen in one photo or another. I suppose its down to what I can get hold of and/or make.
Thank you for the rapid reply's & the thought you have all put in.
Welcome to the friendly forum Murray, great to have you join us, you´ll get all the help you will ever need on here from a very knowledgable bunch of guys and girls.
:welcomesign:
Welcome aboard Murray. I can't add much to all that has been sid but good luck with your modelling.
If you haven't already got them on your list then you could add line side signs for safety warnings, speed limits and so on.
Hello,
Thank you for the warm welcome Caz & Port Perran! Its great to see people taking an interest regardless of period modeled or even where in the globe you are.
Thanks for the reminder Rabs, I've got Warning signs & speed limits under my list of station detailing. But that's another post ;)
Philip (N-Gauge-US) Thank you so much for all the detail. I even have some Atlas curves. The layout track is currently 1st radius Peco inner loop & 2nd radius Peco outer. I've got set track points as part of the curves to lengthen the straights. I could have had slightly wider curves but I'm then not able to fit a station building down the outside or platform wider then 3.5cm.
The state of the layout (which is 70.5cm/2.3ft wide) is thus: The track is pinned down, point motors are all installed & wired up, no scenery, currently doing extensive test turning. I have various GraFar and Dapol steamers going over 1st radius curves & points like clockwork with no issues. Including a Dapol 9F early batch with the original front bogie.
Installing wider radius curves, I feel, would serve 2 purposes. 1, a cosmetic improvement for more realism & 2, to cover my back for future models being produced towards 2nd radius curves.
I'll knock up some plans to aid our discussion.
Murray
Sounds like you are already a good bit of the way there!!!! And always glad to have another steam enthusiast :) I Look forward to seeing your track plan and updates!!!
Quote from: Murray on December 17, 2015, 04:33:47 PM
Hello,
Thank you for the warm welcome Caz & Port Perran! Its great to see people taking an interest regardless of period modeled or even where in the globe you are.
Thanks for the reminder Rabs, I've got Warning signs & speed limits under my list of station detailing. But that's another post ;)
Philip (N-Gauge-US) Thank you so much for all the detail. I even have some Atlas curves. The layout track is currently 1st radius Peco inner loop & 2nd radius Peco outer. I've got set track points as part of the curves to lengthen the straights. I could have had slightly wider curves but I'm then not able to fit a station building down the outside or platform wider then 3.5cm.
The state of the layout (which is 70.5cm/2.3ft wide) is thus: The track is pinned down, point motors are all installed & wired up, no scenery, currently doing extensive test turning. I have various GraFar and Dapol steamers going over 1st radius curves & points like clockwork with no issues. Including a Dapol 9F early batch with the original front bogie.
Installing wider radius curves, I feel, would serve 2 purposes. 1, a cosmetic improvement for more realism & 2, to cover my back for future models being produced towards 2nd radius curves.
I'll knock up some plans to aid our discussion.
Murray
Quote from: Murray on December 16, 2015, 03:13:51 PM
Posting this has given me the determination to search out 50's/60's photos of the North East. I've now seen just about all the items listen in one photo or another.
Yes, I also I try to make a series of 'scenes' around the layout, each based on photos of real sites. Personally, I feel 'less-is-more' in modelling, ie packing stuff in more densely than normally found in real life,
reduces realism. On my own 4'x2' (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=28271.msg310483#msg310483) I'm very cautious when filling up empty space for just that reason.
Mike
Hello Maridunian, Thank you for the advise. I don't plan on including too much for that exact reason. However I realised it can be difficult to add track side details once I had ballasted, so I wanted to plan that out before hand. I will not have every item on that list on the layout, just a couple of the more commonly found items from that period/area.
Here is the current track plan below. I'll have a play around with Peco 2nd & 3rd radius and Atlas 10 inch radius, see what fits. Perhaps I'll switch out the set track points for curved points and that will give the space for the inner loop to have wider radius curves. The strange looking track diagram, bottom right, is my control pannel.
[smg id=33039]
Quote from: Murray on December 19, 2015, 03:57:26 PM
Hello Maridunian, Thank you for the advise. I don't plan on including too much for that exact reason. However I realised it can be difficult to add track side details once I had ballasted, so I wanted to plan that out before hand. I will not have every item on that list on the layout, just a couple of the more commonly found items from that period/area.
Here is the current track plan below. I'll have a play around with Peco 2nd & 3rd radius and Atlas 10 inch radius, see what fits. Perhaps I'll switch out the set track points for curved points and that will give the space for the inner loop to have wider radius curves. The strange looking track diagram, bottom right, is my control pannel.
[smg id=33039]
Looks great! Very ambitious but it seems like you have a good handle on what you're doing :) Thanks for keeping us up to speed!
Thank you Phillip,
Its been a couple years in development with multiple track plans experimented with. This has been the best fit for what I'd like to run.
I'm going to put a post in the 'Layout Planning' section and canvas opinion on weather its worth having Atlas 10 inch radius curves on the inner loop & curved Peco points instead of the set track ones on the outer loop.
Quote from: Murray on December 19, 2015, 05:32:47 PM
Thank you Phillip,
Its been a couple years in development with multiple track plans experimented with. This has been the best fit for what I'd like to run.
I'm going to put a post in the 'Layout Planning' section and canvas opinion on weather its worth having Atlas 10 inch radius curves on the inner loop & curved Peco points instead of the set track ones on the outer loop.
Not many of us use Atlas at all, but since I'm statewide, it's virtually all I use. :D My fleet of tank engines and my Dapol b set like it just fine. I'm hoping to get a tender engine or two for Christmas and I can report on how they do with it but my suspicion and what I have heard is that 10" will cause derailments on larger locos. If you do a 10" loop, it is probably best restricted to tank engines and small diesels :)
*UPDATE* I got some of my Christmas gifts early today and one of the things I received was a GF Peppercorn A2 in LNER Apple Green (appropriately 525 "AH Peppercorn"). Not only does it run very smoothly out of the box but I can confirm that it does beautifully over Atlas 10" radius curves :) The instructions say it is best on 10.5" (second radius) and above but that it will run on first radius, which I can attest to. The only thing worth noting is that it did uncouple (invariably) from my new Dapol GWR Siphon (but not from my B set coaches). This could obviously be solved with a coupling change or with some adhesive or other (bull frog snot is apparently very good, though foully named).
I ended up with quiet a lot of Atlas track. I was just starting out in N gauge and brought any track that came cheap.
That's really interesting to hear! I only intend to Run Small engines on the 9 inch radius inner loop so I wasn't worried about larger locos not running on it. I have a Dapol B17 4-6-0 which goes round the 9 inch curves no problem. All the GraFar locos no problem, including a Pacific.
The only issue I have (not radius related) is with a Dapol A4. The front bogie didn't always go the right direction in the point frog. Fixed it by cutting a bit off the chassis bracket to give the front bogie more freedom to move.
Quote from: Murray on December 20, 2015, 04:23:56 PM
I ended up with quiet a lot of Atlas track. I was just starting out in N gauge and brought any track that came cheap.
That's really interesting to hear! I only intend to Run Small engines on the 9 inch radius inner loop so I wasn't worried about larger locos not running on it. I have a Dapol B17 4-6-0 which goes round the 9 inch curves no problem. All the GraFar locos no problem, including a Pacific.
The only issue I have (not radius related) is with a Dapol A4. The front bogie didn't always go the right direction in the point frog. Fixed it by cutting a bit off the chassis bracket to give the front bogie more freedom to move.
I did the same thing! After I got my starter set, I decided I didn't want to use the EZ track as what I read about the points is abysmal and it's very dear. I went to a local model show and lots of people were selling "used" atlas track (some of it very heavily, lots of it new). I wound up with hundreds of pieces of track (including some switches) for 40$ :)
Good to hear your locos manage the tight curves well! I have been considering eliminating 1st radius from my track plan entirely because I've been nervous about engines jumping.
That a great find! Be thorough with test running second hands points. Ive found some look fine to the naked eye but cause lots of derailments as soon as I replaced them, no issues.
I've been reading some manufactures are starting to suggest a minimum radius on some new models. People have said those models have gone round tighter radii but like you, I don't want to risk it. However, I've only ever really had issues with the Dapol steamers that have a drive shaft from the tender to the boiler, through the cab. It means the whole loco is pretty ridged.