Not sure if it's been posted on here but found this on the other forum, new Farish stuff on the way..
371-035
Class 20 (twin pack) No's 20906 'Georgina' + 20904 'Janis' in Hunsley Barclay / Nomax Chipman weed killing livery
8/9
6PIN
£209.95
373-063
Class 03 shunter No. D2383 in BR green (weathered) livery
5
-
£89.95
373-064
Class 03 shunter No. 03170 in BR blue (weathered)
7
-
£89.95
373-776E
TTA tank wagon in Esso livery No. 5970
6
£15.95
373-779
TTA tank wagon in ICI Methanol livery No. 54858
8
-
£15.95
373-786
Set of TTA wagons in Weed killing train 'Water Only' livery No's 55526 + 55529 + 55530
9
-
£47.95
374-010D
BR Mark 1 SO coach in BR crimson and cream livery No. W3885
4
£28.95
374-012D
BR Mark 1 SO coach in BR maroon livery No. M4780
5
-
£28.95
374-013C
BR Mark 1 SO coach in BR blue and grey livery No. M4784
6/7
-
£28.95
374-015
BR Mark 1 SO coach in BR in InterCity livery No. M4946
8
-
£28.95
374-081A
BR Mark 1 BCK coach in BR crimson and cream livery No. E21050
4
-
£28.95
374-083A
BR Mark 1 BCK coach in BR (SR) green No. S21263
5
-
£28.95
374-087
BR Mark 1 BCK coach in BR InterCity livery No. 21269
8
-
£28.95
374-191
BR Mark 1 BSK coach in BR departmental yellow livery 'Re-railing Equipment' No. ADB977109
7/8
-
£28.95
374-192
BR Mark 1 BSK coach in BR InterCity livery No. M35451
8
£28.95
374-992
BR Mark 1 coach pack in Hunsley Barclay / Nomax Chipman weed killing livery (No's CC99016 + CC99017)
9
-
£59.95
377-059
5 plank wagon with wooden floor in Salt Union, Bromsgrove livery No. 91
3
-
£12.95
377-060
5 plank wagon with wooden floor in A.E.Moody, Sharpeness livery No. 1
3
-
£12.95
377-087
7 plank end door wagon in LMS grey livery No. 351270
8
-
£13.95
377-088
7 plank end door wagon in GWR grey livery No. 06515
3
-
£13.95
377-089
7 3
-
£13.95
377-090
7 plank end door wagon in NE grey livery No. 127916
3
-
£13.95
377-091
7 plank end door wagon in North End, Tonmawr Junction No. 110
3
-plank end door wagon in SR brown livery No. 18166
£13.95
377-097
7 plank wagons (coal trader triple pack) weathered in liveries of Harrisons, London + Elders, Cardiff No. 466 + Eales & Roberts, Long Buckby. No visible running numbers on Harrisons or Eales & Roberts wagons
3
£43.95
cheers, Stu
weedkiller train and IC MK 1s i can here the credit card screaming now :drool:
Nothing on my pre order list :sweat:
Quote from: JBQFC on November 18, 2015, 07:50:56 PM
weedkiller train and IC MK 1s i can here the credit card screaming now :drool:
Don't think your's will be the only one
Over £300 for the full weedkiller set :o
cheers, Stu.
Still no GWR Castle--maybe my piggy bank will get me a Dapol valanced A4 in the new year--assuming of course that they materialize.
Quote from: mk1gtstu on November 18, 2015, 06:16:57 PM
371-035
Class 20 (twin pack) No's 20906 'Georgina' + 20904 'Janis' in Hunsley Barclay / Nomax Chipman weed killing livery
8/9
6PIN
£209.95
373-786
Set of TTA wagons in Weed killing train 'Water Only' livery No's 55526 + 55529 + 55530
9
£47.95
374-992
BR Mark 1 coach pack in Hunsley Barclay / Nomax Chipman weed killing livery (No's CC99016 + CC99017)
9
-
£59.95
These were only announced earlier this year, so that is a surprise with less than 12 months from announcement to (possible) delivery
Equally, annoying there are items from two or three years ago still outstanding...
However, once these arrive it will be interesting to see what (if anything) they announce for next year
looking at my pre order list with this lot apart from the MK2 F they will not be much post 1970 stock to be released
Having bought a pair of A2s from the last shipment, and a loco kit and chassis for the OO layout I'm quite pleased there is nothing there I'm looking for....
Also pleased that this year it is only small hard-to-find its I'm looking for at Warley.
Les
I will be ordering eight 374-013's as soon as they land on the shop shelves. I was surprised at how quickly the MK2a's went (374-710a), I managed to just barely get 6 from a vendor just last week. Hattons sold out and have since removed them from their website so I'm assuming that's it, they are gone. Bacmann shows expected arrival Nov/Dec. Not sure what's happening there but after Hattons sold out I called them and they said they had an order in for 30 more. They never arrived before the item was removed.
These BR blue coaches don't last long before they are gone.
Jamie
I think Farish missed them off the website update because they were still showing as expected in the next 60 days/Due Oct/Nov and went straight to out of stock.
The BR Blue Class 08 is in the same boat today.
Cheers
Mark
Quote from: mk1gtstu on November 18, 2015, 06:16:57 PM374-013C
BR Mark 1 SO coach in BR blue and grey livery No. M4784
6/7
-
£28.95
I too am tempted, but I am still waiting for the version with Commonwealth bogies
With the B1 bogies it is just a little too early for me
According to what's supposed to be released by Farish & Dapol in the next 3 or so months my bank account is going to take a hammering.
The last run of blue/grey MK1's (374-062C) didn't last long at all as did the first run of MK2A's(374-710). It would seem like within 1 month this new run of MK2A's (374-710A)has also been depleted.
Are Farish deliberately making limited runs or are they underestimating how well these are selling ?
Jamie
It's better sense to make less & sell all than make a lot & have money sitting on shelves for a long time ...
Mike,
I agree with that but sold out within a month :confused1: I'm not complaining, I managed to get what I wanted but I'm sure there are many who didn't.
I'm learning that I need to get what I want when it becomes available right at that time because the window of opportunity may be very short.
The other thing is that if I wait hoping they will do another run (no guarantee) and they do, the chances are each coach will cost 4 to 5 pounds more.
Jamie
Quote from: 47033 on November 21, 2015, 03:00:31 PM
Are Farish deliberately making limited runs or are they underestimating how well these are selling ?
They've been doing the former for ages and possibly not researching properly how many of x is needed for a train i.e. the latter.
Take the Mk2 aircons in Virgin livery as an example. You could get the RLO and BSO quite easily but you'd need 5 TSOs to make up a cross country rake and they might've not been made in multiples of 5 of the others. The FO was similarly hard to get hold of.
RevolutioN seem to be taking the right approach in asking for orders before final production commences. However if you order say 20 and after the order book closes you realise you actually need 21...... Your fault not theirs.
Let's not forget that Farish products will be a very small and in the grand scheme of things relatively unimportant part of what the Chinese factory produces.
It is fairly well known that Bachmann do production runs of 1008 for each livery variant of Farish general releases and 504 for special editions. That's whether it is a 16T wagon or a loco.
I suspect the approach and volume produced has little do with them failing to do proper research or not knowing their market, they will have to make a call how much of their cash they tie up on a single product and for how long (as opposed to diversifying amongst a number). 3000 (say) Mk2s of any single variant would take a very long time to sell so from a business perspective better to sell out of what they do make and reorder more - a much more effective use of their working capital than having stock in the warehouse I'd think. Also allows for different running numbers.
RevolutioN are a totally different proposition, not least because they are not commercially driven, take a part (half?) payment up front and full payment before delivery. Thry don't therefore have the same working capital considerations.
Regards
Roy
Roy,
Are you saying that Farish would do a run of 1008 of each coach in each livery ?
Jamie
You just have to look at the shelves of my local model shop to see that it in reality it doesn't make business sense not to research your market.
All the TSOs are snapped up very quickly after they are released. Mk 1 or Mk 2 BSO's, and even many of the FO/FKs sit on the shelves for months - or more often years.
I bought their last remaining Mk2 TSO from the new batch and a BSO from the batch that came out last year - 5 quid cheaper of course...
That's crux of the problem - with 3-5 TSOs or so, roughly, to every BSO, its leaves loads of the latter that no-one wants to buy - so the market if full of surplus coaches that have got nothing to go with.
Cheers
Paul
Quote from: 47033 on November 21, 2015, 05:34:48 PM
Roy,
Are you saying that Farish would do a run of 1008 of each coach in each livery ?
Jamie
Hi Jamie
Yes, as I understand it that is the case.
Regards
Roy
Roy,
If that's the case then that is simply ridiculous.
Most trains would have had at least 4 or 5 times as many second class coaches as first class, brake coaches or buffets. So why make the same amount of each......
No wonder all the second class coaches sell out in a month and the rest sit on the shelves for ages. If that in fact is true, 1008 of each then that's plain crazy.
Jamie
Quote from: 47033 on November 22, 2015, 04:27:26 AM
Roy,
If that's the case then that is simply ridiculous.
Most trains would have had at least 4 or 5 times as many second class coaches as first class, brake coaches or buffets. So why make the same amount of each......
No wonder all the second class coaches sell out in a month and the rest sit on the shelves for ages. If that in fact is true, 1008 of each then that's plain crazy.
Jamie
Hi Jamie
I suspect it may be to do to do with production slots and cashflow. There is only limited capacity in the factory and they need to produce the whole range of coaches and other items.
Then they have to decide how much cash they tie up in each one. Don't forget your working capital works more effectively for you the more quickly and frequently you turn your stock over and make a profit on that stock.
Regards
Roy
Quote from: Roy L S on November 22, 2015, 10:26:55 AM
Don't forget your working capital works more effectively for you the more quickly and frequently you turn your stock over and make a profit on that stock.
Surely that's what Jamie is saying, Roy.
Due to the composition of a rake there is far more demand for the 2nd class coaches and therefore the 1st class versions, having been produced in the same batch number, will sit on the shelves and not help working capital at all? To me, it only helps those who want the 1st class stuff as they are likely to be heavily discounted to shift them :hmmm:
Mick,
Who actually owns them when they're on the shelf, hmmm ?
It's not GraFar ...
I deliberately didn't mention whose working capital for that very reason, Mike.
I have no idea of retailers trading terms with Farish, but maybe some smaller shops are on a sale or return basis :dunce:
Indeed, whose cash is a very fair point.
By the look of stocks at Barwell at least some is Bachmann's. They would of course argue (quite fairly) that over time re-runs of coach batches will favour those more common ones and with the benefit of a different running number each time. BUT there will be a wait while they fit in further production around all the other demands of production time. Those less common ones like Brakes and RMBs will sell at a slower rate to complement the subsequent releases. I feel quite sure all of this will be factored in to Bachmann's strategic planning.
At a purely selfish level (if you can afford to) the best strategy is clearly to buy what you "need" while they are available. Of course you may pay more, but then that's just demand and supply in a nutshell!
Roy
Hello all,
When it comes to model trains, no factories will produce less than a thousand items to my knowledge.
And if a model is a new tooling, there is a need usually to increase that minimum run to about 3000.
This is if you want to factor in Chinese factory profit, UK manufacturer profit and UK retailer profit on top of the actual cost of raw materials, packaging, assembly and shipping.
Profit is usually calculated by doubling, so if the actual cost is X, Chinese factory price is 2X, UK manufacturer wholesale price is 4X and UK retail price is 8X. And remember to include VAT, so the actual RRP including tax is 1.2 x 8X = 9.6X.
In short, if you pay full RRP on a model here in the UK then the chances are that's nearly ten times what it actually cost to make it.
Of course some retailers will take a hit on the mark-up in the hope of making up the shortfall in profit by selling in quantity, so may be selling at 6X or 7X (though they still have to add VAT.)
And it's easy to go out of business if you undersell since you can very quickly run into a vicious circle of low cash-flow leaving you unable to afford to stock the latest models, meaning customers quickly start going elsewhere when they know they only have a limited time to find a particular item.
When Farish produce a new model like the Mk2As then some parts - bogies, underframes, wheels, couplers, possibly roofs, can be shared with just the bodyshells, interiors and glazing unique to individual vehicles.
So they have to produce at least 1008 of each sub-type. Subsequently they can go on to produce 504 of a particular vehicle that's selling well (TSO say) but they would be unlikely to produce more than the minimum in a first run in case the model proves to be a poor seller.
Even when they know a model has sold well, any future production still has to compete with other models for a production slot.
And on top of that a lack of TSOs will also probably lead to some customers buying, instead, poorer selling FKs or BSOs (for s a significant, and no less important, sector of the market a coach is just a coach) so they are helping their retailers by holding off production of further TSOs.
This is somewhat oversimplified but gives a general picture.
cheers
Ben A.
Thank you for that explanantion Ben, it certainly gives me an insight into what else is involved in the process.
I still can't help thinking something is not quite right when the TSO's sell out within a month of arriving in the UK, for the second time. I was just lucky enough to get 2 rakes on the first batch (374-710) and couldn't believe they ran out so quick. I was even more surprised with this second batch selling out so quick. I hear what Ben said about competing for scheduling with other models at the factory but these are a HOT seller, a double run of 1008 or treble even would probably still sell out in a very reasonable time frame. Who knows, I don't get to see the big picture. A retailer I use frequently had only 3 left (I needed 6) so I called them and they said they had another 30 on order with Farish. Unfortunately Farish hadn't updated their website (shame on you Farish) and they were still showing due NOV/DEC.
Something just wasn't sitting right with me so I checked the retailers website daily to find a week later the product had been removed. I called them and was told Farish had sold out and no more were available from them. Panic set in as I tried to find another retailer with 6 in stock. I could have found 6 from multiple vendors easily but with shipping to the US that wasn't economically feasable. I did manage to find a vendor, thankfully, so I have 6 of them (plus 2 FK's) winging their way across the Atlantic as I type.
The main lesson I've learned here is that with any MK1/MK2 second class coaches that are released I need to buy exactly what I want/need right away. The first and 1/2 brake coaches can wait, the BG's though seem to sell like hotcakes too (probably because they help make up parcel train rakes or can go with any MK1, 2 or certain Mk3 rakes). I still see no expected date for the release of the MK2f but maybe late next year might allow my bank balance to recover. You can bet I've got a pre-order in for 12 of those Mk2f TSO's already.
Jamie
More than a long way out Ben.
Factories will make as many as you want in general.
I've known it as low as 25 items for a brand new model.
However, this isn't economical to most.
Yes the Chinese like nice big runs, but in my past life that was as low as 200 models new from tooling.
My J94 special commissions are 200 per deco.
And deco samples can and will be supplied for decoration changed models, but it's up to the commissioning agent to ask for them or it will be usually done by photograph to save money (unless the bodies are suitably marked it will cost shipping, model cost and VAT too)
Hi Dave,
You defintely know more about this than me plus you're used to dealing with the Chinese factories while my contacts have almost always been second hand.
My experience has always been that there is an expectation of a minimum order of at least 1000.
If that figure is wrong then yes, that could be a real boon to a project such as this.
cheers
Ben A.
Apparently the new Mk1 coaches in Intercity livery went on sale yesterday at Hattons, I just bought a BCK coach and the last SO they had on stock :o They only have 2 BCK's left on stock. Looks like I missed out there, didn't realise they had arrived, hopefully there will be more in soon.
cheers, Stu.
Glad I noticed this thread as I have ordered 3 blue/grey SO mk1s from Hattons. Also after a search I have tracked down some Blue/grey BGs and got two from Bure Valley models at £20.83 each! Loads of really good prices on their site. No connection apart from being a pleasantly surprised customer.
Quote from: Eddie Reffin on December 11, 2015, 11:52:58 AM
Glad I noticed this thread as I have ordered 3 blue/grey SO mk1s from Hattons. Also after a search I have tracked down some Blue/grey BGs and got two from Bure Valley models at £20.83 each! Loads of really good prices on their site. No connection apart from being a pleasantly surprised customer.
Thank you! Just had a look on their website & they have some Mk1 SO coaches in Intercity livery on stock! :thumbsup:
cheers, Stu.
Quote from: Arrachogaidh on December 11, 2015, 01:44:24 PM
Quote from: Ben A on November 22, 2015, 04:11:54 PM
My experience has always been that there is an expectation of a minimum order of at least 1000.
So that would help the case for the Class 21/29 I hope?
I think that we are talking a little at cross purposes here - both Ben and Dave are correct for different reasons. Dave is correct that you can commission in theory as low a number as you want, but in practice most of the factories don't want to do small runs (less than 1000 as Ben says).
The killer is not actually the production run number but the tooling costs and what that cost will be amortised over. If you are doing something potentially risky then you've either got to split the tooling cost across the first (and possibly only) run or be prepared to sink cash into tooling for the long term. If you split the tooling cost only over one run then obviously the smaller the production run the higher the unit costs and therefore the retail cost of each model.
As someone said to me when asked the minimum order number - one but it will cost you the best part of 100k (for a loco) and the next 999 will be free to 100.
So yes smaller runs are possible but there is a cost. You can reasonably estimate that a halving of production run would add 66% on to the retail price (if I did my back of a fag packet sums correctly). So then it becomes a question of how much would people be prepared to pay?
Cheers, Mike
Quote from: Arrachogaidh on December 12, 2015, 01:42:59 AM
Quote from: red_death on December 11, 2015, 02:03:09 PM
If you split the tooling cost only over one run then obviously the smaller the production run the higher the unit costs and therefore the retail cost of each model.
So yes smaller runs are possible but there is a cost. You can reasonably estimate that a halving of production run would add 66% on to the retail price (if I did my back of a fag packet sums correctly). So then it becomes a question of how much would people be prepared to pay?
Cheers, Mike
Perhaps it may be a cost worth paying if no other option of obtaining a Class 21/29 exists in N Gauge..............
Unfortunately I'd have to count myself out - I've registered an interest on a Rule 1 basis and would be prepared to pay something in the same ballpark as RRP for a commercial RTR loco, but if we're suddenly talking over 200 quid for a single locomotive then nope, just can't justify it.
Just a quick update to say that the BGs arrived this morning. 24hrs from Norwich to Inverness at this time of year. Fantastic service.
INTER-CITY SO and BCK and weed killer tanks arrived today all great models
got the weed killer coaches and class 20's today great models but the roof gry on the 20's is to dark
now after a bit more research i have found some pics with the dark grey roof
According to their website today, Farish have had delivery within the last thirty days of just about everything current in the range!
Martyn
Quote from: martyn on March 07, 2016, 08:58:10 PM
According to their website today, Farish have had delivery within the last thirty days of just about everything current in the range!
Martyn
Where on their website?
Thanks,
John P
John,
Quote from: jpendle on March 07, 2016, 09:52:31 PM
Where on their website?
Thanks,
John P
See:
http://www.bachmann.co.uk/new_arrivals.php?prod_selected=1 (http://www.bachmann.co.uk/new_arrivals.php?prod_selected=1)
or go to:
http://www.bachmann.co.uk/ (http://www.bachmann.co.uk/)
then 'Latest Arrivals' then 'N Scale Products'
Regards,
Neil
It is on the 'latest arrivals' page of Bachmann's website;
http://bachmann.co.uk/new_arrivals.php?prod_selected=1 (http://bachmann.co.uk/new_arrivals.php?prod_selected=1)
Martyn
Well.. Call me cynical.. but that seems like a good way to increase the RRP on every item that Bachmann have in their warehouse. Which means that models produced at last years prices are now going to be sold at a higher price.
Cheers
Mark
I'm quite sure Farish wouldn't do that to their loyal and long suffering followers, Mark :angel:
What's that oinker doing hovering above my garage? :goggleeyes: