N Gauge Forum

General Category => N Gauge Discussion => Topic started by: railsquid on October 09, 2015, 05:03:31 AM

Title: Oldest loco represented in N gauge?
Post by: railsquid on October 09, 2015, 05:03:31 AM
Someone asked this on the Facebook group, but as Facebook is a very empheral medium I thought I'd ask it here as it intrigued me - what's the oldest prototype represented by a commercially available N gauge model (RTR and/or kit)?
Title: Re: Oldest loco represented in N gauge?
Post by: Bealman on October 09, 2015, 05:44:15 AM
Good question... I fondly remember the OO Rocket that Triang introduced in the 1960s, and the Airfix kit. Bits of the latter still exist on my layout today!

However in N gauge, dunno. I suspect it may be a Continental model by Arnold, or Fleischmann or the like.
Title: Re: Oldest loco represented in N gauge?
Post by: railsquid on October 09, 2015, 05:57:39 AM
Hmm, I'd be interested in the oldest British outline model as well, even if it's not the oldest globally.
Title: Re: Oldest loco represented in N gauge?
Post by: Bealman on October 09, 2015, 06:40:45 AM
Maybe that "Toby" kit that is currently available? Almost makes me think about dabbling in kits....

Probably not.
Title: Re: Oldest loco represented in N gauge?
Post by: gc4946 on October 09, 2015, 06:54:24 AM
Possibly Minitrix's Der Adler boxed train pack.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MINITRIX-N-GAUGE-LIMITED-EDITION-DER-ADLER-SET-/131051237714 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MINITRIX-N-GAUGE-LIMITED-EDITION-DER-ADLER-SET-/131051237714)

Der Adler was built in 1835 for the Nürnberg-Fürth railway.

Title: Re: Oldest loco represented in N gauge?
Post by: msr on October 09, 2015, 08:22:58 AM
As far as UK steam locos are concerned I suspect the oldest protoypes for N gauge models are:

Royal Hampshire pewter model of Rocket, constructed 1829
Dapol LB&SCR A1 Class Terrier, constructed 1872
Del Prado Highland Duke F Class, constructed 1874
Union Mills Midland Rly Johnson 0-6-0, constructed 1875

Title: Re: Oldest loco represented in N gauge?
Post by: Dorsetmike on October 09, 2015, 10:41:01 AM
Dapol Terrier of 1872 would get my vote, for a tender loco the Union Mills  Ex LSWR 0395 class 0-6--0 of 1881 is probablya runner up after the Midland Johnson 0-6-0. The Dean goods possibly comes 3rd at 1883 (I'm not sure of the chronology of the other UM offerings)
Title: Re: Oldest loco represented in N gauge?
Post by: scotsoft on October 09, 2015, 11:06:53 AM
Quote from: Arrachogaidh on October 09, 2015, 09:49:57 AM

Designed and built in 1835 by the British railway pioneers George and Robert Stephenson in the English town of Newcastle.

I think you will find it was built in the British City of Newcastle.
Title: Re: Oldest loco represented in N gauge?
Post by: Yet_Another on October 09, 2015, 12:33:13 PM
Quote from: scotsoft on October 09, 2015, 11:06:53 AM
Quote from: Arrachogaidh on October 09, 2015, 09:49:57 AM

Designed and built in 1835 by the British railway pioneers George and Robert Stephenson in the English town of Newcastle.

I think you will find it was built in the British City of Newcastle.
Actually, Newcastle didn't become a city until 50 years or so after 1835, and at that time the word English was used to refer to anything from this island.
Title: Re: Oldest loco represented in N gauge?
Post by: Nigel Cliffe on October 12, 2015, 03:25:25 PM
Quote from: msr on October 09, 2015, 08:22:58 AM
As far as UK steam locos are concerned I suspect the oldest protoypes for N gauge models are:

Royal Hampshire pewter model of Rocket, constructed 1829
Dapol LB&SCR A1 Class Terrier, constructed 1872
Del Prado Highland Duke F Class, constructed 1874
Union Mills Midland Rly Johnson 0-6-0, constructed 1875

Plus a sideways example - Vulcan Foundry 2-4-0T of 1870, exported to Japan around 1880, now preserved in Japan.  And (was?) available from MicroAce in N.   In common with many Japanese models, the scale is adjusted so the track gauge is about right.  The scale of the model is around 1:120 (so oversize compared to 1:148), which works for 3ft6in gauge running on N (9mm) track.   The model is a decent runner, as are most Japanese models.


- Nigel
Title: Re: Oldest loco represented in N gauge?
Post by: Jon898 on October 12, 2015, 03:36:04 PM
In US outline there is the 4-4-0 American from 1875.  Pretty much ubiquitous in cowboy and US Civil War films.  http://www.spookshow.net/loco/atlas440.html (http://www.spookshow.net/loco/atlas440.html)
Title: Re: Oldest loco represented in N gauge?
Post by: railsquid on October 12, 2015, 03:54:37 PM
Quote from: Nigel Cliffe on October 12, 2015, 03:25:25 PM
Quote from: msr on October 09, 2015, 08:22:58 AM
As far as UK steam locos are concerned I suspect the oldest protoypes for N gauge models are:

Royal Hampshire pewter model of Rocket, constructed 1829
Dapol LB&SCR A1 Class Terrier, constructed 1872
Del Prado Highland Duke F Class, constructed 1874
Union Mills Midland Rly Johnson 0-6-0, constructed 1875

Plus a sideways example - Vulcan Foundry 2-4-0T of 1870, exported to Japan around 1880, now preserved in Japan.  And (was?) available from MicroAce in N.   In common with many Japanese models, the scale is adjusted so the track gauge is about right.  The scale of the model is around 1:120 (so oversize compared to 1:148), which works for 3ft6in gauge running on N (9mm) track.   The model is a decent runner, as are most Japanese models.

Hmm, I must keep a look-out for that one.

However: "In common with many Japanese models" -> "In common with many early Japanese models" would be more correcter.
Title: Re: Oldest loco represented in N gauge?
Post by: PostModN66 on October 12, 2015, 07:37:31 PM
Quote from: gc4946 on October 09, 2015, 06:54:24 AM
Possibly Minitrix's Der Adler boxed train pack.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MINITRIX-N-GAUGE-LIMITED-EDITION-DER-ADLER-SET-/131051237714 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MINITRIX-N-GAUGE-LIMITED-EDITION-DER-ADLER-SET-/131051237714)

Der Adler was built in 1835 for the Nürnberg-Fürth railway.

http://youtu.be/ucAxCSgujew (http://youtu.be/ucAxCSgujew)

Cheers  Jon   :)
Title: Re: Oldest loco represented in N gauge?
Post by: Railwaygun on October 12, 2015, 11:36:26 PM
The Del Prado version is cheaper!
Title: Re: Oldest loco represented in N gauge?
Post by: MikeDunn on October 13, 2015, 10:21:38 AM
As has already been pointed out ...  ::)
Title: Re: Oldest loco represented in N gauge?
Post by: Bealman on October 13, 2015, 10:38:45 AM
All drifting off topic and time for closing down..... unless, of course.... we answer the question which is bugging me.....

The OLDEST commercial  N gauge model.... I'll put me money on Arnold.
Title: Re: Oldest loco represented in N gauge?
Post by: msr on October 13, 2015, 11:11:11 AM
Quote from: Bealman on October 13, 2015, 10:38:45 AM
All drifting off topic and time for closing down..... unless, of course.... we answer the question which is bugging me.....

The OLDEST commercial  N gauge model.... I'll put me money on Arnold.

If you are thinking of the model itself rather than the prototype being modelled then the accolade must surely go to the Bing set dating from 1912, and therefore half a century before Arnold. One version comprised a "George The Fifth" 4-4-0 locomotive and three-axle tender, in lined green, accompanied by three four-axle passenger coaches - two 1st/2nd/3rd in lined blue and red and one LNWR 1st/3rd in chocolate and cream, in a card box. One came up at Christie's in 2006 and sold for about £300.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/15/thumb_30372.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=30372)

Another version comprised the same loco in LNWR black livery with three coaches and a brake van all in lined plum & spilt milk livery, contained in a red Bing card box. This photo is from the LNWR set at the Brighton Toy Museum which seems to have an extra brake van. One came up on eBay in 2012 and sold for a similar sum as the one auctioned at Christie's.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/15/thumb_30371.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=30371)

The model has an approximately nine millimetre wheelbase but was not designed to run on rails.
Title: Re: Oldest loco represented in N gauge?
Post by: PostModN66 on October 13, 2015, 11:15:45 AM
Quote from: maridunian on October 13, 2015, 10:59:38 AM
Quote from: gc4946 on October 09, 2015, 06:54:24 AM
Possibly Minitrix's Der Adler boxed train pack.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MINITRIX-N-GAUGE-LIMITED-EDITION-DER-ADLER-SET-/131051237714 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MINITRIX-N-GAUGE-LIMITED-EDITION-DER-ADLER-SET-/131051237714)

Der Adler was built in 1835 for the Nürnberg-Fürth railway.

Der Adler was of course built in Newcastle, and "By 1838 the type had become the standard passenger design by Robert Stephenson and Company" - from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patentee_locomotive (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patentee_locomotive)

Mike

One of them, the Harvey Combe ,was used in the construction of the London to Birmingham.   About halfway down this link there is an engraving of it in Berkhamsted, a few yards from where I live.

http://gerald-massey.org.uk/Railway/c12_locomotive_(II).htm (http://gerald-massey.org.uk/Railway/c12_locomotive_(II).htm)

Cheers  Jon  :)
Title: Re: Oldest loco represented in N gauge?
Post by: Agrippa on October 13, 2015, 12:15:10 PM
Interesting illustration, were the earliest passenger coaches just horsedrawn stagecoaches
put onto a rail chassis?
Title: Re: Oldest loco represented in N gauge?
Post by: keithfre on October 13, 2015, 01:17:00 PM
Quote from: Agrippa on October 13, 2015, 12:15:10 PM
Interesting illustration, were the earliest passenger coaches just horsedrawn stagecoaches
put onto a rail chassis?
Yes, some were. The design of the first true passenger coaches also owed a lot to horsedrawn carriages.
Title: Re: Oldest loco represented in N gauge?
Post by: maridunian on October 13, 2015, 03:27:16 PM
Quote from: keithfre on October 13, 2015, 01:17:00 PM
Quote from: Agrippa on October 13, 2015, 12:15:10 PM
Interesting illustration, were the earliest passenger coaches just horsedrawn stagecoaches
put onto a rail chassis?
Yes, some were. The design of the first true passenger coaches also owed a lot to horsedrawn carriages.

This is why we often speak of carriages (and wagons) to this very day and the 4' 81/2" gauge also derives from horse-drawn times. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_gauge

Mike